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Fighting a speed ticket in Netherlands
whatever61
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
Hello all from Belgium,
I've recently received two fines from Netherlands for speed violations by camera radars.
Both happened on the same road. If it would happen once, I would think I did something wrong, but since it hapenned twice and I am paying attention to speed limits, I am sure that there's something wrong on their side.
There are couple of arguments that I want to present in my appeal:
1. This is the major point, I've received the fines 4 months after they occurred!! which doesn't give me a fair appeal, because who remembers what happened on some road 4 months ago?? So how can I get a fair appeal now? Does someone know what is the legal timeframe by when you should receive the fine? isn't it something around 14 days? And it wasn't delayed on the post, the date of issue is already 4 months after. Note that I am from Belgium and the event occurred in Netherlands.
2. The signs are very confusing in the area, the road is 5 lines and it suddenly drops the speed limit to 100kmh (instead of the regular 130kmh), while I was driving 124kmh. Morever, Nethlerlands at some points of the road, has some unique signs that do not exist in Belgium - like small signs along the way inside them they show the speed limit. if you don't know about these signs you will likely not notice them at all.
3. The second event occurred 2 months after the first event. If I would receive the fine by then (within 14 days), I would be extra careful on this road and drive extra slow, but since I didn't I received double fine on the same road, which is really annoying.
Please let me know if you find these arguments good enough and if you can share any other arguments I can add to this appeal.
Also if you're not familiar with the laws of Netherlands/Belgium, still share your opinion please!
Thanks.
I've recently received two fines from Netherlands for speed violations by camera radars.
Both happened on the same road. If it would happen once, I would think I did something wrong, but since it hapenned twice and I am paying attention to speed limits, I am sure that there's something wrong on their side.
There are couple of arguments that I want to present in my appeal:
1. This is the major point, I've received the fines 4 months after they occurred!! which doesn't give me a fair appeal, because who remembers what happened on some road 4 months ago?? So how can I get a fair appeal now? Does someone know what is the legal timeframe by when you should receive the fine? isn't it something around 14 days? And it wasn't delayed on the post, the date of issue is already 4 months after. Note that I am from Belgium and the event occurred in Netherlands.
2. The signs are very confusing in the area, the road is 5 lines and it suddenly drops the speed limit to 100kmh (instead of the regular 130kmh), while I was driving 124kmh. Morever, Nethlerlands at some points of the road, has some unique signs that do not exist in Belgium - like small signs along the way inside them they show the speed limit. if you don't know about these signs you will likely not notice them at all.
3. The second event occurred 2 months after the first event. If I would receive the fine by then (within 14 days), I would be extra careful on this road and drive extra slow, but since I didn't I received double fine on the same road, which is really annoying.
Please let me know if you find these arguments good enough and if you can share any other arguments I can add to this appeal.
Also if you're not familiar with the laws of Netherlands/Belgium, still share your opinion please!
Thanks.
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The section I made bold seems, to me, like you were over the speed limit for the area you were in, and have been given appropriate fines for that. I'm not sure that you have much cause to fight the tickets in those circumstances, but being unfamiliar with The Netherland's traffic laws I can't state that with certainty.
The best option is to check into the time frame that they can issue tickets and beyond that pay them and be more careful next time. It stinks but I don't think you have much to use as a defense in fighting these.
I dunno, there is probably a number you can call on the fine. Far as I know there's quite a large window for tickets to be issued here, so I don't believe you'd get much ground with this objection. On the other hand it is the best one you got. They have prevented you from making a case for yourself the best you can.
Well there are only a few small stretches where you can do 130 and I don't believe they take the area where the change happens as an area where they can check.
And yeah, you can't really use this as an excuse. Unfamiliarity with the signs does not change that they are very clear. Those little signs showing the speed-limit along the road are just reminders put on top of signs already there. The actual signs are the normal big signs with a red border and they're clear.
Won't work. You not being aware of a previous violation does not change the fact that you were clearly violating the law on the second occasion. Yeah sure you might've been more careful but also you were still driving too fast. Seriously, you're not even arguing that you didn't know the law (which already doesn't work), you're arguing that your carelessness should somehow get you out of a ticket?
If you're objecting I would sure as hell not include that.
Way I'm looking at it you don't really have a case. They're pretty good over here with proving their case and the best scenario you can hope for is that they dismiss or reduce it out of unwillingness to press the issue. (Tickets to foreigners are paid way less because it's more of a hassle.)
Pretty much all of your explanations are no good for trying to get out of a ticket. Ignorance of the law, etc. all that.
Most places in the US require 'Reduced Speed Ahead' signs placed a given distance ahead of any speed changes to prevent that exact issue. The lack of the 'Reduced Speed' sign (or insufficient distance between them) is grounds to dismiss the ticket.
It still doesn't prevent people from waiting until the last minute and bitching when they get clocked over the speed limit, but people are going to bitch no matter what. There are also probably plenty of places that don't have the correct signs and issue tickets anyway knowing that most people will just pay up, but what are you going to do?
I agree that the OP is pretty much screwed, and hasn't presented anything that sounds like grounds to dismiss a ticket. I don't know how it works in the Netherlands, but in the US you can plead guilty with an explanation, and if you admit guilt but give a decent excuse / explination and have a good driving record otherwise the judge might reduce the fine or suspend the points if you go X months without another violation. This is always worth trying, because a few points on your license can cost hundreds or thousands of dollars in insurance costs.
Thanks for the reply. Do you think then I should mention the fact of "lack of the 'Reduced Speed' sign as one of the arguments? even if it's from 130kmh to 100kmh?
In my case, there are no points in the license or stuff like that. Just a high fine.
Thanks for the detailed reply!
1. I understand that it might be according to their policies, but I also think that this is indeed the best one I have and to be honest I think it's a fair one. Because who can remember what happened 4 months ago at some road, especially since I wasn't even aware at that moment, that I got flashed, so I didn't try to memorize nor analyze it, at the moment itself, so what's the chance I can remember it after 4 months.. maybe I was actually driving 90kmh and they have a faulty radar (let's just assume). Do you think I would remember it now after 4 months? Nope.
2. 130kmh is the allowed speed on the highways of Netherlands so you have it on many roads, I think. About the signs, well.. if you're not living in Netherlands then probably there's no way you know about it. That the small signs are there to remind me. I also read one's that if there are no reminder signs in some period of time, then the ticket can be dismissed also (imagine you're driving for 10 minutes and by this time you might be not knowing anymore what is the speed limit in this area, unless it's the standard one for this area, which in this case was not.). In my case, since I wasn't aware of the unique Dutch signs, I didn't have the proper "reminder". I don't know how argumental it is, but it could create a sympathetic feeling perhaps..
3. Good point! I will remove this.
Are there any other points which I can include, however?
130 is only on a little under half of the roads (mostly in the north), the speed limit in most of the country is either 120 or 100 on highways. The weirdest part is that it can vary on the same stretch of road depending on weather or time of day and it's kinda hard to know which sign you're supposed to follow. (generally it's the temporary ones like the electronic signs and work-on-the-road signs)
If you're using it I'd say that you should go with being confused as to which sign to follow rather than saying you were unaware of the signs. (unawareness while driving is generally not a smart thing to claim)
You shouldn't have been traveling at 130 km/h, nevermind that it may have been legal for to do so in some areas.
The ender, why shouldn't I be traveling 130kmh where it's allowed? Are you my mom?
I think he already told you in his first paragraph.
I also don't see the connection to my original question in the thread to the advice he gave me..
ADVICE: If you don't have a good advice in the matter, it's better to not say anything, than to lecture someone with words like "pay up and be more careful next time". People don't appreciate this kind of smartass-ness. Did I ask if I should pay it up or not? no. I asked something specific in my question. So again, it might be that I should pay up, but THAT IS NOT WHAT THE THREAD IS ABOUT.
If you have an answer to my question that you can elaborate then post it, if you don't, don't answer irrelevant replies. They have no added value, only a negative one and in the end it results in some bashing and irrelevant posts to the thread, like this one (just couldn't hold it inside, when you had to smartass two times in one thread
Cheers.
I read your post and offered up advice. You're not getting out of the ticket. Pleading ignorance isn't going to do you any good and as I can see it you have no excuse for your driving error that a judge is going to care about.