Morality, Relationships, and Me
Don_Julio
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Registered User regular
During my college years and being at the final stretch of it I look back and realize that my dating life has been pretty awful to the point where I'm getting depressed over it. For my 4.5 years here at college I've only actually been with two people. I don't want to sleep with anyone that I don't have significant feelings and one night stands are not appealing (Mostly because of the fear of catching a permanent STD). The result is I've become extremely bitter and enter a cycle where I retreat into my intellect, become a "pro gamer" (Mostly because everyone sucks at games), bitter for a stretch, misogynistic, and cynical until I jump out of it.
When I'm around my friends I listen to them brag about their accomplishments, how hot they were, and who they're going to sleep with next weekend every day. In addition, it also makes me more upset that a lot of them do have girl friends and that they cheat on them all the time to add fuel to the fire because they're douche bags. Yet, the current environment I am in seems supportive of this self destructive behavior. Nobody seems to value loyalty in my immediate surroundings.
I won't lie to any of you. I haven't gotten laid since 2011 after the end of my last relationship which makes it all the worst. Going out to hang out with friends now is not very fun because they basically get drunk, hook up with a random stranger, and disappear for the night. When they try to get me to join in on their definition of fun I end up getting criticized for having moral values and shat on all over. While nobody says it to my face I catch the rumors that many people think I'm either homosexual/asexual, socially awkward/stupid, emo, a bitch, etc. The ones who aren't into the college scene tend to just chill out with their significant others and snub me about how they're so happily in love with their other and are already doing the talks of weddings being in the air already. All just fueling my anger.
I guess the point I am trying to get at is will any of this actually improve after college? My hard work and dedication towards school, connections, and grades has already netted me a job post college that starts at $60k a year with plenty of room for advancement/promotion. Though I get a little put down because it seems that nobody around me values an individual that will have a strong career or will be financially stable.
When I'm around my friends I listen to them brag about their accomplishments, how hot they were, and who they're going to sleep with next weekend every day. In addition, it also makes me more upset that a lot of them do have girl friends and that they cheat on them all the time to add fuel to the fire because they're douche bags. Yet, the current environment I am in seems supportive of this self destructive behavior. Nobody seems to value loyalty in my immediate surroundings.
I won't lie to any of you. I haven't gotten laid since 2011 after the end of my last relationship which makes it all the worst. Going out to hang out with friends now is not very fun because they basically get drunk, hook up with a random stranger, and disappear for the night. When they try to get me to join in on their definition of fun I end up getting criticized for having moral values and shat on all over. While nobody says it to my face I catch the rumors that many people think I'm either homosexual/asexual, socially awkward/stupid, emo, a bitch, etc. The ones who aren't into the college scene tend to just chill out with their significant others and snub me about how they're so happily in love with their other and are already doing the talks of weddings being in the air already. All just fueling my anger.
I guess the point I am trying to get at is will any of this actually improve after college? My hard work and dedication towards school, connections, and grades has already netted me a job post college that starts at $60k a year with plenty of room for advancement/promotion. Though I get a little put down because it seems that nobody around me values an individual that will have a strong career or will be financially stable.
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2. Having been with 2 people during college is so fucking normal I can't even. I suspect it was your friends who got it into your head that not getting laid every weekend and being with a bajillion people is the cool thing to do? Yeah don't buy into that.
Sounds like you're doing just fine for yourself, and you're just letting shitty people's habits get to you. Don't.
You have a job lined up after college that's fucking awesome. You don't treat your romantic partners like shit, you're doing great brother. Keep doing what you're doing. And meet some new people to hang out with.
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Yes.
(I mean I hate to give a one-word answer, but that's basically exactly what this boils down to.)
Also, no one is forcing you to be bitter and jealous. That's all you, and it's up to you to manage those feelings. Easier said than done but you should stop blaming others because they are not having relationships at you. No one is snubbing you by being happy.
Sounds to me like you just have not found "your people." I'm guessing your new career and financial independence will bring you closer to the mothership.
My undergrad scene SUCKED. I always thought there was something wrong with me because I wasn't able to enjoy myself in the same way other people did. Now for the first time in my life I'm in a place out of my own choosing, and it never has been better for me socially.
Find your mothership.
Until then, try taking life less seriously. Focus on stuff that makes you happy regardless of what your "friends" think.
This was my first thought too.
You don't seem to have much in common with them, and in all honesty that sounds like a good thing. Try meeting new people with similar interests? You don't need to wait till you're out of college to do that.
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Sometimes you do unfortunately. While there were people who shared my values in college, they were way too few and far in between. Also, when you don't have a critical mass, the good people tend to get swallowed into the dominant scene.
Not saying it's impossible, but sometimes it's just the way it is. Do, however, seek these people out by increasing your unformatted interaction with random people. It's all about using an effective sampling strategy. But, as in all of statistics, there are no absolute guarantees.
Ask yourself: Do you really care what people you think are terrible think of you? And if so.. uh.. why?
I mean, you're bitter because your "friends" are jerks who sleep with everyone, you're not sleeping with anyone, and that makes you upset and misogynistic because...? Ditch these dudes you're hanging out with and gain some perspective on your life!!
(Also if you're worried about STI's, there's this thing called "safe sex" where you wear a condom, use a barrier for body fluids, use your hands instead of your mouth for stimulation, I'm just saying)
And of course it'll be different after college. Hell, it could be different right now if you'd just stop wallowing and do something it.
Also, your current friends suck.
All of this sounds like nice guy-ery to me. If the most you have to offer a girl is $ and stability, that's a) not going to appeal to anybody in their early-mid twenties, b) if it does they are going to be marriage-obsessed types who will want to stop working ASAP, and c) you're going to be competing against guys in their 30s who make more than you. So you should develop your personality and interests to make them appealing to others. You are wallowing in self pity and your talk of morality and emphasis on "loyalty" suggest that you might be maladjusted. I can't know for certain of course, but you sound like every embittered guy on MRA or MGTOW forums.
I would let go of that and try to have fun. It sounds like you've adopted a siege mentality, if nothing else, where everyone around you are amoral sinners who don't have your depth, integrity or worth. Especially how you describe your paired off friebds as "snubbing you", which I doubt very much. I'd let go of all your resentment and anger. Plenty of people screw around in their twenties. It doesn't mean they lack morality or decency, and especially doesn't mean that you have a monopoly on righteousness (especially seeing you on an earlier thread being willing to bail on a gurl because she might be infertile).
That's ok that you're not getting laid, but you gotta let go of all of your animosity.
I think that's a little harsh. I don't think this guy is exactly walking Taxi Driver style around campus. Morality and decency is sometimes subjective. If he finds screwing around distasteful, that's perfectly legitimate. It doesn't mean he needs to chastise others, but just find people who also share his values. I don't think there is enough here to make any grand statements about this guy's allegedly unhealthy personality.
Also, while his coupled friends might not be actively "snubbing," people in relationship s can definitely be their own island and consequently suddenly become socially unavailable to their friends.
You mean like how the OP is guilting people for their lifestyle choices?
Just pointing out the obvious.
Your anger and sadness seem to be based on bitterness and resentment towards this people, and it doesn't help that you clearly feel you are better than them. If they are really that harsh to you and you are that harsh to them them you clearly are hanging out with people that you hate, and the solution is really easy.
That serves no purpose other than feeding your own sense of self righteousness. It's not productive and doesn't help the OP in any way.
Yeah...no. It's a way of trying to get the OP to realize how hypocritical he's being. I don't care what the OP or his friends do, but he shouldn't throw rocks in glass houses. @Australopitencio put it very eloquently. I'm just a little more compact with my phrasing than he/she is.
You're being neither helpful, nor giving advice. The better thing to say would be: OP, consider letting go of values judgments tied to romance and sex. Jealousy and resentment only serve to breed further jealousy and resentment. Let those things take a back seat to you finding and pursuing your happiness, and in time you'll find the passions of the Green Eyed Monster subdued, if not all together erased.
Geth, kick @Esh from the thread.
I think many cultures/religions have moral opinions about that kind of promiscuity. But, that's a D&D topic for another time.
The OP did explicitly mention cheating, which I'm sure he is not in the minority in finding distasteful. I don't like seeing people hurting other people, and would probably also be uncomfortable if I were surrounded with behavior like that.
Yes, absolutely. Bitterness and resentment are completely useless emotions that just suck up your !energy. Whether or not your feelings are tied to some moral values, you should definitely just distance yourself from these people for now if they make you feel uncomfortable. People can put you off for a variety of reasons, regardless of some moral judgement. For example, I don't like or like hanging out with people who go out binge drinking. I don't think it's immoral per se. But, it's also not the type of behavior I want to be around.
OP, everyone is saying it. Don't beat yourself up because you can't be more like your "friends." Find friends you would want to be more like
@k-maps I was talking specifically about this statement. In this scenario we have his friends that think along the lines of: "wow this guy is way too boring/uptight/whatever" because he does not have the same concept of fun than them. And we have him that thinks he is being criticized for "having moral values", which strongly implies that he thinks his friends don't have moral values.
So I guess it's easy to see how these two parties might not get along.
Secondly, I don't really think that those guys that are not on the college scene (which I assume means don't go out and drink, although I'm not really sure) are telling him things about their relationships just to spite him and "fuel his anger". I'm pretty sure they are just happy about their relationship and telling his friends.
I can see how in the first case it's better to just let go of this people. But the second case is more serious. OP is getting very angry and resented because his friends have relationships and he doesn't. If this kind of stuff affects him so much, he is just not going to be able to have friends at all unless they are bitter, resented, single guys.
No one says you have to bang everyone you meet, in fact, I would recommend against it (mainly for the big reason you specified). You do, however, need to work on your people skills. Mostly don't get defensive and accusatory because someone upsets you.
You have a good job, you just need good friends. Your friends are pretty terrible, don't hang out with them if you don't like to do what they do.
You may consider online dating if you're having trouble making the first step of meeting someone. Settling down with a good job is attractive, by the way. The further you get in life the more people change. It's around right now that people start wanting someone who's settling down, not going out to a bar every night, paying bills, upkeeping their living area, and all that.
You're also in that awkward transition period where if you didn't have a stable relationship before it, you're going to have a drought period before everyone catches up and goes "yes, I too have a stable job and want to settle down and pay my bills and maybe have little humans."
I do recommend online dating for you.
I'm sorry this is a little long, I'm trying to cover all my bases and make valid points. I went through what you did in college, minus having a job ready for me after college.
First off, I'd give you a hug for having morals and values as not many would hold true to it. It is very strong of you to be able to have your own thoughts and values and you're not easily swayed.
Second, I have to agree with many of the posters here, that maybe a new group of friends may be needed. I'm not saying you need to drop these friends, but there are many people out there who have the same values and different hobbies. There's nothing wrong with having multiple groups of friends to do different things with. There is no need to be bitter. You need to leave that environment for a little bit and take a moment to breathe on your own. Find a gamer club, or get into indie movies, go out and do something. Sit at a coffee shop and chat up some people there. Get out of the bar/party scene if it's not working for you.
You have a lot going for you as you already have a job lined up for after college. Not many people can say that. Even though you may not have a relationship now, what's the rush? You're young. You're still young and able to meet people, even after college is over. Besides, meeting people at the bar isn't the best way to do it really. Do a club, or a program, or who knows, maybe you'll meet someone at your new job!
The point I really want to stress is, you're young, and everyone around you is young. Not many people think about having a financial stable future when they're out of college. Most people do not know what they are doing yet, and struggle to find a job. You're already ahead of the game with having a secured job for your future so you don't need to live on the street or struggle to make ends meet. Don't beat yourself up over this. You're awesome for your values and awesome for having a job waiting for you.
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As for the cheating, I definitely had a friend like this in high school and for a number of years after. I think it was shortly after high school that she started seeing one or more people (depending) outside her relationships, where her boyfriend would have no idea. It is something that bothered me a lot, but I learned the lesson about actually TELLING the SO in high school with another friend (the lesson is don't), so I didn't really feel like that was an option that was on the table. Every so often I would say to her something to the effect of "heeeey, don't you think that maybe this kind of sucks?" but the response was always either a shrug or a subject change and I realized that saying anything at all was literally a waste of air that made nothing better. I knew she had some problems and everything so I tried to put it aside, but it's not something I could ever just make peace with, in part because then I would have to meet these people and pretend like there was no guy on the side. Eventually I decided that the whole thing was really tedious and stopped maintaining the friendship at all. It is not one I mourn, and frankly I'm probably happier for not having her in my life at this point.
It's a hard thing to deal with a person like that, because whether or not you feel pressured to act in a similar fashion, just knowing and continuing to hang out with the person can make you feel like a party to something skeazy. In the long run, usually not worth it IMO.
However, i get a little bit from the tone of your post that you are a bit on a high horse. Don't judge people for wanting to go out and hook up (although, the people cheating on their SO's, feel free to judge them), as people have said, they just have a different definition of fun than you.
I guess I got the answer that I was looking for which was that I wanted to have that reassurance that I wasn't "an alien" or "abnormal" when compared to my peers. Some of the things you mentioned I am still really self conscious about (Such as online dating) and creating/maintaining personal image/appearance to peers. The only real problem I have with meeting people is that it takes me a while to warm up to new people. I tend to keep quiet and observe the social norms of the group or environment that I am in before I introduce myself or begin to participate in discussions. (Though this doesn't detract from me getting dates or anything. Its just that most of the dates I've gone on lately I haven't felt that chemistry or bond between myself or the significant other).
For the friends who are single and seem to be just interested in sex, you're pretty clear that it's not really your thing. If you hang out with these people, the social activities are going to be centered around their interests -- namely, finding new short-term sex partners. That's not your scene, it makes you uncomfortable, so you shouldn't hang out with those people in those situations. Maybe they have other low-key things that don't involve finding new sex partners, but if not, that implies that they're pretty one-track and aren't really into the same things as you. What do you even do when you're out with these people if you don't have other common interests?
However, you shouldn't be bitter at your friends in stable relationships who are happy and planning for their future. Being a third wheel can feel shitty, but it's rude to take it out on wheels 1 & 2. It's not their fault you're single nor is it their fault that you're feeling bitter/jealous. Although I have regularly been in a relationship for most of my adult life, I enjoy doing things without my girlfriend, and have even hung out with other couples. Yes, it can feel weird if they suddenly start making out in front of you, but in my experience that's pretty rare. If they're so inconsiderate that they ignore the fact that you're present and start doing really couply things, then again, they're rude. If they're normal, though, don't begrudge them talk of children or jobs or weddings. Just because you're not yet at that point in your life doesn't mean you can't be happy for them and feel positive things from their positive future.
I think you might be putting too much pressure on yourself for these dates to be what you're looking for. Are you using them to maybe compensate for being lonely without your old group of friends?
I don't really know the answer, but I think you should either stop going on dates for a little while or maybe make them a lot more casual. Going on a date could be an excuse to check out this cool bar you've heard is good, or to see a concert, or whatever thing you think is fun. Also, it sounds like you used to be part of tons of groups!! I'm sure there are people from cross country or student government that would enjoy your company if you asked them instead of spending time with these ROTC peeps you don't really like. You don't need to like, go to a party or a club to "engage" with other people, you know that
You're not weird or anything, and I'm very sorry if you genuinely thought that, but you seem to be making your life miserable by hanging around people who's lifestyle choices bother you.
It always helps to stay active, especially when looking to meet new people (which may be a good call for you, but that has been covered pretty well already)! Maybe finding some more organized activities could help with your slump or getting you out and about, so don't be afraid to hit up things like Meetup.com and try out a few groups or take a look at your local gym for group classes.
Remember that "normal" is just an idea that is made up by people based on what they think other people think. In other words, other than some broader cultural standards, "normal" isn't really a thing. But no, there is nothing unhealthy or uncommon about the life or choices you described (though some potentially valid points were made about avoiding judging the morality of others) and it sounds like you have a pretty good life going as a whole!
The best way to overcome this sort of social analysis paralysis is to dive in. This way, ideally, you will totally mess up and be awkward or post something weird or whatever other thing it is you are may be worried about doing that has you over-analyzing social settings before interacting with them. Everyone has faults and messes up here and there and a big part of human interaction is accepting that. This not only applies to you, but to everyone else. So when you blunder something socially due to not understanding the norms, you will discover that the actual consequences are practically nonexistent, entirely fleeting and are very rarely remembered past the immediate encounter.
Totally start with the online dating, as its a relatively safe way to put yourself out there that is removed from your immediate social surroundings. OKcupid is great and free. I think we even have a whole thread dedicated to online dating and profile creation somewhere around here which, at the very least, could prove to be a fun social distraction for you!