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Eh, if it's a year after something's release, and someone is complaining about spoilers, they're the ones being gooses at that point, IMO.
nah,
That was my opinion; not a fact. :P
people decide to watch things that previously hadn't been on their radar all the time, or get interested in a series 3-4 movies/books/seasons in and go back to get caught up before the new one comes out. I wouldn't blame or get mad at the person spoiling stuff for them like I would someone spoiling a brand new release, but at the same time it is so damn easy to hide shit behind spoiler tags there's no reason not to do it.
spoilers for Iron Man, Incredible Hulk, Avengers, and The Consultant short:
So at the end of Iron Man, Nick Fury showed up and asked Tony to join the Avengers initiative which lead into Incredible Hulk where Tony shows up to mention that they're putting a team together but this runs contrary to the Avengers where Black Widow mentions SHIELD had been keeping people off Banner's trailer especially given that in Incredible Hulk we see General Ross's team is using SHIELD's datebases to find Banner but it's eventually explained in the short film The Consultant where We find out they were trying to recruit the Abomination from Ross, not the Hulk and in the comic where we find out that the Security Council went over Nick Fury's head and gave Ross the codes to the SHIELD database.
That was fairly easy and anyone who hasn't seen all of them and cares about spoilers to any one wouldn't get anything out of reading the rest anyways
but you know, good try coming up with a ridiculous scenario in which being considerate would be too much work.
People being spoilerphobes is one thing. I try to respect that the best I can. But "media blackout" people I just... look, I like stuff. I am going to talk about stuff I like. If you don't want to be spoiled, I get that, but if your "pure experience" involves you yelling at people for posting trailers or speculating on stuff that might be in something or getting excited about casting reports, I think you need to get the crap off the internet until the thing you are blacking yourself out for comes out and you finally indulge in it.
A little while back I got yelled at in a chat thread for excitedly posting the new Star Trek Into Darkness trailer and speculating on who Benedict Cumberbatch's character might be. Not spoiling, speculating, because I have no idea who his character is supposed to be and they're deliberately keeping it a mystery. He's in the movie, he's the bad guy, and he's gotten an "official" name in interviews and shit but that's as far as it goes.
And some polite fellow in that thread started yelling at me because they're on media blackout and while they didn't click on the trailer video, I didn't put my speculation in spoiler tags, which let them know something about the plot of the movie in which stuff gets blown up and shit gets real bad for Kirk and his buddies.
Like, that's the sort of insane extent things get to on the internet. It's absurd.
Eh, if it's a year after something's release, and someone is complaining about spoilers, they're the ones being gooses at that point, IMO.
nah,
That was my opinion; not a fact. :P
people decide to watch things that previously hadn't been on their radar all the time, or get interested in a series 3-4 movies/books/seasons in and go back to get caught up before the new one comes out. I wouldn't blame or get mad at the person spoiling stuff for them like I would someone spoiling a brand new release, but at the same time it is so damn easy to hide shit behind spoiler tags there's no reason not to do it.
So at the end of Iron Man
Nick Fury showed up and asked Tony to join the Avengers initiative
which lead into Incredible Hulk
Where Tony shows up to mention that they're putting a team together
but this runs contrary to the Avengers where
Black Widow mentions SHIELD had been keeping people off Banner's trailer
especially given that in Incredible Hulk
we see General Ross's team is using SHIELD's datebases to find Banner
but it's eventually explained in the short film The Consultant where
We find out they were trying to recruit the Abomination from Ross, not the Hulk
and in the comic where
we find out that the Security Council went over Nick Fury's head and gave Ross the codes to the SHIELD database.
That was a pain in the ass and looks ugly as hell.
or you could've just
put it all in one spoiler tag
+4
Theodore Flooseveltproud parent of eight beautiful girls and shalmelodorne (which is currently being ruled by a woman (awesome role model for my daughters)) #dornedadRegistered Userregular
what needs to be spoiled is contextual but I always thought fairly obvious
like in this thread, talking about iron man 1 or 2 in general doesn't require you to spoil every dang thing, because we're talking about sequels and crossovers several years after their release. In other threads, be more careful about what you're giving away and considering common knowledge. If you're ever talking about a big twist or the end of any movie, spoil it.
it isn't hard!
0
UnbrokenEvaHIGH ON THE WIREBUT I WON'T TRIP ITRegistered Userregular
on the other hand, I know people are going to make mistakes with regards to spoiler tags, so I do try to aoid spoilers in situations where I care about being spoilered. I stayed the hell out of the Bioshock Infinite thread until I had finished the game for that reason. It does work both ways, but both sides should try to help the other rather than saying "it's been long enough, open spoilers for everyone" or "that just came out, I'm going to assume everyone will spoiler tag perfectly".
I got infracted once a few weeks after Dragon Age: Origins came out because I talked about the City Elf origin without spoiler tags. The origin stories are literally the first twenty minutes of the game or so, and people had talked about general elements of the plot like becoming a Grey Warden and stuff that happen later in the story with impunity, so I didn't realize that talking about the first twenty minutes of the game would constitute a spoiler two weeks after the game came out.
However, the argument as to why I was infracted was because it was a spoiler for people who didn't choose that option, so even if someone is 3/4 into the game at this point they haven't seen that material because they played a dwarf or a mage or something so I am spoiling a second playthrough for them.
When you are dealing with a "choice game" like The Walking Dead or Mass Effect or Dragon Age, in which different playthroughs can come out pretty differently based on different choices, it can be hard to really judge where a spoiler tag is necessary. Mass Effect 3 is a good example where the Day 1 DLC was for an extra party member, and some people considered that party member's name and even existence to be spoilers for that DLC.
Which, if carried forward, makes it a spoiler to talk about what could be in a spoiler tag. Like, if I try to be considerate of people's multiple playthroughs and post something like "Spoiler if you take Javik to Thessia" and then talk about that in a spoiler tag, I can (and did) get some shit for talking about the fact that you go to Thessia or that Javik is a character that exists.
Yeah, some of the stuff that's being kept in spoilers in here isn't just minor hints from the trailers or whatever, but major bits of the plot or ending - whether or not they're real is another question entirely, of course, but still.
Eh, if it's a year after something's release, and someone is complaining about spoilers, they're the ones being gooses at that point, IMO.
nah,
That was my opinion; not a fact. :P
people decide to watch things that previously hadn't been on their radar all the time, or get interested in a series 3-4 movies/books/seasons in and go back to get caught up before the new one comes out. I wouldn't blame or get mad at the person spoiling stuff for them like I would someone spoiling a brand new release, but at the same time it is so damn easy to hide shit behind spoiler tags there's no reason not to do it.
spoilers for Iron Man, Incredible Hulk, Avengers, and The Consultant short:
So at the end of Iron Man, Nick Fury showed up and asked Tony to join the Avengers initiative which lead into Incredible Hulk where Tony shows up to mention that they're putting a team together but this runs contrary to the Avengers where Black Widow mentions SHIELD had been keeping people off Banner's trailer especially given that in Incredible Hulk we see General Ross's team is using SHIELD's datebases to find Banner but it's eventually explained in the short film The Consultant where We find out they were trying to recruit the Abomination from Ross, not the Hulk and in the comic where we find out that the Security Council went over Nick Fury's head and gave Ross the codes to the SHIELD database.
That was fairly easy and anyone who hasn't seen all of them and cares about spoilers to any one wouldn't get anything out of reading the rest anyways
but you know, good try coming up with a ridiculous scenario in which being considerate would be too much work.
Actually, believe it or not, I was being completely serious. I didn't even consider arranging it your way. I guess that's just how my brain works when thinking about that stuff. I look pretty silly in retrospect.
JayKaos: The conversation had moved on from specific Iron man 3 spoilers to spoilers in general. LIke I said in my post, I'm a firm believer of spoiler tagging the shit out of stuff prior and awhile after release.
Undead Scottsman on
0
GustavFriend of GoatsSomewhere in the OzarksRegistered Userregular
I got infracted once a few weeks after Dragon Age: Origins came out because I talked about the City Elf origin without spoiler tags. The origin stories are literally the first twenty minutes of the game or so, and people had talked about general elements of the plot like becoming a Grey Warden and stuff that happen later in the story with impunity, so I didn't realize that talking about the first twenty minutes of the game would constitute a spoiler two weeks after the game came out.
However, the argument as to why I was infracted was because it was a spoiler for people who didn't choose that option, so even if someone is 3/4 into the game at this point they haven't seen that material because they played a dwarf or a mage or something so I am spoiling a second playthrough for them.
When you are dealing with a "choice game" like The Walking Dead or Mass Effect or Dragon Age, in which different playthroughs can come out pretty differently based on different choices, it can be hard to really judge where a spoiler tag is necessary. Mass Effect 3 is a good example where the Day 1 DLC was for an extra party member, and some people considered that party member's name and even existence to be spoilers for that DLC.
Which, if carried forward, makes it a spoiler to talk about what could be in a spoiler tag. Like, if I try to be considerate of people's multiple playthroughs and post something like "Spoiler if you take Javik to Thessia" and then talk about that in a spoiler tag, I can (and did) get some shit for talking about the fact that you go to Thessia or that Javik is a character that exists.
I guess it's nice then that putting something in spoiler tags takes a trivial amount of effort so you can err on the side of caution at absolutely no cost to yourself!
Yeah, some of the stuff that's being kept in spoilers in here isn't just minor hints from the trailers or whatever, but major bits of the plot or ending - whether or not they're real is another question entirely, of course, but still.
So far as I am concerned, anything that isn't speculation and is possibly a leak for something that isn't out yet is a spoiler. If it's some stupid article from Aint It Cool or some shit, even if it has a 0.1% of being true, if some jackhole is purporting it to be a leak or something and you are posting it, it should be a spoiler.
If it's something you or someone else is speculating based on two frames in the trailer, that's not a spoiler. That's made up stuff. If it turns out to be right, then whatever, but it's still not a spoiler.
If it's actual stuff from the advertisements, that's not a spoiler at all. Like, people might feel like trailers ruin films or advertisements give too much away but if a movie's marketing is enough to spoil you before something comes out you should stay the fuck out of threads on the subject.
I got infracted once a few weeks after Dragon Age: Origins came out because I talked about the City Elf origin without spoiler tags. The origin stories are literally the first twenty minutes of the game or so, and people had talked about general elements of the plot like becoming a Grey Warden and stuff that happen later in the story with impunity, so I didn't realize that talking about the first twenty minutes of the game would constitute a spoiler two weeks after the game came out.
However, the argument as to why I was infracted was because it was a spoiler for people who didn't choose that option, so even if someone is 3/4 into the game at this point they haven't seen that material because they played a dwarf or a mage or something so I am spoiling a second playthrough for them.
When you are dealing with a "choice game" like The Walking Dead or Mass Effect or Dragon Age, in which different playthroughs can come out pretty differently based on different choices, it can be hard to really judge where a spoiler tag is necessary. Mass Effect 3 is a good example where the Day 1 DLC was for an extra party member, and some people considered that party member's name and even existence to be spoilers for that DLC.
Which, if carried forward, makes it a spoiler to talk about what could be in a spoiler tag. Like, if I try to be considerate of people's multiple playthroughs and post something like "Spoiler if you take Javik to Thessia" and then talk about that in a spoiler tag, I can (and did) get some shit for talking about the fact that you go to Thessia or that Javik is a character that exists.
I guess it's nice then that putting something in spoiler tags takes a trivial amount of effort so you can err on the side of caution at absolutely no cost to yourself!
Except where the carefully applied labels turn out to be spoilers in and of themselves you get yelled at for anyway, as I just said in my post that you didn't spend half an ass to read.
on the other hand, I know people are going to make mistakes with regards to spoiler tags, so I do try to aoid spoilers in situations where I care about being spoilered. I stayed the hell out of the Bioshock Infinite thread until I had finished the game for that reason. It does work both ways, but both sides should try to help the other rather than saying "it's been long enough, open spoilers for everyone" or "that just came out, I'm going to assume everyone will spoiler tag perfectly".
This is pretty close to my stance; though like I said, I don't feel that it's a "50/50, all the way" split between burden on the spoilers and the spoilees. The burden starts off entirely with the former and eventually as time goes on, the burden entirely falls upon the latter. Again, I follow a "do unto others" stance on this. After a year or so, I no longer presume that it's other people's duty to help keep me protected from spoilers. I may get spoiled at that point, but really, I think it's kind of presumptions to expect EVERYONE ELSE to tiptoe around things because I, or someone like me, hasn't seen it yet at that point.
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UnbrokenEvaHIGH ON THE WIREBUT I WON'T TRIP ITRegistered Userregular
hey, I spent at least 3/4s of an ass reading that, I just bailed on the last sentence
hey, I spent at least 3/4s of an ass reading that, I just bailed on the last sentence
"DLC Squadmate/lategame optional mission spoiler"
Yeah because that's descriptive, and the mission I was talking about wasn't an optional, it's a major turning point in the game's story. Even if it was, "lategame optional mission spoiler" doesn't tell you much if there's more than one of those. Maybe you've played it, maybe you haven't!
Like, it is a catch-22 with some people and it takes very little effort on your part to acknowledge that instead of acting like everyone who you might disagree with is being histrionic, bro.
With some media, and "choice games" are the most prominent of them, it's an incredibly careful and occasionally frustrating balancing act where your labels for your spoiler have to be specific enough so that people who don't want to be spoiled can easily avoid it but not so specific that the label itself is a spoiler because it describes circumstances that in and of themselves are a spoiler.
Sometimes this is obvious. When FFVII was new you wouldn't write a spoiler like
(Spoiler for after Aeris dies)
since that label in and of itself is a spoiler.
But sometimes it's not that linear.
The real issue here is more applicable to video games than films, because with films it's kind of a binary: you either have watched the film or haven't watched the film. With games, you could be ongoing into the game and someone could spoil you for a part you aren't at yet, or spoil you for a part that you haven't experienced in that playthrough because the game has branching storytelling or something.
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UnbrokenEvaHIGH ON THE WIREBUT I WON'T TRIP ITRegistered Userregular
hey, I spent at least 3/4s of an ass reading that, I just bailed on the last sentence
"DLC Squadmate/lategame optional mission spoiler"
Yeah because that's descriptive, and the mission I was talking about wasn't an optional, it's a major turning point in the game's story. Even if it was, "lategame optional mission spoiler" doesn't tell you much if there's more than one of those. Maybe you've played it, maybe you haven't!
Like, it is a catch-22 with some people and it takes very little effort on your part to acknowledge that instead of acting like everyone who you might disagree with is being histrionic, bro.
With some media, and "choice games" are the most prominent of them, it's an incredibly careful and occasionally frustrating balancing act where your labels for your spoiler have to be specific enough so that people who don't want to be spoiled can easily avoid it but not so specific that the label itself is a spoiler because it describes circumstances that in and of themselves are a spoiler.
Sometimes this is obvious. When FFVII was new you wouldn't write a spoiler like
(Spoiler for after Aeris dies)
since that label in and of itself is a spoiler.
But sometimes it's not that linear.
The real issue here is more applicable to video games than films, because with films it's kind of a binary: you either have watched the film or haven't watched the film. With games, you could be ongoing into the game and someone could spoil you for a part you aren't at yet, or spoil you for a part that you haven't experienced in that playthrough because the game has branching storytelling or something.
these forums have made it incredibly easy to hide things behind spoiler tags and if you think there is even a small chance that what you're saying could spoil something for someone it's simple courtesy to spoiler tag it
that said, mistakes happen, something you might not even think of as a potential spoiler could be for someone else. If you're called on an accidental spoiler, just apologize, edit in a spoiler tag, and move on. It's easier than arguing about why you don't feel it's a spoiler and it doesn't make you look like a silly goose.
if someone flipped out at you for the Javik/Thessia thing that would be a little much, but if someone complains it's easy enough to fix it and move on. Ideally they'll be reasonable about their complaint, but you can't control whether someone else is a goose about something, and you can say "yo dude, chill. sorry about the spoiler but you don't need to get mad"
You're not really reading what I'm saying. I'm done. I don't mind arguing but if you're not bothering to acknowledge what I'm saying in favor of repeating the same talking points in order to paint anyone you disagree with as unreasonable, I've got nothing left to say.
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Binary SquidWe all make choicesRegistered Userregular
I'm wondering why wirehead believes travelling through space merits an armed reaction from a peacekeeping force
An alien cop comes over to the intercom of his spaceship.
"Around these parts, we have a little something called the light speed barrier, Mr Stark. Things may work differently where you're from, but we respect the laws of nature."
Cue crazy chase scene.
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UnbrokenEvaHIGH ON THE WIREBUT I WON'T TRIP ITRegistered Userregular
You're using a lot of words and I am reading them and trying to understand but apparently I'm missing something.
you're saying that it's possible to accidentally spoil something in the process of spoiler tagging something, right?
sure, that can happen. probably doesn't happen all that much. I don't think someone should get yelled at for a well-intended accidental spoiler.
if it does happen, you can then fix it based on the complaint received! I'm very specifically saying that no one is going to be perfect about tagging/avoiding spoilers, but that doesn't mean you can't fix it when a mistake is pointed out. I don't think I'm being unreasonable?
even simpler:
try your best to put any potential spoilers in spoiler tags
if you make a mistake, and someone complains (hopefully in a calm, understanding manner), fix it based on their feedback
do not argue with them that it isn't a spoiler because you kind of don't have the ability to decide what is and isn't a spoiler for someone else? All things within reason of course.
0
ButtlordFornicusLord of Bondage and PainRegistered Userregular
hey, I spent at least 3/4s of an ass reading that, I just bailed on the last sentence
"DLC Squadmate/lategame optional mission spoiler"
Yeah because that's descriptive, and the mission I was talking about wasn't an optional, it's a major turning point in the game's story. Even if it was, "lategame optional mission spoiler" doesn't tell you much if there's more than one of those. Maybe you've played it, maybe you haven't!
Like, it is a catch-22 with some people and it takes very little effort on your part to acknowledge that instead of acting like everyone who you might disagree with is being histrionic, bro.
With some media, and "choice games" are the most prominent of them, it's an incredibly careful and occasionally frustrating balancing act where your labels for your spoiler have to be specific enough so that people who don't want to be spoiled can easily avoid it but not so specific that the label itself is a spoiler because it describes circumstances that in and of themselves are a spoiler.
Sometimes this is obvious. When FFVII was new you wouldn't write a spoiler like
(Spoiler for after Aeris dies)
since that label in and of itself is a spoiler.
But sometimes it's not that linear.
The real issue here is more applicable to video games than films, because with films it's kind of a binary: you either have watched the film or haven't watched the film. With games, you could be ongoing into the game and someone could spoil you for a part you aren't at yet, or spoil you for a part that you haven't experienced in that playthrough because the game has branching storytelling or something.
these forums have made it incredibly easy to hide things behind spoiler tags and if you think there is even a small chance that what you're saying could spoil something for someone it's simple courtesy to spoiler tag it
that said, mistakes happen, something you might not even think of as a potential spoiler could be for someone else. If you're called on an accidental spoiler, just apologize, edit in a spoiler tag, and move on. It's easier than arguing about why you don't feel it's a spoiler and it doesn't make you look like a silly goose.
if someone flipped out at you for the Javik/Thessia thing that would be a little much, but if someone complains it's easy enough to fix it and move on. Ideally they'll be reasonable about their complaint, but you can't control whether someone else is a goose about something, and you can say "yo dude, chill. sorry about the spoiler but you don't need to get mad"
he's not talking about spoilering things he's talking about labelling your spoilers
like it's the difference between MAN CAN YOU BELIEVE THING HAPPENED just posted in the open and MAN CAN YOU BELIEVE (spoilers for hopefully vague description of the point where the thing happens) and then an actual spoilered spoiler and then someone getting mad about your description because it apparently wasn't vague enough
you're not gonna please all the people all the time
the solution is, as always, don't be a dick on purpose, but that doesn't just because they think you're wrong, you're wrong
You're using a lot of words and I am reading them and trying to understand but apparently I'm missing something.
you're saying that it's possible to accidentally spoil something in the process of spoiler tagging something, right?
sure, that can happen. probably doesn't happen all that much. I don't think someone should get yelled at for a well-intended accidental spoiler.
if it does happen, you can then fix it based on the complaint received! I'm very specifically saying that no one is going to be perfect about tagging/avoiding spoilers, but that doesn't mean you can't fix it when a mistake is pointed out. I don't think I'm being unreasonable?
even simpler:
try your best to put any potential spoilers in spoiler tags
if you make a mistake, and someone complains (hopefully in a calm, understanding manner), fix it based on their feedback
do not argue with them that it isn't a spoiler because you kind of don't have the ability to decide what is and isn't a spoiler for someone else? All things within reason of course.
Except that has basically nothing to do with what I am saying. You are trying to make your own point while arguing with me about the point I am making, when they're separate issues.
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ButtlordFornicusLord of Bondage and PainRegistered Userregular
You're using a lot of words and I am reading them and trying to understand but apparently I'm missing something.
you're saying that it's possible to accidentally spoil something in the process of spoiler tagging something, right?
sure, that can happen. probably doesn't happen all that much. I don't think someone should get yelled at for a well-intended accidental spoiler.
if it does happen, you can then fix it based on the complaint received! I'm very specifically saying that no one is going to be perfect about tagging/avoiding spoilers, but that doesn't mean you can't fix it when a mistake is pointed out. I don't think I'm being unreasonable?
even simpler:
try your best to put any potential spoilers in spoiler tags
if you make a mistake, and someone complains (hopefully in a calm, understanding manner), fix it based on their feedback
do not argue with them that it isn't a spoiler because you kind of don't have the ability to decide what is and isn't a spoiler for someone else? All things within reason of course.
his point is that you have no way of knowing what's going to make some people freak the fuck out because they accidentalyl found out that nonspecific things happen
I really dislike the idea that there is some time limit on spoilers, cos I actually haven't gotten round to watching every movie ever made even if it's over 10 years old
I am as big a believer in the "virgin experience" as anyone, but I do think there is a point where you kind of give up your right to get mad.
That's not to say there's a point where it's okay to suddenly just intentionally start spoiling you, but you can't expect people, especially in large group settings like a web forum or twitter to forever bend over backwards and cater their cultural discussions around your spoiler zones.
Like I have still not seen The Sopranos, I want to see it, I plan to see it. And my preference would be to keep as much of it unspoiled as possible, but I ain't gonna get mad and throw a fit if someone casually talks about the plot points of a show that's been off the air for over 6 years.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
+5
Theodore Flooseveltproud parent of eight beautiful girls and shalmelodorne (which is currently being ruled by a woman (awesome role model for my daughters)) #dornedadRegistered Userregular
You're not really reading what I'm saying. I'm done. I don't mind arguing but if you're not bothering to acknowledge what I'm saying in favor of repeating the same talking points in order to paint anyone you disagree with as unreasonable, I've got nothing left to say.
There are reasonable limitations; games take longer to complete than movies, so there's less of a binary seen it/haven't seen it even in the sense of completing the main quest or whatever. But you can still couch "Javik/Thessia" in nested spoilers of "main quest 3/4 of the way through" or however far you guess yourself to be in order to help somewhat, even if it's as simple as double spoiling your post so that someone knows what they're getting into when they click (something that may give away the most basic of plot details, like going to Thessia). People should know how sensitive they are to such things--if you don't want to know anything, then get out of the ME thread. If you don't want to know names of planets coming up, don't click any spoilers that could be at all suspect!
Javik is tough, simply because the game's marketing doesn't really even let you keep it a secret. The only way he's going to affect you is if you buy him, and it says he's the last prothean on the description for the dang DLC. He kinda falls into the "given away in the trailer" kinda info that's impossible to ignore unless you aren't exposed to the game in any capacity.
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ButtlordFornicusLord of Bondage and PainRegistered Userregular
I really dislike the idea that there is some time limit on spoilers, cos I actually haven't gotten round to watching every movie ever made even if it's over 10 years old
I am as big a believer in the "virgin experience" as anyone, but I do think there is a point where you kind of give up your right to get mad.
That's not to say there's a point where it's okay to suddenly just intentionally start spoiling you, but you can't expect people, especially in large group settings like a web forum or twitter to forever bend over backwards and cater their cultural discussions around your spoiler zones.
Like I have still not seen The Sopranos, I want to see it, I plan to see it. And my preference would be to keep as much of it unspoiled as possible, but I ain't gonna get mad and throw a fit if someone casually talks about the plot points of a show that's been off the air for over 6 years.
I CAN ONLY HIT AGREE ONCE THIS FORUM SUCKS (funfact i won't actually click agree despite agreeing with this post)
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UnbrokenEvaHIGH ON THE WIREBUT I WON'T TRIP ITRegistered Userregular
You're using a lot of words and I am reading them and trying to understand but apparently I'm missing something.
you're saying that it's possible to accidentally spoil something in the process of spoiler tagging something, right?
sure, that can happen. probably doesn't happen all that much. I don't think someone should get yelled at for a well-intended accidental spoiler.
if it does happen, you can then fix it based on the complaint received! I'm very specifically saying that no one is going to be perfect about tagging/avoiding spoilers, but that doesn't mean you can't fix it when a mistake is pointed out. I don't think I'm being unreasonable?
even simpler:
try your best to put any potential spoilers in spoiler tags
if you make a mistake, and someone complains (hopefully in a calm, understanding manner), fix it based on their feedback
do not argue with them that it isn't a spoiler because you kind of don't have the ability to decide what is and isn't a spoiler for someone else? All things within reason of course.
Except that has basically nothing to do with what I am saying. You are trying to make your own point while arguing with me about the point I am making, when they're separate issues.
then help me understand what you're saying! I said what I thought your argument was specifically to give you the opportunity to correct me on it. I even phrased it as a question! I am trying to have a conversation about this but you're just saying "NOPE YOU'RE NOT READING WHAT I'M SAYING" when I am reading and clearly misunderstanding you.
I really dislike the idea that there is some time limit on spoilers, cos I actually haven't gotten round to watching every movie ever made even if it's over 10 years old
I am as big a believer in the "virgin experience" as anyone, but I do think there is a point where you kind of give up your right to get mad.
That's not to say there's a point where it's okay to suddenly just intentionally start spoiling you, but you can't expect people, especially in large group settings like a web forum or twitter to forever bend over backwards and cater their cultural discussions around your spoiler zones.
Like I have still not seen The Sopranos, I want to see it, I plan to see it. And my preference would be to keep as much of it unspoiled as possible, but I ain't gonna get mad and throw a fit if someone casually talks about the plot points of a show that's been off the air for over 6 years.
This is pretty much what I meant to say, said in a way much better than I could have.
Undead Scottsman on
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UnbrokenEvaHIGH ON THE WIREBUT I WON'T TRIP ITRegistered Userregular
I really dislike the idea that there is some time limit on spoilers, cos I actually haven't gotten round to watching every movie ever made even if it's over 10 years old
I am as big a believer in the "virgin experience" as anyone, but I do think there is a point where you kind of give up your right to get mad.
That's not to say there's a point where it's okay to suddenly just intentionally start spoiling you, but you can't expect people, especially in large group settings like a web forum or twitter to forever bend over backwards and cater their cultural discussions around your spoiler zones.
Like I have still not seen The Sopranos, I want to see it, I plan to see it. And my preference would be to keep as much of it unspoiled as possible, but I ain't gonna get mad and throw a fit if someone casually talks about the plot points of a show that's been off the air for over 6 years.
sure! and if someone got mad and threw a fit that would be silly of them!
but if someone said "hey man, watch the spoilers?" I think it would be reasonable/considerate to say "dang, sorry about that" and edit in tags
You're using a lot of words and I am reading them and trying to understand but apparently I'm missing something.
you're saying that it's possible to accidentally spoil something in the process of spoiler tagging something, right?
sure, that can happen. probably doesn't happen all that much. I don't think someone should get yelled at for a well-intended accidental spoiler.
if it does happen, you can then fix it based on the complaint received! I'm very specifically saying that no one is going to be perfect about tagging/avoiding spoilers, but that doesn't mean you can't fix it when a mistake is pointed out. I don't think I'm being unreasonable?
even simpler:
try your best to put any potential spoilers in spoiler tags
if you make a mistake, and someone complains (hopefully in a calm, understanding manner), fix it based on their feedback
do not argue with them that it isn't a spoiler because you kind of don't have the ability to decide what is and isn't a spoiler for someone else? All things within reason of course.
Except that has basically nothing to do with what I am saying. You are trying to make your own point while arguing with me about the point I am making, when they're separate issues.
then help me understand what you're saying! I said what I thought your argument was specifically to give you the opportunity to correct me on it. I even phrased it as a question! I am trying to have a conversation about this but you're just saying "NOPE YOU'RE NOT READING WHAT I'M SAYING" when I am reading and clearly misunderstanding you.
My point is that the issue is more complicated than some (including you) are making it out to be, and that the people who get mad about spoilers are not universally the height of reasonable behavior, and that it can actually be enormously tedious to be constantly catering to whatever extreme end of that attitude you might encounter on This Olde Internette
You're like "Well just put it in a spoiler tag to be sure, and if you do it wrong, apologize!", as if the onus on me in the face of people being unreasonable is to never argue with them and cater to their whimsy. I'm saying that it's not.
If I think it's a really good work of art that benefits from the suprises, like The Wire or GoT or Unusual suspects I'll be good about spoilers. But if it's like, some lame movie and it's been out a year already(cough cough Chronicle) then fuck it.
So nobody dies until 1/3rd of the way into the show?
no i mean that if you did the math and figured out which episodes happen immediately after an episode wherein someone dies they would be approx. 66 2/3s % of the show
the other 33 1/3 would be ones where people die
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ButtlordFornicusLord of Bondage and PainRegistered Userregular
James Gandolfini dies in the first five minutes of the first episode and is a sarcastic ghost for the rest of the series.
i love the sopranos but i will always wish for the world where they stuck with the original idea for the show, which was that the vast majority of the show is told in flashback with therapy sessions as a framing device, and it's much more focused on the black humor
On the other hand getting spoilered with the season 2 finale of breaking bad is what finally convinced me to watch that show
It defintely robed that season of a lot of impact for me
Posts
why would there be a button exclusively for your posts
but you know, good try coming up with a ridiculous scenario in which being considerate would be too much work.
A little while back I got yelled at in a chat thread for excitedly posting the new Star Trek Into Darkness trailer and speculating on who Benedict Cumberbatch's character might be. Not spoiling, speculating, because I have no idea who his character is supposed to be and they're deliberately keeping it a mystery. He's in the movie, he's the bad guy, and he's gotten an "official" name in interviews and shit but that's as far as it goes.
And some polite fellow in that thread started yelling at me because they're on media blackout and while they didn't click on the trailer video, I didn't put my speculation in spoiler tags, which let them know something about the plot of the movie in which stuff gets blown up and shit gets real bad for Kirk and his buddies.
Like, that's the sort of insane extent things get to on the internet. It's absurd.
or you could've just
put it all in one spoiler tag
like in this thread, talking about iron man 1 or 2 in general doesn't require you to spoil every dang thing, because we're talking about sequels and crossovers several years after their release. In other threads, be more careful about what you're giving away and considering common knowledge. If you're ever talking about a big twist or the end of any movie, spoil it.
it isn't hard!
However, the argument as to why I was infracted was because it was a spoiler for people who didn't choose that option, so even if someone is 3/4 into the game at this point they haven't seen that material because they played a dwarf or a mage or something so I am spoiling a second playthrough for them.
When you are dealing with a "choice game" like The Walking Dead or Mass Effect or Dragon Age, in which different playthroughs can come out pretty differently based on different choices, it can be hard to really judge where a spoiler tag is necessary. Mass Effect 3 is a good example where the Day 1 DLC was for an extra party member, and some people considered that party member's name and even existence to be spoilers for that DLC.
Which, if carried forward, makes it a spoiler to talk about what could be in a spoiler tag. Like, if I try to be considerate of people's multiple playthroughs and post something like "Spoiler if you take Javik to Thessia" and then talk about that in a spoiler tag, I can (and did) get some shit for talking about the fact that you go to Thessia or that Javik is a character that exists.
Actually, believe it or not, I was being completely serious. I didn't even consider arranging it your way. I guess that's just how my brain works when thinking about that stuff. I look pretty silly in retrospect.
JayKaos: The conversation had moved on from specific Iron man 3 spoilers to spoilers in general. LIke I said in my post, I'm a firm believer of spoiler tagging the shit out of stuff prior and awhile after release.
Puns are a religion, Brandon Graham is my prophet.
I guess it's nice then that putting something in spoiler tags takes a trivial amount of effort so you can err on the side of caution at absolutely no cost to yourself!
So far as I am concerned, anything that isn't speculation and is possibly a leak for something that isn't out yet is a spoiler. If it's some stupid article from Aint It Cool or some shit, even if it has a 0.1% of being true, if some jackhole is purporting it to be a leak or something and you are posting it, it should be a spoiler.
If it's something you or someone else is speculating based on two frames in the trailer, that's not a spoiler. That's made up stuff. If it turns out to be right, then whatever, but it's still not a spoiler.
If it's actual stuff from the advertisements, that's not a spoiler at all. Like, people might feel like trailers ruin films or advertisements give too much away but if a movie's marketing is enough to spoil you before something comes out you should stay the fuck out of threads on the subject.
Except where the carefully applied labels turn out to be spoilers in and of themselves you get yelled at for anyway, as I just said in my post that you didn't spend half an ass to read.
So, thanks for that.
This is pretty close to my stance; though like I said, I don't feel that it's a "50/50, all the way" split between burden on the spoilers and the spoilees. The burden starts off entirely with the former and eventually as time goes on, the burden entirely falls upon the latter. Again, I follow a "do unto others" stance on this. After a year or so, I no longer presume that it's other people's duty to help keep me protected from spoilers. I may get spoiled at that point, but really, I think it's kind of presumptions to expect EVERYONE ELSE to tiptoe around things because I, or someone like me, hasn't seen it yet at that point.
"DLC Squadmate/lategame optional mission spoiler"
Yeah because that's descriptive, and the mission I was talking about wasn't an optional, it's a major turning point in the game's story. Even if it was, "lategame optional mission spoiler" doesn't tell you much if there's more than one of those. Maybe you've played it, maybe you haven't!
Like, it is a catch-22 with some people and it takes very little effort on your part to acknowledge that instead of acting like everyone who you might disagree with is being histrionic, bro.
With some media, and "choice games" are the most prominent of them, it's an incredibly careful and occasionally frustrating balancing act where your labels for your spoiler have to be specific enough so that people who don't want to be spoiled can easily avoid it but not so specific that the label itself is a spoiler because it describes circumstances that in and of themselves are a spoiler.
Sometimes this is obvious. When FFVII was new you wouldn't write a spoiler like
(Spoiler for after Aeris dies)
since that label in and of itself is a spoiler.
But sometimes it's not that linear.
The real issue here is more applicable to video games than films, because with films it's kind of a binary: you either have watched the film or haven't watched the film. With games, you could be ongoing into the game and someone could spoil you for a part you aren't at yet, or spoil you for a part that you haven't experienced in that playthrough because the game has branching storytelling or something.
if someone flipped out at you for the Javik/Thessia thing that would be a little much, but if someone complains it's easy enough to fix it and move on. Ideally they'll be reasonable about their complaint, but you can't control whether someone else is a goose about something, and you can say "yo dude, chill. sorry about the spoiler but you don't need to get mad"
I unwillingly experienced this when seeing Iron Man 2. It was not an experience I want to repeat.
*ugh* It enhanced nothing.
An alien cop comes over to the intercom of his spaceship.
Cue crazy chase scene.
you're saying that it's possible to accidentally spoil something in the process of spoiler tagging something, right?
sure, that can happen. probably doesn't happen all that much. I don't think someone should get yelled at for a well-intended accidental spoiler.
if it does happen, you can then fix it based on the complaint received! I'm very specifically saying that no one is going to be perfect about tagging/avoiding spoilers, but that doesn't mean you can't fix it when a mistake is pointed out. I don't think I'm being unreasonable?
even simpler:
try your best to put any potential spoilers in spoiler tags
if you make a mistake, and someone complains (hopefully in a calm, understanding manner), fix it based on their feedback
do not argue with them that it isn't a spoiler because you kind of don't have the ability to decide what is and isn't a spoiler for someone else? All things within reason of course.
he's not talking about spoilering things he's talking about labelling your spoilers
like it's the difference between MAN CAN YOU BELIEVE THING HAPPENED just posted in the open and MAN CAN YOU BELIEVE (spoilers for hopefully vague description of the point where the thing happens) and then an actual spoilered spoiler and then someone getting mad about your description because it apparently wasn't vague enough
you're not gonna please all the people all the time
the solution is, as always, don't be a dick on purpose, but that doesn't just because they think you're wrong, you're wrong
Except that has basically nothing to do with what I am saying. You are trying to make your own point while arguing with me about the point I am making, when they're separate issues.
his point is that you have no way of knowing what's going to make some people freak the fuck out because they accidentalyl found out that nonspecific things happen
I am as big a believer in the "virgin experience" as anyone, but I do think there is a point where you kind of give up your right to get mad.
That's not to say there's a point where it's okay to suddenly just intentionally start spoiling you, but you can't expect people, especially in large group settings like a web forum or twitter to forever bend over backwards and cater their cultural discussions around your spoiler zones.
Like I have still not seen The Sopranos, I want to see it, I plan to see it. And my preference would be to keep as much of it unspoiled as possible, but I ain't gonna get mad and throw a fit if someone casually talks about the plot points of a show that's been off the air for over 6 years.
There are reasonable limitations; games take longer to complete than movies, so there's less of a binary seen it/haven't seen it even in the sense of completing the main quest or whatever. But you can still couch "Javik/Thessia" in nested spoilers of "main quest 3/4 of the way through" or however far you guess yourself to be in order to help somewhat, even if it's as simple as double spoiling your post so that someone knows what they're getting into when they click (something that may give away the most basic of plot details, like going to Thessia). People should know how sensitive they are to such things--if you don't want to know anything, then get out of the ME thread. If you don't want to know names of planets coming up, don't click any spoilers that could be at all suspect!
Javik is tough, simply because the game's marketing doesn't really even let you keep it a secret. The only way he's going to affect you is if you buy him, and it says he's the last prothean on the description for the dang DLC. He kinda falls into the "given away in the trailer" kinda info that's impossible to ignore unless you aren't exposed to the game in any capacity.
I CAN ONLY HIT AGREE ONCE THIS FORUM SUCKS (funfact i won't actually click agree despite agreeing with this post)
then help me understand what you're saying! I said what I thought your argument was specifically to give you the opportunity to correct me on it. I even phrased it as a question! I am trying to have a conversation about this but you're just saying "NOPE YOU'RE NOT READING WHAT I'M SAYING" when I am reading and clearly misunderstanding you.
This is pretty much what I meant to say, said in a way much better than I could have.
sure! and if someone got mad and threw a fit that would be silly of them!
but if someone said "hey man, watch the spoilers?" I think it would be reasonable/considerate to say "dang, sorry about that" and edit in tags
My point is that the issue is more complicated than some (including you) are making it out to be, and that the people who get mad about spoilers are not universally the height of reasonable behavior, and that it can actually be enormously tedious to be constantly catering to whatever extreme end of that attitude you might encounter on This Olde Internette
You're like "Well just put it in a spoiler tag to be sure, and if you do it wrong, apologize!", as if the onus on me in the face of people being unreasonable is to never argue with them and cater to their whimsy. I'm saying that it's not.
If I think it's a really good work of art that benefits from the suprises, like The Wire or GoT or Unusual suspects I'll be good about spoilers. But if it's like, some lame movie and it's been out a year already(cough cough Chronicle) then fuck it.
no i mean that if you did the math and figured out which episodes happen immediately after an episode wherein someone dies they would be approx. 66 2/3s % of the show
the other 33 1/3 would be ones where people die
i love the sopranos but i will always wish for the world where they stuck with the original idea for the show, which was that the vast majority of the show is told in flashback with therapy sessions as a framing device, and it's much more focused on the black humor
I've said too much
It defintely robed that season of a lot of impact for me