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Should I become a Mars astronaut?
electricitylikesme
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
H/A seems like it would be ill-equipped to deal with this thread, yet the topic is more relevant then ever. With Dennis Tito announcing he wants to fund/sponsor a Mars orbit mission (to be clear, you goto mars, you swing around it once and then head on back to Earth - probably all powered by Space-X technology), and Elon Musk + NASA all thinking about manned Mars missions, this question seems more poignant then ever.
My sociologically conditioned response is to laugh about it and find the nearest joke I can. The much more serious response, the one which tends to wonder about my mortality, says "can you think of a good reason why not?"
I'm in approximately the right age-bracket, but have no kids. I have some sort of science degree, not that it really matters and some military experience - not that it matters again, at least as far as the psychology of space travel goes. And so, with all these proposed possible manned Mars missions - some with return options (the orbit) and some without (if you land), the whole sort of question has felt oddly real to me lately.
To me, this type of question is the type of thing you'd read in a book. The book version is always yes, the real version you suspect runs screaming in terror from the prospect. So, in light of the current Penny Arcade vis-a-vis marijuana, I find myself pondering it because for the first time in my life it's not just my imagination about the prospect. If I submitted an application (however that may be done, honestly I've been looking) to be the first human being to orbit Mars, then while there's a thousand reasons why they might say no, there's that absurd and thus (from my perspective) likely chance that somehow, they would say Yes.
So, this is my question to you, denizens of PA forums: should I try and be a Mars astronaught, and would you? And more generally, given the topic area, what do you feel about the people who would think and attempt this?
My sociologically conditioned response is to laugh about it and find the nearest joke I can. The much more serious response, the one which tends to wonder about my mortality, says "can you think of a good reason why not?"
I'm in approximately the right age-bracket, but have no kids. I have some sort of science degree, not that it really matters and some military experience - not that it matters again, at least as far as the psychology of space travel goes. And so, with all these proposed possible manned Mars missions - some with return options (the orbit) and some without (if you land), the whole sort of question has felt oddly real to me lately.
To me, this type of question is the type of thing you'd read in a book. The book version is always yes, the real version you suspect runs screaming in terror from the prospect. So, in light of the current Penny Arcade vis-a-vis marijuana, I find myself pondering it because for the first time in my life it's not just my imagination about the prospect. If I submitted an application (however that may be done, honestly I've been looking) to be the first human being to orbit Mars, then while there's a thousand reasons why they might say no, there's that absurd and thus (from my perspective) likely chance that somehow, they would say Yes.
So, this is my question to you, denizens of PA forums: should I try and be a Mars astronaught, and would you? And more generally, given the topic area, what do you feel about the people who would think and attempt this?
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Those first few years/decades on Mars are going to be hellishly tedious. More prison sentence than exploration. Best case scenario you're in a room that looks just like the one you're in now, only without the freedom to go wander outside whenever you feel like.
So try? Yes!
Honestly, I sort of used to think I would be able to deal with being stuck in a tiny space with another couple people for something close to a year. Even longer for a landing mission. I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be able to.
I question how useful the Dennis Tito thing is. If there is any real reason, other than messaging, to even have humans doing it. I don't know... like, it will be pretty dangerous and I want to say send a monkey, but... that's just a really long time to have something strapped into a chair, with all sorts of feeding tubes, and no supervision. Aside from being terrible, the monkey probably wouldn't survive for all sorts of reason unrelated to space travel.
I wouldn't really discourage someone who wanted to do this, so long as they knew themselves and the risks.
The one way trip is I think foolish. Yes I am sure there are many people out there who claim that they would do it in a heart beat but I would like to think that even the most passionate proponents of space exploration would realize that a one way trip is an empty victory. And I'd imagine the passion wouldn't last very long as you sit on a deserted planet waiting for the supplies to run out.
So to return to the orbit option.
It is a very attractive option for all wannabe astronauts, no doubt, but I do question why they went public with the offer. Surely candidates for this kind of mission can't be hard to find for those already involved in the industry? Are they really going to select some previously unknown applicants over some who has already built a name for themselves within some space related field?
Would I do it? Probably not. I feel there's tons to see and do on Earth, from grand historical sites visited by generations for millenia to hidden gems in small remote communities that few have ever seen, and I want to experience those. Mars has less to offer for me, not more. And I do want to meet that perfect girl and have a family someday, and as hard as I think it is to meet women in my small home town I can't imagine it'll be easier on Mars. I do see the attraction in going to Mars, and especially in being among the first humans to go to Mars. I'm not immune to it. But it's the one-way trip part of it that really turns me off. I wouldn't say "no" to walking on Mars; I would say "no" to never walking on Earth again.
But I'm not you. So whether or not I would do it should have no influence on whether you would do it.
How do I feel about people who want to do it? I respect them. They are willing to accept a trade-off that I am not. That doesn't make me think any more or less of them, it just means that they have different priorities and interests which makes them value the two things in the trade-off differently from me. I know for a fact I'll be following the news of their expedition very closely, and that every time I'll see a picture of the colony there'll be a part of me wishing I was there.
And I know this next advice will sound corny, but it's true so I'll give it anyway: if you in any way want to go but you don't at least try, you'll regret it for the rest of your life. Would you tell your grandkids the story of how you wanted to be among the first humans to go to Mars, tried to get in but got rejected, or would you rather tell them how you wanted to be among the first humans to go to Mars but never bothered trying, sat back and let the opportunity slip by?
There's always that reality show one where you don't come back, probably. Says they'll train you in all the areas (engineering, crop tending, etc etc) even if you don't have a degree.
I'm not sure my fiancee would be down, sadly. I've joked with her about it and gotten mixed responses. :P
Seriously, I've always felt like I was born in the wrong time period, too late to explore the Earth (aside from the ocean, which I'm not really into) and too early to explore space. It's a bit of a bummer. I would be an explorer. I know it in my bones.
Then I can tell my grandkids, "Oh yeah, I remember when ELM orbited Mars. We used to hang out on this thing called an 'internet forum'. Heck, I was the one that told him to do it. Too bad he crashed facefirst into Deimos on the way back."
But then we'd end up with a million throwaway accounts from people coming to talk to him.
I say do it; if for no other reason then to aid in the pursuit of allowing those of us who dream of the stars to see dreams like this become real, and to see Mars become closer to a place our children can one day reach, explore and colonize.
Ehh... not that some sort of communication wouldn't be possible, but TCP sort of breaks down when it takes 10 minutes to preform a 3 way handshake. Like, limited bandwidth and minutes of latency really sort of makes the internet as we know it more or less not work good. You're kinda limited to asynchronous connectionless tweet-like/email-ish stuff would probably be about the best you could do.
So it is totally doable, but A) I dunno the download bandwidth and
Meh.
In my experience overrated.
What I want? Lock myself away from all the scary outside-things.
I don't know how to describe this that well. I just started reading Packing for Mars this morning (Mary Roach's book about space travel), and the first chapter talks about the selection process potential astronauts go through and the type of personality that space agencies look for in astronauts. One astronaut talks about how he was taking a personality test to see if he had any psychological issues/if he was the right fit, and the question "What do you want on your tombstone?" came up. He responded, "A devoted husband and loving father" (or vice versa), but then told Roach something like, "That was a lie. I would have sold my wife and kids into slavery to go into space."
What I guess I'm saying is that if I was the type of person who was capable of going on a long-term space mission (the physical ability, scientific skill, and just general mindset), my thinking would be such that I wouldn't be able to turn the challenge down.
- John Stuart Mill
But hey, that's me.
xbl - HowYouGetAnts
steam - WeAreAllGeth
Croatoan.
You ask if you should try to be a Mars astronaut. The answer to your question depends on the nature of your "should". Here are just a few things that "should" could mean:
Duty (moral)
Duty (legal)
Propriety (religion)
Propriety (culture)
Expediency (economical)
Expediency (career)
Expediency (historical impact)
Obligation (legal)
Obligation (to species)
Obligation (to society)
Obligation (to family)
Obligation (to self)
Each of those understandings of "should" utilize a difference sense of requirement, a different notion of obligation. Each nuanced understanding would involve its own standard of reasoning and its own set of considerable criteria.
At first, it seems that morality may not be an issue. However, you mention that you are childless, have a science degree, and some military experience. Perhaps that indicates that you have a stronger moral duty to apply than someone who has children, no science degree, no military training, etc., since you are more likely to be successful, and your success could result in furthering the welfare of our species by offering us a new planet upon which to dwell.
Your final question asked about "what do you feel about the people who would think and attempt this". That seems to suggest that you're concerned with the cultural impact of going to Mars. Perhaps the hero remembrance, or social status that would go along with such a venture. If you want your name to be on a commemorative plaque somewhere, that would be a very different sense of "should" than one of moral considerations, or religious duty. Going to Mars could be a better means of acquiring a place in history than, say, teaching science at a community college.
I do not know if you should do this, since I do not know your moral considerations, your sense of obligation / duty, what motivates you to consider it in the first place, your goals / dreams, etc.
As to whether or not I would do it...well...that depends on the requirements.
If the funders don't get distracted/run out of money/fired and replaced, it ought to only be ... 15->40 years before there are easily three or four new people up there with you. There could be a few thousand kilometres of airless freezing desert between you and them, but you'll have fresh faces.
Joking aside, the first people to live and die on another world will probably be famous forever. In four hundred years there'll be school kids on Mars who get the day off for ELMday.
It's just that you're consigning yourself to a short and hellish life in the interim, and fame's no good if you never get to enjoy it.
I recommend you take a book or two. Perhaps a video game.
In all seriousness, I wouldn't do it without a means of getting of the rock once on it. Some people are talking about a one way trip and that sounds like a definite "no" to me. Fuck that shit.
Imagine every post you make here taking 18 minutes to show up. And then another 18 minutes before you can see responses.
A Mars mission is like pre-Vanilla forums.
Oh wait, it has! Here you go:
http://www.thehindu.com/sci-tech/science/five-hundred-days-of-solitude-russia-ends-mars-experiment/article2597240.ece
and another link:
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/11/04/us-mars-isolation-odd-idUSTRE7A349220111104
It sounds like they had a horrible time.
The Reuter's article briefly tells of an earlier aborted experiment, which ended after a fistfight and one crewmember trying to forcibly kiss a female crewmate. I wouldn't go, I go nuts without enough social stimulation as it is.
In discussions such as these I'm often curious about what people like so damn much about Earth that they are unwilling to sacrifice it for the sake of a Mars adventure.
Lock yourself in a box for 8 months with not much to do, then when you exit the box you're in the middle of the Sahara, and if you take your helmet off you die. That's not an adventure, that's a sentence.
fuck no
Personally, I'm pretty keen on breathing.
That and the ping time from Mars would be horrendous.
Ahem.
Submarines.
This is a problem with the overly-reductive thinking that results from some concepts of science.
It is not the case that one can simulate *every* condition of the Mars trip on Earth. For one thing, the subjects would know they are still on Earth, so they never genuinely engage with the mentality of actually being actually on the way to Mars, actually estranged from their species to that degree.
Now, you may say that mentality is irrelevant, and we can simulate all the relevant factors of the trip to Mars, but then you're doing the overly-reductive thing, again.
Being around other people and a far lower risk of dieing horrible are probably are probably pretty high on the list. As is being able to eat a variety of food, walk more than 10 feet, obtain new items are probably high on the list too.
Like, there is that whole hirarchy of needs thing, and being on a long term space mission endangers every single one of them. That is generally a thing humans don't want.
Submarines without shore leave and hookers
in spaaaaace
Submarines that park at the bottom of the sea and leave you to rot there for the remainder of your artificially truncated life.
If people aren't able to maintain an acceptable level of sanity and civility when they're simply sitting in a container on Earth, knowing they'll survive, what makes you think they will a hundred million miles into space?
We also still don't have a legitimate reason to actually send a manned mission to mars. People will say "to set up a colony." But why? Science experiments? We have robots that can do that, increasingly well, and for much cheaper. You don't have to send four tons of food along with a robot. If the robot landing vehicle crashes into the surface at mach 7, they just start building another one.
Sending manned missions places is antiquated. They're pointless, unless we have the technology to establish a successful, sustainable colony somewhere that would actually serve a purpose besides "hey look where we managed to put people."
I'd go to Mars for the simple fact that I could end every argument with " Yeah well fuck you, I've been to Mars "
And I'm sure they'd receive that transmission 30 minutes after your oxygen ran out.