Also, please be honest people. Almost any time ANY story discussion comes into this thread, there are instant whines and moans and "can we PLEASE go back to talking about multi 24/7 no one cares about that other CRAP!"
I for one would like it if discussion about the ending wasn't treated as verboten.
Meh. Maybe in the first few months. But honestly, there really wasn't much ending talk at all after that.
And most of those people were Wyborn.
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CambiataCommander ShepardThe likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered Userregular
Also, please be honest people. Almost any time ANY story discussion comes into this thread, there are instant whines and moans and "can we PLEASE go back to talking about multi 24/7 no one cares about that other CRAP!"
I for one would like it if discussion about the ending wasn't treated as verboten.
Cambi, I don't
I don't think that's actually true
It's an exaggeration, sure
But the "Uh oh, not this again" posts that happen instantly after any mention of the ending are pretty regular.
"If you divide the whole world into just enemies and friends, you'll end up destroying everything" --Nausicaa of the Valley of Wind
Maybe the blue ending could be handled by the ShepReapers A) Staying out of any non-extinction event due to some treaty or something, or Getting taken out of action by some space-macguffin when it's convenient for the villian.
(A) is a silly handwave
(B) subverts the blue ending - why even choose the blue ending as canon if you're gonna do this?
It doesn't have to be a handwave. I'd say it's pretty logical that massive hive-minded super destroyers are going to be limited in some way, either by sanctions from the space government, or simple lack of resources - they have an entire galaxy to police. Throw a few more lines about the problems of interventionism in there and you have a way to have them greatly add to the setting without having to model and voice them.
I still feel this is really subversive because
The "control" ending is not just Shepard controlling the Reapers.
It's Shepard controlling the Reapers because he has decided that he is going to control the outcome of future events. He didn't just control them to take them out of the picture-that is the red ending.
Blue is Shepard deciding that everyone is better off with him in control.
And he would not turn around and cede control right back to the same politicians who almost fucked over everyone in their entire cycle.
Treaties? Reapershep aint making no treaties. If he was a paragon shep he might be nice enough to give stern warnings before he acted to shape an event or situation. If renegade shep, probably not.
So yeah, a control ending as canon is highly problematic for future games. If there is a problem of significant scope, why isn't Reapershep managing it? They would need a good reason, and much like having Professor X get sidelined every 5 minutes in the X-Men comics because God-level telepathy is problematic, any way they write around Reapershep to create a dramatic problem for whoever the player character in a future game ends up being very likely cheesy and unsatisfying.
control seems to be the least popular ending, but I actually think it's the most fertile ground for a direct-ish 'sequel.' It doesn't have the weirdness of green or the removal of various plot elements like red, and potentially provides an out of the box antagonist or at least major plot device.
It also seems to most allow them to continue the themes of self-determination and man vs machine that they were exploring in the trilogy
ed:
also I mean, we learn in ME3 that the reapers are ultra-powerful but aren't omnipresent or invincible. There's at least as much narrative space for a story to unfold following the control ending as there is for shepard to run around blowing stuff up in ME3.
Given the unpopularity of the ending in general, I think they're best sticking with a red ending so the whole idea of Reapers can be written out of the universe and they can move off in a completely new creative direction.
The loss of
the Geth is unfortunate, but the developers liked the Geth as antagonists anyway, and there's nothing in any of the endings that leaves the galaxy in a state where Geth make sense as antagonists anymore.
The blue and green endings both leave too-visible reminders of the ME3 ending controversy on the galaxy, and that's a problem.
Rather than try and write around it they'd be best to just pick a canon ending on the basis of where they want to take the story. That wasn't really a problem for them throughout the trilogy, so
Well. The thing about that is that in ME1/ME2 at the end of the day, the choices you made didn't change much in the universe.
Basically, you had the same drink with a slightly different flavor, so it wasn't that hard to handwave it away.
ME3 endings even though they leave the universe in a slightly similar state are very different and could have some serious long term implications.
Right but I mean, the series doesn't have a problem with the idea that there are multiple versions of the narrative existing essentially in parallel, and if you start a new game in 3 or whatever they just drop you into a certain one. Like, shepard can die in ME2 and that's a consequence of a particular way to play the game. They chose to write that ending out of ME3 for obvious reasons.
I don't really have a problem with the idea that they could start a new game in one of those universes and let the player go from there
it was the smallest on the list but
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
Maybe the blue ending could be handled by the ShepReapers A) Staying out of any non-extinction event due to some treaty or something, or Getting taken out of action by some space-macguffin when it's convenient for the villian.
(A) is a silly handwave
(B) subverts the blue ending - why even choose the blue ending as canon if you're gonna do this?
It doesn't have to be a handwave. I'd say it's pretty logical that massive hive-minded super destroyers are going to be limited in some way, either by sanctions from the space government, or simple lack of resources - they have an entire galaxy to police. Throw a few more lines about the problems of interventionism in there and you have a way to have them greatly add to the setting without having to model and voice them.
I still feel this is really subversive because
The "control" ending is not just Shepard controlling the Reapers.
It's Shepard controlling the Reapers because he has decided that he is going to control the outcome of future events. He didn't just control them to take them out of the picture-that is the red ending.
Blue is Shepard deciding that everyone is better off with him in control.
And he would not turn around and cede control right back to the same politicians who almost fucked over everyone in their entire cycle.
Treaties? Reapershep aint making no treaties. If he was a paragon shep he might be nice enough to give stern warnings before he acted to shape an event or situation. If renegade shep, probably not.
So yeah, a control ending as canon is highly problematic for future games. If there is a problem of significant scope, why isn't Reapershep managing it? They would need a good reason, and much like having Professor X get sidelined every 5 minutes in the X-Men comics because God-level telepathy is problematic, any way they write around Reapershep to create a dramatic problem for whoever the player character in a future game ends up being very likely cheesy and unsatisfying.
control seems to be the least popular ending, but I actually think it's the most fertile ground for a direct-ish 'sequel.' It doesn't have the weirdness of green or the removal of various plot elements like red, and potentially provides an out of the box antagonist or at least major plot device.
It also seems to most allow them to continue the themes of self-determination and man vs machine that they were exploring in the trilogy
ed:
also I mean, we learn in ME3 that the reapers are ultra-powerful but aren't omnipresent or invincible. There's at least as much narrative space for a story to unfold following the control ending as there is for shepard to run around blowing stuff up in ME3.
I don't think the blue ending is the most unpopular
Also, please be honest people. Almost any time ANY story discussion comes into this thread, there are instant whines and moans and "can we PLEASE go back to talking about multi 24/7 no one cares about that other CRAP!"
I for one would like it if discussion about the ending wasn't treated as verboten.
This sounds good to me, if only because multi talk bores me.
I actually don't like the BW on Infiltrator Shepard. Specifically because the innate time dialation on the passive fucks up my timing on firing the gun so bad.
Whenever I go back to SP it takes me a good half hour to get used to time dilation in general. Same deal when coming out of charge. Something that would've made Insanity a much better challenge is if time dilation was removed completely along with time stopping through the powers wheel. Let Shepard bind three powers and use them like we do in MP.
That sounds super boring
If I wanted to play with the same rules as multiplayer I'd just play multiplayer, single player is where I'm perfectly fine with Shepard being an unstoppable biotic god with a whole bunch of powers to use
It wouldn't be for everyone, and that's OK. But if someone is looking for a greater challenge, I think that's a better way to do it than just giving Shepard less shields/less firepower and the enemy more shields and more firepower, which is more or less how it's currently done. Shepard can still be a biotic god of destruction without the ability to stop time at will.
Or to put it another way, if all you're looking for is seeing Shepard be a biotic god of destruction, you could play on easy mode. But I think many people would also find that super boring.
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OrcaAlso known as EspressosaurusWrexRegistered Userregular
Something I'd like to see is a move to a more intimate problem domain.
Saving the universe is great and all, but it might be nice to have problems with smaller scope to solve.
DA2 was a good start, if imperfectly executed.
The Mass Effect universe is large enough to fit a thousand stories that don't have you saving all of Galactic Civilization.
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CambiataCommander ShepardThe likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered Userregular
Something I'd like to see is a move to a more intimate problem domain.
Saving the universe is great and all, but it might be nice to have problems with smaller scope to solve.
DA2 was a good start, if imperfectly executed.
The Mass Effect universe is large enough to fit a thousand stories that don't have you saving all of Galactic Civilization.
Are you thinking a story that happens in the same time period that Shepard is saving the galaxy, or something that happens after the end of the Reaper war?
"If you divide the whole world into just enemies and friends, you'll end up destroying everything" --Nausicaa of the Valley of Wind
I actually don't like the BW on Infiltrator Shepard. Specifically because the innate time dialation on the passive fucks up my timing on firing the gun so bad.
Whenever I go back to SP it takes me a good half hour to get used to time dilation in general. Same deal when coming out of charge. Something that would've made Insanity a much better challenge is if time dilation was removed completely along with time stopping through the powers wheel. Let Shepard bind three powers and use them like we do in MP.
That sounds super boring
If I wanted to play with the same rules as multiplayer I'd just play multiplayer, single player is where I'm perfectly fine with Shepard being an unstoppable biotic god with a whole bunch of powers to use
It wouldn't be for everyone, and that's OK. But if someone is looking for a greater challenge, I think that's a better way to do it than just giving Shepard less shields/less firepower and the enemy more shields and more firepower, which is more or less how it's currently done. Shepard can still be a biotic god of destruction without the ability to stop time at will.
Or to put it another way, if all you're looking for is seeing Shepard be a biotic god of destruction, you could play on easy mode. But I think many people would also find that super boring.
I'm fine with it being harder, single player definitely needs something above insanity
I just don't think lessening the toolset is the way to do it
I also think the blue ending makes for the best ending for a sequel. But that could also be because the blue ending is my ending of choice and thus is the ending that has the most self-made head canon for me.
In my head canon, Reaper-Shep sticks around for a number of years to help with reconstruction but eventually takes all the Reapers into dark space to allow the galaxy to govern itself.
Something I'd like to see is a move to a more intimate problem domain.
Saving the universe is great and all, but it might be nice to have problems with smaller scope to solve.
DA2 was a good start, if imperfectly executed.
The Mass Effect universe is large enough to fit a thousand stories that don't have you saving all of Galactic Civilization.
Space opera calls for an epic scope-high fantasy does not.
They are not the same genre.
Now, is there room in the ME universe to have games that aren't space opera? Obviously, yes.
But I think it's fair to say that people expect ME4 to be a space opera. If that isn't the direction they are going, they better start preparing people for that like a year before launch so people can shift their expectations.
Maybe the blue ending could be handled by the ShepReapers A) Staying out of any non-extinction event due to some treaty or something, or Getting taken out of action by some space-macguffin when it's convenient for the villian.
(A) is a silly handwave
(B) subverts the blue ending - why even choose the blue ending as canon if you're gonna do this?
It doesn't have to be a handwave. I'd say it's pretty logical that massive hive-minded super destroyers are going to be limited in some way, either by sanctions from the space government, or simple lack of resources - they have an entire galaxy to police. Throw a few more lines about the problems of interventionism in there and you have a way to have them greatly add to the setting without having to model and voice them.
I still feel this is really subversive because
The "control" ending is not just Shepard controlling the Reapers.
It's Shepard controlling the Reapers because he has decided that he is going to control the outcome of future events. He didn't just control them to take them out of the picture-that is the red ending.
Blue is Shepard deciding that everyone is better off with him in control.
And he would not turn around and cede control right back to the same politicians who almost fucked over everyone in their entire cycle.
Treaties? Reapershep aint making no treaties. If he was a paragon shep he might be nice enough to give stern warnings before he acted to shape an event or situation. If renegade shep, probably not.
So yeah, a control ending as canon is highly problematic for future games. If there is a problem of significant scope, why isn't Reapershep managing it? They would need a good reason, and much like having Professor X get sidelined every 5 minutes in the X-Men comics because God-level telepathy is problematic, any way they write around Reapershep to create a dramatic problem for whoever the player character in a future game ends up being very likely cheesy and unsatisfying.
control seems to be the least popular ending, but I actually think it's the most fertile ground for a direct-ish 'sequel.' It doesn't have the weirdness of green or the removal of various plot elements like red, and potentially provides an out of the box antagonist or at least major plot device.
It also seems to most allow them to continue the themes of self-determination and man vs machine that they were exploring in the trilogy
ed:
also I mean, we learn in ME3 that the reapers are ultra-powerful but aren't omnipresent or invincible. There's at least as much narrative space for a story to unfold following the control ending as there is for shepard to run around blowing stuff up in ME3.
Given the unpopularity of the ending in general, I think they're best sticking with a red ending so the whole idea of Reapers can be written out of the universe and they can move off in a completely new creative direction.
The loss of
the Geth is unfortunate, but the developers liked the Geth as antagonists anyway, and there's nothing in any of the endings that leaves the galaxy in a state where Geth make sense as antagonists anymore.
The blue and green endings both leave too-visible reminders of the ME3 ending controversy on the galaxy, and that's a problem.
Yeah, I agree.
The red ending leaves the most normal universe - everything is battered but there's no huge changes. The whole rebuilding angle allows for new races, locations, and factions. I'd argue that it's the most boring ending to play in, though.
i actually use very few of shepard's abilities in practice
vanguard doesn't need much more than reave (or dark channel)/charge/nova
infiltrator doesn't need much more than cloak and energy drain
soldier really doesn't need anything except adrenaline rush
then again these aren't exactly the caster classes
I wish there was more time dilation in SP, just because I think it's cool. The sniper slowdown is great, but I want like, an on demand slowdown for my adept, even if it's just for dramatic effect
like, break cover > slow > use throw > wait > *tape fast forward sound* > biotic explosion
also I don't really think SP needs a harder difficulty, just because it's possible to cheese any level of difficulty when you have the ability to pause at will. If you want to have a good time with SP insanity, play without letting yourself pause during combat.
it was the smallest on the list but
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
Also, please be honest people. Almost any time ANY story discussion comes into this thread, there are instant whines and moans and "can we PLEASE go back to talking about multi 24/7 no one cares about that other CRAP!"
I for one would like it if discussion about the ending wasn't treated as verboten.
Cambi, I don't
I don't think that's actually true
It's an exaggeration, sure
But the "Uh oh, not this again" posts that happen instantly after any mention of the ending are pretty regular.
Granted
THey're more common in the SE++ thread, though, because ending discussion in this thread has died out in comparison
But discussing story? I think we're all fine with discussing story.
@Regina Fong I actually hope against the space opera bit. I think the first Mass Effect only shifted into space operatic territory around the time Sovereign showed up and spoke to you; I think you could make a really good, personal story on a smaller scope while keeping the same essential elements of the ME1 plot minus the Reapers. Hell, you could even play as a Spectre or summat.
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Fondor_YardsElite Four Member: HydraRegistered Userregular
I gotta love when people try to tell you how to build your kit in lobby and end up being shitty. Joined a Plat lobby as a Ghost, and saw we had two others Ghosts*1 Harrier, 1 Crusader* and Demo, so I change to my default plat character, the Huntress. The host*Harrier Ghost, all lvl 4 gear* starts giving me the business because I don't have an ammo power on and only have the Acolyte equipped. I tell him to shut it I'll be fine. I get second with 90k, while he's last with 45k*and Crusader Ghost fucking wrecked with like 150-160k*. I don't even know how you do that bad with a harrier ghost.
Secrets, lies, and tragedy. The trifecta.
3DS Code: 5043-2172-1361
Xbone Tag: Salal al Din
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CambiataCommander ShepardThe likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered Userregular
i actually use very few of shepard's abilities in practice
vanguard doesn't need much more than reave (or dark channel)/charge/nova
infiltrator doesn't need much more than cloak and energy drain
soldier really doesn't need anything except adrenaline rush
then again these aren't exactly the caster classes
Yeah Vanguard is my go-to SP class and I only really ever use charge and the ammo tech. I use my companion's reave or warp to set up the explosions so I don't have to worry about global cooldown.
"If you divide the whole world into just enemies and friends, you'll end up destroying everything" --Nausicaa of the Valley of Wind
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DragkoniasThat Guy Who Does StuffYou Know, There. Registered Userregular
edited March 2013
As far as MP talk goes.
As someone who has been in this thread, with ME2 we talked about gameplay just as much as we do with ME3.
Honestly, the majority of most of the ME2 threads were us talking about how awesome this class is or how good this weapon is. It was just that every now and then there would be a break off discussion about the genophage, toasters, or how Garrus was a cold-blooded murderer(I agree).
I think the reason that MP talk is even more lop-sided with ME3 is 1) It got much more continuing support than the gameplay in ME2 then and 2) the choices feel a lot more final in ME3.
This is actually something I've thought about a lot. You see the thing about a lot of the choices in ME2 were that they were an "either or" thing. Basically, you choice to do this action or you chose to do that action. And the thing about that was a lot of people on the forum chose to do different actions and we spent a lot of time talking about why we did those things.
The thing about ME3 is that for the most part there are a lot of "right" choices. All the major conflicts in the game can be won. I'm not saying that's a bad thing, because in a way us being able to win is because of the choices that we made in ME1/ME2.
That said it also kills a lot of the conversations. We don't have to decide between the Geth or Quarians, we can save both. The Genophage, well we can cure that and put people into power who aren't your traditional Krogan, etc, etc.
Basically, ME3 is the final chapter to the Mass Effect trilogy in a lot of ways. It is a culmination of all the things we done and it shows. But that lack of openness that ME1 and ME2 had also make it a lot more difficult to discuss. I for one know that unless I was purposedly limiting myself I would always go for the "best" choices.
I actually don't like the BW on Infiltrator Shepard. Specifically because the innate time dialation on the passive fucks up my timing on firing the gun so bad.
Whenever I go back to SP it takes me a good half hour to get used to time dilation in general. Same deal when coming out of charge. Something that would've made Insanity a much better challenge is if time dilation was removed completely along with time stopping through the powers wheel. Let Shepard bind three powers and use them like we do in MP.
That sounds super boring
If I wanted to play with the same rules as multiplayer I'd just play multiplayer, single player is where I'm perfectly fine with Shepard being an unstoppable biotic god with a whole bunch of powers to use
It wouldn't be for everyone, and that's OK. But if someone is looking for a greater challenge, I think that's a better way to do it than just giving Shepard less shields/less firepower and the enemy more shields and more firepower, which is more or less how it's currently done. Shepard can still be a biotic god of destruction without the ability to stop time at will.
Or to put it another way, if all you're looking for is seeing Shepard be a biotic god of destruction, you could play on easy mode. But I think many people would also find that super boring.
I'm fine with it being harder, single player definitely needs something above insanity
I just don't think lessening the toolset is the way to do it
That's fair. Basically what I'm getting at is after so much MP, I think there are a number of players who no longer take advantage of those abilities as is. They assign the powers to buttons and issue squadmate commands using the directional pad (at least on the 360, I don't know what the equivalent is on the PC). It not only makes for more of a challenge but it also allows the game to flow much more naturally.
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OrcaAlso known as EspressosaurusWrexRegistered Userregular
Something I'd like to see is a move to a more intimate problem domain.
Saving the universe is great and all, but it might be nice to have problems with smaller scope to solve.
DA2 was a good start, if imperfectly executed.
The Mass Effect universe is large enough to fit a thousand stories that don't have you saving all of Galactic Civilization.
Are you thinking a story that happens in the same time period that Shepard is saving the galaxy, or something that happens after the end of the Reaper war?
Either would work, though my preference would be for something new. A parallel development the way DA2 had would work (e.g. start from a different perspective of the same events, then move in a different direction).
The problem is that I don't know how they can write themselves out of the hole they dug with the different possible endings and ramifications of Shepard's choices through the entire game.
I gotta love when people try to tell you how to build your kit in lobby and end up being shitty. Joined a Plat lobby as a Ghost, and saw we had two others Ghosts*1 Harrier, 1 Crusader* and Demo, so I change to my default plat character, the Huntress. The host*Harrier Ghost, all lvl 4 gear* starts giving me the business because I don't have an ammo power on and only have the Acolyte equipped. I tell him to shut it I'll be fine. I get second with 90k, while he's last with 45k*and Crusader Ghost fucking wrecked with like 150-160k*. I don't even know how you do that bad with a harrier ghost.
the same way you wreck with any shotgun infiltrator, just run around cloaking and blasting shit. The ghost doesn't lose that much really by not using an AR
if he were an EDI instead of a ghost though he'd probably break 200
it was the smallest on the list but
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
Well "epic" only means that the story occurs over a large stretch of time and/or distance. So while ME1 may not have delved into space opera territory until the final reveal, it was always epic simply because space travel = epic (by definition).
You'd have trouble making a game in the ME universe not be "an epic".
*I'm talking about "epic" in the true dramatic sense not the way it is sometimes used as a generic adjective for things that feel awesome.
Well "epic" only means that the story occurs over a large stretch of time and/or distance. So while ME1 may not have delved into space opera territory until the final reveal, it was always epic simply because space travel = epic (by definition).
You'd have trouble making a game in the ME universe not be "an epic".
*I'm talking about "epic" in the true dramatic sense not the way it is sometimes used as a generic adjective for things that feel awesome.
Epic doesn't need to mean it takes place over large distances or time periods
look at the Iliad which takes place over a very small period of time and only in the area around Troy but is still most certainly an epic poem
Well "epic" only means that the story occurs over a large stretch of time and/or distance. So while ME1 may not have delved into space opera territory until the final reveal, it was always epic simply because space travel = epic (by definition).
You'd have trouble making a game in the ME universe not be "an epic".
*I'm talking about "epic" in the true dramatic sense not the way it is sometimes used as a generic adjective for things that feel awesome.
Oh I don't mean to say I don't want me some high drama
I love some high drama
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OrcaAlso known as EspressosaurusWrexRegistered Userregular
Well "epic" only means that the story occurs over a large stretch of time and/or distance. So while ME1 may not have delved into space opera territory until the final reveal, it was always epic simply because space travel = epic (by definition).
You'd have trouble making a game in the ME universe not be "an epic".
*I'm talking about "epic" in the true dramatic sense not the way it is sometimes used as a generic adjective for things that feel awesome.
Epic doesn't need to mean it takes place over large distances or time periods
look at the Iliad which takes place over a very small period of time and only in the area around Troy but is still most certainly an epic poem
Well "epic" only means that the story occurs over a large stretch of time and/or distance. So while ME1 may not have delved into space opera territory until the final reveal, it was always epic simply because space travel = epic (by definition).
You'd have trouble making a game in the ME universe not be "an epic".
*I'm talking about "epic" in the true dramatic sense not the way it is sometimes used as a generic adjective for things that feel awesome.
Epic doesn't need to mean it takes place over large distances or time periods
look at the Iliad which takes place over a very small period of time and only in the area around Troy but is still most certainly an epic poem
The Trojan war lasted for years.
Yeah but the epic poem itself takes place over something like 22 days right at the end of the conflict
Well "epic" only means that the story occurs over a large stretch of time and/or distance. So while ME1 may not have delved into space opera territory until the final reveal, it was always epic simply because space travel = epic (by definition).
You'd have trouble making a game in the ME universe not be "an epic".
*I'm talking about "epic" in the true dramatic sense not the way it is sometimes used as a generic adjective for things that feel awesome.
Epic doesn't need to mean it takes place over large distances or time periods
look at the Iliad which takes place over a very small period of time and only in the area around Troy but is still most certainly an epic poem
The Trojan war lasted for years.
Yeah but the epic poem itself takes place over something like 22 days right at the end of the conflict
It has backstory included in it, though I agree the action of the story is relatively brief, but the intent of the poem is to capture the siege of Troy, which was long.
As someone who has been in this thread, with ME2 we talked about gameplay just as much as we do with ME3.
Honestly, the majority of most of the ME2 threads were us talking about how awesome this class is or how good this weapon is. It was just that every now and then there would be a break off discussion about the genophage, toasters, or how Garrus was a cold-blooded murderer(I agree).
I think the reason that MP talk is even more lop-sided with ME3 is 1) It got much more continuing support than the gameplay in ME2 then and 2) the choices feel a lot more final in ME3.
This is actually something I've thought about a lot. You see the thing about a lot of the choices in ME2 were that they were an "either or" thing. Basically, you choice to do this action or you chose to do that action. And the thing about that was a lot of people on the forum chose to do different actions and we spent a lot of time talking about why we did those things.
The thing about ME3 is that for the most part there are a lot of "right" choices. All the major conflicts in the game can be won. I'm not saying that's a bad thing, because in a way us being able to win is because of the choices that we made in ME1/ME2.
That said it also kills a lot of the conversations. We don't have to decide between the Geth or Quarians, we can save both. The Genophage, well we can cure that and put people into power who aren't your traditional Krogan, etc, etc.
Basically, ME3 is the final chapter to the Mass Effect trilogy in a lot of ways. It is a culmination of all the things we done and it shows. But that lack of openness that ME1 and ME2 had also make it a lot more difficult to discuss. I for one know that unless I was purposedly limiting myself I would always go for the "best" choices.
And that was long than I expected.
Oh it's not at all unexpected that Multiplayer would be the big discussion now, since all mysteries have been "solved" as it were, so the only thing to talk about is multi.
What is not expected is people shutting other discussion down by saying "Can we go back to talking about multi, please?"
It's that second one I find objectionable and out of place, not the first one.
"If you divide the whole world into just enemies and friends, you'll end up destroying everything" --Nausicaa of the Valley of Wind
Well "epic" only means that the story occurs over a large stretch of time and/or distance. So while ME1 may not have delved into space opera territory until the final reveal, it was always epic simply because space travel = epic (by definition).
You'd have trouble making a game in the ME universe not be "an epic".
*I'm talking about "epic" in the true dramatic sense not the way it is sometimes used as a generic adjective for things that feel awesome.
Epic doesn't need to mean it takes place over large distances or time periods
look at the Iliad which takes place over a very small period of time and only in the area around Troy but is still most certainly an epic poem
The Trojan war lasted for years.
Yeah but the epic poem itself takes place over something like 22 days right at the end of the conflict
It has backstory included in it, though I agree the action of the story is relatively brief, but the intent of the poem is to capture the siege of Troy, which was long.
The major intent of the poem is to depict human tragedy through (among other) the heroes of Achilles and Hektor, the backdrop of the siege is important to that end but by no means the focus of the poem
The Iliad doesn't even include the actual end of the siege and has only a brief overview of what happened in the 10 years before the poem is set
Yay, got a spitfire I out of my last spending spree! I don't care if it's terrible. It. Has. So. Many. Bullets.
And with that, I now have one of every UR weapon, and everything else in my multiplayer manifest is maxed out. I feel like I've achieved my manifest destiny.
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DragkoniasThat Guy Who Does StuffYou Know, There. Registered Userregular
Yay, got a spitfire I out of my last spending spree! I don't care if it's terrible. It. Has. So. Many. Bullets.
And with that, I now have one of every UR weapon, and everything else in my multiplayer manifest is maxed out. I feel like I've achieved my manifest destiny.
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Meh. Maybe in the first few months. But honestly, there really wasn't much ending talk at all after that.
And most of those people were Wyborn.
It's an exaggeration, sure
But the "Uh oh, not this again" posts that happen instantly after any mention of the ending are pretty regular.
Given the unpopularity of the ending in general, I think they're best sticking with a red ending so the whole idea of Reapers can be written out of the universe and they can move off in a completely new creative direction.
The loss of
The blue and green endings both leave too-visible reminders of the ME3 ending controversy on the galaxy, and that's a problem.
Right but I mean, the series doesn't have a problem with the idea that there are multiple versions of the narrative existing essentially in parallel, and if you start a new game in 3 or whatever they just drop you into a certain one. Like, shepard can die in ME2 and that's a consequence of a particular way to play the game. They chose to write that ending out of ME3 for obvious reasons.
I don't really have a problem with the idea that they could start a new game in one of those universes and let the player go from there
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
I don't think the blue ending is the most unpopular
that prize goes quite easily to green
This sounds good to me, if only because multi talk bores me.
It wouldn't be for everyone, and that's OK. But if someone is looking for a greater challenge, I think that's a better way to do it than just giving Shepard less shields/less firepower and the enemy more shields and more firepower, which is more or less how it's currently done. Shepard can still be a biotic god of destruction without the ability to stop time at will.
Or to put it another way, if all you're looking for is seeing Shepard be a biotic god of destruction, you could play on easy mode. But I think many people would also find that super boring.
Saving the universe is great and all, but it might be nice to have problems with smaller scope to solve.
DA2 was a good start, if imperfectly executed.
The Mass Effect universe is large enough to fit a thousand stories that don't have you saving all of Galactic Civilization.
Are you thinking a story that happens in the same time period that Shepard is saving the galaxy, or something that happens after the end of the Reaper war?
I'm fine with it being harder, single player definitely needs something above insanity
I just don't think lessening the toolset is the way to do it
Then I want to play as a bunch of aliens dealing with a conspiracy. That'd be cool.
Nah, seriously though, I just like tin-foil hats. But it's PLAUSIBLE!
Space opera calls for an epic scope-high fantasy does not.
They are not the same genre.
Now, is there room in the ME universe to have games that aren't space opera? Obviously, yes.
But I think it's fair to say that people expect ME4 to be a space opera. If that isn't the direction they are going, they better start preparing people for that like a year before launch so people can shift their expectations.
Yeah, I agree.
vanguard doesn't need much more than reave (or dark channel)/charge/nova
infiltrator doesn't need much more than cloak and energy drain
soldier really doesn't need anything except adrenaline rush
then again these aren't exactly the caster classes
like, break cover > slow > use throw > wait > *tape fast forward sound* > biotic explosion
also I don't really think SP needs a harder difficulty, just because it's possible to cheese any level of difficulty when you have the ability to pause at will. If you want to have a good time with SP insanity, play without letting yourself pause during combat.
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
Granted
THey're more common in the SE++ thread, though, because ending discussion in this thread has died out in comparison
But discussing story? I think we're all fine with discussing story.
@Regina Fong I actually hope against the space opera bit. I think the first Mass Effect only shifted into space operatic territory around the time Sovereign showed up and spoke to you; I think you could make a really good, personal story on a smaller scope while keeping the same essential elements of the ME1 plot minus the Reapers. Hell, you could even play as a Spectre or summat.
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Yeah Vanguard is my go-to SP class and I only really ever use charge and the ammo tech. I use my companion's reave or warp to set up the explosions so I don't have to worry about global cooldown.
As someone who has been in this thread, with ME2 we talked about gameplay just as much as we do with ME3.
Honestly, the majority of most of the ME2 threads were us talking about how awesome this class is or how good this weapon is. It was just that every now and then there would be a break off discussion about the genophage, toasters, or how Garrus was a cold-blooded murderer(I agree).
I think the reason that MP talk is even more lop-sided with ME3 is 1) It got much more continuing support than the gameplay in ME2 then and 2) the choices feel a lot more final in ME3.
This is actually something I've thought about a lot. You see the thing about a lot of the choices in ME2 were that they were an "either or" thing. Basically, you choice to do this action or you chose to do that action. And the thing about that was a lot of people on the forum chose to do different actions and we spent a lot of time talking about why we did those things.
The thing about ME3 is that for the most part there are a lot of "right" choices. All the major conflicts in the game can be won. I'm not saying that's a bad thing, because in a way us being able to win is because of the choices that we made in ME1/ME2.
That said it also kills a lot of the conversations. We don't have to decide between the Geth or Quarians, we can save both. The Genophage, well we can cure that and put people into power who aren't your traditional Krogan, etc, etc.
Basically, ME3 is the final chapter to the Mass Effect trilogy in a lot of ways. It is a culmination of all the things we done and it shows. But that lack of openness that ME1 and ME2 had also make it a lot more difficult to discuss. I for one know that unless I was purposedly limiting myself I would always go for the "best" choices.
And that was long than I expected.
That's fair. Basically what I'm getting at is after so much MP, I think there are a number of players who no longer take advantage of those abilities as is. They assign the powers to buttons and issue squadmate commands using the directional pad (at least on the 360, I don't know what the equivalent is on the PC). It not only makes for more of a challenge but it also allows the game to flow much more naturally.
Either would work, though my preference would be for something new. A parallel development the way DA2 had would work (e.g. start from a different perspective of the same events, then move in a different direction).
The problem is that I don't know how they can write themselves out of the hole they dug with the different possible endings and ramifications of Shepard's choices through the entire game.
the same way you wreck with any shotgun infiltrator, just run around cloaking and blasting shit. The ghost doesn't lose that much really by not using an AR
if he were an EDI instead of a ghost though he'd probably break 200
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
You'd have trouble making a game in the ME universe not be "an epic".
*I'm talking about "epic" in the true dramatic sense not the way it is sometimes used as a generic adjective for things that feel awesome.
i played a plat game earlier with a slayer with a crusader I, AP ammo, and geth scanner
he played absolutely terribly and i can't believe we actually made it to extraction
but sometimes they really do surprise you
Epic doesn't need to mean it takes place over large distances or time periods
look at the Iliad which takes place over a very small period of time and only in the area around Troy but is still most certainly an epic poem
Oh I don't mean to say I don't want me some high drama
I love some high drama
I helped that poor man get his 15 credit refund.
At that point, I felt like ME3 had ended.
It was a good ending.
The Trojan war lasted for years.
Yeah but the epic poem itself takes place over something like 22 days right at the end of the conflict
It has backstory included in it, though I agree the action of the story is relatively brief, but the intent of the poem is to capture the siege of Troy, which was long.
I was using the theatrical definition.
So many definitions for a single word, English language, you naughty slut.
Oh it's not at all unexpected that Multiplayer would be the big discussion now, since all mysteries have been "solved" as it were, so the only thing to talk about is multi.
What is not expected is people shutting other discussion down by saying "Can we go back to talking about multi, please?"
It's that second one I find objectionable and out of place, not the first one.
The major intent of the poem is to depict human tragedy through (among other) the heroes of Achilles and Hektor, the backdrop of the siege is important to that end but by no means the focus of the poem
The Iliad doesn't even include the actual end of the siege and has only a brief overview of what happened in the 10 years before the poem is set
And with that, I now have one of every UR weapon, and everything else in my multiplayer manifest is maxed out. I feel like I've achieved my manifest destiny.
BBBBOOOOOOOO!