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The Fiscal Cliff and Other Instances of the Government Kicking Itself In the Economic Nuts
ElJeffe
Registered User, ClubPA regular
Registered User, ClubPA regular
So pretty soon we're going to be falling of the fiscal cliff and cartwheeling through the fog of political posturing and splatting on the jagged rocks of self-imposed doom and the guts of our economy will be strewn across the something something dooooooom. Here is a terrible and alarmist article that explains the whole mess.
Alternately, here is a description of the mess that will not make you stupider for having read it.
Discuss!
Alternately, here is a description of the mess that will not make you stupider for having read it.
Discuss!
I submitted an entry to Lego Ideas, and if 10,000 people support me, it'll be turned into an actual Lego set!If you'd like to see and support my submission, follow this link.
ElJeffe on
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That is a good opening bid. "Here are some unspecified cuts to Medicare that we'll talk about later. Meanwhile, bend over."
Why do you hate small business?
Wait, isn't this class warfare?
The fiscal cliff is the result of the agreement that they made during the debt ceiling debate. "We'll do this to force Congress to make a deal or all this bad stuff will happen automatically. And we'll force them to do it during an election year. There's no way this plan can fail!".
It doesn't surprise me that some people think doing it again is the best idea ever.
It's stupid that we have to deal with this on a completely artificial timeline.
Payroll taxes are dumb and regressive.
Fuck this gay earth.
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
I think Al Franken summed up class warfare very well.
Like, has anyone made a serious proposal to do this?
Note it only became a problem once Obama wanted to raise it. Also note the deficit only became a REALLY BIG problem once Obama took office. Coincidence?!
I guess you'd have it being affected by deductions, or something like that. Also you could make it more progressive. There would be a weird interface of the employer/employee contributions, though - unless you left the employer portion as-is you would need to capture that as part of the gross income, and then tax it away.
It would make it politically easier to cut social security benefits, since it would no longer be a self-funded program.
Other than small business owners who don't understand (or mislead) about how employer contributions work when you are your own employer, I didn't think anyone really has a problem with payroll taxes.
Sure, they are regressive and the cap should be removed, but overall the payroll tax -> SS / Medicare system seems to be one of the best programs / systems out there.
QEDMF xbl: PantsB G+
Taxes would go up, so no, they do not.
The cliff was just supposed to be another opportunity to force the Democrats to ransom the American economy. Nobody was seriously considering shooting the hostage.
The curve and cap for our payroll taxes are dumb.
I don't have a problem with payroll taxes in abstract.
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
Republicans are for small government when they are out of power. They are for incredibly draconian and invasive government when they are in power.
So far as I can tell.
Fixed that for you.
May be those who don't end up paying any taxes at all....but payroll taxes are paid by even the stupid 47% number they toss around.
May just mean "People who get a fucking pay check."
Which is still ignoring the CRS report that the top marginal tax rates affect economic growth about as much as the color of my stool. Their opposition to the cliff - at least the tax cut portion - is ideological and only in a symbolic fashion.
I was worried that Al Franken lost his charm when becoming a senator, since he remarkably took to the job seriously. :^:
Obama should have opened these negotiations with what seasonings to use on the rich when we have subsidized gangs of socialists storm their manors and roast them as food for welfare queens
I'm continually amazed you crazy motherfuckers ended up at the top of a global hegemony.
Being the only industrial power to emerge from WWII unscathed'll do that to ya.
I think that was pre-Senate career. Sounds like it's from Lies and the Lying Liars Who Tell Them.
Honestly that is probably more important, half of America could have been leveled in WW2 and we still would have had a better time recovering than Europe because of a combination of Texas oil and the massive merchant and military fleet after the war to allow for sticking America's mighty freedom loving cock into any resource rich orifice on the planet, willing or otherwise
That quote is from his 2003 book "Lies and the Lying Liars Who Tell Them: A Fair and Balanced Look at the Right"
Luckily, he has not lost his charm
Pretty much everyone will see their take-home pay go down starting January 1, though it will be loosely in proportion to how much you make. People who make little money will see their paychecks drop by a small amount. People who make lots of money will see their paychecks drop by a larger amount. Few people will see their take-home drop by such a large margin that it will dramatically affect them.
Basically, remember what tax rates were like in the 90s? That is what they'll be like, discounting the AMT stuff. It's not really the end-result of the tax rates that are troublesome so much as the abrupt-ish shift, just like dropping from 60mph to 55mph isn't a huge deal unless you do it in a half-second, then there's a bit of a bump.
Nevertheless, Wall Street will lose their shit, because they lose their shit over every goddamn thing. That's the bigger problem here, as I see it, if the Fiscal Cliff Slope happens - Wall Street flipping out could cause some problems.