I can't stand Butcher's writing style. He absolutely can't separate himself, and that Internet-influenced thing you're talking about, from his narrator. Self insertion is almost too mild a term, here.
That and the DnD-player-turned-writer plotting just kills it for me.
So my friend got me to pick the Dresden files as light reading between heavier stuff. I really liked the first one and halfway through the second has been really enjoyable but every single time, and maybe this is just the Internet ruining me, he does one of those "maybe sexist but I believe in chivalry" things every time a woman is on page I get pissed off at the author, because it just reads like Tumblr Nice Guy (tm) bullshit self insertion and nothing natural to the character.
He gets somewhat better about at least trying to write human female characters later
Contrary to what some fans will try to claim though, he definitely never gets good at it, and every few books he has another foray into "oh christ is butcher really doin' this again?" ignorant sexism
A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
I really need some good, creepy horror. Non-King, please.
I want something that really instills a sense of dread and makes me think about creepy stuff long after I have put the book down. John Dies at the End was a little too in-your-face and humorous, in my opinion. I don't mind gore/gruesome descriptions/etc. but JDatE was a little too over the top to truly be frightening. House of Leaves is a little too meta and obtuse; I'd prefer something that isn't quite so dense and involved.
Horror/Thriller I guess is sort of what I'm looking for.
I was kinda scared at the first part of heart-shaped box by joe hill (who is stephen king's son) and enjoyed the book overall
full of crazy ideas that seem a little less so if you think about 'em a bit, and does a nice job of drawing the thread of progress from near future into the more bizarre
full of crazy ideas that seem a little less so if you think about 'em a bit, and does a nice job of drawing the thread of progress from near future into the more bizarre
The Sister Brothers was pretty neat. Newish take on the genre and a little Blood Meridian-ish too.
Stross has a lot of writings on the Singularity Skippy. He very much is not a believer like Kurzweil . Which he elaborates on at his blog (antipope)
I picked up Defenders by Will McIntosh (because I spotted it on sale for $1.99 on Kindle, which it still is as of today) and it was amazing. Really excellent military sci fi.
I'm halfway through Railsea and oh my god it's so good.
Solid one that.
Just started Sebastien De Castell's Traitors Blade, and it looks like it's just what I was in the mood for - a version of the Musketeers with a bit of magic on the side. I think this is his debut, but it doesn't show. Some fast paced writing, good characterisation, and the odd swordfight are already combining to make this one a quick, exciting read. More when done!
Mojo_JojoWe are only now beginning to understand the full power and ramifications of sexual intercourseRegistered Userregular
Finished off Stranger in a Strange Land. It's a shame that the premise is actually less interesting than the way they set up the premise.
I presume it was shocking at the time but now it just seems odd that despite really pushing the idea of "progressive" it still gets a bit tangled up when it comes to homosexuality and sexual discrimination was so ingrained that it was impossible to imagine a system of living without it.
Still, it's always nice to read old sci-fi for the flying cars and lack of internet.
I moved on to Sand by the chap who wrote Wool next. Which seems to be about the Earth being covered in sand and people who go searching through the ruins of old cities. Similar fluff to Wool so far, I'm a bit concerned that some of the setting hasn't been thought through properly though.
Homogeneous distribution of your varieties of amuse-gueule
0
Options
VanguardBut now the dream is over. And the insect is awake.Registered User, __BANNED USERSregular
finished a feast for crows
good to know there was a payoff at the end of that turd
will start a dance this weekend
also, if i wanted in on mieville, is railsea the place to begin?
good to know there was a payoff at the end of that turd
will start a dance this weekend
also, if i wanted in on mieville, is railsea the place to begin?
It's as good as any, yeah. If you're more of an SF person then you might prefer Embassytown.
Just an FYI: Meiville is extremely fond of his capitalised Neologism Nouns to describe the races, creatures and monsters in his books, and he doesn't give two shits if you dont like them.
Also he's an unreprentant communist and he doesn't care if you don't like that either.
Kind of like when reading Gene Wolfe's Book Of The New Sun, you have to be OK with 'Latinic' names and overt religious themes.
So anyway if you're OK with lots of made up names and left-wing politics (I am), then you'll probably enjoy his books (I do, a lot). If you're not, then you're gonna have a bad time.
SummaryJudgmentGrab the hottest iron you can find, stride in the Tower’s front doorRegistered Userregular
I started Mievielle with Perdido Street Station and loved it. The Scar might've been a better starting point, but eh. City and the City would also be excellent.
Some days Blue wonders why anyone ever bothered making numbers so small; other days she supposes even infinity needs to start somewhere.
I think it was a Dresden Files book where the protagonist literally describes themselves as wearing black reeboks and a duster
And I wasn't sure whether that was pandering or the author genuinely thought that was cool
I always thought it was meant to show Dresden was kind of a weirdo/slob. I don't think it was meant to be a cool look.
_________
I finished Word of Radiance which enjoyed quite a bit more than Way of Kings. I'm almost done with book 2 in the Gunslinger / Dark Tower series. I like it but I definitely could do without all the ridiculous language that comes out of Detta Walker's mouth.
After that I think I'll have to lighten things up with another Ankh-Morpork city guards book by Pratchett before moving on to Gunslinger #3.
CommunistCow on
No, I am not really communist. Yes, it is weird that I use this name.
+1
Options
webguy20I spend too much time on the InternetRegistered Userregular
I think it was a Dresden Files book where the protagonist literally describes themselves as wearing black reeboks and a duster
And I wasn't sure whether that was pandering or the author genuinely thought that was cool
I always thought it was meant to show Dresden was kind of a weirdo/slob. I don't think it was meant to be a cool look.
_________
I finished Word of Radiance which enjoyed quite a bit more than Way of Kings. I'm almost done with book 2 in the Gunslinger / Dark Tower series. I like it but I definitely could do without all the ridiculous language that comes out of Detta Walker's mouth.
After that I think I'll have to lighten things up with another Ankh-Morpork city guards book by Pratchett before moving on to Gunslinger #3.
Yea one of the Dresden files themes is that Dresden is a man outside of time when it comes to pop culture and he knows it. There have been MANY self disparaging jokes that he has made about his clothing options, among other things.
Started Wizard's First Rule and gave it the requisite 100 pages. Quick question: does the story get good enough that it's worth pushing through the fairly poor writing?
It seems like a book I would have loved when it first came out and I was 14. I'm 34, though. I don't want to waste time on it if there's better stuff I could be reading. Like Hyperion, which is calling to me from my bookshelf.
This my Gamertag— NathanaelPM
This is my PSN ID— Radthanael
Started Wizard's First Rule and gave it the requisite 100 pages. Quick question: does the story get good enough that it's worth pushing through the fairly poor writing?
It seems like a book I would have loved when it first came out and I was 14. I'm 34, though. I don't want to waste time on it if there's better stuff I could be reading. Like Hyperion, which is calling to me from my bookshelf.
God no. It only gets worse and worse and worse till it becomes fantasy Atlas Shrugged.
shryke on
+4
Options
jakobaggerLO THY DREAD EMPIRE CHAOS IS RESTOREDRegistered Userregular
Hyperion is one of my favourite science fiction books ever. Maybe just books in general. It is really good.
Meanwhile, Terry Goodkind's work, judging from the excerpts I've seen people make fun of on the internet, is, yes, fantasy Atlas Shrugged. You'll have to be a pretty hardcore Objectivist/Libertarian to stomach the writing. And the evil chicken. And the evil peace rally.
It actually starts as a crappy fantasy that was just written by exactly the kind of person you'd expect to be an objectivist. Then it becomes a Wheel of Time ripoff for awhile. It's only around book ... 5 I think where it starts to really go off the rails and the stories stop being fantasy stories and start being stories about the human spirit and it's need to obey Ayn Rand. Also, noble goats and evil chickens.
And all throughout it's full of titillating and trashy almost and not-so-almost rape and "righteous" (read: bloodthirsty) violence.
+3
Options
jakobaggerLO THY DREAD EMPIRE CHAOS IS RESTOREDRegistered Userregular
Ah. Well, that still sounds profoundly awful.
Don't read fantasy by other authors named Terry than Terry Pratchett, kids! Terry Brooks might not have the terrible politics but the one book I read, Sword of Shannara was ripping off Lord of the Rings to an almost comical extent (I mean, I caught it as a teenager and I wasn't really much of a critical reader).
Don't read fantasy by other authors named Terry than Terry Pratchett, kids! Terry Brooks might not have the terrible politics but the one book I read, Sword of Shannara was ripping off Lord of the Rings to an almost comical extent (I mean, I caught it as a teenager and I wasn't really much of a critical reader).
FWIW, Brook's less serious work (like Magic Kingdom for Sale: Sold! ) is actually solid and pretty funny. I couldn't wrap myself around Shannara either though.
Don't read fantasy by other authors named Terry than Terry Pratchett, kids! Terry Brooks might not have the terrible politics but the one book I read, Sword of Shannara was ripping off Lord of the Rings to an almost comical extent (I mean, I caught it as a teenager and I wasn't really much of a critical reader).
Terry Brooks wrote the same damn story so many times I think he's trying to do some kind of fractal storytelling. The original was alright if not terribly inspired. Then he made it into a trilogy that was the same story set over more books. Then he wrote a tetralogy with the same story. Then he wrote some more, again with the exact same story. He taught me that just because an author has one story that's interesting doesn't mean any of the rest of their work is going to be worth anything.
Don't read fantasy by other authors named Terry than Terry Pratchett, kids!
This is bad advice, kids. Dont get in his van, there is no candy!
OK, so, the problem with Fantasy is that it's super easy to shit out a 3+-volume series of utter bollocks and get published. And boy do lots of peope do this! But there is some high quality non-Pratchett writing in the Fantasy genre that people absolutely should read.
Gene Wolfe.
Jack Vance.
Sheri S Tepper.
Mervyn Peake.
Sussanah Clarke.
Sean McMullen.
Ian Macdonald.
To name but the first lucky seven eight I can see on my shelves from where I'm sitting now.
Does Charles Stross' Laundry series count as Fantasy? It has magic and monsters and zombies and unicorns* and (soon) vampires, so if that's not fantasy what do you even want?
So: Charles Stross. Nine non-Pratchett fantasy authors who are super well worth reading.
Oh wait: Metropolitan by Walter Jon Williams. Go read that or else feel justifiably ashamed of yourself. Ten.
You know what else is actually extremely good reading if you're OK reading past gleefully paleolithic gender politics? The original Robert E Howard Conan stories.
+2
Options
jakobaggerLO THY DREAD EMPIRE CHAOS IS RESTOREDRegistered Userregular
There is lots of fantasy I love! Including some of the ones on your list. My post was very specific and only concerned authors whose first name is Terry. What a useful, relevant rule eh?
You know what else is actually extremely good reading if you're OK reading past gleefully paleolithic gender politics? The original Robert E Howard Conan stories.
There is lots of fantasy I love! Including some of the ones on your list. My post was very specific and only concerned authors whose first name is Terry. What a useful, relevant rule eh?
Finally finished my Memory, Sorrow and Thorn reread.
Fuck that takes forever. It's not even the length so much as something about his writing makes large parts of it the slog of slogs. And some parts of it, like essentially the entire second book, are pointless.
Overall, my opinion of it improved from when I last read it almost 20 years ago. It's got some interesting ideas and a few decent characters but it's also got very weak dialogue for the most part, the prose is mediocre and the pacing and plotting can be really really bad sometimes. It very much feels like a writer with some good ambitions but lacking the talent to pull them off.
It's really does seem like the quintessential proto-modern fantasy novel. It's also funny to see something so almost perfectly slotted in both time and style. You can how it would show the possibilities of the genre to better writers like GRRM. (it does feel like a stepping stone to ASOIAF in many ways)
In case anyone still isn't aware, Tor has a whole bunch of free short stories and novellas on their site. This morning I was mostly reading Michael Swanwick; http://www.tor.com/bios/authors/michael-swanwick
Posts
That and the DnD-player-turned-writer plotting just kills it for me.
And I wasn't sure whether that was pandering or the author genuinely thought that was cool
He gets somewhat better about at least trying to write human female characters later
Contrary to what some fans will try to claim though, he definitely never gets good at it, and every few books he has another foray into "oh christ is butcher really doin' this again?" ignorant sexism
I was kinda scared at the first part of heart-shaped box by joe hill (who is stephen king's son) and enjoyed the book overall
it's a spare, kind of casually brutal western that follows the adventures of a pair of killer brothers
I enjoyed and would recommend
almost done with accelerando by charles stross (which is FREE at his website http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/fiction/accelerando/accelerando-intro.html) and I like it, although it feels more like a novelization of a ray kurzweil futurist presentation than a novel per se, to me
full of crazy ideas that seem a little less so if you think about 'em a bit, and does a nice job of drawing the thread of progress from near future into the more bizarre
The Sister Brothers was pretty neat. Newish take on the genre and a little Blood Meridian-ish too.
Stross has a lot of writings on the Singularity Skippy. He very much is not a believer like Kurzweil . Which he elaborates on at his blog (antipope)
Solid one that.
Just started Sebastien De Castell's Traitors Blade, and it looks like it's just what I was in the mood for - a version of the Musketeers with a bit of magic on the side. I think this is his debut, but it doesn't show. Some fast paced writing, good characterisation, and the odd swordfight are already combining to make this one a quick, exciting read. More when done!
Goodreads
SF&F Reviews blog
I presume it was shocking at the time but now it just seems odd that despite really pushing the idea of "progressive" it still gets a bit tangled up when it comes to homosexuality and sexual discrimination was so ingrained that it was impossible to imagine a system of living without it.
Still, it's always nice to read old sci-fi for the flying cars and lack of internet.
I moved on to Sand by the chap who wrote Wool next. Which seems to be about the Earth being covered in sand and people who go searching through the ruins of old cities. Similar fluff to Wool so far, I'm a bit concerned that some of the setting hasn't been thought through properly though.
good to know there was a payoff at the end of that turd
will start a dance this weekend
also, if i wanted in on mieville, is railsea the place to begin?
It's as good as any, yeah. If you're more of an SF person then you might prefer Embassytown.
Just an FYI: Meiville is extremely fond of his capitalised Neologism Nouns to describe the races, creatures and monsters in his books, and he doesn't give two shits if you dont like them.
Also he's an unreprentant communist and he doesn't care if you don't like that either.
Kind of like when reading Gene Wolfe's Book Of The New Sun, you have to be OK with 'Latinic' names and overt religious themes.
So anyway if you're OK with lots of made up names and left-wing politics (I am), then you'll probably enjoy his books (I do, a lot). If you're not, then you're gonna have a bad time.
Noooo.
That's my least favourite.
Either Embassytown if you want some intellectual SF of a vaguely Ursula K Le Guin vibe and lots of linguistics.
Or The Scar for a right rolicking sea adventure with scary monsters and scads of originality.
I think Kraken was more accessible since it's nominally set in modern day and I love that kind of setting.
Though referring to Embassytown as akin to Le Guin is spot on now that you mention it.
Kraken: Mieville + Neil Gaiman
The City & The City: Mieville + Kafka
Kind of.
That's... that's probably not a bad way to do it at all.
I always thought it was meant to show Dresden was kind of a weirdo/slob. I don't think it was meant to be a cool look.
_________
I finished Word of Radiance which enjoyed quite a bit more than Way of Kings. I'm almost done with book 2 in the Gunslinger / Dark Tower series. I like it but I definitely could do without all the ridiculous language that comes out of Detta Walker's mouth.
After that I think I'll have to lighten things up with another Ankh-Morpork city guards book by Pratchett before moving on to Gunslinger #3.
Yea one of the Dresden files themes is that Dresden is a man outside of time when it comes to pop culture and he knows it. There have been MANY self disparaging jokes that he has made about his clothing options, among other things.
Origin ID: Discgolfer27
Untappd ID: Discgolfer1981
It seems like a book I would have loved when it first came out and I was 14. I'm 34, though. I don't want to waste time on it if there's better stuff I could be reading. Like Hyperion, which is calling to me from my bookshelf.
This is my PSN ID— Radthanael
God no. It only gets worse and worse and worse till it becomes fantasy Atlas Shrugged.
Meanwhile, Terry Goodkind's work, judging from the excerpts I've seen people make fun of on the internet, is, yes, fantasy Atlas Shrugged. You'll have to be a pretty hardcore Objectivist/Libertarian to stomach the writing. And the evil chicken. And the evil peace rally.
And all throughout it's full of titillating and trashy almost and not-so-almost rape and "righteous" (read: bloodthirsty) violence.
Don't read fantasy by other authors named Terry than Terry Pratchett, kids! Terry Brooks might not have the terrible politics but the one book I read, Sword of Shannara was ripping off Lord of the Rings to an almost comical extent (I mean, I caught it as a teenager and I wasn't really much of a critical reader).
FWIW, Brook's less serious work (like Magic Kingdom for Sale: Sold! ) is actually solid and pretty funny. I couldn't wrap myself around Shannara either though.
Goodreads
SF&F Reviews blog
Terry Brooks wrote the same damn story so many times I think he's trying to do some kind of fractal storytelling. The original was alright if not terribly inspired. Then he made it into a trilogy that was the same story set over more books. Then he wrote a tetralogy with the same story. Then he wrote some more, again with the exact same story. He taught me that just because an author has one story that's interesting doesn't mean any of the rest of their work is going to be worth anything.
This is bad advice, kids. Dont get in his van, there is no candy!
OK, so, the problem with Fantasy is that it's super easy to shit out a 3+-volume series of utter bollocks and get published. And boy do lots of peope do this! But there is some high quality non-Pratchett writing in the Fantasy genre that people absolutely should read.
Gene Wolfe.
Jack Vance.
Sheri S Tepper.
Mervyn Peake.
Sussanah Clarke.
Sean McMullen.
Ian Macdonald.
To name but the first lucky seven eight I can see on my shelves from where I'm sitting now.
Does Charles Stross' Laundry series count as Fantasy? It has magic and monsters and zombies and unicorns* and (soon) vampires, so if that's not fantasy what do you even want?
So: Charles Stross. Nine non-Pratchett fantasy authors who are super well worth reading.
Oh wait: Metropolitan by Walter Jon Williams. Go read that or else feel justifiably ashamed of yourself. Ten.
*Not the good kind of unicorns. The other kind.
Which is to say, omg lern 2 read noob!1!! (sorry)
Also gleefully paleolithic racial politics too.
Good stories though.
Ah yeah well
sherry in the afternoon.
I thought Kraken was a pretty shameless Neverwhere ripoff honestly
Fuck that takes forever. It's not even the length so much as something about his writing makes large parts of it the slog of slogs. And some parts of it, like essentially the entire second book, are pointless.
Overall, my opinion of it improved from when I last read it almost 20 years ago. It's got some interesting ideas and a few decent characters but it's also got very weak dialogue for the most part, the prose is mediocre and the pacing and plotting can be really really bad sometimes. It very much feels like a writer with some good ambitions but lacking the talent to pull them off.
It's really does seem like the quintessential proto-modern fantasy novel. It's also funny to see something so almost perfectly slotted in both time and style. You can how it would show the possibilities of the genre to better writers like GRRM. (it does feel like a stepping stone to ASOIAF in many ways)
http://www.tor.com/bios/authors/michael-swanwick