Laminate floor behind dishwasher buckling -- update: replaced dishwasher, still leaking

Vi Monks

For the past few months, I've been having a problem with my floors (and a possibly related dishwasher issue, but I'll get to that). I have an interior wall that separates my kitchen from my living room. The dishwasher is up against this interior wall, and on the living room side, exactly behind the dishwasher, the laminate flooring has started to buckle (I think that's the term, anyway -- pictures are posted below). The affected areas started small but have been growing over the past couple months, with the buckling getting more pronounced. While cleaning, I accidentally peeled the top layer of laminate away, and the pulpy wood stuff underneath is noticeably damp.

As for the dishwasher, it has been making a sort of grinding noise about halfway through the cycle. The noise itself is cyclical -- it starts up, grows in volume for a second or two, then recedes, then starts up again a couple seconds later. As far as I've been able to tell, it still functions properly. Dishes still get clean, water drains promptly, etc. Some quick googling suggests that the dishwasher is leaking, and it's somehow getting underneath the floor, but I wanted to post here to see what you guys think. I'm definitely no expert when it comes to home repairs.

Here are the pictures of the floor. You can see that the top layer of the laminate has started to chip away at the seams, which are noticeably bulging. The second picture is of the part of the laminate that I accidentally peeled away and the wet wood underneath.

Pantshandshake

Well, clearly you have a leak. Since the floor is wet behind the dishwasher, my money says the dishwasher is the culprit.

If you're lucky, the leak involves gaskets below the dishwasher, you can remove the bottom... water spinny thing... and heating element to get in there. Otherwise, time to pull that dishwasher out.

zagdrob

It definitely sounds like your dishwasher is leaking.

Pull it out of its alcove and see how wet the floor is under the dishwasher. Look around and at the bottom of the dishwasher to see if you can find where the leak is coming from. It's possible that it's a hose / clamp or a seal that you can easily replace.

Once you pull out the dishwasher, you've got a bit of an issue with the floors. If you can find and stop the leak, dry out the area where you keep your dishwasher using towels and maybe a hair dryer. Go to Lowes, and get one of the desiccants that they sell - Damp Rid or something. It's a refillable cup that will absorb water and drip it into a larger container below. That should help dry out the area, check to make sure you don't have mold.

As for the floor, if you catch it in time you might be able to live with it. If it's not too bad, can you put a rug or furniture over the bad spot? You might be able to replace just that spot, if you have wood left from when the floor was installed, or can match closely. I haven't had much luck replacing wood but it's probably something you can hire someone to do for a reasonable price, if it's just that spot.

Donovan Puppyfucker

Laminate floating flooring like that is pretty simple to replace, and there shouldn't be a serious problem matching it, as the manufacturers tend to make two or maybe three 'grades' of planks, and each in a handful of colours at most. you just need to find out who your flooring is from, and once you fixed the leaking dishwasher, pull up a couple of planks, and replace them with new, non soggy items.

Vi Monks

I've talked to a few people who have some experience with dishwasher repair today, and they seem to think the motor's dying (mostly because of the noise). I'm trying to find a technician who will come give a free estimate on repairs, but I'm not sure that's going to happen. As for the floors, I just took an extra piece of the old flooring to Home Depot, and they couldn't identify the manufacturer or match it to anything they had in stock. The area is actually mostly covered with a rug (which is why it took me so long to notice the problem), so I wouldn't mind if the planks don't match perfectly. But unfortunately, my laminate is 6mm thickness, and I'm having trouble finding anything so thin at any of the big hardware stores. I might have enough scraps that the previous owner left behind to replace the affected planks, but it will be tight, and the pieces I have have already been cut, so I think I'd have to do some more cutting and glue the new pieces in rather than having them lock in like they're supposed to.

I did find a few places that sell 6mm laminate online, but they either have obscenely high shipping costs or require a few hundred square feet minimum. Anyone know of a good place where I can find just a few pieces of 6mm laminate? Redoing the floors completely is not really an option right now, unfortunately.

Edit: If I fix the leaking dishwasher, would I do any long term damage if I just left the messed up laminate there for a year or so? If I saved up for a while, I could probably afford to redo the floors completely.

zagdrob

If you are trying to match your flooring and it's not something you can easily find at Lowes / Home Depot, try a dedicated flooring / flooring supply store. Some carpet stores carry some flooring, but if you can find a dedicated laminate flooring store they should have exactly what you need.

I'd be surprised if you can get someone to come out and check on your dishwasher for free, try and just get an estimate for a motor / replacement over the phone and see if it's worth just replacing it. Between a leak and a bad motor, I'd probably lean towards replacement over repair.

Vi Monks

zagdrob wrote: »

If you are trying to match your flooring and it's not something you can easily find at Lowes / Home Depot, try a dedicated flooring / flooring supply store. Some carpet stores carry some flooring, but if you can find a dedicated laminate flooring store they should have exactly what you need.

I'd be surprised if you can get someone to come out and check on your dishwasher for free, try and just get an estimate for a motor / replacement over the phone and see if it's worth just replacing it. Between a leak and a bad motor, I'd probably lean towards replacement over repair.

Yeah, I'm also leaning towards replacement at this point. I'm getting quotes of $200-250+ for a new motor and installation. And I believe the dishwasher is a few years old now anyway (though it was here when we moved in, so I don't know exactly).

spool32

I wouldn't be so sure the dishwasher is actually leaking water, but it's definitely causing condensation or damp to get into the laminate so in terms of what to do it's pretty much the same either way. Replace the laminate, repair or replace the dishwasher.

You won't harm anything by leaving the damaged laminate there for as long as it takes you to get around to repairing it or replacing the floor.

Vi Monks

I only thought this was over! So we replaced the dishwasher, hoping everything would be fixed. Today, I ran a couple loads of laundry and noticed that the problem spot on the floor was noticeably wet. It seems odd to me though, as the washing machine isn't that close to the leak. My kitchen is a narrow rectangle. At the far end is the washer and dryer. To the right of the dryer is the refrigerator, and next to that is the dishwasher (and, as I said in the op, the leak is next to the interior wall behind the dishwasher). So the washing machine is a good eight-ten feet away from where I'm seeing water. I don't see any water underneath or behind the washing machine, nor on the wall where the various water lines hook up to the washing machine. Any ideas? Based on my near-nonexistent knowledge of plumbing, it seems to me that one of the pipes in my walls is leaking.

supabeast

Run a rinse cycle. Watch when the washer fills and when the washer drains and you should find out where the water is leaking. If the leak is in the wall, well, that’s where things get ugly. That’s when you have to tear the wall open and replace the leaky pipe. Or, realistically, get a plumber to, anyway.

Vi Monks

What should I watch for to identify the location of the leak? If it's coming from the connections or from the washing machine itself, then I could probably see it, but I haven't seen evidence of water anywhere except underneath the flooring, up against the wall.

supabeast

If the flooring there is trashed anyway you might as well pull it up and find out if you can see the water coming in.

Vi Monks

supabeast wrote: »

If the flooring there is trashed anyway you might as well pull it up and find out if you can see the water coming in.

Good point. Thanks, will give that a shot.

mts

is it possible its a leaky seal connecting the tubing and it is just running downhill to the problem spot?

zagdrob

Vi Monks wrote: »

What should I watch for to identify the location of the leak? If it's coming from the connections or from the washing machine itself, then I could probably see it, but I haven't seen evidence of water anywhere except underneath the flooring, up against the wall.

If you pull the washing machine out a bit, you should be able to see if it's wet around / behind it.

If the leak is in the wall, it's possible that a pipe is leaking near a wet spot, but it's also quite possible the leak is a ways down from the spot you can see and water is running in that direction.

What I would do (after making sure the leak isn't outside the wall) is cut a small hole in the drywall near the floor behind where your washer is. Get in there with a flashlight and see if it's wet / you can see the leak. Patching a small drywall hole isn't difficult, and you can also get an access panel at Lowes / Home Depot for ~$10 that will pop into a hole in drywall and cover it up.

If that's not wet, move down to where it's wettest and try to do the same thing. Cut on the side of the wall that's least visible, and see if it's dripping / running down the studs, if the bottom joist is wet, etc. Most likely you are going to need to hire a plumber and tear out some drywall anyway, but still try to keep your cuts small in case it's something you can fix easily.

If you have a basement and can get directly under the leaking spot, try to see if the wood is wet and where it's wet. That might be able to help show you where the leak starts and is running to / from.

Vi Monks

@mts

That's certainly possible, but if so, the connection must be inside the wall somewhere. I've already looked at all the connections behind the washing machine. No water behind it, on the wall where the connections are, or underneath.

@zagdrob

I may try that before paying to have any work done, though I did just call a plumber (on a recommendation from a few neighbors) who is willing to come out tomorrow and give me a free estimate, so I figure I'll let him do his thing before I start cutting holes in things, even if he'll have to cut the wall open to see what's wrong anyway. Thanks for the suggestions though. If I don't like the quote the plumber gives me, I'll open things up and have a look.