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Trying to wean myself off dairy and grains.
superhappypanda
Zug Island Sport FishingSeattleRegistered User regular
Zug Island Sport FishingSeattleRegistered User regular
Hey all,
I'm trying to get myself off of some certain foods, and have been having a tough time making the transition. I'm trying to cut back on things like grains and dairy. I've gotten a lot better with my diet by replacing them with more fruits, vegetables, lean meats and eating healthier carbs when I do (i.e. yams and wild rice) and do a pretty good job staying away from ice cream and flavored yogurts (basically anything with added sugar). I want to try and eliminate oatmeal, wheat bread, milk and cheese entirely but am having a tough time cutting it out, especially after a workout I tend to crave a glass of chocolate milk and late at night and on the weekends I sometimes get a craving for a burger and fries. I also get pretty lethargic and cranky if I go an entire day without grains of any kind.
I was wondering if anyone on here has made a transition off this stuff and how they did it.
I'm trying to get myself off of some certain foods, and have been having a tough time making the transition. I'm trying to cut back on things like grains and dairy. I've gotten a lot better with my diet by replacing them with more fruits, vegetables, lean meats and eating healthier carbs when I do (i.e. yams and wild rice) and do a pretty good job staying away from ice cream and flavored yogurts (basically anything with added sugar). I want to try and eliminate oatmeal, wheat bread, milk and cheese entirely but am having a tough time cutting it out, especially after a workout I tend to crave a glass of chocolate milk and late at night and on the weekends I sometimes get a craving for a burger and fries. I also get pretty lethargic and cranky if I go an entire day without grains of any kind.
I was wondering if anyone on here has made a transition off this stuff and how they did it.
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Also, no soy, no artificial sweeteners or other replacement type products like veggie meats or anything like that.
And there's also a reason you feel fantastic after you're off them for a couple days. Grains are a recent addition to the human diet, and are in no way required.
Pause the workout for a couple days, would be my first suggestion. Don't do lean meat to the exclusion of fatty meat, because if you're lowering carbs, you need fat. But, really, if you want to manage it, I'd suggest cold turkey. If you make sure you get carbs from other sources (sweet potatoes are fantastic for this) then you won't suffer too terribly from a carb flu or anything.
One thing to check out might be Whole 30, if you really want to accomplish it. Its basically a 30-day clean diet, and for some people, having that goal can really help. Just "trying to cut it out" can leave a lot of mental leeway to cheat.
Another thing to remember is that for most people, butter is fine. And also delicious. (Kerry Gold is amazing, if you've got a couple extra dollars to spend. Organic, grassfed, and there is an absolute difference in taste. I tested it on my wife, by giving her kerry gold on her waffles for a few days, and then giving her ordinary butter, and she immediately mentioned that something was off.)
I'd recommend keeping an eye out in the paper for anyplace having a sale on steaks. A nice 1lb steak cooked up with salt and pepper, with sweet potato on the side, can pretty much banish any sort of craving you thought you had. :P
Pretty much, you just need to get through a few days, and the cravings will go away. But until you're willing to take the plunge, it'll be tough going, because grains are a lot like cigarettes.
I also don't do 7 days a week of avoiding grains and sugar, I give myself a cheat day. So if I'm really wanting chocolate milk (which is basically 24/7), I can tell myself that Saturday will be here soon enough, and I can order a big pizza, extra cheese, thick crust, and wash that down with a bunch of chocolate milk.
Having that built in cheat day helps me keep honest the rest of the week.
Except today, because Halloween.
That means no "but you need grain asshole" or "grain is poisonous toxic waste that will kill you". No one cares what you think. Just give the advice he's asking for, or steer clear.
As for advise to help stop eating these 2 food groups, the hardest and ultimately easiest method for me is to just use sheer willpower to stop. If you really don't want to do something, then just don't do it. If you can't do that, then try replacing the items with something else that is equally as easy or easier to make and/or get a hold of. The less effort used to replace something, the more likely it is to succeed in my experience
Also, @ceres. Thanks, that's one of the reasons I didn't mention the Paleo/Primal thing earlier in the post, I know some people debate this topic as hotly as religion and politics and that's NOT what I'm looking for here.
Go hard and completely avoid them and in 4 days or so, maybe a week, you'll feel amazing. If you don't after a week or two maybe rethink things but everyone I've met hates their life on day 2 and loves it on day 10. There really isn't a better option besides "suck it up for a few days and don't give in."
Edit: and at risk of making Ceres mad, what was said by Veevee may be true - dairy might not be all that bad in moderation, but that is up to you. Let your body decide. Spend a couple weeks without grains and see how you feel, then throw out the dairy.
The late night cravings for hamburgers and fries (for me it's pizza and beer) are something you're going to have to deal with through changing how you eat and discipline. If you don't cave it's easier to resist. Eat 2/3rds of your dinner for dinner, reserving the rest for a late snack. Or stock up on non grain/dairy snacks. Only ones I know of are basically trail mix ingredients (nuts, seeds and dried fruit) or jerky.
This will not make me mad because it is phrased as a suggestion or a possibility and also nicely.
My wrath is easy to incur, but this didn't do it.
I'm thirding this suggestion. Your plan is to cut both out. Start with one, give it time, then remove the other.
Good luck to you.
What kinds of things do you folks tend to keep stocked in the fridge to keep you away from going back to the grains and if you're eating out with friends, what do you usually look for on the menu that's good to eat and what kinds of pitfalls might somebody not really notice but wind up containing grains or flour?
Any soup or dish that has been thickened (curries, sauces, stews, soups) may've been thickened with flour or a roux (which usually has flour, though I've made roux with rice/arrowroot flour). Anything breaded probably has gluten in the breading. Deep fried stuff might've had a flour dredge, or it might be cornstarch (which is OK).
Personally I ignored the whole "carb" rule (atkins??) and just avoided bread/cereal in general. Things that had carbs like fruit and nuts I went crazy with. Seemed to be okay. Still lost weight because I was avoiding stuff that was premade and essentially sugar infused (like ceres mentioned in the last thread, you'd be surprised if you're not careful and examining labels, what exactly has HFCS floating all over/in it).
Yeah, I hear you on the HFCS. I've already eliminated almost all of that from my diet and I regularly scan the labels when I'm at the grocery store and avoid it if at all possible. Eating out at restaurants is a little more difficult.
One blog that may help:
http://nomnompaleo.com/
It's kind of like having a girlfriend.. even if the hottest girl ever walks by and flirts with you, you still make a choice. Minus the friends all eating her part. That might be a turnoff.
I think I kind of lost the metaphor a bit here, but you probably get the idea.
If his goal is to significantly reduce carbs, beans are pretty high in them.
I want to hear what you think about buffets.
OP, are you eliminating gluten, carbs or something else when you say "grains?" Lots of discussion including rice, which is a grain.
Initially though, the yams, wild rice, honey and maple syrup would be cut out for a bit to see how I feel without them, then maybe adding them back in if I want.
For the first week or two when you're really craving the grains etc (which will *usually* go away) I generally suggest things that are similar but... Not. So they taste good and give you that feeling of not depriving yourself but your body is still abstaining from the food you're trying to avoid.
Things like using pork rinds as chips and dipping them in home-made chili (meat, spices, sometimes I toss in some chorizo or whatever and hot sauce). It's like delicious nachos - definitely not low calorie, but these things help get over that first hump. Then the cravings and excessive appetite go away and you settle into a norm.
Steak, fish, eggs, bacon, ribs, ground beef, chili, chicken, turkey, crab legs, lobster - all with various vegetables like grilled asparagus, broccoli, brussel sprouts, spinach/salads etc are pretty staple foods I eat on a regular basis. Vegetables are, imo, one of the main keys to making this work. I personally hated all vegetables with a passion prior to making a dietary change and now I can genuinely say that the greens my girlfriends mother makes are the best things ever. Just collard greens cooked with a ham hock, bacon, and who knows what delicious spices.
Restaurants suck. I usually get an omelette if it is breakfast or some meat thing if it is not. Many places now have lettuce wrapped burger type things. I also try to intentionally go to places like mongolian/korean/brazilian BBQ where I can eat lots of meat and veggies.
This is really long but I hope it helped some. Any other questions you can PM me.
Playing off this, allowing yourself a cheat day is a good idea too. Like a friday pizza night or something.
I've exhausted the "diet" stuff on this site, so I'll just offer some advice of "Don't worry if you're not perfect with it 24/7." I used to get all upset if I had a slip up and ate something made with wheat or some processed sugar. Just acknowledge the slip up, remind yourself of why you want this lifestyle (maybe visit some supporting sites), and move on.
Origin: DustBunny777
3DS: 2836-0103-2102
What do you think legumes and grains have, exactly, that is so magical it doesn't show up in animals and vegetables?
You should be fine sans nuts.
I've never had a problem before. Nuts are pretty good snacks though.
NO. Wrong. Bad.
Advice asked for or go away.
Edit: The ban on soy means you are likely not going to be able to eat a lot of prepackaged or fast food. There are a tremendous amount of soy-derived products that go into processed food in the US. I don't see much value in removing soy if you're already restricting your diet from dairy and gluten, but thought you ought to know if you are avoiding soybeans. As a side note, most soy sauce in the US is not true soy sauce. True soy sauce is just soy beans and maybe salt. A lot of cheaper soy sauce is derived from fermented vegetable protein (often wheat) and will likely have gluten.
Ceres & Others, my point was mainly one of palatability and affordability. Can you survive on just eggs and orange juice? Technically yes. Same goes for just surviving on meat and vegetables, but limiting yourself from involving bean products and nut products vastly decreases the scope of what you're able to buy and consume to get your "daily bread", and is not a decision to be taken lightly. From a pure cost perspective, a lot of meat is expensive, and it becomes hard to maintain a variety of meals over a long period when you don't have options like a bean salad for long storage time/easy prep when you're tired.
The above was phrased incorrectly, and what I meant to say was that based on seasonality of produce, cost of meat/produce and pure ability/time for prep, it is incredibly hard to do it without beans or nuts.
I do agree that you should cut one thing at a time, though. Maybe make the beans/buts/legumes the third thing you cut.. like first the grains, then the dairy, then the beans. Make them their own category and do all of this gradually.
Cheat days are the best, it's really the only reason I've been able to stay on mine for as long as I have.
I don't know what your lunch at work situation is, but what I've done is cook a basic stew at the start of the week - lean ground beef, peas, some tomato sauce, and I put kidney beans in. I'm sure you could put more vegetables in as a substitute for the beans. It's cheap, easy, and I always have lunch at work, which was always my least healthy meal.
I've been cutting down on bread too, I'm surprised it makes you cranky and lethargic haha that's what I felt like those carbs did to me when I did eat them. What I've been doing is cutting bread in half so I just have a small slice with my food instead of a big one. Also I just stack on the vegetables to the point that I don't even realise there's no bread. You can get pretty creative with vegies (using them nstead of bread in the sandwhich/making "pasta" out of them).
Good luck!
I have not tried paleo or any analogs thereto, but I have gone on fairly strict diets that left me feeling like this. Caffeine between meals helps a lot. Also, how are often are you eating? You might try eating 5 or 6 times a day instead of 3 meals a day.
Nuts are definitely primal and are a big part of the diet. I didn't see the OP ever mention that he was trying to cut out nuts unless I missed it, which I may have. Note that peanuts are not nuts, though, they're legumes.