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Look, up in the forums! It's [Superman]!

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    nightmarennynightmarenny Registered User regular
    Scott Lobdell will will be taking over action comics soon. soon You want no part in that.

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    GuekGuek Registered User regular
    So now's not a good time to jump onto superman then?

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    Green-2814Green-2814 Registered User new member
    It hasn't been a good couple of years for Superman comics.

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    KingofMadCowsKingofMadCows Registered User regular
    I think a big part of the problem is that most people don't understand the philosophical difference between Luthor and Superman.

    Those people should read LUTHOR.

    I think the philosophical divide is a bit different than what was shown in that book.

    I think Luthor is someone who recognizes that the things that drive humanity to greatness are not always great. People can be inspired to create great things through hatred, jealousy, arrogance, or by hurting themselves through drug abuse or other kinds of risky behaviors. Luthor believes that not only should humanity explore and exploit every opportunity that allows them to achieve greatness but that those darker impulses are often times necessary for progress and survival.

    I don't think Luthor would see Superman as being dark and demonic. I think Luthor would see Superman as he really is and that's what makes him so dangerous. Luthor sees the allure of the philosophy of overcoming our "flaws" and "bettering" ourselves that Superman represents.

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    AutomaticzenAutomaticzen Registered User regular
    Keith wrote: »
    Superman has been missing since The New 52.

    Look to older books to find Superman

    Morrison provided a good nugget for New 52 Superman. A hero who believes so purely in the right thing, even if he doesn't always hit that ideal. A bit rough around the edges, so he's a bit more fun than the paragon of all that is good that we had before.

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    Oniros25Oniros25 Registered User regular
    Guek wrote: »
    Man, I always end up disliking superman more after reading a vs. discussion where he's involved. It always succeeds in irritating me...I should really know better by now.

    Anywho, I was thinking about getting back into superman and I was wondering if anyone could give me any recommendations as to where I should jump in. Is now a good time? Are superman books any good at the moment?

    Depends on how you define several factors. Factors like "now" and "a good time". If all you're looking for in Superman is a big dumb power fantasy, Scott Lobdell's stuff might do you. Grant Morrison's whole run on Action Comics was pretty great. Not his best Superman stories ever, but pretty damn good. That run is now over, however and there is no clear heir to the "smart comics about Superman" throne. Will it be Snyder with Superman: Unchained? Probably not, but if you like his Batman stuff that might be worth looking into. Other than that...eh, the comic book future of the Man of Steel doesn't look incredibly bright. I mean that in all senses of the word.

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    Merlin the TunaMerlin the Tuna Registered User regular
    Oniros25 wrote: »
    Because Superman isn't cool enough apparently. Being a modern day Sampson who can fly and shoot laser beams from his eyesockets is apparently not enough. Usually, it seems like what Hollywood really wants is an excuse for Superman to be a right bastard to people because then he will be "edgy" and "cool". He definately needs to kill a couple of people, otherwise how will the audience be able to realize that he's badass?

    Which just reminds me of when I played Superman Vs. The Elite at a party and there was this one guy who was genuinely disappointed that
    Superman hadn't actually decided to horribly evicerate The Elite because that would've made him "awesome".

    I had to step into another room and take several deep breaths into a paper bag.
    To be fair, that would almost make more sense than the actual story. The whole thing is framed as a big "might doesn't make right" PSA, and Superman proves this by... beating the Elite in a fight. I've long wondered why it's among the most recommended Superman comics -- it basically stands as a concise indictment of how ridiculous the superhero status quo is, while apparently intending to make exactly the opposite point.

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    Merlin the TunaMerlin the Tuna Registered User regular
    I think I left that thought in a weird space.

    Your spoilered suggestion absolutely would be a dumb way to take a Superman story. But it would at least segue nicely into a "AND NOW YOU SEE HOW COMPLETELY TERRIBLE THIS TREND IS" wrap up page or something. I think I'd prefer that over the lazy moralizing.

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    KingofMadCowsKingofMadCows Registered User regular
    The biggest flaw of that film/story was that the Elite were basically a bunch of sociopaths from the beginning. The story would have been much stronger if the Elite were portrayed as being good, but flawed, people who just had a different point of view and were slowly being corrupted as they indulged in their vengeance and bloodlust.

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    sweetcreamscoopssweetcreamscoops Registered User regular
    Yeah, I hated it after the halfway point where the movie's head goes up its own ass. Why have Superman teach kids the value of life in a way that looks at both view points when you can just have him say "nuh uh, my way's better" then imprison said kids for the rest of their lives.

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    sweetcreamscoopssweetcreamscoops Registered User regular
    edited April 2013
    Double

    sweetcreamscoops on
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    Oniros25Oniros25 Registered User regular
    I don't strongly care for the execution, but I do agree with the story's thesis which is that darkness and bloodthirstiness a hero does not make. I say this being a fairly big fan of Wolverine even. I don't think darkness and bloodthristiness is what actually made Wolverine popular, but it's like how a movie like the Matrix comes out and everyone lifts the surface elements to try to "me too!" their way into sales. Slow-mo bullet time, dark trenchcoats, ect.

    People lifted surface elements of that sort of darkness and violence and missed the heart of some of the characters that originated it, which sometimes has most distressingly echoed back upon the originating character as they are "adjusted to the times".

    All that said, in the right state of mind, I quite like The Authority. Just for very different reasons than I like Superman. Oi, I'm not sure I'm even saying anything substantial...

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    lionheart_mlionheart_m Registered User regular
    There's an interesting poll on CBR. It really got me thinking who's my favorite Superman writer. I definitely lived that Ordway/Jurgens era. So much nostalgia. I wish I could say Grant or Alan but they didn't have defining runs. I think I might go with Grant right now.

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    TexiKenTexiKen Dammit! That fish really got me!Registered User regular
    edited April 2013
    That is a fucking shitty poll, I am hella ticked at it.

    No Joe Kelly

    No Mark Schultz (the best)

    No Joe Casey

    Alan Moore, really? really?

    And they put Loeb on there? Loeb wrote a good Superman title, but Superman/Batman cancels it out.

    Voted for Byrne out of all of them, would vote for Jurgens second.

    edit: Karl Kesel isn't even on the list!

    TexiKen on
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    lionheart_mlionheart_m Registered User regular
    Oh Karl Kessel! He was great during the Death/Return era. And I loved his Superboy. I don't know if I'd do Byrne...then again the stuff he introduced has really stuck over the years. I can't really say how good/bad was Joe Kelly since I skipped that era though.

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    TexiKenTexiKen Dammit! That fish really got me!Registered User regular
    The Kelly/Schultz/Loeb/Casey era has some of the best Superman stories ever, and really showed the next step for Superman stories to take without rehashing old storylines from before COIE. Luthor being president and knowing Clark's secret identity, Lois' dad dying and the distance between her and Clark that felt like a real relationship, John Henry stepping up big time, all great stuff.

    I can almost guarantee that if DC repacked Joe Casey's Adventures of Superman stories, made Superman wear his new costume, and just labeled them as "lost stories" from Grant Morrison, everyone would lap them up and get tons of praise. And then I'd say "psych!" and point the finger of shame at everyone.

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    RansRans Registered User regular
    *obligatory kelly/schultz/loeb/casey superman era-mention fistbump*

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    AutomaticzenAutomaticzen Registered User regular
    In total agreement. Schultz on Man of Steel was great. Superman and Steel were friends and partners.

    That entire era was great.

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    lionheart_mlionheart_m Registered User regular
    I feel kinda bad I dropped Superman right about that time. I missed out on a lot of story arcs I read years later like Emperor Joker and Ending Battle. Wait a sec, was Ending Battle that era?

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    TexiKenTexiKen Dammit! That fish really got me!Registered User regular
    Yep, though it was Joe Kelly's baby,not Geoff Johns like DC is trying to make with revisionist history.

    Johns was basically a fill-in writer on Superman until Steve Seagle took over (and was then kicked for the godawfule Lee/Azzarello story).


    If DC would get their act together and put all those issues up online, from all the different books, it would really be a nice cash grab for them, and better than rehashing the same old Birthright/All Seasons/Johns and Frank stuff for the Superman sales.

    Heck, during that era Joe Kelly did a whole new, compelling Zod character that would garner some attention with the movie coming out soon, put those issues up.


    Grah I'm just so frustrated now, fondly reminiscing and then realizing it's all gone.

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    RansRans Registered User regular
    i have the majority of those issues from that era in a box somewhere. i should dig them out, see which ones i'm missing, and try to track them down. round it out nicely.

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    KyouguKyougu Registered User regular
    Action Comics is something I wouldn't recommend to everyone outside the first early arcs. Things got really..well Morrison pretty quickly.

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    UltimateInfernoUltimateInferno Registered User regular
    Everybody should read the Krypto issue (issue #13)

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    BlankZoeBlankZoe Registered User regular
    Kyougu wrote: »
    Action Comics is something I wouldn't recommend to everyone outside the first early arcs. Things got really..well Morrison pretty quickly.
    I am still so damn bummed about how it turned out. Morrison sold it as a down to earth modern take on Superman's origin incorporating a lot of the golden age ideas.

    Then we got multiversal, time travelling Morrison madness and the big villain was some sort of 5th Dimensional Satan with three faces?

    I just wanted Superman: Social Crusader fighting injustice in his jeans and t-shirt.

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    lionheart_mlionheart_m Registered User regular
    I wonder if it would've worked out better as a graphic novel instead of a monthly title. There just so much more stuff buried between issues.

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    RansRans Registered User regular
    Tex, what would you say constitutes that era? I'm thinking Action Comics #760 - 810, Adventures #573 - 623, Superman #151 - 200, Man of Steel #95 - 134 (although the Schultz/Mahnke run actually started as early as #87, it didn't sync with the new era until #95), Superman/Batman #1 - 25 (debatable?)

    So it all ends right before the Turner arc and the DnA arc before Simone and Rucka take over, although Superman/Batman continues for some time after that.

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    AutomaticzenAutomaticzen Registered User regular
    Blankzilla wrote: »
    Kyougu wrote: »
    Action Comics is something I wouldn't recommend to everyone outside the first early arcs. Things got really..well Morrison pretty quickly.
    I am still so damn bummed about how it turned out. Morrison sold it as a down to earth modern take on Superman's origin incorporating a lot of the golden age ideas.

    Then we got multiversal, time travelling Morrison madness and the big villain was some sort of 5th Dimensional Satan with three faces?

    I just wanted Superman: Social Crusader fighting injustice in his jeans and t-shirt.

    Yeah, I'm actually perplexed people keep recommending Morrison's Action Comics. It's not reader-friendly at all. Someone compared it to Doctor Who. If that's the case it's more impenetrable episodes of Doctor Who.

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    vagrant_windsvagrant_winds Overworked Mysterious Eldritch Horror Hunter XX Registered User regular
    Just because something isn't simple doesn't mean it's not good.

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    glithertglithert Registered User regular
    I took a nap today, and I had the craziest Superman-themed dream. Unfortunately, all I can remember now is that Lady Gaga and David Bowie turned out to be 5th dimensional imps.

    I'm pretty sure at some point Superman vaporized a planet with his heat vision like a kamehameha.

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    BlankZoeBlankZoe Registered User regular
    Just because something isn't simple doesn't mean it's not good.
    It detracts from it when the story was presented as being intended for new readers.

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    nightmarennynightmarenny Registered User regular
    While I really liked Morrisons Action Comics run I do still wish it had been what it was supposed to be. Because what it was supposed to be would have been amazing.

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    The Lovely BastardThe Lovely Bastard Registered User regular
    there is nothing inherently wrong at all with the new 52 action comics

    it just wasn't even remotely what it was promised to be

    for other examples, see the rest of the new 52

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    SolarSolar Registered User regular
    yeah Action Comics was great

    insane and probably not for new readers

    but great

    I do love that if you get Morrisons Action Comics, All-Star Superman and Superman One Million they all sort of fit together in a nice character progression arc, even if they are rather different in details in overall tone and theme they have a nice curve to them.

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    AmiguAmigu Registered User regular
    What do you guys think of Superman Beyond? I bought the newest issue because the preview had a pretty interesting premises but I have to say even for 99 cents that wasn't a whole lot of comic /:

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    lionheart_mlionheart_m Registered User regular
    I haven't been a fan of their digital releases (Smallville and Superman Beyond). It just feels like a regular 4$ comic chopped up so it can be a weekly unlike say, Spiderman and Superman's weekly eras.

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    TexiKenTexiKen Dammit! That fish really got me!Registered User regular
    Rans wrote: »
    Tex, what would you say constitutes that era? I'm thinking Action Comics #760 - 810, Adventures #573 - 623, Superman #151 - 200, Man of Steel #95 - 134 (although the Schultz/Mahnke run actually started as early as #87, it didn't sync with the new era until #95), Superman/Batman #1 - 25 (debatable?)

    So it all ends right before the Turner arc and the DnA arc before Simone and Rucka take over, although Superman/Batman continues for some time after that.

    I think you're right on all counts (might as well carry Seagle's Superman run since it was good if short lived).

    Adventures is the odd duck, since Casey came on late but DeMatteis had quite a few issues cross over with the other titles so they're pertinent, and even Immonen's run was playing off some stuff like the early marriage trouble. But since DeMatteis' run starts only 5 issues later with Adventures 578, might as well get the other issues too.

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    AutomaticzenAutomaticzen Registered User regular
    Just because something isn't simple doesn't mean it's not good.

    But recommending a book for new and returning readers? Action Comics is not it by a long shot. It is a Morrison-hard story, not a "this is Superman if you've never read about him before" story. All-Star, Birthright, etc are much better choices.

    For example, Johns' Shazam is a perfect "welcome to Shazam" book so far.

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    Crimson KingCrimson King Registered User regular
    edited April 2013
    Action Comics was about fighting injustice and being down-to-earth for about three issues and then it segued wildly into this bewildering Mzypltxk story that was sort of crystallized Morrisonia

    i was kind of disappointed the dude didn't seem capable of stretching himself as a writer

    getting anything remotely worthwhile done in DCs current editorial climate is a reasonable achievement though

    Crimson King on
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    RansRans Registered User regular
    edited April 2013
    TexiKen wrote: »
    Rans wrote: »
    Tex, what would you say constitutes that era? I'm thinking Action Comics #760 - 810, Adventures #573 - 623, Superman #151 - 200, Man of Steel #95 - 134 (although the Schultz/Mahnke run actually started as early as #87, it didn't sync with the new era until #95), Superman/Batman #1 - 25 (debatable?)

    So it all ends right before the Turner arc and the DnA arc before Simone and Rucka take over, although Superman/Batman continues for some time after that.

    I think you're right on all counts (might as well carry Seagle's Superman run since it was good if short lived).

    Adventures is the odd duck, since Casey came on late but DeMatteis had quite a few issues cross over with the other titles so they're pertinent, and even Immonen's run was playing off some stuff like the early marriage trouble. But since DeMatteis' run starts only 5 issues later with Adventures 578, might as well get the other issues too.

    I've looked into it a little bit more and I think I would only include the first six issues of Superman/Batman and not Loeb's entire run. The first six issues wrap up all of the loose threads from Loeb's Superman run (primarily President Lex) and everything else in Superman/Batman is new stuff that doesn't have anything to do with the previous era (like the introduction of yet another new Supergirl).

    I dug through my old boxes in the attic and it turns out I have nearly a complete run from this era. Missing about 22 issues (out of (rough guess) about 200 issues that comprise the era), including a few random crossovers with non-Super titles and a couple of specials (like Superman Y2K, the Darkseid special that closed out Man of Steel, that one issue of Detective Comics and a couple of the important Our Worlds at War specials). I have everything in single issues but I think I'll get the first six of Superman/Batman as a trade paperback because the single issues for that are still stupid expensive.

    Rans on
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