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How does one acquire "goals?"
silence1186
Character shields down!As a wingmanRegistered User regular
Character shields down!As a wingmanRegistered User regular
Or, are goals something everyone even needs?
Hello H/A. I guess the easiest way to explain my problem is that I am stuck firmly at the safety tier of Maslow's hierarchy of needs; I have zero desire for anything out of life at the moment. I'm a young man, and yet I don't have anything else I want to accomplish to the point that I'm ready to die. I don't mean this in a depressed/suicidal way at all; rather, I simply mean I can't imagine being upset if a doctor told me tomorrow I had cancer and six months left to live. There just isn't anything I'm burning with desire to do or see; rather, my life is an endless series of past times (literally, I'm just killing time), jumping from book to TV series to movie to game and so on. Between my local library and Hulu or similar, I have no shortage of affordable entertainment options, with my big splurge being $15 a week towards a game.
Since it seems relevant, I am a doorman by trade. My job basically consists of standing in complete silence other than trite pleasantries for 2-4 hours at a time, occasionally doing light manual labor helping people. I am in a union, and have very good job stability short of a major fuck up on my part that I don't really anticipate. I can pay the taxes on my house, utilities (lights, heat, water, internet, I don't think I'm forgetting something), food, clothing, a cell phone, and basically save the rest of my income as insurance against unforeseen emergencies.
So, I guess what I'm asking is this:
Do I even have a problem? Or is this existential angst that is insulting in the face of people with real problems (in which case I am so sorry for wasting your time)?
Hello H/A. I guess the easiest way to explain my problem is that I am stuck firmly at the safety tier of Maslow's hierarchy of needs; I have zero desire for anything out of life at the moment. I'm a young man, and yet I don't have anything else I want to accomplish to the point that I'm ready to die. I don't mean this in a depressed/suicidal way at all; rather, I simply mean I can't imagine being upset if a doctor told me tomorrow I had cancer and six months left to live. There just isn't anything I'm burning with desire to do or see; rather, my life is an endless series of past times (literally, I'm just killing time), jumping from book to TV series to movie to game and so on. Between my local library and Hulu or similar, I have no shortage of affordable entertainment options, with my big splurge being $15 a week towards a game.
Since it seems relevant, I am a doorman by trade. My job basically consists of standing in complete silence other than trite pleasantries for 2-4 hours at a time, occasionally doing light manual labor helping people. I am in a union, and have very good job stability short of a major fuck up on my part that I don't really anticipate. I can pay the taxes on my house, utilities (lights, heat, water, internet, I don't think I'm forgetting something), food, clothing, a cell phone, and basically save the rest of my income as insurance against unforeseen emergencies.
So, I guess what I'm asking is this:
Do I even have a problem? Or is this existential angst that is insulting in the face of people with real problems (in which case I am so sorry for wasting your time)?
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I think it's really a question of how happy you are in your life. It's okay if you're content. If you're not, then you should consider speaking with a therapist.
Personally, I went through a fairly tough stretch of years after I went mostly deaf in my right ear. Not because of the hearing loss itself - that was frustrating and disturbing initially, but I got used to it (and the godawful ringing in my ear) within a few months. My problem was that my main goal in life had always been to work in some form of law enforcement, or something similar. I had just finished college, was far along in the application process for the Chicago PD and had a conditional job offer from the CIA pending passing a polygraph exam - in other words, I was extremely close to getting to do what I'd wanted to for most of my life. And then I woke up one morning with a funny ringing in my ear that just wouldn't go away, and eventually got the diagnosis that made me physically ineligible for both jobs. I spent years after that just putzing around and marking time at jobs that were tolerable, but just could not set my mind to any new goals larger than "get all the trophies for game X." I also suffered from a hell of a lot of depression off and on for years.
The only things that really helped were the birth of my son, and finally taking some serious pastry classes and coming to the realization that going into baking/pastry at this point in my life is actually feasible. I have all sorts of new goals related to caring for my son and seeing to his development, as well as a new career goal for the first time in nearly a decade. And you know what? I feel a lot better. I'm doing a lot better. Engaging in actual goal-oriented behavior has generally enriched nearly all aspects of my life.
So long story short, yes, goals are something that everyone needs. There should be a wealth of information out there about developing goals and engaging in goal-oriented behavior. Honestly though, you should consider scheduling a session with a therapist. I know you said you don't mean this in a depressed/suicidal way, but there are plenty of ways to be depressed without being suicidal, or without even realizing that what you're experiencing is a form of depression. Think about a session with a psychologist or a licensed clinical social worker - someone who is trained in working with people who need some help in developing and pursuing goals. Even if you truly aren't depressed, they'll still have the proper training to help you with your lack of goals.
If you've got spare time and a little money, doing past times that help you create something might inspire you to thinking about goals you'd like to achieve. So right now I'd quite like to get to the point where people start leaving comments on the site (showing that people actually read it) or if I put a drawing up there getting some good feedback on it. They're not lofty goals, but it gives me a bit of a reason to do things.
Personally I hang most of my goals in professional development as it has the potential to directly improve my and my family's lifestyle. I also have social goals (make sure to hang out with each of my longterm friends at least once a month), though that's more of an ongoing task so as not to let my social circle get too small. Goals can have degrees; I have a general goal of "eating better" but I need something more compartmentalized to feel I'm making progress (no more than 3 pints if I hang out, don't eat out more than 3 times a week, eat a big salad every night with dinner). Goals can be free-form and squishy, like I actively seek political discussion IRL with people who disagree with me, with the intent of not keeping myself in an echo chamber.
You don't need goals if you're well-adjusted and your needs are met, but setting and achieving goals will make you a more capable and "better" person.
Also, no matter what state you are in, most people (men, in my estimation) will feel it isn't right. They don't want to be static, even if static is great. My father wrote a book on it (to be published posthumously 2013 hopefully) from an evolutionary biologist perspective (my father was department head of MCB, among other lofty roles).
And hey... at the very least, easy goal! Talk to therapist. Achievement... umm.. unlock-able!
What are your past hobbies? What were things you used to like to do? What interests you? Have you went to college?
If you have a thing for computers then goto school for a computer science degree. Get out of that rut you're in. On your free time, look for what it is you may enjoy doing. You say you buy games here and there, qnd you're at this site so maybe game development is something you may like but judging from what you're telling us, it would most likely be a bad idea sicne game develpment is a very stressful career choice and you don't want to be at it your whole life.
You have to find something that interests you, there's always at least one thing that interests us, you need to find it.
When you've made it past the first two rungs of Maslow's hierarchy and are then content to just wait for death, that indicates there's something wrong. Depression does not necessitate feeling sad. In fact, it often doesn't involve feelings of sadness at all, but rather a complete lack of motivation. He made be satisfied, I don't know him and can't say, but it's FAR more likely he's just majorly depressed and thinks he's satisfied.
i think that's a stage that many of us can find ourselves in if we step off the treadmill of daily life and take an objective look at our current situations. finding out that you're just living life is one thing - finding out you're content with that is completely different.
on the other hand, as folks here have pointed out, the impetus for a LOT of what people do stems from interactions and relationships with others. meet some people, hang out, find a life partner - suddenly a whole list of new priorities opens up.
Registered just for the Mass Effect threads | Steam: click ^^^ | Origin: curlyhairedboy
Absolutely, as I already pointed out in my reply, my life was(and still kind is)similar to his. Now that I have a girlfriend, I feel that I have more to able to achieve because I have her support. Which brings me to say this.
You aren't going to feel motivation for anything if you don't have support from at least one person. Support is something important to have when trying to find a goal that suits you or makes you happy. I suggest finding a girlfriend that has the same interests as you and supports you and go from there.
Re: Am I happy? I guess I'm not unhappy (I'm very fortunate and both realize and appreciate it), but at the same time I feel sort of empty and tired.
Re: Depression/professional help? I actually had fairly severe depression about 8 years ago, but 5 years of therapy across ~7 different doctors moved it from actively hating existing to the current complacency and boredom. So I wasn't really looking for MORE talk therapy. I don't know.
@Ketar: Thanks for the reading, I will look that up.
Re: Doing something creative: I'm not really a creative person, I can't write/draw/do anything computer related.
Re: Other people in my life: I don't really have a social circle to speak of, either girlfriend or just-friends. Usually I go to a hobby shop and draft Magic: the Gathering once a week (that is typically my 15$ splurge for the week) but I don't really have the time otherwise to go out.
My work schedule might shed some light. I leave for work at 1pm on Fri-Mon, getting home around 11:30pm, have dinner and read until ~1:30am, then go to bed. I am EXHAUSTED all the time, so I usually get out of bed by 12pm, eat breakfast, shower and make myself proper for work and run out the door. Tuesday I'm off, and I usually do errands during the day and have dinner with my family. Wednesday I try to sleep in as late as possible since I leave for work at 9pm and return 7:30am on Thursday. I then sleep all day, and do my one social thing for the week. Then it loops around and repeats.
I have a handful of friends with similar interests, but they live far away, have busy lives, and I don't want to overwhelm them with constant contact to do stuff lest they shun me for being smothering.
@tysonrss: My hobbies is a typical geek suite. Final Fantasy and similar video games, Magic: the Gathering, lots of sci-fi/fantasy reading/watching, etc. I don't really have things that I like to do or that interests me. I did go to college, but dropped out due to above mentioned depression. Even though I got the depression under control, my ambition never came back, as I was extremely motivated and ambitious in high school. Attempts to finish college since have proved pointless and wasteful.
I've never really considered getting a girlfriend. I mean, I like women, I've just never conceived of it practically as a thing I could do given my mental state. I wouldn't want to spend time with me.
Thanks again for all the responses.
The thing is, just existing is not really living. You can do it, you can probably do it for ever, but that doesn't necessarily mean you should.
EDIT: not saying that it can't be depression, but a few years ago I was tired all the time to the point of taking 1-2 hour naps during the day every 3-4 hours. Sorted out a diet change, cut out some carbohydrates and got more protein into my diet, and I'm now feeling fine.
@Dhalpir: I wouldn't say I'm sleeping continuously. It's usually like fall asleep 2:30am, wake up 7:30 when family leaves for various respective jobs, maybe sleep from 8a - 10/11a, and then lay awake in bed collecting thoughts for the day before I get up proper. There might not even be 8 hours in the whole cycle.
@Sentry: At the beginning of my series of therapist visits, I took anti-depressants, but I was extremely hyper on them to the point of frightening people I knew. I don't know that it's an option for me.
Well there are a lot of different types of anti-depressants, many people who take them go through several different ones to find the ones that work. Though your type of problem sounds a lot like my boyfriend's, basically he would sleep all day and not do anything if he could, but it's not full on clinical depression, just melancholy. But if he makes sure to avoid the sugar and caffeine and eat lots of healthy snacks throughout the day and get some DDR or weightlifting in as well, then his mood and energy get better without any drugs at all.
Also it seems like the night shift is really screwing with you, maybe try using a sunlamp to help fix your clock?
The problem with giving advice about this kind of stuff over the internet is that everything we are getting is being filtered through your own understanding of the situation. While we can certainly get the facts, ask questions and consider your answers, it's hard to challenge or explore the way you are really experiencing your life (even if we are qualified. Which I am certainly not, just fyi). Talking to a therapist will help you figure out what is really going on.
For example, you said you have no goals; people asked if it's bothering you; and you answered that you don't think so. But this is only useful if you can actually understand and accurately describe what you are feeling, which is much harder than it sounds. The fact that you even made this thread probably means you feel like something might be wrong, and I think you owe it to yourself to at least explore the issue with a professional.
Re: Vitamin D? I only do the overnight shift once a week, so I'm awake during daylight hours for a decent amount of time most days. Since I'm at the door, I can always pop outside and bask in the sun if need be. It's something to consider, I suppose.
@Telex I'm not really sure myself why I made this thread. I guess I was wondering if I might be able to change, or feel differently than I do now, or if I was worrying over nothing. Am I OK being the way I am forever, or could I feel the things and obtain the relationships people around me feel and have? Is there something wrong with the physiology of my brain or how the circumstances of my life shaped me that would forever prevent me from realizing those feelings and relationships? Is self-actualization actually impossible?
Thanks again to all for reading.
Ergh.
Getting into a relationship as a mechanism to fix some unrelated personal problem is, IMHO, an idea fraught with peril. While in the short term, it may provide some kind of external motivation for you, it's ultimately just that - external motivation. Which means that your own motivation is contingent on having this other person in your life (and not just in your life, but actively providing that motivation). The thing is, it's not a significant other's job to provide motivation for you. If you get into a situation like that, you're basically in a state of codependency. And codependency is not a healthy basis for building a relationship or helping yourself through a problem.
It is a coping skill that many, many people use to put a band-aid on their problems, but it almost always never results in a permanent improvement for either party.
You opened the thread with "I'm pretty much OK with not having goals; is it inherently bad to not have goals?" But then:
Thoughts like this one are pretty indicative that you're not completely happy with your situation, and that it's not just a lack of goals that's an issue in your life. That is, you're not OK with being the way you are now.
This is a good question to be asking. However, it doesn't have an easy answer. You ask:
"Is there something wrong with the physiology of my brain"
We, and maybe even you, will probably never know the answer to this question, because we don't understand how the brain works well enough to tell you this. It is possible that your situation has a physical component, though it's hard to say that there is something "wrong" with your brain's physiology. There may be something "different" or "atypical" that predisposes you one way or the other, but if it's not causing severe negative consequences in your life then it's hard to cast it as "wrong."
The other problem is that we have only the crudest tools to measure and change the physical state of the brain. It may be that antidepressants really do make your brain act in a way that is "more typical" and result in improvements in your life. It may be that changes to your diet/exercise regime/personal patterns also have a physical effect on your brain that results in improvements in your life. But only you can try these things out and find out for yourself whether they work or not. You mentioned that you tried antidepressants once and they didn't help/things got worse. However, like I said, these are crude tools, and what works best for one person might not work best for another. It's entirely possible a different regimen would produce vastly different effects. But again, you have to commit to some medically-supervised experimentation in order to find this out for yourself.
As you mentioned, there may also be a psychological component. In this case, remember that brains are pretty plastic, and self-actualization is something you might want to practice at.
I spend most of my time around Maslow levels 4 (Esteem) and 5 (Self-Actualization). It's pretty great. I don't know if it's better or worse than not feeling the need for these things, as I don't have experience with that phenomenon. But I can tell you it's not a bad place to be, objectively.
I'd do a follow up question and ask, would you even like friends?
Satans..... hints.....
I'm actually conflicted on this. On the one hand, of course. I'd like people to talk to, have fun with, meaningfully interact with. People who would seek out my company out of the blue, rather than leave me agonizing over whether it's too soon to attempt to make plans with someone (again) or if I'm smothering someone. On the other hand, my head is filled simultaneously with competing thoughts of misanthropy and empathy. I jump between having no faith in people and believing solitude is the only option for me, and having abundant love for people and just wanting someone to share my heart with. It's exhausting, I feel like there's two people inside my head who feel the opposite about everything.
Hi, this is me. For me, the answer is pretty much always medication.. after being on and off for years, this is something I've come to accept. It turns out that when I'm properly medicated I don't feel particularly misanthropic, but I also don't get those moments where oh God I want somebody but I just talked to them maybe they're bored I need people. My natural state seems to be "If there are people and I feel like being around them that's okay, but I'm not going out of my way." It is so, so much better than the oscillating extremes I experience when left to my own, and it's comfortable for me.
I am really glad that SOMEBODY brought up the idea that getting into a relationship cannot fix your problems. It can't. It can mask them for a little while, but it's not a healthy thing to do. Getting an SO is nice if there's someone you like and want to be with, but as a solution to a problem it's maybe one of the worst you could come up with. No one wants to be relied upon that way except people who are kind of sketchy to begin with.
Ok. I would have said keep truckin' how you are, if you didn't answer this like you did. You have a want right there, from wants you make goals. But it seems to me like you do need some therapy to put down these false walls. But hey, you've found something you want!
Satans..... hints.....
You don't need x number of friends, or to spend a minimum of [time] with family, as we're all different in how much socializing we need. Some people need no socialization, although this is a very small number and the fact that you enjoy seeing your family and playing Magic makes me think that you are someone who appreciates some level of socialization. I'm not sure why you think you may be smothering people, and to be helpful, most people will make it clear when you're trying to spend too much time with them. The way you describe your interactions with friends and family makes me think you have some problems with anxiety, especially your description of how you oscillate between misanthropy and empathy.
I'm not a professional by any stretch of the imagination, but I think part of your confusion is that your goals at this stage in your life appear to be internal, rather than external, and it's not easy to work on internal goals when you're generally alone. Your big internal goal is "how do I motivate myself to do anything?"
Almost a year ago I was in a situation where I was depressed and needed medication, but I was afraid to try a new drug because the last one didn't work at all and made me slightly nauseous all the time. I waffled over it, constantly putting it off, thinking I could get better with sleep and exercise and whatever, but I was stuck in a downward spiral of worsening anxiety. Finally my doctor sat me down and said, "Look, I'm going to do the mom thing and write you this prescription, and you're going to take it. We'll adjust if we have to." Within a month I felt better than I could remember feeling in years. It didn't change who I was, but it controlled the anxiety I couldn't control on my own, and my passion for life returned with a vengeance. I felt like I was rediscovering all sorts of cool things I'd forgotten existed.
tl;dr: Sometimes you just need to try a different drug. Also, reluctance to take medication can itself be a symptom of depression and/or anxiety.
Also, if you don't already have a primary care physician, get one. It's infinitely better than seeing whomever's available that day.
Registered just for the Mass Effect threads | Steam: click ^^^ | Origin: curlyhairedboy
I remain a very lazy person (also it's cold now and I hate the cold), but I'll see what I can do about maybe just running a mile or two a day at the least. Not sure if I'd be able to do weights and exercises and such.
I still have no idea how to meet and befriend people, like at all, but I don't think it's possible before addressing the above points (more the first). Cart and horse and all that.
That said, I'd like to stress just how much I appreciate people's feedback, and especially your questions. I felt I was able to learn quite a bit about myself and what's been bothering me lately because of the many insightful questions asked in here.
Much obliged, kindly strangers of the internet.