How do you put together a game design team redux

galdon

A little over a year ago, I asked how one would go about putting together a team without upsetting people. people got upset.

There was a sarcastic video portaying an idiotic wannabe game designer being talked down to by an experienced designer at some point and a lot of answers to if I am ready to make a team not so much how to make one upon becoming ready.

over the last year, I have worked on improving my programming skill, though my art has fallen behind due to this weird new thing my thumb likes to do where it starts burning at the joint when I draw for very long.

despite my artwork not improving, my design and execution are good enough now to reliably earn between 3-4 stars on newgrounds. (usually high enough to be on the second page of weekly top results out of an average of 6 pages)

so now my new and hopefully less angering question:

What is the best way to look for and assemble a team without offending anyone, or looking like a general idiot?

bowen

Have a plan.

Decide what kind of assets you need.

Find people who want to deliver those assets.

Get money to pay those people.

Assemble your assets together, produce the game.

Find a publisher, or, publish it yourself.

Advertise.

galdon

the find the people part is what I'm stuck on; I don't know where best to look, and how best to present myself to avoid giving the impression that I'm just an 'idea guy'

also, how expensive is the upfront cost going to likely be if I can't do a revenue split between the team members?

Zombie Nirvana

Do you have money to pay these people?

bowen

How much art do you need? It's all dependent on the kind of art, how much, and how complex.

This goes for any of the cost. What do you need, how much of it, what kind of project are you doing? That's why you need a plan.

Not many people will do a revenue split, a lot of games don't break even.

bowen

A reasonable budget for a simple game is probably $150,000-200,000. A programmer, two artists, and a years worth of time. Time is money.

But if you just need a few models and textures crapped out by some artists, a few thousand will probably get you there.

TychoCelchuuu

Nobody's going to think you're just an idea guy if you link them to your Newgrounds games and say "I want to make something like this but better, with your help" but if the game you want to make outstrips your programming abilities they're probably going to think as much. You could just make the game with placeholder graphics and then get an artist to come on later.

edit: just to save everyone some time here is the original thread.

galdon

ok we are on different pages here bowen. yes you are right that 150k would support full time workers in a studio.

that is not what I am looking for, the flash game market is not suited for projects that slow and expensive to put out.

bowen

That's why you need a plan. You said game, I assumed something like... minecraft or maybe even final fantasy.

Flash game, you could probably get away with a few thousand as an artist poops out some art assets for you. I would question your intention to make money off a flash game.

TychoCelchuuu

You can make plenty of money off a Flash game. Super Meat Boy, The Binding of Isaac, World of Goo, etc. I would question your intention to make money off the kind of Flash games you've been making so far though.

Wassermelone

Nice job on actually making some games!

There are plenty of indie game forums out there with 'team building' sub-forums. There are even some game building threads here in G&T and SE++. The best way to get people to work with you is to be friendly and impress them with the work you've already done. The other best way is to pay someone. Need some art done for your game? Find someone who's art you like and ask their prices. Or post (in the proper place) in an art forum and ask for submissions for X budget. There's really not much more to it. Friends or money.

Also, you really need to stop being so immediately defensive. Your thread title here and the tone of your post could be called 'poisoning the well'. If you want to get people to want to work with you, maybe work on that.

bowen

TychoCelchuuu wrote: »

You can make plenty of money off a Flash game. Super Meat Boy, The Binding of Isaac, World of Goo, etc. I would question your intention to make money off the kind of Flash games you've been making so far though.

Ah those are flash? Neat.

Deebaser

Why should I work on your project? The answer to at least one the below questions better be "yes"

Do you have a proven track record of success?
Do I personally know you?
Are you going to pay me?

Tofystedeth

Yes, though I hear he's actually remaking Binding of Isaac in something not flash because flash just can't handle it anymore. Apparently it takes him like 5 tries to build the game without making any changes.

galdon

typing on a smartphone is hard xD every time I finish a popup says someone else replied.

anyways I'm not trying to come off as defensive; I'm just saying that is how things went last time, then what I did in the interim to improve, and now I'd like to ask again because the question wasn't really answered.


I did say my games were on newgrounds, those are flash games.

I'm not entirely sure I know what you mean by the kind of games I'm making so far, celchuuu, Do you mean the quality, or type of games aren't profitable? or both?

CelestialBadger

Get that thumb looked at by a doctor - could be carpal tunnel syndrome.

Wassermelone

galdon wrote: »

now I'd like to ask again because the question wasn't really answered.

The answer last time was improve art/improve programming/make a game. And you did the last two, so good on you. But as far as I know theres no real secret to making a team. Friends, money, or prestige are how you get people. Prestige really only works for people who have made widely popular games, so as I said in my last post, either start making friends on various art/programming/indiegame/gamedev forums, or start offering money on those same forums.

galdon

unfortunately I can't do treatment for carpal tunnel if it turns out to be that yet. I don't have nearly enough sick leave at my current job to last the recovery time. I have about 2 and a half weeks worth saved up.

Rye

So, I'm surprised no one else has gone over this, but depending on what kind of project base you're gonna be working on, you can usually hit up their local forum/bounty area. For example, Flash Kit has a great forum (http://board.flashkit.com/board/index.php) of people who might be interested in your pitch, are already familiar with Flash, and are probably interested in games.

The last 20% of game development time is asset creation, so you should have a bare bones version of the game you WANT to make nearing completion. That's how some AAA studios do it, too - they hire on 200-400% of their production staff to finish a game on short term contracts and let them go after. It's simply the most efficient way to do it.

If you're looking specifically for Flash Artist, you're missing the obvious one of hitting up the Newgrounds forum for people interested in collaborating. Newgrounds has so many people working on passionate projects that asking for a collaboration without discussing $$$ upfront won't make you come off as some slimey asshole.

Sadly, Penny Arcade is a poor resource for actual game development, so you should definitely be spreading your feelers out to development communities, not enthusiast communities.

galdon

sorry wasser, I wasn't ignoring you, it seems I didn't notice you replied while I was typing. what I meant was that I got lots of replies on getting ready to make a team, but nothing on how best to format and present the thread.

@rye: I hadn't tried on newgrounds yet because I don't know the best way to. I was hoping for some tips on what to say, how to present my own portfolio and avoid looking bad when I go try.

Rye

Your portfolio should be a foot note - the CURRENT project should be the focus.

• Have work to show (youtube vids), make the project appear as "drag and drop" as possible to ease an artists anxiety. It should at least look playable. Bonus if it looks fun!
• Pitch the concept in a small paragraph. Wall of text crits for "I don't wanna work on your project."
• Make sure to leave the project open for input, adjustment, and collaboration. No one really wants to "skin" your game and walk away. That's a paying job (and a lucrative one)
• Discuss what the goal of the project is - Just practice shipping? Make money? Hone Skills? Tease publishers?
• Let people know the $$$ situation. Unpaid? Profit share? Hourly? Contract?

Chaotic Kitten

I would recommend going to the tigsource forums, there are a lot of developers and hobbyists there, as well as a lot of good advice for startups and game making in general. Be social with game developers, most of us are very friendly, and very passionate about games. Who knows what can come of it, and having someone to work with that is a friend is far more fun in my opinion Good luck

galdon

Thanks Rye. I'll work on writing my post when I make it along those lines.

@Chaotic Kitten: I'll check that forum out too then. thanks.

CyberJackal

Try looking for game developer groups on Meetup or Facebook, and check to see if you have an IGDA chapter near you. You might find some potential collaborators that way.