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[Stand Your Ground] II: Florida Boogaloo
AngelHedgie
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
What do you know, once again, Florida's Stand Your Ground law has tragic consequences. Already, the accused has forwarded a SYG defense claiming that he had a shotgun levelled at him, even though police did not find one in the vehicle the victim was in.
At what point do we look at this law and realize that not only does it not work, but it is endangering people?
At what point do we look at this law and realize that not only does it not work, but it is endangering people?
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This is a great endorsement for minding your own fucking business and staying out of other peoples'.
oh. wait.
At least he didn't leave the county after seeing on the news that someone actually died and... oh wait
But he turned himself in after all that right? 'Cause that's what innocent people do.
WELP
Isolated incident right? I mean it can't possibly be because of a ridiculously vague law that these things keep happening in florida...
pleasepaypreacher.net
Dude totally stood his ground though.
pleasepaypreacher.net
Lesson learned from this article? Don't argue with pissed off strangers. Things like this happen everday and outside of Florida.
pleasepaypreacher.net
They really don't.
Other lesson learned: if you've screwed up and shot someone, shoot his friends too. As long as there's no survivors you're standing your ground.
Or even if it's 1-on-1 and you haven't shot him yet, if there's no one looking? Go ahead and shoot him.
This is apparently either the dude's words, or his lawyer's
This is presented as "Evidence" for why Dunn felt "threatened" along with the allegation that they leveled a shotgun at him and were playing loud music and cursing.
But I mean really. It is 2012, and that sentence is said with the intention that it is reasonable evidence for being afraid.
There were at least four black men in that SUV!
Hoooo boy
Because seriously.
I'd be totally justified in capping their threatening asses, right?
I got a little excited when I saw your ship.
Took a handgun safety course a few years ago because a friend wanted company and it was interesting and pretty sensible....until we got to this:
"Two things, first if you are pointing a gun at a criminal do not hesitate to shoot because he's a bad guy and he won't hesitate to get it away from you."
Hey, probably good advice. If you're pointing a gun at a person you should definitely be ready to shoot or you have no business pointing it at somebody. Then he went on:
"...and remember, if somebody breaks into your home and you do have to shoot....You only want there to be one witness."
What, one witness what does he mean.....WOA, WAIT A MINUTE.
Commended NRA instructor there.
Is that a position anyone is actually taking here?
You might tell your teacher that your dog ate your homework, but you still wouldn't have done it even if Pooch wasn't there.
I also believe it would get rid of another needless hurdle in the path of obtaining justice for people who are the victims of assholes with a severe case of Deathwish syndrome.
These people don't understand the responsibility of gun ownership. Ironically, I'm coming more and more to the opinion that NRA membership should be grounds for revoking someone's 2nd amendment rights.
I guess in hypothetical fantasy land this results in the gun being flashed, the criminals quaking in fear until the cops show up and commend the citizen for being awesome.
So far it seems we get criminals shooting at random being exonerated and lots of dead teenagers (who might, completely randomly, be black.)
The law doesn't really change this.
I think the law is kinda dumb myself, as it is unnecessary to protect a gun owner's rights to own a gun and a person's right to self defense.
But saying that this law is why people are shooting. In both this case and the Martin case you have idiots who see black, think criminal, shoot first, plead self defense later.
The law was written to protect these honorable men from the liberal injustice of other people's rights. Should the law be nerfed or tanked completely? Of course. Is the law the reason people are shooting each other? Of course it isn't.
The same logic would tell us that legal abortion has increased the number of abortions and that legal gay marriage is going to turn us all gay.
I guess we just don't agree on the existence of their self control. I mean, I want to change or get rid of the law, don't get me wrong. I'm just not convinced that it does anything other than give these jags an excuse.
Well one is a cause and the other isn't. Simple enough to figure out I thought.
What I'm saying is that I think that Trayvon Martin and Jordan Davis would still be dead even if SYG didn't exist.
If a dude I hate insults me and I use that as an excuse to punch him....the insult didn't cause the punch to be thrown but it's use as an excuse lowered the bar for the punch to be thrown.
I think what your opposition here is saying that the SYG law did was lower the bar for these kinds of shooting to happen.
I certainly don't think we wouldn't have gotten any of these shootings without SYG but I think it being there made people more likely to escalate to pulling a gun.
SYG makes the aftermath of a murder more complicated for the prosecutor, I haven't seen a case made that it makes people more likely to shoot in the first place.
Please to provide any evidence to support this conclusion
The feeling threatened part may well have a racial component but that isn't the excuse, that's the "that I hate" part. It may be ultimately why the trigger was pulled but the SYG removed one of the barriers that stopped it from happening.
I don't understand why that's such a strange idea.
I agree it would be unlikely to expect your average dude on the street to understand what SYG means with regards to his responsibilities for self defense. Gun guys, the kind who carry concealed, will have a super firm grasp of when they can shoot somebody. Removing "Duty to retreat" absolutely lowers the standard and increases the scenarios where they can just shoot people and feel they fulfilled their obligations legally (and hence, feel they were morally justified and it was an acceptable action.)
That's funny, because I think you guys need to spend some time around gun nuts.
A big part of conviction/enforcement is deterrence.
If the SYG laws stop murderers from getting convicted, similar murderers will not be deterred by the fear of conviction.
That means they cause shootings to happen.