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[PA Comic] Monday, October 22, 2012 - Thornwatch, Part Three

GethGeth LegionPerseus VeilRegistered User, Moderator, Penny Arcade Staff, Vanilla Staff vanilla
edited October 2012 in The Penny Arcade Hub
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  • TychoCelchuuuTychoCelchuuu ___________PIGEON _________San Diego, CA Registered User regular
    The end! Does the kid join the Thornwatch? Or does Thornwatch dude kill the batthing and then the kid takes credit? Mystery!

  • Mr.FahrenheitMr.Fahrenheit Registered User regular
    Incredible

  • LibrarianLibrarian The face of liberal fascism Registered User regular
    If they want to explore the universe more, which they probably intend to do, they better explain why the Thornwatch got such a hilariously bad rep as the comic seems to imply.
    As far as we know they are Lookouts who didn't meet the standards or deserted, but the comic shows that popular belief in that world is that they are some vile monsters and that it is better to die than to deal with them.

    Also what does that say about the Lookouts? If you are not willing to die in a fight you can not possibly win(boy that looks like a preschooler vs. the wolfbatthing) you get kicked out?
    And how do they instantsummon the watch with some twigs around a tree?

    Brad R. Torgersen says:

    Librarian,

    Go read what I said about not arguing with third graders.
  • Jam WarriorJam Warrior Registered User regular
    Speaking of exploring the Universe more, has anybody purchased the Comixology Lookouts comics? Any good?

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  • JimboJimbo down underRegistered User regular
    This one gave me chills down the back of the neck. I love it.

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    eldercore
  • Groosenat0rGroosenat0r http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sy70Z6x00TM SkyloftRegistered User regular
    Do not fall to darkness child, such is not the way of your noble order...

  • Man in the MistsMan in the Mists Registered User regular
    I have to wonder if the Thornwatch is so reviled because they're a threat to the Lookout society in one very important way: How valid is your lifestyle if others who flaunt it survive? Or worse, thrive?

    Commander Zoom
  • DiannaoChongDiannaoChong Registered User regular
    I assume the comics are supposed to contrast the villages knowledge (the poem we get), so if thorn watch is so reviled and children are told boogeymen stories about them, why would they ever get desperate enough to call on them? I think they dropped the ball again on another lookouts run.

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  • MalReynoldsMalReynolds The Hunter S Thompson of incredibly mild medicines Registered User regular
    I assume the comics are supposed to contrast the villages knowledge (the poem we get), so if thorn watch is so reviled and children are told boogeymen stories about them, why would they ever get desperate enough to call on them? I think they dropped the ball again on another lookouts run.

    Because that kid's friend was gruesomely murdered in the first comic by a bat-dog-demon thing. I assume the kid used the Thornwatch call as a last resort.

    "A new take on the epic fantasy genre... Darkly comic, relatable characters... twisted storyline."
    "Readers who prefer tension and romance, Maledictions: The Offering, delivers... As serious YA fiction, I’ll give it five stars out of five. As a novel? Four and a half." - Liz Ellor
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  • Jam WarriorJam Warrior Registered User regular
    edited October 2012
    He's also aware that now he has run away from the monster, his prime dick village elders will probably cast him out anyway if he goes back. If not worse!

    He can't hack the forest alone, he can't go home now, the Thornwatch is all he has left.

    Jam Warrior on
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  • King RiptorKing Riptor Registered User regular
    Yeah it seems like the people of the forest kill monsters only as a last resort. Hell it could be argued the lookouts are just sacrifices to keep the monsters happy the survivors being able bodied defenders is just a bonus.

    One would venture the thorn watch is not a fan of that system.

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  • XaviarXaviar Registered User regular
    Speaking of exploring the Universe more, has anybody purchased the Comixology Lookouts comics? Any good?
    They're not half bad. I will continue picking them up if they make more.

    Shen
  • rembrandtqeinsteinrembrandtqeinstein Registered User regular
    Backseat writing, the born and thorn rhyme was already used in part 1. It could be something like "to be in twain torn".

    But the comic is great and any game that comes out with this lore and those mechanics will be pre-ordered as soon as possible.

  • GaslightGaslight Registered User regular
    Backseat writing, the born and thorn rhyme was already used in part 1. It could be something like "to be in twain torn".

    I think it was probably done intentionally, using the same rhyme to begin and end as bookends, sort of. It would be a bit more effective if the poem/series had four parts so there were two stanzas in between and born/thorn rhyme didn't come up again so quickly, but yeah, backseat writing.

    bowen wrote: »
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  • The Good Doctor TranThe Good Doctor Tran Registered User regular
    "To be made unborn" is now my favorite euphemism for murder.

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  • FalxFalx Registered User regular
    Backseat writing, the born and thorn rhyme was already used in part 1. It could be something like "to be in twain torn".

    But the comic is great and any game that comes out with this lore and those mechanics will be pre-ordered as soon as possible.

    In order to facilitate passing down spoken lore, you want your rhymes to be simple and follow an easily learned pattern. The elder's aren't looking for a poetry prize, but for the survival of their cultural genes.

  • LucascraftLucascraft Registered User regular
    I'm still a bit confused about this whole storyline.

    What do we *know*?

    We don't know what the beast is, or what the circumstances of the first comic are. We see a fallen short sword or dagger. We see a shredded green garment, but there is no body and no blood. There's no indication that anybody died.

    In the second comic we see the boy with an expression on his face that is a mix of fear and shame. The fear is understandable. There's a bat/dog monster back in the woods. But the shame isn't as easily understood. The boy ran from a bat/dog. That's not a shameful act. And we don't know that he abandoned anyone or anything.

    The poem mentions oath-breakers, but we don't know what oath was broken.

    We know that he summoned the Thornwatch, but for what? Safe passage out of the woods? To kill the bat/dog?

  • TychoCelchuuuTychoCelchuuu ___________PIGEON _________San Diego, CA Registered User regular
    My take: the boy's job was to kill that monster. The boy chickened out and ran. He knows that the Thornwatch is made up of the oathbreakers, and that he has broken his oath ("may we die in the forest" or maybe just "I'll kill Batman's dog") so he summons the Thornwatch, knowing that they are the only ones who will accept him now. He becomes a member of the Thornwatch, because, like all the rest of their members, he is now a disgraced/outcast Lookout.

  • GaslightGaslight Registered User regular
    edited October 2012
    Lucascraft wrote: »
    I'm still a bit confused about this whole storyline.

    What do we *know*?

    We don't know what the beast is, or what the circumstances of the first comic are. We see a fallen short sword or dagger. We see a shredded green garment, but there is no body and no blood. There's no indication that anybody died.

    There is blood all over the beast's mouth and legs. The shredded green cloak clearly belonged to somebody else, as the boy's appears to be intact.

    It seems very clear to me that the beast killed the boy's partner and he ran away in terror rather than fight.

    The absence of a visible corpse is problematic, but the other evidence clearly points to the beast having already killed somebody and the boy not wanting to be next. Maybe Gabe just didn't want to draw a dead kid?

    Gaslight on
    bowen wrote: »
    The bacteria in your poop exist everywhere.
  • TychoCelchuuuTychoCelchuuu ___________PIGEON _________San Diego, CA Registered User regular
    Or maybe he drew an invisible dead child. Or the batdog ate the kid really fast.

  • GaslightGaslight Registered User regular
    Yeah, I considered the "ate him whole" possibility and almost offered it, and we can't rule it out considering we're dealing with a ferocious fantasy batwolf. But it seems a little unlikely.

    bowen wrote: »
    The bacteria in your poop exist everywhere.
  • SerukoSeruko Ferocious Kitten of The Farthest NorthRegistered User regular
    Librarian wrote: »
    If they want to explore the universe more, which they probably intend to do, they better explain why the Thornwatch got such a hilariously bad rep as the comic seems to imply.
    As far as we know they are Lookouts who didn't meet the standards or deserted, but the comic shows that popular belief in that world is that they are some vile monsters and that it is better to die than to deal with them.

    Also what does that say about the Lookouts? If you are not willing to die in a fight you can not possibly win(boy that looks like a preschooler vs. the wolfbatthing) you get kicked out?
    And how do they instantsummon the watch with some twigs around a tree?

    I got a feeling from look outs, that sometimes they were just tasty snacks to make the monsters go away happy.

    "How are you going to play Dota if your fingers and bitten off? You can't. That's how" -> Carnarvon
    "You can be yodeling bear without spending a dime if you get lucky." -> reVerse
    "In the grim darkness of the future, we will all be nurses catering to the whims of terrible old people." -> Hacksaw
    "In fact, our whole society will be oriented around caring for one very decrepit, very old man on total life support." -> SKFM
    I mean, the first time I met a non-white person was when this Vietnamese kid tried to break my legs but that was entirely fair because he was a centreback, not because he was a subhuman beast in some zoo ->yotes
  • DarkewolfeDarkewolfe Registered User regular
    edited October 2012
    These comics are wholesome in an almost twisted Bernstein Bears kind of way. They seem obviously drawn in the style of "stories for children with an adult theme" (sort of in the vein of Neil Gaiman, though admittedly Gaiman does it better). I think wanting gruesome, bloody corpses as proof that someone died is an unreasonable request. The style isn't set up for it.

    Darkewolfe on
    What is this I don't even.
  • DiannaoChongDiannaoChong Registered User regular
    edited October 2012
    It's not obvious that there was anyone with the boy(the cloth and blood could of been old), or that they were out on a mission. I guess it makes sense that the boy ran, understood he broke his oath, and would have to join the watch instead. But were still in the same boat of "this comic didnt show or tell us anything, and were inferring everything we know literally on fluff explained a week in advance by the author"

    edit: Seruko, we can assume someone died, but we dont know if they were sent to kill the beast, if both were playing in the forrest, discovered the beast and decided to attack, or if the boy was sent out alone all along and found the beast and his friends cloak, who had been missing for 3 days. All we know is " boy ran out of fear for the beast to the watch, because his people would hate him for running?"

    Edit2: ok reading the wensday thread the comic makes this more clear. He didn't oathbreak, he witnessed his friends killed by the beast, no matter if they were sent or stumbled upon it. So he went and tied the wreath in order to call for the thornwatches help to kill the beast. Why the thornwatch is refered to in such a negative light when they are to be called upon in times of dire need, is never explained, just that they are in themselves oathbreakers. Maybe they are oathbreakers because they aren't all super "boot-straps mcgee" about the children.

    This makes it shameful to ask for their help, and the community states that its better to die then say there right? It follows at least I guess? Even though there are multiple counts of the children getting help from adults and such in the other comics.

    DiannaoChong on
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  • SomeblokeSomebloke Registered User
    I wonder if calling the Thornwatch is in some ways "cheating"?

    The Lookout universe seems to be pretty big on rules. If it wasn't, there'd probably be less preschoolers running through the woods trying to kill monsters.

    Well, there'd be less preschoolers forced to run through the woods killing monsters.

  • PonyPony Registered User regular
    why are all the Lookouts comics confusing as shit

  • TychoCelchuuuTychoCelchuuu ___________PIGEON _________San Diego, CA Registered User regular
    I imagine it's sort of like calling the Mafia to solve a problem you have with your neighbor. People would look down on you for not calling the cops, even if calling the cops weren't as effective.

  • Red or AliveRed or Alive Registered User regular
    Yeah it seems like the people of the forest kill monsters only as a last resort. Hell it could be argued the lookouts are just sacrifices to keep the monsters happy the survivors being able bodied defenders is just a bonus.

    One would venture the thorn watch is not a fan of that system.

    That... makes a lot of sense.



    Carpe Diem. By the CROTCH.
  • KalTorakKalTorak Way up inside your butthole, Morty. WAAAAY up inside there.Registered User regular
    Yeah it seems like the people of the forest kill monsters only as a last resort. Hell it could be argued the lookouts are just sacrifices to keep the monsters happy the survivors being able bodied defenders is just a bonus.

    One would venture the thorn watch is not a fan of that system.

    That... makes a lot of sense.



    Wasn't this more or less stated to be the case in the first Lookouts story (the one with the basilisk that started the whole concept with the voting contest and finished by the guest artists)?

  • JW_IIIJW_III Registered User regular
    I get the impression that this Lookout is now as bound to answer when the next person calls. If that’s the case, only by fighting would he have had the chance to continue. In some lights, it’s just a different kind of death.

    Average height. Messy hair.
  • shoeboxjeddyshoeboxjeddy Registered User regular
    If this is the end of the story (one more would be nice), we're still uncertain on whether this kid has joined the Thornwatch or not. I mean, calling the A Team was illegal, but you didn't then join the A Team at the end. They just helped you and left with your thanks and maybe some compensation if you had something they needed/wanted. Same with the Three Amigos and various shows on USA (Burn Notice, White Collar, etc). Since the A Team was explicitly called out as a good comparison to make from one of the newsposts, we probably shouldn't assume this is how joining up happens unless they call it out to us in someway.

    Since "before/after" the fight is Cardboard Tube Samurai's shtick, it'd be nice to see Gabe do an action scene here...

  • Andy JoeAndy Joe The AdirondacksRegistered User regular
    Newspost is up.

    "Make and tune human beings" is now my favorite way to say "raise a family."

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  • Jam WarriorJam Warrior Registered User regular
    edited October 2012
    This makes it shameful to ask for their help, and the community states that its better to die then say there right? It follows at least I guess? Even though there are multiple counts of the children getting help from adults and such in the other comics.

    You've missed a major point here. There is one instance of an adult helping a child Lookout, and said adult was then chastised by the village elders for not letting him die.

    Seriously folks. This comic is your reference for the most Lookouts lore we've ever received. Those elders and their pact with the forest are the hub of it.

    Said pact being left a mystery because sometimes it's fun to be mysterious and watch people throw crazy theories around.

    Those of you asking for hard details are doomed to be disappointed for now as vague and mysterious is clearly the thing they are going for currently.

    And I personally love it.

    Jam Warrior on
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  • KalTorakKalTorak Way up inside your butthole, Morty. WAAAAY up inside there.Registered User regular
    Agreed, the vagueness is a plus for me. It's making the medium work for them.

    These are webcomics, not D&D lore- and rule-books.

  • JokermanJokerman Registered User regular
    You know, throwing around theories is fine for awhile, but eventually clarification somewhere is needed. Otherwise you reach a point you are no longer telling a story, just hinting about it.

  • MalReynoldsMalReynolds The Hunter S Thompson of incredibly mild medicines Registered User regular
    Jokerman wrote: »
    You know, throwing around theories is fine for awhile, but eventually clarification somewhere is needed. Otherwise you reach a point you are no longer telling a story, just hinting about it.

    Agreed, but at this point, I'm more than happy with the scent instead of the entree.

    "A new take on the epic fantasy genre... Darkly comic, relatable characters... twisted storyline."
    "Readers who prefer tension and romance, Maledictions: The Offering, delivers... As serious YA fiction, I’ll give it five stars out of five. As a novel? Four and a half." - Liz Ellor
    My new novel: Maledictions: The Offering. Now in Paperback!
    Anialos
  • FramlingFramling Registered User regular
    Buncha friggin' Ctrl-Alt-Del readers up ins.

    you're = you are
    your = belonging to you

    their = belonging to them
    there = not here
    they're = they are
    AnialosFalx
  • Twenty SidedTwenty Sided Registered User regular
    edited October 2012
    Jokerman wrote: »
    You know, throwing around theories is fine for awhile, but eventually clarification somewhere is needed. Otherwise you reach a point you are no longer telling a story, just hinting about it.
    Hinting about a story can work towards a certain minimalism.

    I'm sick of the HEY LOOK AT SETTING I BUILT COMPLETE WITH A SPOKEN LANGUAGE.

    I see the Thornwatch as being a response to the troubling ambiguity of the Lookouts story as it was initially told, where failed children were condemned to death.

    Twenty Sided on
  • DarkewolfeDarkewolfe Registered User regular
    I think my big thing with Lookouts is that it doesn't make any sense as a society that wouldn't have collapsed. You can have the awful, corrupt, authoritarian culture of child sacrifice, but you have to show that it WORKS and that's why people accept it. All this crazy shennaniganry just calls for too much suspension of disbelief.

    What is this I don't even.
  • Twenty SidedTwenty Sided Registered User regular
    Awful, corrupt and authoritarian governments often survive just fine.

    Also, technically, that's not child sacrifice. It's more like they send their kids to get hands-on experience fighting monsters.

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