8bit more popular than 3d?

supergamerprincess

Just curious why does everyone think that most people think simple 8bit
games are better than new realistic 3d games?

8bit games take less time to develop and take less resources. Today it seems
more and more 8bit games are arising. Especially with the mobile market.

I wonder... is it because the mean age group for gamers (teens - adults)
grew up with 8bit and it subconsciously triggers happy memories?

Forar

I'm gonna have to go cliche and state [Citation Needed] about "most people" prefering "8 bit" over "3D".

I agree that the mobile market has been a great source of new games, and many of those generally showcase gameplay over graphic power, since obviously it's only recently that even smartphones have really begun to crank up what they can do visually.

You also have Kickstarter and resources like the XBox Live indie section and Steam's Greenlight system allowing more niche/indie/smaller budget titles an opportunity to be shared with millions of people. Good Old Games, similarly is certainly at least somewhat tapping into the nostalgia aspect of old-school gaming.

But as someone in his early 30's, I stand firmly in disagreement with the "most people" part of your initial assertion. My friends and I (older and younger alike) have tastes that range from the latest and hottest releases (Bioshock Infinite is a simply gorgeous game), and at the same time we're happy to wax nigh-poetic about our fond times with the SNES, NES and even earlier eras. Games like X-Wing, Mechwarrior 2, TIE Fighter, Crusader: No Remorse and the original X-Com were made on screens roughly a quarter the resolution that my toaster is capable of putting out these days, but they were a big part of my gaming experiences over the years.

Overall, what you're commenting on strikes me as a false dichotomy. Only the silliest of geese will argue that one is completely, utterly and strictly superior to the other. Everything has it's place. There have been loads of poorly done games on the latest and greatest HD OMG IT'S LIKE I CAN TASTE THE DIRT graphics engines, and some truly outstanding games have been made just in the past few years that probably could've been coded and released a decade ago.

It boils down to personal preference and recognition that not every development team has tens of millions of dollars to spend on top of the line graphics, and that vast spectrum of visual fidelity will attract and repel people on every point.

UnbreakableVow

I think 8-bit graphics are pretty ugly personally, and games that imitate that style down to a T look just as bad (like that Cave Story pic in the OP)

What I do like is the look of the games that are quote-unquote "8 bit," but could never conceivably be done on those old systems, like Super Meat Boy and Fez

The best approach I've seen to that style is to make those games as you remember them, not how they were

I also don't hold to this so-called universal truth that all early polygon games are bad-looking now - yes, games like Warhawk and Jumping Flash on the PS1 are more likely to give you a stress headache now than to please the eyes, but simple, clean polygons have their place too. As technically advanced as, for example, Final Fantasy IX was over VII at that time, VII has a simpler look to the character models and I feel is a more pleasing game to look at than IX is in retrospect. Also I can't say that I don't boot up the original Ridge Racer every now and again because I think it is just a cool-looking game, even if it is dated to hell and back

But also, yeah, it's always gonna be cool to see new technology. UE3 used to amaze me in a lot of ways, I remember oohing and ahhing over how great the textures looked in Mirror's Edge, and the new Tomb Raider is a technical marvel

Archsorcerer

I can't add much but from a programming standpoint 2D is easier to do than 3D. Expect more people in the indie scene to experiment with 3D thanks to Unity and other tools in the future.

mcdermott

I think both have their place, and it seems like it's easier for smaller devs to put out games that are both interesting AND appear "polished" in a 2D format (either "8 bit" to include pseudo retro games or clearly hidef 2D).

Scott Pilgrim and Mark of the Ninja being a couple favorites.

I also like 3D rendered 2D games, such as Sonic Generations (half of it at least). So really I think I just like 2D gaming, and miss it sometimes.

Rhan9

There's an element of nostalgia, of course, but there's also the fact that it's easier to make a good "8-bit" game with few resources than a good "3D" game. As such, it is very attractive to various smaller developers, and depending on the hardware in question, the final product might be better if it uses stylized simplistic graphics over higher fidelity graphics that would have consequences on the performance or the visual quality.

There's also the issue that 2D games have more or less reached their apex visual quality-wise, and although 3D quality is getting very high, it's comparatively easier to make a good looking 2D game than a 3D game, especially with few resources.

eobet

3D used to age really poorly because we were in the beginning of the development of it. Same with old 8-bit games which were in the beginning of the development of that. Since most people here probably remember 16-bit rather than 8-bit games, and those were more mature, perhaps that is why they age better. 20 years on from today, however, I think people will look back fondly on the current generation of 3D games too, and the style they had.

(Within 10 years, I believe that polygons will be out and we will have switched to a raytracing solution with point clouds, and then those early titles will age poorly for a number of years and the cycle will continue.)

Behemoth

God, I wish.

Henroid

I wish the thread was asking about sprites / 2D games vs. 3D games because there's a big discussion to be had there, giving merits to each method as well as points of contention. That actually sounds like what the OP is meaning to ask but describes the former as "8 bit" for some reason.

I've heard people describe Minecraft as having a positive nostalgic aesthetic, and I disagree. 3D tech when it began was very ugly, and frames per second were pathetically low. It had nothing to do with artistic freedom / choice and everything to do with technical limitations. The worst was when 3D objects would lack texturing and just be colors. Yikes. Sure, in the moment it was cool, but all the excitement was about how good things will look when they improve on it. It was all about wanting more (not exactly the best sentiment to attach to a nostalgic feel). The Playstation 2 / Gamecube / XBox era was when 3D ran reliably. Even if the textures from games of that era are noticeably lesser when it comes to sharpness and quality compared to current tech, the games running smooth I think let's people see it as not that big of a deal. But that first generation of 3D, I don't know why people were so into it. To me, it's like being into food that's half-prepared/cooked.

Nostalgia isn't a phenomena that video games have a monopoly on - other mediums trigger it (music is a big one for me). Nostalgia will always be desired, it is a euphoric feeling that doesn't require narcotics. That's pretty damn sweet. That said, for people my age (and older) that are into video games, we'll yearn for the "good old days" often. Not just of video games being 'harder' or having a particular look and sound, but the times we could just sit down and absorb content without fear of obligation. As adults, things suck. That's part of why modern 3D games get such a hard time - even when made for enthusiasts like us, they are seen as 'flawed' by the hardest of enthusiasts because they add modern conventions that make the games convenient for people who work for a living or have families to tend to or are generally more social / into other activities.

The kids growing up today with their Playstation 3 and 4 will go through the same thing we are years down the line. I guess they don't have to deal with the up-and-coming portion of the video game industry. I wonder what tomorrow's Jeff Gerstmann and Chris Remo and Cliffy B will have to say about video games when they start to write about and make them.

Anyway, there's a text dump.

kaliyama

A lot of it, I think, is that developing a full 3d game with models require huge devleopment budget,s so they tend to be comparatively low-IQ blockbusters. 2d/"8 bit" games are much easier to produce from an art asset standpoint, and much easier to produce a pretty game with good art direction if you don't have to pay for modelers. So you have games like Bastion or Braid that are gorgeous and not cutting-edge graphically that do well because of their strength in design.

Going for a streamlined art approach gives you more time to work on content and gameplay. Minecraft is a good example there. Similarly, using mature engines - like Baldur's Gate 2/Planescape, lets you focus on content (mostly writing for PST and quests for BG2) that create a richer narrative experience. Fallout 2 and the new Obsidian game both seem to follow this approach by deliberately using mostly older engine tech in order t o focus on what matters. Ditto for Shadowrun.

kaliyama

Henroid wrote: »

I wish the thread was asking about sprites / 2D games vs. 3D games because there's a big discussion to be had there, giving merits to each method as well as points of contention. That actually sounds like what the OP is meaning to ask but describes the former as "8 bit" for some reason.

I've heard people describe Minecraft as having a positive nostalgic aesthetic, and I disagree. 3D tech when it began was very ugly, and frames per second were pathetically low. It had nothing to do with artistic freedom / choice and everything to do with technical limitations. The worst was when 3D objects would lack texturing and just be colors. Yikes. Sure, in the moment it was cool, but all the excitement was about how good things will look when they improve on it. It was all about wanting more (not exactly the best sentiment to attach to a nostalgic feel). The Playstation 2 / Gamecube / XBox era was when 3D ran reliably. Even if the textures from games of that era are noticeably lesser when it comes to sharpness and quality compared to current tech, the games running smooth I think let's people see it as not that big of a deal. But that first generation of 3D, I don't know why people were so into it. To me, it's like being into food that's half-prepared/cooked.

Nostalgia isn't a phenomena that video games have a monopoly on - other mediums trigger it (music is a big one for me). Nostalgia will always be desired, it is a euphoric feeling that doesn't require narcotics. That's pretty damn sweet. That said, for people my age (and older) that are into video games, we'll yearn for the "good old days" often. Not just of video games being 'harder' or having a particular look and sound, but the times we could just sit down and absorb content without fear of obligation. As adults, things suck. That's part of why modern 3D games get such a hard time - even when made for enthusiasts like us, they are seen as 'flawed' by the hardest of enthusiasts because they add modern conventions that make the games convenient for people who work for a living or have families to tend to or are generally more social / into other activities.

The kids growing up today with their Playstation 3 and 4 will go through the same thing we are years down the line. I guess they don't have to deal with the up-and-coming portion of the video game industry. I wonder what tomorrow's Jeff Gerstmann and Chris Remo and Cliffy B will have to say about video games when they start to write about and make them.

Anyway, there's a text dump.

I agree 100% re minecraft. It succeeded in spite of its graphics because it offers its players so much creative autonomy. It would never have been made if it had higher expectations re: graphics.

I am however not sure what you mean by

"'harder' or having a particular look and sound, but the times we could just sit down and absorb content without fear of obligation

That's part of why modern 3D games get such a hard time - even when made for enthusiasts like us, they are seen as 'flawed' by the hardest of enthusiasts because they add modern conventions that make the games convenient for people who work for a living or have families to tend to or are generally more social / into other activities."

Games that allow exploration and creativity can be absorbed at any pace, so I don't see that me having a job means I have no choice but to play a modern fps rail shooter because I am strapped for time. Halfway through new xcom I decided instead to pick up old xcom. I definitely take longer to finish a game as a responsible adult, and I miss the better UI design of new xcom, but I wanted a less linear experience.

Cosmic Osmo is a great classic example of a game that is about consuming content and exploring. There is no reason full fledged adults with other hobbies can't enjoy that game.

What I think has gone on is that as the market for gaming expanded, blockbuster games get bigger budgets but are necessarily dumbed down to appeal to a broader less savvy audience. It's not a console vs PC thing per se, it's the size of the market.

I would expect the gaming market has gotten younger(on the whole) and less smart/tech savvy(getting things running on a c64 or a dos PC were more complex and less user friendly).

Happily, the PC market allows for niche games that appeal to the original gaming demo from the 70s-mid 90s and discerning younger gamers.

For a while, most of the market was a sort of "art house" fare compared to today's blockbuster games. Because gaming doesn't have the same distro limits as movie theaters do, the blockbusters don't displace or threaten the niche games.

This is why net neutrality is important, btw: there is no reason under the current regime that a Comcast or whoever couldn't block steam and only allow origin, which would effectively be like major studios shutting indie movies out of theaters.

UncleSporky

Henroid wrote: »

The worst was when 3D objects would lack texturing and just be colors. Yikes. Sure, in the moment it was cool, but all the excitement was about how good things will look when they improve on it.

Games can still look quite good with this as an intentional design choice, though.

I was watching a cutscene from the original Jak and Daxter and was surprised to see that the characters are very minimally textured, less than I remembered. The animation as they talk and move is of good enough quality that this doesn't even matter, it's got a great cartoon aesthetic.



You don't have to texture everything.

anoffday

I don't think 8 bit games are better than modern 3D games, or vice versa. I love that we have so many graphical styles for games. Back when we were getting 3D with the PS1 and N64, nobody would have come out with a new 8 bit game, because we probably all would have thought they were crazy. But now that we've come as far as we have, I love how developers are revisiting different styles, and I can play new games with 8 bit and 16 bit graphics.

I might be alone in this, but I love the way late 90s PC games looked, like Half Life and Deus Ex, and I'd love for some developers to make games in this style. I know it's not the same as going back to 8 or 16 bit style, and it's more seen as a dated 3D engine, but I still love the way those games look.

Lindsay Lohan

The main reason I'm drawn to 8 bit style games is that my gaming time tends to be more limited nowadays. The 8 bit aesthetic generally also comes with simplified gameplay and often a shorter overall playtime which fits my current limited gametime. Also, for me it does have the warm fuzzy rose colored glasses of nostalgia where seeing it brings me back to my childhood and just makes me happy. I'd wager that feeling is a big part of my age group (I'm 36) being drawn to the style.

Darmak

anoffday wrote: »

I don't think 8 bit games are better than modern 3D games, or vice versa. I love that we have so many graphical styles for games. Back when we were getting 3D with the PS1 and N64, nobody would have come out with a new 8 bit game, because we probably all would have thought they were crazy. But now that we've come as far as we have, I love how developers are revisiting different styles, and I can play new games with 8 bit and 16 bit graphics.

I might be alone in this, but I love the way late 90s PC games looked, like Half Life and Deus Ex, and I'd love for some developers to make games in this style. I know it's not the same as going back to 8 or 16 bit style, and it's more seen as a dated 3D engine, but I still love the way those games look.

I kind of like how a lot of DOS games looked, or games like Might and Magic 4&5, Simon the Sorcerer, etc. Just something about that style of art really does it for me, and I love when modern games recreate that look.

mcdermott

Darmak wrote: »

anoffday wrote: »

I don't think 8 bit games are better than modern 3D games, or vice versa. I love that we have so many graphical styles for games. Back when we were getting 3D with the PS1 and N64, nobody would have come out with a new 8 bit game, because we probably all would have thought they were crazy. But now that we've come as far as we have, I love how developers are revisiting different styles, and I can play new games with 8 bit and 16 bit graphics.

I might be alone in this, but I love the way late 90s PC games looked, like Half Life and Deus Ex, and I'd love for some developers to make games in this style. I know it's not the same as going back to 8 or 16 bit style, and it's more seen as a dated 3D engine, but I still love the way those games look.

I kind of like how a lot of DOS games looked, or games like Might and Magic 4&5, Simon the Sorcerer, etc. Just something about that style of art really does it for me, and I love when modern games recreate that look.

Yeah, that style gets amazing when you up the colors and resolution a bit.

UncleSporky

Low poly done well can look cool.





I really respect the effort it takes to design a good model and texture within stricter limitations.

Jephery

I love Super Mario Brothers 3's graphics.

Oh and Kirby's Adventure!

Drake

Yeah, there's a lot of games from early 3D where I love the look. Descent's pure voxel environments populated with 2D sprites scratches both itches for me. DOS Quake's gritty look is a great example of great low res texture work combined with low poly models. Muckyfoot's games have 3D that has held up really well. Urban Chaos and Startopia are both still pretty easy on the eyes and come from the early 3D days. These were also ex-Bullfrog guys who were really into the Demo scene, so they had a ton of experience making 3D graphics work for them from a purely aesthetic standpoint. I think the issues that most early 3D games have is the art design.

Now for those of you who enjoy chocolate in their peanut butter, one of my favorite Quake sourceports actually mashes the two up. Qbism Super 8 is worth checking out if you like crunchy pixels on blocky models.

Darmak

Are those pillars supposed to be curved, or is that person using some stupid fov setting?

edit: shit, I forgot to mention I really like how it looks and I'll probably put it on my thumbdrive and play Quake all day at work today.

editedit: or not, I guess they assume I know how to get it to work but I don't and there's zero documentation that I can find

Robes

It's not necessarily more popular, but the thing is it offers variety. After playing so many games on a 3-d plane it feels fun and refreshing to play games on a 2-d plane again and vice versa. That and nostalgia. 8-16bit games do fill me with happy vibes because of gaming during my childhood.

Drake

Darmak wrote: »

Are those pillars supposed to be curved, or is that person using some stupid fov setting?

edit: shit, I forgot to mention I really like how it looks and I'll probably put it on my thumbdrive and play Quake all day at work today.

editedit: or not, I guess they assume I know how to get it to work but I don't and there's zero documentation that I can find

The pillars are being curved by a fisheye lens effect, it's a neat effect for demos and screenshots.

Installation is pretty simple, just extract the latest archive into your quake installation, then make a shortcut to the qbism exe and go to town.

Darmak

That's probably what I did wrong, I just extracted it into it's own folder somewhere. When I get home I'll put it in my Quake directory, do you know if it works with the Steam version?

Drake

Yeah, it should work with it no problem.

LBD_Nytetrayn

I'm neutral; my biggest beef with 3D was when they tried to supplant 2D gaming with it, rather than expand with it.

I'm much happier in a world where I can have my 2D and 3D Mario games, thank you. 3D alone just wasn't cutting it, but at the same time, I'd hate to see 3D disappear in favor of 2D as well. They each do different things well.

Beyond that, 8-bit is just a style to me at this point. Some good memories attached to it, but without a good game underneath...

Deaderinred

thread title is misleading. not a single actual 8bit game is shown. 16bit sure...

edit: ooooh dat quake screenshot is getting me all kinds of hot.