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[Camelot Unchained] Beta 1 2017!

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Posts

  • DaimarDaimar A Million Feet Tall of Awesome Registered User regular
    WAR was poorly designed from the start. They took the asymmetrical classes of DAoC and only had two realms so that of course you're going to have classes which are OP vs the other faction and no counter to them. If there are three realms you can balance to have a rock, paper, scissors effect that is a kind of balance without having to have mirror image classes in all the realms.

    Also, all the OP classes were left alone in order and nerfed in destruction, but I'm just bitter.

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    AxenFeldornDoodmann
  • AxenAxen My avatar is Excalibur. Yes, the sword.Registered User regular
    Darkewolfe wrote: »
    Feldorn wrote: »
    Art, design, and production will often be much bigger teams than the purely development team.

    I watched the credits on a game s couple weeks ago and there were 8 names listed as programming out of ~100

    On topic, I'm really interested to see what this game does. DAoC was a fun game, one of my favorites. WAR had potential, but I think they were to ambitious early on. This is looking to be a unique experience so far.

    WAR took me the other way. It convinced me this format isn't tenable anymore. Still, I'm eagerly watching.

    WAR really shit the bed IMO. PvP focused MMO with only two factions is just, just not a good idea. Hell, any MMO with an open world PvP element that has just two factions ends up a mess (the PvP aspect, not the game at large). So I don't really hold it up as a prime example of the genre.

    Though the game did have other really good ideas that I was happy to see other MMOs take. Like PQs and visually distinct classes.

    I'm actually a backer for this and Crowfall. Both games are looking to scratch my PvP itch, but I feel like the fan base is only large enough to really support one of these games. Though I hope I'm wrong.

    Corehealer
  • JamesGoblinJamesGoblin Green Menace HarareRegistered User regular
    A quick intro to Camelot Unchained building. Folks, I present you C.U.B.E. for Dummies! Part of it was taken from this video made by Necromaniak, one of players in alpha tests:



    PS...
    Daimar wrote: »
    WAR was poorly designed from the start. They took the asymmetrical classes of DAoC and only had two realms so that of course you're going to have classes which are OP vs the other faction and no counter to them. If there are three realms you can balance to have a rock, paper, scissors effect that is a kind of balance without having to have mirror image classes in all the realms.

    Also, all the OP classes were left alone in order and nerfed in destruction, but I'm just bitter.
    Axen wrote: »
    Darkewolfe wrote: »
    Feldorn wrote: »
    Art, design, and production will often be much bigger teams than the purely development team.

    I watched the credits on a game s couple weeks ago and there were 8 names listed as programming out of ~100

    On topic, I'm really interested to see what this game does. DAoC was a fun game, one of my favorites. WAR had potential, but I think they were to ambitious early on. This is looking to be a unique experience so far.

    WAR took me the other way. It convinced me this format isn't tenable anymore. Still, I'm eagerly watching.

    WAR really shit the bed IMO. PvP focused MMO with only two factions is just, just not a good idea. Hell, any MMO with an open world PvP element that has just two factions ends up a mess (the PvP aspect, not the game at large). So I don't really hold it up as a prime example of the genre.

    Though the game did have other really good ideas that I was happy to see other MMOs take. Like PQs and visually distinct classes.

    I'm actually a backer for this and Crowfall. Both games are looking to scratch my PvP itch, but I feel like the fan base is only large enough to really support one of these games. Though I hope I'm wrong.

    Ah Warhammer...You mean, the best game ever made? I was there on launch back in 2008, and I still don't intend to stop playing it. Here is a little tribute, Warhammer Museum - http://notdstarcraft.com/threads/the-totally-pointless-warhammer-thread-that-nobody-asked-for.3469/

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    TheKoolEagle
  • bowenbowen How you doin'? Registered User regular
    hot damn that is like an optimized mini minecraft

    Ladies.
    JamesGoblin
  • RoeRoe Registered User regular
    edited September 2016
    Updated the main site with more artwork. Most of you will be surprised at how this game is developing.

    click?u=2b70fd18d895dd960141bac55&id=4737abff7d&e=bc9cad2d8d

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    click?u=2b70fd18d895dd960141bac55&id=d820c9fd1b&e=bc9cad2d8d

    Here is a link to a the news part of the CU site if anyone wants to read about the changes.

    Roe on
    bowenJamesGoblin
  • JamesGoblinJamesGoblin Green Menace HarareRegistered User regular
    Couple quite nice pieces in that little gallery @Roe

    Here's some alpha footage from recent Dragon Con, given through comparison between Camelot and Crowfall:

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    bowenMazzyx
  • MandresMandres Registered User regular
    Interesting video, thanks!

    bowenEntaru
  • MazzyxMazzyx I can dig it. Registered User regular
    Couple quite nice pieces in that little gallery @Roe

    Here's some alpha footage from recent Dragon Con, given through comparison between Camelot and Crowfall:


    When they got to the character creation stuff and the DAoC music started I was like, am I DAoCing? I am right? OOOH!

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    JamesGoblin
  • RoeRoe Registered User regular
    More art and some finished weapons.
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    JamesGoblin
  • bowenbowen How you doin'? Registered User regular
    I'm getting a weird "Right out of Morrowind" vibe out of those weapons with how the lighting on them looks.

    Ladies.
    Handgimp
  • WitchdrWitchdr Registered User regular
    I've been trying to keep up but when is the beta 2 expected to start?

    "Look, all I know is that this cord was plugged into my house and your house was glowing like the freakin' sun. So, I put two and two together there and decided that you're pissing me off." -Carl Brutananadilewski

    In regards to the advocates of his former empire: “I was going to have them all executed… the Royal Advocate talked me out of it.” -Shadowthrone (Emperor Kellanved)

    Handles: LoL-Emerging, BF4/Hardline-Whiskeyjack227, Steam-Fragglerock, HOTS/Blizzard-Whiskeyjack#1333, Life-Jason
  • RoeRoe Registered User regular
    Witchdr wrote: »
    I've been trying to keep up but when is the beta 2 expected to start?

    Beta 1 has started testing, though they have not released beta yet.

  • JamesGoblinJamesGoblin Green Menace HarareRegistered User regular
    Witchdr wrote: »
    I've been trying to keep up but when is the beta 2 expected to start?

    To add to what @Roe said, beta 1 backers already have access to some tests and to C.U.B.E. offline (building tool). Game is in the final phase of alpha, and beta 2 backers will be invited to tests (and get C.U.B.E. etc.) after beta starts.

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  • JamesGoblinJamesGoblin Green Menace HarareRegistered User regular
    Friday update brought us a bunch of new screenshots, just compare it with the earlier YouTube footage!

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    Here is the aforementioned update - http://camelotunchained.com/v3/screenshots-for-everybody/

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    davidsdurionsbowenRoe
  • RoeRoe Registered User regular
    These screenshots get better and better.

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    davidsdurionsJamesGoblin
  • bowenbowen How you doin'? Registered User regular
    the screenshots look amazing

    the weapons still look like they're from a game in the late 90s or something with all the jaggies and odd texturing

    Ladies.
    JamesGoblin
  • JamesGoblinJamesGoblin Green Menace HarareRegistered User regular
    bowen wrote: »
    the screenshots look amazing

    The weapons still look like they're from a game in the late 90s or something with all the jaggies and odd texturing

    I guess it's something that can be fixed easily. It is actually much more detailed, as you can see on the 3D model of "Lady of the Lake" sword - and compare it with it's "rough" image below (and, just for the atmosphere, I added the Arthurian knight screenshot):



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    bowen
  • RoeRoe Registered User regular
    edited December 2016
    I've seen plenty of high quality modeled swords being made through the CSE twitch channel. I guess the ones in the pictures weren't really finished with the textures.

    Roe on
    JamesGoblin
  • bowenbowen How you doin'? Registered User regular
    I bet those nipples would feel uncomfortable if you were holding that sword

    Ladies.
    JamesGoblinDraygo
  • Atlas in ChainsAtlas in Chains Registered User regular
    bowen wrote: »
    I bet those nipples would feel uncomfortable if you were holding that sword

    Because of the tightening in the codpiece?

    bowenJamesGoblin
  • AxenAxen My avatar is Excalibur. Yes, the sword.Registered User regular
    edited December 2016
    When you're away on campaign for months at a time people will be fighting you for that sword. :winky:

    Axen on
    bowenJamesGoblin
  • darkmayodarkmayo Registered User regular
    Axen wrote: »
    When you're away on campaign for months at a time people will be fighting you for that sword. :winky:

    if you are brave enough.....

  • General_ArmchairGeneral_Armchair Registered User regular
    edited February 1
    I'm really looking forward to this game. I hope that it can get a good PvP experience and strong player led economy going.

    Checking the timestamps, I realize that I'm super late concerning the discussion about WAR. But I'm going to put in my 2 cents. War had a ton of problems going for it. The most fundamental one was the that there were only two factions. The winning faction could just focus their resources at pounding the losing faction with no hope for a reversal, and battles would just end once the losers quit fighting and the winners got bored and went home.

    Then there was the problem of WAR's class design. It wasn't asymmetric. Not really at least. I mildly recall there being a few unique classes (like the High Elf archer that was just lolbad at everything), but for the most part the classes were carbon copies of each other with identical mechanics, skills that were 90% identical but with different names, and only differentiated by a handful of different skills and talents. Generally one or two of those talents or unique skills would be really good, and consequently that faction's version of the class was just objectively superior. The 90% identical copy stuff was so blatant that my High Elf Archmage had Gork & Mork skulls in its UI for months upon end. IMO, at that point you're just getting the worst of both worlds. Either make the classes highly unique so that they both have their strengths and weaknesses, or just make them 100% identical so that they're on objectively level footing.

    It wasn't just blanket "Order is OP or Destruction is OP", but there were strictly better classes on both sides. If memory serves, the Bright Wizard was objectively better than the Sorceress for some reason (don't remember precisely why), but large scale PvP at level cap was in Destruction's favor because everything revolved around the AOE blackhole/AOE nuke spam combo. Order had the better nuker in the Bright Wizard, but Destruction pulled off the combo better because the Tzneetchian Magus was their blackhole caster and he only needed to stack intelligence for his spells, while Order's equivalent in the Dwarven Engineer had to split his stats between intelligence and Wisdom, so Order's blackhole was weaker and more likely to fail to incapacitate its intended targets. Another issue with the "mostly identical" classes were imbalances that arose through the different leveling tiers since the classes didn't unlock their skills at the same time. The most memorable one was there was a gap at low levels where the Witch Elf gained access to her silence, but the Witch Hunter did not have his unlocked yet. That granted one faction a monopoly on silences for several levels of matchmaking.


    One interesting trend that became apparent to me with WAR was that by and large the most popular race for characters were Humans. The game did not launch with a human tank class for Order and this led to a situation for months where Order groups were fairly squishy because of a severe shortage of tanks. This was particularly interesting because the general consensus was that the Dwarven tank was the best tank in the game. There just weren't enough tanks to go around for months until the Knight of the Blazing Sun was finally released.

    Finally there was just all around glacial response to broken abilities. Both in the OP sense of the word broken and the "not working as intended" sense. I remember that my Archmage had access to an AOE debuff spell that was supposed to weaken the enemy's defenses, however upon launch it actually buffed the opponent's defenses and it took them MONTHS to fix that errant minus sign in the spell's effect. Sadly a lot of archmages never got the memo and kept spamming that "debuff."




    Glancing through the contents on their website, I think things look good for them avoiding the problems from WAR. Glancing over what info I can see for projected classes, I think they'll avoid WAR's "the classes are equal, but some classes are more equal than others" problem.

    I don't know if there will be class restrictions based on race (I haven't read through all the available info yet), but if race is a factor then they need to make certain that the game launches that human characters have equal access to class archetypes. Just to ward off one faction being plagued by an anomalous shortage of an archetype like WAR's tank shortage due to the initial lack of a Human tank for Order.



    Finally I hope that they're not afraid to push out frequent and tiny balance updates to play with the numbers on ability effects. In my experience huge balance patches tend to just shuffle around the flavor of the month.

    General_Armchair on
    3DS Friend Code:
    Armchair: 4098-3704-2012
  • AxenAxen My avatar is Excalibur. Yes, the sword.Registered User regular
    Apparently they've said classes will not be restricted by race. I was curious myself since DAoC had classes restricted by race.

    I'm excited for their plans on just about everything.

    The fact that taking a small force to destroy enemy supply lines is a valid tactic fills me with so much glee.

    JamesGoblinGeneral_Armchair
  • JamesGoblinJamesGoblin Green Menace HarareRegistered User regular
    Animations and visuals comparison, last winter vs couple weeks ago. Besides running, compare the sky, trees, grass, light... lots of "small" things accumulated into much better impression, and (if you'll pardon me for this mantra) "it's only alpha".

    Point being, 2016 aka "the lost year" wasn't actually empty, they did a lot and visuals are just a part of it.

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  • RoeRoe Registered User regular
    Re @Jamesgoblin The differences are night and day. This makes me feel better about waiting a bit for beta, seeing that the game is really starting to shine.

    Also, the bot test shows that the engine was well worth the wait; there's nothing on the market like it.

    JamesGoblin
  • RoeRoe Registered User regular
    edited February 23
    mark wrote:
    I don’t want to riff on my catchphrase from the WAR days and say “Beta 1 is coming,” but the truth of the matter is that it is indeed coming this year.

    Looks like beta 1 is hitting this year!

    Roe on
    AxenJamesGoblin
  • RoeRoe Registered User regular
    click?u=2b70fd18d895dd960141bac55&id=79e0cd514c&e=dff17e7639

    Definitely a lot of progress has been made over the past year.

    bowen
  • bowenbowen How you doin'? Registered User regular
    Roe wrote: »
    SfofmV0l.png

    Definitely a lot of progress has been made over the past year.

    Ladies.
  • JamesGoblinJamesGoblin Green Menace HarareRegistered User regular
    Here's that Arthurian knight in action vs a Viking warrior (it's dawn - they did some updates to the sky meantime)
    click?u=2b70fd18d895dd960141bac55&id=c38bcdc494&e=0ca1c9f981

    ...here's a slightly NSFW Tuathan axe:
    click?u=2b70fd18d895dd960141bac55&id=d66215e4a1&e=0ca1c9f981

    ...which actually started as a Valentine's joke between Michelle (concept artist) and Jon, the 3D modeling guy:
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    Here's a player built castle, not perfect but the light is better than it used to be and the textures are for just a millimeter more convincing:
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    ...and the same with this church, also player made brick by brick:
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    davidsdurionsbowenFeldornRchanen
  • RoeRoe Registered User regular
    edited March 31
    Some (relatively) new Artwork.
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    Roe on
    bowenJamesGoblin
  • RoeRoe Registered User regular
    Some UI artwork:
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    Some renders:
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    JamesGoblindavidsdurions
  • DarkewolfeDarkewolfe Registered User regular
    edited April 13
    I'm surprised by how far back some of this still is. "I drew some healthbars in paint" isn't really very impressive.

    Plus, those healthbar UI things are really pretty, but I can't instinctively tell what I'm looking at, which is generally the total opposite of what you shoot for with that kind of design.

    Darkewolfe on
    What is this I don't even.
    JamesGoblin
  • bowenbowen How you doin'? Registered User regular
    UI is one of the last pieces of the puzzle usually

    mechanics of the game, then art, then put the lipstick on (instead of displaying digital numbers everywhere, make a UI)

    Ladies.
    JamesGoblin
  • JamesGoblinJamesGoblin Green Menace HarareRegistered User regular
    Darkewolfe wrote: »
    I'm surprised by how far back some of this still is. "I drew some healthbars in paint" isn't really very impressive.

    Plus, those healthbar UI things are really pretty, but I can't instinctively tell what I'm looking at, which is generally the total opposite of what you shoot for with that kind of design.

    Couple reasons for all that: the team is far from any kind of !HYPE! phase, and they know well where their priorities lie in alpha tests. With many dedicated followers / testers hey can allow lots of ugly & delayed stuff, which is actually a rare luxury.

    Another thing is, the game is indeed very ambitions and innovative, it's aiming for complexity (individual body-part health/blood/stamina/whatever-bars being only a part of that) - which will likely scare many new players away (yeah I know, that part is quite controversial).

    Also, until just recently I guess they weren't even sure what they wanted it to look like, what exactly they were aiming for. If you want to innovate some pretty basic game mechanics + imagine you're building your own engine atop all that + you have no idea what, and to which extent, your tech (which you haven't even built yet, not to mention testing) will be able to support, you end up with concept art for user interface some 4 years (!) after Kickstarter o,O

    3014467-ezgif.com-crop%283%29.gif
    bowen
  • ZekZek Registered User regular
    Darkewolfe wrote: »
    I'm surprised by how far back some of this still is. "I drew some healthbars in paint" isn't really very impressive.

    Plus, those healthbar UI things are really pretty, but I can't instinctively tell what I'm looking at, which is generally the total opposite of what you shoot for with that kind of design.

    Couple reasons for all that: the team is far from any kind of !HYPE! phase, and they know well where their priorities lie in alpha tests. With many dedicated followers / testers hey can allow lots of ugly & delayed stuff, which is actually a rare luxury.

    Another thing is, the game is indeed very ambitions and innovative, it's aiming for complexity (individual body-part health/blood/stamina/whatever-bars being only a part of that) - which will likely scare many new players away (yeah I know, that part is quite controversial).

    Also, until just recently I guess they weren't even sure what they wanted it to look like, what exactly they were aiming for. If you want to innovate some pretty basic game mechanics + imagine you're building your own engine atop all that + you have no idea what, and to which extent, your tech (which you haven't even built yet, not to mention testing) will be able to support, you end up with concept art for user interface some 4 years (!) after Kickstarter o,O

    That doesn't sound like a team that's going to be able to deliver a high quality MMO though if all that is true. The​key to working as a small dev studio is to set attainable goals. Better to deliver a solid game with limited scope than to shoot for the moon and eventually put out something really janky and unpolished.

    DarkewolfeGeneral_Armchair
  • JamesGoblinJamesGoblin Green Menace HarareRegistered User regular
    Zek wrote: »
    That doesn't sound like a team that's going to be able to deliver a high quality MMO though if all that is true. The​ key to working as a small dev studio is to set attainable goals. Better to deliver a solid game with limited scope than to shoot for the moon and eventually put out something really janky and unpolished.

    Well, not that I agree but your point of view is not so uncommon, even among backers; furthermore many of them, it seems, wouldn't mind some kind of 2017-updated DAoC (or, in my case, Warhammer) with couple modern twists.

    3014467-ezgif.com-crop%283%29.gif
  • RoeRoe Registered User regular
    Some stuff from the newest news update:

    click?u=2b70fd18d895dd960141bac55&id=7e8fe2740b&e=003788b360

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    click?u=2b70fd18d895dd960141bac55&id=fccafe1ecd&e=003788b360

    JamesGoblin
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