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Arab Spring 2: Arab Spring-ier

LanglyLangly Registered User regular
SPRING.jpg
The Arab Spring is a revolutionary wave of demonstrations, protests, and wars occurring in the Arab world that began on 18 December 2010.
To date, rulers have been forced from power in Tunisia, Egypt, Libya, and Yemen; civil uprisings have erupted in Bahrain and Syria; major protests have broken out in Algeria, Iraq, Jordan, Kuwait, Morocco, and Sudan; and minor protests have occurred in Lebanon, Mauritania, Oman, Saudi Arabia, Djibouti, and Western Sahara. The major oil rich nations (Saudi Arabia, UAE, Qatar, Kuwait and Oman) have been able to keep their ruling families in power.

So Egypt, the poster child of the Arab Spring, is currently in the middle of kicking out the democratically elected replacement for their previous leader, because he recently made a declaration that "Actually, being a dictator would be pretty awesome. I'm going to do that instead."
President Morsi will soon issue a decision for the participation of the armed forces in the duties of maintaining security and protection of vital state institutions until the constitution is approved and legislative elections are finished,” Al Ahram reported, suggesting that martial law would last until at least February.

While protests have been running wild, things may quiet down if he decides to seriously combat the protesters, since even though Mubarak employed some strong arm tactics in 2010, he never actually ordered martial law. This was in part because the standing army was actually more loyal to the citizens than to Mubarak, although not necessarily true of the police force. Things could be different with a new head of state.

I'm completely ignorant of the intricacies of all of this crazy stuff, so I am making this thread so people will educate me!

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    Lost SalientLost Salient blink twice if you'd like me to mercy kill youRegistered User regular
    I would be all about this if I wasn't staring at the internet through booze-colored glasses.

    As it is, I make a point of not offering uncensored internet opinions of any kind, but especially not of the drunk kind. So you will have to wait, thread. Until tomorrow.

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    "Sandra has a good solid anti-murderer vibe. My skin felt very secure and sufficiently attached to my body when I met her. Also my organs." HAIL SATAN
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    FyndirFyndir Registered User regular
    I would be all about this if I wasn't staring at the internet through booze-colored glasses.

    As it is, I make a point of not offering uncensored internet opinions of any kind, but especially not of the drunk kind. So you will have to wait, thread. Until tomorrow.

    I don't wanna wait. :(

    Gimme all those sweet, sweet uncensored drunken opinions.

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    TaskmanTaskman Registered User regular
    I am willing to offer a semi-inebriated opinion: Morsi sounds like a greedy tosser.

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    OghulkOghulk Tinychat Janitor TinychatRegistered User regular
    people are fucking crazy

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    B_RB_R Registered User regular
    I hope the egyptian people can sort that out and establish a stable democracy.

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    101101 Registered User regular
    I am really not sure what Morsi is trying to do. Is he just being really heavy handed in getting the constitution done and moving on from there? Or just making a power grab?

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    LanglyLangly Registered User regular
    101 wrote: »
    I am really not sure what Morsi is trying to do. Is he just being really heavy handed in getting the constitution done and moving on from there? Or just making a power grab?

    When you start saying stuff like "I give myself all powers in order to protect the revolution"

    you've left democracy station and are headed straight to king-ville.

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    mensch-o-maticmensch-o-matic Registered User regular
    werent people also worried that the egyptian military would try a coup if pressed? is there any basis to these fears?

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    HobnailHobnail Registered User regular
    Morsi making a move like that is hard on my head. He seemed pretty politically savvy, what with getting elected and the mediation between Israel and Hamas...declaring himself dictator is just such an obviously inflammatory and deconstructive move.

    Unless he can get away with it.

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    XehalusXehalus Registered User regular
    a lot of Egyptians hate America and see Morsi as a puppet

    a lot of Egyptians are like whatever just give me my freedom

    there isn't room for both in the sandbox

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    LanglyLangly Registered User regular
    edited December 2012
    werent people also worried that the egyptian military would try a coup if pressed? is there any basis to these fears?

    About the military? I mean, they pretty much had to be forced to allow democratic elections after mubarak was displaced, it took a while.

    But do you mean about this current thing? Like, basis to the fears of Morsi? Because, he's already done it. He made a declaration giving him supreme powers and made opposing his leadership a crime.

    It's under the auspices of being about the creation of a new constitution.

    Langly on
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    BroloBrolo Broseidon Lord of the BroceanRegistered User regular
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    JayKaosJayKaos Registered User regular
    I don't think I've heard any details on exactly what powers Morsi grabbed for himself, anyone have a handy article/explanation or was it just "okay I'm in charge of everything now deal w/ it" ?

    Steam | SW-0844-0908-6004 and my Switch code
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    FandyienFandyien But Otto, what about us? Registered User regular
    JayKaos wrote: »
    JayKaos wrote: »
    I don't think I've heard any details on exactly what powers Morsi grabbed for himself, anyone have a handy article/explanation or was it just "okay I'm in charge of everything now deal w/ it" ?

    my understanding is he's suspended judicial review, basically, citing holdover judges from the mubarak era

    as to whether or not he's seriously just trying to purge old elements or just consolidating his power i dunno

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    FandyienFandyien But Otto, what about us? Registered User regular
    also did someone say...springier

    Springy.gif

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    LanglyLangly Registered User regular
    JayKaos wrote: »
    I don't think I've heard any details on exactly what powers Morsi grabbed for himself, anyone have a handy article/explanation or was it just "okay I'm in charge of everything now deal w/ it" ?
    On 22 November 2012, Morsi issued a declaration purporting to protect the work of the constituent assembly drafting the new constitution from judicial interference. In effect, this declaration immunises his actions from any legal challenge. The decree states that it only applies until a new constitution is ratified.[48] The declaration also requires a retrial of those accused in the Mubarak-era killings of protesters, who had been acquitted, and extends the mandate of the constituent assembly by two months. Additionally, the declaration authorizes Morsi to take any measures necessary to protect the revolution. Liberal and secular groups walked out of the constitutional constituent assembly because they believed that it would impose strict Islamic practices, while members of the Muslim Brotherhood supported Morsi.[49]

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    XehalusXehalus Registered User regular
    everybody wants to rule the world

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    ScolbertScolbert Registered User regular
    i like that morsi is saying that same transition to democracy stuff nasser said

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    JayKaosJayKaos Registered User regular
    Okay, so it's a bit less extreme than I thought, but definitely problematic.

    Steam | SW-0844-0908-6004 and my Switch code
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    BroloBrolo Broseidon Lord of the BroceanRegistered User regular
    It's still pretty extreme, suspending judicial oversight is a drastic step that can easily be abused.

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    LanglyLangly Registered User regular
    JayKaos wrote: »
    Okay, so it's a bit less extreme than I thought, but definitely problematic.

    I mean, I don't know what you mean by less extreme when that statement literally gives him all government authority for an indefinite period of time, until a document that he has control over is written.

    For example he is about to put Egypt in a state of martial law to end the protests.

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    JayKaosJayKaos Registered User regular
    I'm not saying it's not extreme, someone earlier had phrased the "immunity to legal challenges" in a way that made me think he had made any complaints about what he was doing treason.

    Steam | SW-0844-0908-6004 and my Switch code
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    ScolbertScolbert Registered User regular
    its less extreme now that i know he didint issue the declaration while sky diving

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    StericaSterica Yes Registered User, Moderator mod
    It seems profoundly unwise to establish yourself as godking when your predecessor was disposed by angry mobs a scant few years prior.

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    LanglyLangly Registered User regular
    JayKaos wrote: »
    I'm not saying it's not extreme, someone earlier had phrased the "immunity to legal challenges" in a way that made me think he had made any complaints about what he was doing treason.

    the declaration does do that.

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    LanglyLangly Registered User regular
    Langly wrote: »
    JayKaos wrote: »
    I'm not saying it's not extreme, someone earlier had phrased the "immunity to legal challenges" in a way that made me think he had made any complaints about what he was doing treason.

    the declaration does do that.

    oh sorry, not the declaration, but the constitution that the Muslim Brotherhood is now writing alone with Morsi does this.

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    PreciousBodilyFluidsPreciousBodilyFluids Registered User regular
    Rorus Raz wrote: »
    It seems profoundly unwise to establish yourself as godking when your predecessor was disposed by angry mobs a scant few years prior.

    Yeah, this. I'm not sure what he expected to happen. People have just shown everyone they're not cool with dictators. So recently after successfully overthrowing one, thus knowing that they have that power, it seems like the least likely moment they'd accept a powergrab like this.

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    Tommy2HandsTommy2Hands what is this where am i Registered User regular
    i want to optimistic here and say that once the constitution is figured out judicial review will be returned and things will get smoother

    but who fucking knows

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    PreciousBodilyFluidsPreciousBodilyFluids Registered User regular
    i want to optimistic here and say that once the constitution is figured out judicial review will be returned and things will get smoother

    but who fucking knows

    When dudes in power do things like this, it's probably wise to not be too optimistic about their intentions.

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    Tommy2HandsTommy2Hands what is this where am i Registered User regular
    i want to optimistic here and say that once the constitution is figured out judicial review will be returned and things will get smoother

    but who fucking knows

    When dudes in power do things like this, it's probably wise to not be too optimistic about their intentions.

    yeaah

    :c

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    JayKaosJayKaos Registered User regular
    Morsi probably figured that since he did win the election, he had enough popular support to avoid getting Mubarak'ed, which may still be true depending how things go in the next few weeks.

    Steam | SW-0844-0908-6004 and my Switch code
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    PeccaviPeccavi Registered User regular
    I'm sure that Chancellor Palpatine will voluntarily relinquish his emergency powers once the war is over.

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    Caulk Bite 6Caulk Bite 6 One of the multitude of Dans infesting this place Registered User regular
    JayKaos wrote: »
    Morsi probably figured that since he did win the election, he had enough popular support to avoid getting Mubarak'ed, which may still be true depending how things go in the next few weeks.

    I'd heard he'd gotten about 49% of the votes cast. While sizable at nearly half the population, I'm pretty sure the slightly over half that didn't vote for him might be a little bothered by it.

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    HobnailHobnail Registered User regular
    It's hard to figure that Morsi was too inept to anticipate the shitstorm, so he must think he can weather it.

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    PreciousBodilyFluidsPreciousBodilyFluids Registered User regular
    JayKaos wrote: »
    Morsi probably figured that since he did win the election, he had enough popular support to avoid getting Mubarak'ed, which may still be true depending how things go in the next few weeks.

    I'd heard he'd gotten about 49% of the votes cast. While sizable at nearly half the population, I'm pretty sure the slightly over half that didn't vote for him might be a little bothered by it.

    Since I don't believe "also I'll be the new dictator now" was part of his campaign, there might also be a lot of people who did vote for him bothered by it.

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    TheySlashThemTheySlashThem Registered User regular
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    AntimatterAntimatter Devo Was Right Gates of SteelRegistered User regular
    Fandyien wrote: »
    also did someone say...springier

    Springy.gif

    NO SPRINGS!

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    satansfingerssatansfingers Registered User regular
    it's really more winter right now

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    Centipede DamascusCentipede Damascus Registered User regular
    it's always spring or summer when you're that close to the equator

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    JayKaosJayKaos Registered User regular
    JayKaos wrote: »
    Morsi probably figured that since he did win the election, he had enough popular support to avoid getting Mubarak'ed, which may still be true depending how things go in the next few weeks.

    I'd heard he'd gotten about 49% of the votes cast. While sizable at nearly half the population, I'm pretty sure the slightly over half that didn't vote for him might be a little bothered by it.

    Since I don't believe "also I'll be the new dictator now" was part of his campaign, there might also be a lot of people who did vote for him bothered by it.

    Very true- I'd be very interested to see if there were any polls on how the election would go if they had to re-do it, but with the state of the country I doubt any information like that could be trusted one way or the other.

    Steam | SW-0844-0908-6004 and my Switch code
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