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Young non-traditional college student, where to next?
Muse Among Men
Suburban Bunny Princess?Its time for a new shtick Registered User regular
Suburban Bunny Princess?Its time for a new shtick Registered User regular
Greetings HA, I think this can be best summarized as CALIFORNIA :rotate:
I actually made a thread here about college concerns two years ago, I was pretty darn worried about going to college. UPDATE: it did not go well. I have dropped out of my 4-year, started community college(s), and am looking to transfer to my 4th and final school. But how? Lets start with boatloads of context:
I was good, if not great student in high school that wrote some kick-butt entrance essays that got me accepted into a bunch of great state colleges I wasn't really enthusiastic about. I went to a poor, kind of crappy high school with lackluster college prep because so few students graduated to begin with (my parents were immigrants who never went past high school, I'm the first in my family to go past HS). I was pretty stressed out and depressed at the time, and did not want to want to go to any of them right away. I only applied because they were free. I wanted to take a year off to work, save up some money, and get a better idea of what I would be doing in college, but my family and teachers pressured me to head straight into college. I decided to go to the one with the best financial aid package since I wasn't really keen on any of them (seriously, the fin-aid offers at the other state schools were pretty bad). I started college with no enthusiasm, more, 'Okay, this is new, gotta do what I gotta do'.
The school itself was great. The campus and classes were great, the people were mostly great. It really wasn't for me though and I wasn't very happy. I fell ill very soon within getting there and that didn't really help. I had my issues with the area and general culture of the campus, but I was mostly preoccupied with worries about money and academics. I did pretty well actually, my GPA isn't as high as I'd want, but having had so little cushion of classes a C really drags down your gpa. Even though I had become very efficient with my money and was doing mostly well in my classes I did not feel engaged and was getting more depressed. By the end of the year I had taken 14 different classes (quarter system!) and I still had no idea what I would be doing if I were to stay there. I had thought I would be okay with a very academic teaching approach but I no longer feel that way. I was worried about developing job skills, and felt that a more skills-oriented education would be better for me anyway. I didn't feel compelled to major in anything I'd taken and I had to declare a major by the end of the first quarter of the following year. I doubted that I'd find something I liked within that span of time. I had started to find other subject areas that I would be interested in by talking to forumers here about their jobs. . . and none were offered at the college. It was suggested I could take related majors and supplement with internships, the majority of which were located in my hometown of LA. I had friends who had remained behind in not so stellar colleges getting those same internships during the school year because they simply lived close by enough. After talking with many counselors, it was decided that the best option would be for me to transfer. I decided to transfer kind of late into the year but everything else started coalescing earlyish in the year and that probably did not help me feel any better.
And so I dropped out and am now attending community college. I didn't want to have to spend more money for another year at a school just to leave, and take seats away from students that really wanted to be there.
The classes at CC are great! The professors are wonderful. Everything else is kind of terrible. I did not realize how badly the CCs were doing (no $$$) and of course they did not say they were in such bad shape when I talked to them over the phone. And even though I kept up with the news in regards in California's higher education woes there is only so much to be gleamed from text as compared to experiencing it firsthand. For one: they couldn't afford to have any counselors available during the summer so I had no guidance in selecting my fall classes. The CC nearest my home is one of the biggest and most crowded in LA so I could not get any classes save for one, so I had to sign up for classes elsewhere too. They are great, they are just an hour's commute away. On Wednesdays when I have two classes hours apart I am on the bus a total of 4 hours. Because I'd only taken one class with them prior in highschool I was given lowest priority for classes, even though I'd had stacks of credits from my old 4-year. The administration is a mess. Their phone system doesnt work, you dont know if they will pick up in the first place, and if they do, can they even transfer you to the right department, and if they can, will there be anyone to pick up, and if not, can you at least leave a message? The answer is no a depressing number of times. The most well run thing there is their health clinic, thank God. I am additionally frustrated by their seemingly low expectations and how they just dont seem to know what to do with me, they try so hard to get their students out of there, why would someone voluntarily leave their 4-year? I am stuck here for 2 years,
. And then a bunch more things happened with California (:rotate:) that just made student's lives harder (like certain schools only accepting transfers from certain counties, some schools not accepting transfers during traditional windows of time at all, some schools requiring you transfer in with an associates etc). You can't plan for that. They just sort of spring the news on you because they haven't been forecasting these changes ahead of time.
By this point I at least think I have a better idea of what my educational goals are. The classes I've taken here have convinced me that a more skills-oriented approach is better for me, and hav reminded me of how much I like art, my 4-year didn't offer these kinds of classes and I was discouraged from pursuing them in my latter years of high school so I could focus on AP classes and concurrent enrollment at the CC. I like commercial art best, and did get to take multiple summer classes in highschool (to keep me out of the house). I had fun and made some neat stuff and made terrible, terrible font choices and my teacher even recommended I consider pursuing it further, but could not continue taking the classes during the normal school year due to scheduling conflict. Graphic design, etc. Incidentally the non-art things I like are all related (like advertising, I like my advertising course quite a bit). And with it comes the unfortunate realization that most art programs have very different set of general eds than I have been taking. Hahaha. And transferring into an art program is an entirely different kettle of fish as compared to what I had been told. At the very least, my plan is to transfer someplace I can afford without too many loans and that will take enough of my credits that I can graduate in a total of six years (since I began attending my first 4-year). Preferably someplace urban. I don't really care about campus quality or quality of student life anymore at this point, I care more about getting out with a degree/few loans more than having a good time. I'd probably need to apply in 2013 anyway because I'd have to put together a portfolio. I did start prepping one in high school but stopped midway during junior year when I started doing badly in some of my classes. I don't think I remember how to use a charcoal stick anymore anyway.
So, what should I doing right now? Should I try to get into an art program someplace? Is that just a terrible idea that I should get rid of because it is silly? If I don't that, what else should I go with? Should I just return to my old university and get any ol' degree I can finish quickly/easily so I can at least have a degree? If trying to worm into a good art program is still feasible, what is a good way to go about it and find which one has a good program given that I'm not really a traditional student anymore? I wouldn't be much older than many of the students (and I look pretty young) but are there things I should foresee in regards to that? Is California's education system uniquely screwed up in a way I haven't mentioned that I should know about? Are they tearing down all the CSUs and selling off the scrap and I'm just not aware of this pertinent info?
Since you are maybe wondering:
I am not feeling so sick anymore, I don't think about how tired I might get from walking a block or two will make me any longer. I was feeling pretty darn great when I got back because I started feeling healthier after a few weeks. It was not psychosomatic, I had a whole medical team with me at my old school (they were great).
I am seeing a therapist for my depression here.
I am working part time
I am asking you guys (and my old counselor from the past year) for advice because I'm not satisfied with the response I've gotten from the counselors available. The best help I have gotten thus far was from my old counselor at the 4-year and the forums here.
I actually made a thread here about college concerns two years ago, I was pretty darn worried about going to college. UPDATE: it did not go well. I have dropped out of my 4-year, started community college(s), and am looking to transfer to my 4th and final school. But how? Lets start with boatloads of context:
I was good, if not great student in high school that wrote some kick-butt entrance essays that got me accepted into a bunch of great state colleges I wasn't really enthusiastic about. I went to a poor, kind of crappy high school with lackluster college prep because so few students graduated to begin with (my parents were immigrants who never went past high school, I'm the first in my family to go past HS). I was pretty stressed out and depressed at the time, and did not want to want to go to any of them right away. I only applied because they were free. I wanted to take a year off to work, save up some money, and get a better idea of what I would be doing in college, but my family and teachers pressured me to head straight into college. I decided to go to the one with the best financial aid package since I wasn't really keen on any of them (seriously, the fin-aid offers at the other state schools were pretty bad). I started college with no enthusiasm, more, 'Okay, this is new, gotta do what I gotta do'.
The school itself was great. The campus and classes were great, the people were mostly great. It really wasn't for me though and I wasn't very happy. I fell ill very soon within getting there and that didn't really help. I had my issues with the area and general culture of the campus, but I was mostly preoccupied with worries about money and academics. I did pretty well actually, my GPA isn't as high as I'd want, but having had so little cushion of classes a C really drags down your gpa. Even though I had become very efficient with my money and was doing mostly well in my classes I did not feel engaged and was getting more depressed. By the end of the year I had taken 14 different classes (quarter system!) and I still had no idea what I would be doing if I were to stay there. I had thought I would be okay with a very academic teaching approach but I no longer feel that way. I was worried about developing job skills, and felt that a more skills-oriented education would be better for me anyway. I didn't feel compelled to major in anything I'd taken and I had to declare a major by the end of the first quarter of the following year. I doubted that I'd find something I liked within that span of time. I had started to find other subject areas that I would be interested in by talking to forumers here about their jobs. . . and none were offered at the college. It was suggested I could take related majors and supplement with internships, the majority of which were located in my hometown of LA. I had friends who had remained behind in not so stellar colleges getting those same internships during the school year because they simply lived close by enough. After talking with many counselors, it was decided that the best option would be for me to transfer. I decided to transfer kind of late into the year but everything else started coalescing earlyish in the year and that probably did not help me feel any better.
And so I dropped out and am now attending community college. I didn't want to have to spend more money for another year at a school just to leave, and take seats away from students that really wanted to be there.
The classes at CC are great! The professors are wonderful. Everything else is kind of terrible. I did not realize how badly the CCs were doing (no $$$) and of course they did not say they were in such bad shape when I talked to them over the phone. And even though I kept up with the news in regards in California's higher education woes there is only so much to be gleamed from text as compared to experiencing it firsthand. For one: they couldn't afford to have any counselors available during the summer so I had no guidance in selecting my fall classes. The CC nearest my home is one of the biggest and most crowded in LA so I could not get any classes save for one, so I had to sign up for classes elsewhere too. They are great, they are just an hour's commute away. On Wednesdays when I have two classes hours apart I am on the bus a total of 4 hours. Because I'd only taken one class with them prior in highschool I was given lowest priority for classes, even though I'd had stacks of credits from my old 4-year. The administration is a mess. Their phone system doesnt work, you dont know if they will pick up in the first place, and if they do, can they even transfer you to the right department, and if they can, will there be anyone to pick up, and if not, can you at least leave a message? The answer is no a depressing number of times. The most well run thing there is their health clinic, thank God. I am additionally frustrated by their seemingly low expectations and how they just dont seem to know what to do with me, they try so hard to get their students out of there, why would someone voluntarily leave their 4-year? I am stuck here for 2 years,
. And then a bunch more things happened with California (:rotate:) that just made student's lives harder (like certain schools only accepting transfers from certain counties, some schools not accepting transfers during traditional windows of time at all, some schools requiring you transfer in with an associates etc). You can't plan for that. They just sort of spring the news on you because they haven't been forecasting these changes ahead of time.By this point I at least think I have a better idea of what my educational goals are. The classes I've taken here have convinced me that a more skills-oriented approach is better for me, and hav reminded me of how much I like art, my 4-year didn't offer these kinds of classes and I was discouraged from pursuing them in my latter years of high school so I could focus on AP classes and concurrent enrollment at the CC. I like commercial art best, and did get to take multiple summer classes in highschool (to keep me out of the house). I had fun and made some neat stuff and made terrible, terrible font choices and my teacher even recommended I consider pursuing it further, but could not continue taking the classes during the normal school year due to scheduling conflict. Graphic design, etc. Incidentally the non-art things I like are all related (like advertising, I like my advertising course quite a bit). And with it comes the unfortunate realization that most art programs have very different set of general eds than I have been taking. Hahaha. And transferring into an art program is an entirely different kettle of fish as compared to what I had been told. At the very least, my plan is to transfer someplace I can afford without too many loans and that will take enough of my credits that I can graduate in a total of six years (since I began attending my first 4-year). Preferably someplace urban. I don't really care about campus quality or quality of student life anymore at this point, I care more about getting out with a degree/few loans more than having a good time. I'd probably need to apply in 2013 anyway because I'd have to put together a portfolio. I did start prepping one in high school but stopped midway during junior year when I started doing badly in some of my classes. I don't think I remember how to use a charcoal stick anymore anyway.
So, what should I doing right now? Should I try to get into an art program someplace? Is that just a terrible idea that I should get rid of because it is silly? If I don't that, what else should I go with? Should I just return to my old university and get any ol' degree I can finish quickly/easily so I can at least have a degree? If trying to worm into a good art program is still feasible, what is a good way to go about it and find which one has a good program given that I'm not really a traditional student anymore? I wouldn't be much older than many of the students (and I look pretty young) but are there things I should foresee in regards to that? Is California's education system uniquely screwed up in a way I haven't mentioned that I should know about? Are they tearing down all the CSUs and selling off the scrap and I'm just not aware of this pertinent info?
Since you are maybe wondering:
I am not feeling so sick anymore, I don't think about how tired I might get from walking a block or two will make me any longer. I was feeling pretty darn great when I got back because I started feeling healthier after a few weeks. It was not psychosomatic, I had a whole medical team with me at my old school (they were great).
I am seeing a therapist for my depression here.
I am working part time
I am asking you guys (and my old counselor from the past year) for advice because I'm not satisfied with the response I've gotten from the counselors available. The best help I have gotten thus far was from my old counselor at the 4-year and the forums here.
Muse Among Men on
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You're way over thinking things. You seem too all over the place at this point to settle on one thing. Take some time off. Work. Figure your shit out and THEN start looking at going back to school. There's absolutely no rush and you really don't sound ready for it or even remotely in the right frame of mind for making a serious decision.
Oh, and you're not a "non-traditional" student. If you use that term the way you are you're just going to confuse people. It generally refers to age or going VERY part time.
They can really open doors, but be careful; there are some less than scrupulous schools out there for that sort of thing. Always go to the certifying body and see what exactly they require.
I have to stay in school at least part time to hold off the loans I have already accumulated. I suppose I could save up enough to pay them all off so then I can work full time but it may be a while. I am living at home rent free on the condition I stay in school. If I stop attending I get kicked out. I dont actually get payed at my job just yet (I just started, the employment process was very lengthy) so it will be a while before I could save up enough to support myself given the cost of living and all the other expenses associated with moving out. The only way I can move out is for school, so I have to stay in school for pragmatic reasons for the time being. I did drop out with the intent of getting my shit together someplace cheap, and I dont really care about graduating within 4 years anymore. I say 6 because I just don't know if I would have the energy or motivation to work on a degree if it takes much longer or once I've been out of education for enough time. I cant apply anyplace until 2013 anyway, meaning I can't even restart real school until 2014. Hopefully that is enough time. If I am overthinking it I suppose that is because I genuinely think I make better decisions that way. And I guess if it seems like I am rushing, it is because I am not very confident about the future of California's higher education system, which has been deteriorating since some years ago and it hasn't been getting any better. There are some ballot measures going out this November that could really alleviate the colleges but since it means raising sales tax and taxes on the wealthier Californian's who probably aren't too affected by it all, I am not exactly confident that the community colleges wont suffer even more awful cuts. I suppose I am rushing, trying to outrun their worsening situation because you just don't know. What if I wait and it is a million times worse by the time I've decided I am ready to go back?
I used the term nontraditional because that was what the counselors were referring me as, so I dunno.
Ceres:
I wouldn't mind getting a technical certification, my worries are finding the places that offer the classes that aren't already flooded with students (since they shut down a number of them earlier this year since there just wasn't any money, and the local trading school is shuttering a number of classes this winter). Should I not bother with state/city operated trade schools? I'm pretty immediately suspicious of any privately run trade certification programs because I know a number of people in the family who went to these places and came out with mountains of debt. I would also need to save up money to move out for this option; my dad went to trade school and he hasn't been doing well for a while even with this vast library of knowledge he has about all sorts of cool things, so he doesn't want me going to trade school. Continuing my education for the purpose of a bachelors degree is my condition for being able to live at home. Or else I get kicked out.
This particular certification given by the ASCP (American Society for Clinical Pathology), and is just an example. If you're into IT, avoid places like ITT Tech. They will rob you and leave you naked in an alley. There are a ton of IT certifications you can get to do just about every damn thing, and most of them don't require you to attend technical school. I seem to recall you had an interest in some aspects of construction, with regard to the materials that go into building different things. I could be totally making that up, but if I'm not, there are probably things for you to study in that area as well that won't require a full-blown architecture degree.. Things like technical drawing are very useful to be able to do, and I know you don't necessarily need a degree to do that.
Basically, you want to figure out your area of interest, find something you'd like to do in it, and then find out the most direct route to get there. It may well not be a degree. You should really try to figure out what you want before spending a whole bunch of money on college, because not everything requires college, and it is fast becoming a bottomless maw especially in the sciences.
Societal pressure concerning getting an education is truly terrible. First of all, there is no need to graduate in your early twenties. Even if you, theoretically, would only figure out that thing that makes you happy by the time you're thirty and start your career in that field then, you'd probably spend more than half your life doing it.
It's really unfortunate that your father has such strict views on college, because it's certainly not as though all college grads, especially depending on their degree, have an easy time getting a job. In fact, if you find yourself on a track you want to pursue, the time spent networking and possibly interning during your education in that field is worth more than x number of years slacking off towards a degree you're not comfortable with or proud of. Continuing to accumulate debts also can't be in your parents interests for you.
Perhaps try breathing a bit, collecting your thoughts and negotiating with your parents.
And, of course, the creative call, i.e. art, has been notorious in making career choices difficult. But that's another thing that takes time to figure out - if you really want to pursue it, and if so, what you want to pursue; i.e. graphic design, illustration, animation, etc. Of course, there are proper art colleges where you'd spend your first year, I think, doing foundation stuff and could branch off into any of their degrees, some of which are even pretty standard liberal arts degrees (General education, teaching, arts administration, stuff like that).
The impression I get is that you could be vastly passionate, if you knew what you wanted. The way you describe your high school experience, as potentially underdemanding (as your essays, which are, again, more creative, are something you're proud of), and getting up to Cs in college, which you don't enjoy as much as anyone should, really.
I'm sorry that I can't give you hard advice, as it were, because I don't reside in the US, but my impression is that you might want to negotiate with your parents first.
It's very important that neither you nor your parents throw money and time at something that, in your current state, doesn't seem to be something you have any interest or motivation for. It's just going to lead to more depression and more debt unless you get a stroke of inspiration from somewhere. If at all possible sit down with your parents and have a serious discussion about what you want to do and how best to get there.
Ceres: Ah I know what you are talking about (irt construction). I am quite fascinated by urban planning but it requires a masters while I am still a long way off from a bachelors and it would probably be a good idea to 'wait on' that because the job market for it is terrible right now and would take a longer while to recover since it is long-term oriented work. I still think it is interesting so I try to be involved with the local planning meetings.
Any particular tips for job search? I do worry about being able to support myself since the job market isnt kind right now and even silly positions seem to want degrees. The job I have now is my first, I'm just trying to lay down a respectable foundation for a resume so I can have an easier time of getting future jobs or internships, "She hasn't been sitting on her butt all day, look, someone here can vet that she is responsible". Relating back to Cere's earlier mention of certifications, do you think there would be any value in language certifications? I am pretty good at foreign languages and stand a pretty good chance of knowing five. I'd still need to study and practice speaking aloud (I get shy) but that has to be useful to somebody, right?
My biggest college regret was missing a free Snoop Dogg concert to study for a final that I failed anyway. That is what I learned from college: when Snoop is in town you get up and go see him.
Again though, you're throwing out like a million things you want to do. Slow down, take a breath, go back to school, take some general requirements and figure out what you want. There's no need to declare a major right away. I didn't figure it out till the very end of my second year.
You might want to talk to someone about your study habits/note taking and/or get a tutor if you're failing exams. That's not a good path to go down. What class was it for?
The class I failed was called . . . Critical thinking . . . I took all the tutoring available, and missed the Snoop concert. The Professor said I should get tested for a learning disorder :? I content the material was just obnoxiously difficult. The other one was a Nutrition class. having the memorize thousands upon thousands of little facts, gah. Aside I got two Cs on other classes but passed everything else with As and Bs.
I know this must mean a lot to your parents, and on some level possibly you too, even though you really do not sound into it. But college, and the college environment, is just not for everybody all the time. There is so much pressure in our society to be educated in this way, and it is very, very expensive and frankly not always what's best.
I appreciate that they want to give you an opportunity, but eventually they are going to have to understand that right now you just don't have the direction to make proper use of it. That's not a dig on anybody. Lots of people are not good to go right after high school (which is little surprise given the way high school tends to be structured in this country), and I wasn't either. I wasted lots and lots of money not being ready because that was just when you're supposed to do it and it's now or never and then I'll forever be a wandering vagrant oh God. The funny thing? I ended up going BACK to school to do the exact thing I started college for, and this May I graduated with the degree I'd wanted anyway but just could not make work 11 years prior.
Have you tried negotiating for a few years off? Saying something like "Hey, I'll totally let you guys pay for all the college you want in 2016 when I know what I want to do, but right now I don't."
Frankly, all those languages you know... in many cases you can't get jobs with them (depending on the language, of course) unless you can establish proficiency at the very least. There are tests you can take to get certified in just about any language. They are great to have on your resume and will tell a potential employer your level of proficiency with the language in question. On the other hand, if one of those languages happens to be Spanish and you are very conversational, there are lots of jobs at places like health facilities for things like receptionists that you don't need a bunch of education for but still look excellent to future employers if you can keep them. You probably don't need anything fancy for something like that, but be prepared to have your interview in Spanish.
Of course, I don't know your cultural background and history, so that might change things.
And, I'm sorry for the shitty situation your parents have put you in.
But my take on it is that you leave college. If that has actually been your desire since graduating high school, I think you at least need to taste the notion of life out of school, to either get it out of your system or find another (perfectly valid) way through life for you. I'd suggest looking for jobs right now, maybe use the college network to find some entry-level position (and if they'd prefer recent graduates or something, cry them a river about not being able to afford college for now and having every intention to graduate at a later point).
Maybe get together with one or two of your girlfriends, if they feel similarly uncomfortable?
And I advise you to actually quit education, which is usually not so sound advice, because from what I gather, you need more conviction to commit to a degree or vocational or whatever course; which is fine. Your parents might resent you for it, but once you bounce back, figure out what you want and enrol in that program or show that you are happy with your choice, I'm sure your relationship will improve again. After all, they don't want you to get an education to torture you, even if it unfortunately has quite a similar effect right now.
But if you stay in school to pursue a dismal degree you don't care about that leads you down a path you don't want for the next couple of years, and ties you down because of loans, you might actually resent your parents for quite a long time.
It does very much feel like the choice between bad and worse, which does, as ceres beautifully put it, suck. But in the long run, dropping out for now seems healthier, if your parents are really as unfortunately set in their ways.
Still, I say this from a very distant perspective. ... I open the floor to someone wiser.
You're an adult. Act like one. Your parents have zero power over you. Get a job (whatever...fast food, washing dishes, etc...) and move out. I highly doubt they're going to throw you onto the street and if nothing else, go crash on a friend's couch until you have enough money for your own place. It's that or re-enroll in your 4 year, get your shit together and stop failing exams, and see what it is you enjoy doing.
How in debt are you loan wise?
I'm not sure how well you'd be able to handle the money factor, but basically this. Get some roommates or find a room to rent, you'll never have independence otherwise. You're old enough now that they don't have the authority to make major decisions of your life for you, but as long as they're keeping you in food and shelter they're certainly going to act like they do. Your parents will get over it. Or maybe they'll be shitty and won't. Either way it's the right move, I think.
As far as college goes, usually I'm not one to recommend taking a year off before college, since that can easily turn into taking fifteen years off before college and doing grunt work retail that whole time. You can easily spend a freshman year taking electives and not losing any time figuring out a career. Buuuut...since you're past that point now, I'd say take some time off. Or do whatever minimal number of credits it takes to keep your loans at bay. At this stage, it's easy to just keep plugging away at school trying to get something, anything, and end up with a lot of debt and a degree that gets you no jobs (perhaps especially art degrees, but I'm saying this as an engineer). Get a job doing grunt retail, or sign up at a temp agency and do data entry or whatever, live cheaply, and build up some savings. By time you've done that hopefully you'll have had time to figure out exactly what you want from a career, and have found the best path from point A to point B that doesn't rack up a ton of debt.
I might have missed something there, but what's this about your job doesn't pay you? Because that sounds like a shitty job. There's gotta be better ways to fill out a resume, especially if that's time you could be working a real job.
Speaking as a guy who once had an argument with his parents and moved out within about forty minutes, and took seven years to graduate. It all turned out pretty alright, now I'm making the mad bucks. Well, median American household bucks, but it feels good.
I hate to boil it down to this, but.. it's your happiness and future and livelihood, or... not making your mom cry. If not making your mom cry is worth those other things and also the mountain of debt you're accruing just to try to make them happy... then it is, and there's not much else to say and you just have to figure out a way to motivate to keep yourself in the game. But this isn't even their mountain of debt; it's yours, and you will be responsible for paying it down, which is a further sacrifice of your happiness and livelihood and wellbeing for YEARS to come, especially if you graduate with a degree you didn't want and won't do anything to help with that mountain.
They may get over it in time... or they may not. There's no sugar-coating that. You have to decide to be okay with that.
One thing you can do is take out the loans to live on campus somewhere for a semester. Take whatever you want, evening courses where possible, just focus on getting the best-paying job you can, and save every penny possible. This will add a lot to your loans, but so would staying anyway. If they don't want you to get a job... well.. you're an adult, not living under their roof, and they basically have no say that you don't give them. At the end of the semester move out and into the cheapest piece of crap apartment you can find and afford. Quit your school, keep your job, and voila. You are living and working on your own. Your student loans are due up in 6 months, so keep saving to make sure you have enough to make the minimum payments on them.
This will obviously be a lot harder than it sounds. Annnnnd now you're a bad influence, so don't be surprised if suddenly those friends still trying to make it work have to talk to you on the sly. Crap apartments are crap for a reason, and you may want to find a better-paying job ASAP so you don't have to keep living in them. And of course there's always the option of taking a roommate, which can really help with a lot of the financial burden.
I really don't think you'll be happy doing that forever, but for a year or two while you figure things out and save money there's a lot of freedom in living that way.
I'm not too deep in debt, 6k. I went to the college that offered the best financial aid got out of college before I could accumulate any more debt. My parents were actually on me to not worry about taking on loans but it freaked me out.
I think I'd want to at least finish up the year here before I moved out. Saving up money obviously, but also because work and school are incredibly close from home, and because I'm still working on my health issues. It isn't anything that will kill me but I am making good progress here and would want to be in better health before I go through something stressful (I have measurable, concrete goals in terms of this that I have discussed with doctors). I'd been thinking that I would try to take classes at one of the further-away, better run CCs with one the most robust articulation agreements in the district, I could perhaps peacefully move out if my intention was to go there (the commute would be in the order of 2+ hours). Mostly I think I'll just cross that bridge once I get to it because I'd rather not think about it right now beyond the goal of saving up money. I don't have the option of taking out loans to live someplace else unless I took out private loans which I really do not want to do, the CC doesn't provide housing anyway.
I'm not worried about my friends not talking to me. Of the maybe two that I still have here they are pretty much in similar situations. I suppose they dont have any debt but I at least had the luxury of being able to take a variety of classes before deciding that none of them pointed towards a career for me. They pretty much had to start their educations at the CCs with a major declared from day one and they don't seem to have much more direction in life than I do, I think they might be more 'stuck' at this point. Everyone else I know here has dropped out and disappeared or moved away and disappeared already.
I would want to ask what it was like being so young and already working full-time/not attending school/living on one's own. I'm the eldest child of the entire extended family, and all of my friends are also from immigrant families, if not also the eldest of those families. I don't think my family provides a good barometer of experience because they grew up in a different time, never tried for higher education, none of them moved out before they got married, and of the family that is closer in age to me, they've gotten married and started a family young. I don't know anyone that is living on their own, because again, all the people I know have immigrant parents. I am not counting the friends that live in dorms, that is kind of a weird situation. I can think of a lot of advantages to living that way but it also sounds fairly miserable in other respects, what sort of social role or niche does that kind of person occupy?
6k is absolute chicken feed. Your monthly payments on that would be next to nothing.
As for the quoted statement...millions upon millions of people do it. It's pretty normal and they occupy the same niche anyone else does socially.
If you're set on finishing out the year and you have a job and a plan to save money and move out, you are actually ahead of most college-going 19-year-olds. In fact, you're probably ahead of a lot of 25-year-olds and possibly some 40-year-olds. You're doing okay. You have some things you KNOW you want to do; try to keep those in sight for now, and don't overcomplicate it too much.
"Learning how this 'adult' shit works" would probably be the best thing to call it, but I can think of people in their 30s who still fill that niche. Once you find your feet, it can be a pretty nice niche.
I've got a better handle of what things I don't like and what kinds of educational styles don't work for me (and I went in honestly thinking I would be fine with it), and talking with some kind forumers here about their occupations was very helpful. Did you talk to working professionals before you embarked on a career path? Is there a good way to get in contact with them outside of forum-luck? I wouldn't just want to fruitlessly bother a random or anything. It would also be interesting to hear how some of you ended up deciding upon particular education/career goals and decide that this/that was for you. Were there any difficulties in getting back to education that you could have avoided with the benefit of hindsight?
You guys have all been very helpful, I am thankful for the responses.
Your professors and the department you want to be in are the professionals. Those are the people you talk to. You seem really dead set on having everything perfectly worked out. That's not how life goes. Flounder around, make bad decisions, stumble into things until you find the right path. That's how you do it. Loosen up a little. Your life will get a lot better.
Cool off on school until you have a firm understanding of the careers you're working towards. Like ceres and Esh said, listen to anybody that will talk to you. You can usually schedule meetings with departments at a university to get an idea for the type of work they are preparing you for. And see if you can shadow some folks, if that's possible. Most people are happy to show an interested person around. I was surprised how easy it was for people in the hospital to open their doors for me and really give me an inside view.
And keep in mind even when you're REALLY interested in something, it may not be the right fit for your desired lifestyle. My whole life I had this bug in my ear telling me to go to medical school. Some of that is documented on this forums. And I quit my job, completed most of the pre-requisites, took a few lumps, and learned conclusively it was not for me. Does the medical field still interest me? Tremendously. I'm enrolled in nursing now pursuing my BSN. It took digging through the dirt before I turned up exactly what was the correct fit.
Now this isn't to say I regret the classes I didn't need, or my first degree, but it does come with a financial burden. So weigh out your life experience vs. your ability to tackle the finances before you embark on your next educational pursuit. If you're serious about a career, it needs to line up with your financial, lifestyle, and educational goals. Are you willing to make the educational investment? Are you willing to accept the minimum salary? Would that salary pay for your loans, bills, and preferred lifestyle? Are you okay with the hours and work environment? Really dig into these questions.
All said and done, you may not even need school to achieve your goals. But if you go that route, do your due diligence this time and be prepared to work your ass off. As a non-traditional student piling on more debt, I take NOTHING for granted. Nothing. It's a pretty big motivator for exams when you know all your future lifestyle goals are resting on doing well.
Warframe: TheBaconDwarf
Eeh, I feel like I've made some bad decisions already! I would hope that I could plan for things to go smoothly, I wouldn't want to be wasting my time or be stuck someplace I don't like anymore than I'd have to, ya know? (to an extent I am talking about home) I will definitely be more informed and responsible for my own decisions this time round. This could have all been avoided if I'd stood my ground and refused to rush into college in the first place but that can't be helped anymore.
I will keep all advice in mind, this thread has been very helpful. I'll keep in mind to update if I have burning questions or if something relevant comes up.
I changed my major twice before deciding on one. Luckily, there were some cross major classes so I didn't waste too much time. Don't sweat it so hard. It's not the end of the world.
[edit] as such I am going to be wary of where I apply whenever the time comes. Some CSU's get cut more than others, the UCs are shielded more than the CSUs but of the Unis some are cut more than other Unis, maybe I should consider applying to privates etc.
First, most people vastly underestimate the "family influence" in many immigrant families. It's easy for people to say "Move out, you're your own person now", however myself having grown up in an Asian immigrant family, I recognize to do that is very, very difficult. You can, but don't take this step lightly. Talk to your parents. They might not fully comprehend what you are going through.
Second, I don't think a 4-year senior college was an ill-fit for you. You did well, which already says a lot. The main problem was finding direction, which given the constraints at that time was not possible. You did not mention how well you liked your professors in your 4-year college, however you did mention you love art, which is great! You have a direction! So what if your parents want you to get an accounting/finance/typicalimmigrantfamilydesire major. Their primary desire is for you to not go through the immigrant life they went through, and will be happy as long as you can demonstrate you can secure a living.
That being said, you do seem like you would do better in an environment that provides more nurture and support than what you described is the CC environment. If the senior college provides that, I don't think it would be a horrible idea to go back. You might be fascinated how some things work out after a short jaunt on the opposite bank. It would be ideal if you could transfer into a college/school within the university more aligned with your interests, however I am not familiar with the education system in Cali.
As a forumer, I agree with Esh: Find professors in your CC who are in the field you are interested in and talk to them. Failing that, go back to your 4-year college and talk to professors in the field you are interested in. Professors are experts in their fields and can give you better advice on what programs to consider, how you might be able to structure your application process, etc... Some of them might have resources that can be helpful to resolving your dilemma. I would go one step further, and contact professors in other campuses who work in fields you are interested in, you never know what will pop up.
On a side note, if you are interested in art, start getting artsy on your off time! It's a good funnel for any internal frustrations, and it will provide material for the portfolio you will be putting together.
I'd only gathered contact info and had started contacting admissions officers, I dont know why I hadn't thought to contact professors, doi.
met with my counselor to look at my transcripts. I'm well along but still very far from being able to transfer. I wont be able to finish all the required General Eds for the next application cycle in Fall 2013. Were it possible to take summer/winter classes I could manage but summer/winter classes were cut. It doesn't account for any premajor classes I might need to take either (which are also fairly substantial). This was really depressing to hear. 4 years of taking general eds? I don't know how long I'd take to finish my major classes either if the campus I transfer to still suffers from impacted classes. I don't really want to be in school, especially community college, for that long. It makes me want to quit entirely, I'm pretty sure I'd be absolutely miserable the entire time. I could do 2 years here, but not 3. The counselor recommended I consider private colleges (with more lenient transfer requirements) because I could transfer faster and graduate sooner than staying in the public system. I don't really know what to make of that advice. Since I haven't been able to take any classes that interest me as far as possible majors go since I started college, I've been trying to investigate this stuff on my own, and learned rather late that the CC transfer route is really designed for you to have a major and target college in mind before you start. They have plans for each major, but because I have previous transcripts from another institution my 'plan' is a mess, and I didn't come in with a clear goal in mind so the counselor couldn't really help me, and majors in the arts are different from transferring for humanities/sciences. That's why it is going to take me so long.
I still want to move out and have saved up more in the interim but how much do you recommend I try to save up before I leave? I definitely can't do it now. At least I've managed to bring my parents sort of onboard with my moving out: since my local cc is so packed and doesnt have the classes I need I have to take classes at other community colleges. The commute sucks, and I might need to be going to a cc much further away, with a one way commute of two hours. If I have multiple classes there in a day I might spend ungodly amounts of time commuting or putzing around on campus waiting for class to start. I would not be able to work. Currently I spend my Wednesdays commuting 4 hours a day. It slays you and I return really irritable , I go crazy there. And so my parents are more okay with my moving out. Now I'm more confident about saving some cash up but again, I don't really know how much to save up or how I'd go around doing it. My friends aren't on board any longer either so we cant pool our money together to buy/share larger expenses. I'm looking for a second job right now to help. I figure I'm going to need to put together enough for the deposit + a few month's rent + expenses, buying all the stuff you need like plates and a bed and stuff, plush some sort of cushion. The thing that really gets to me is that I will be having to school and work full time (a prospect I dread), and I wont be able to take any internships if the possibility arises (I'm not betting on them being payed or offering very much). Apparently I'm supposed to start thinking about that but I don't know how poor people can afford it. So I question why I want to move out and whether it's a good idea or not.
I might need to get a car if I move out. My parents are no help. They insist I buy a brand new car. The say about 20k is a good price point. That sounds ridiculously stupid to me. Right now I don't need one, the bus is just as fast and a lot cheaper, and our neighborhood has a walkability score in the 90s. I bus everywhere right now and its fine. Note that I live in LA county, hence why I think I might need to get a car. How much does an ok used one buy? Personally I want to put off a car as long as possible because because my insurance premiums will be hellish (I didn't get licensed until 20, how old I am right now, just turned last month). Am I wrong in thinking I should try to get one or what? I cant guarantee where I will end up living but I think saving up for one just in case might be a good idea, but hey, I don't really know better.
I guess that's it. Between updates I've managed to get my parents to not be so adamant about my living with them and I learned I will probably need to stay at community college for 3 years. I've saved up a little bit of money and have started more seriously thinking about moving out, maybe and maybe getting a car, maybe, and started a new job search. I'm about as unhappy and frustrated as I was before about; I don't know if its forward progress but its different, I guess.
Not everyone has the good fortune to land a bartending job in a hip urban city with good mass transit and be financially independent. Some people (including me and many in this forum) are dependent on their parents for food and shelter, horror of horrors.
Muse-
Most states have some sort of AA to baccalaureate degree, where if you get your AA (and maybe some extra classes) then you get priority admission to a "real" college. It seems you've looked into that, but it's never too late to declare a target major and start working towards it. If it'll take a long time to reach your goal then now is the best time to start!
I don't presume to know about your financial situation but private colleges are as a rule a lot more expensive than public colleges, even with financial aid.
Do you really really need a car? It sounds like you've got public transit well in hand, even if it does take hellishly long to get to and from your school. Cars cost a lot of money, with everything from maintenance to gas to insurance. If you're dead set on getting a car though I'd ask a family friend or maybe a relative who works on cars to come along. Go to multiple dealerships. There's also a car thread over in D&D with some knowledgeable fellas in it, you could ask them what you should be looking for and how much does a decent used car cost.
Also community college sucks ass, I know. I had to stay there for three years. But it's cheap and the quality of instruction turned out to be the same as my courses I took this semester in "real" college. So stick with it! You'll be kicking yourself in 5 years if you drop out now. I got an unfortunate number of D's but I retook the classes and pulled through. If a lousy student like me can do it, you can do it!
I don't really need a car, I was interested in how much a used one would cost though and that is still wildly outside my means.
Under the "counselors" section of this site there's a list of the colleges that do it. You could, uh, double-check?
anyways have a good break and I hope everything works out for you
Just look for the most reliable, best condition whatever vehicle you can get for that price
20k for a new car would be great, if you had just finished college and started a new job and your finances were all in order