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[The Senate] is the Ur-Problem of America.

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Posts

  • DerrickDerrick Registered User regular
    Apparently Reid is pissed that McConnell broke the handshake agreement and is threatening to really do something about the fillibuster for real this time guys

    Taking odds on Reid actually really doing something

    McConnell didn't stop filibuster reform. Democrats stopped filibuster reform.

    Steam and CFN: Enexemander
  • nexuscrawlernexuscrawler Registered User regular
    Thing I'm the msot pissed at the GOP for is nominating Sharon Angle

    We'd have one less seat and Majoirty leader Dick Durbin who might actually do something

  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    Wouldn't have mattered. He didn't have the votes, by most accounts. Because Carl Levin and a couple other Dems are dicks who value their individual power over the institution being capable of doing things.

    The idea that your vote is a moral statement about you or who you vote for is some backwards ass libertarian nonsense. Your vote is about society. Vote to protect the vulnerable.
  • override367override367 ALL minions Registered User regular
    Derrick wrote: »
    Apparently Reid is pissed that McConnell broke the handshake agreement and is threatening to really do something about the fillibuster for real this time guys

    Taking odds on Reid actually really doing something

    McConnell didn't stop filibuster reform. Democrats stopped filibuster reform.

    well the dems are probably going to lose the senate in 2014, and the presidency in 2016, without the filibuster abortion will be banned nationwide, obamacare repealed, and medicare a voucher program within a week

  • DerrickDerrick Registered User regular
    Derrick wrote: »
    Apparently Reid is pissed that McConnell broke the handshake agreement and is threatening to really do something about the fillibuster for real this time guys

    Taking odds on Reid actually really doing something

    McConnell didn't stop filibuster reform. Democrats stopped filibuster reform.

    well the dems are probably going to lose the senate in 2014, and the presidency in 2016, without the filibuster abortion will be banned nationwide, obamacare repealed, and medicare a voucher program within a week

    And then they would lose the next set of elections handily.

    A major problem we have is that we allow Republicans to be obstructionists and not actually implement and take responsibility for their policies. When they do ("legitimate rape" etc) they lose badly.

    I'd rather the country get exactly what it votes for. If we, as a country, vote in a bunch of Republicans and they screw the country? Fine. Now the cards are on the table and it's much harder to spin the bullshit. Maybe that will wake people up to what their vote means and that both sides are not exactly the same.

    The filibuster has effectively broken our democracy. No less than that. We are limping along hoping for a miracle at this point, when we should just fix the damn problem and take whatever consequences come from it.

    Steam and CFN: Enexemander
  • override367override367 ALL minions Registered User regular
    Legitimate rape isn't a policy thing

    Republicans lose when they're too stupid to keep their mouth shut about how bad their policies are

    Their policies actually being terrible don't seem to have any causal link to them winning or losing elections, unless the fabric of the economy crumbles while they're in power

  • Eat it You Nasty Pig.Eat it You Nasty Pig. tell homeland security 'we are the bomb'Registered User regular
    one of the big problems created by the senate (including the filibuster, but several other senate peculiarities) is that the policy conclusions reached by the body are fairly independent of the intent of the electorate.

    In parliamentary systems a government is elected, and it sucks or it doesn't for a couple years and is judged on its record. But while american politicians campaign in similar ways (vote for me to get health care/ban abortion/lower taxes/etc.), the structure of the legislature makes it almost impossible to tie results to individual elections. Which is why republicans get to spend thirty years running against abortion even though there's never more than 30-40% popular support for their actual policy on the subject, and why some form of universal health care can be on every major presidential platform for fifty years (hint: because it's popular) and never get anywhere.

    I'd much rather occasionally elect a bad government and deal with the consequences than have this mess.

    hold your head high soldier, it ain't over yet
    that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
  • AbsalonAbsalon Lands of Always WinterRegistered User regular
    Welp, incredibly annoying that one dude deciding not to run has just seriously increased the chances of the GOP getting 50 in the senate. Meanwhile, women in Texas are spat on and Zimmerman walks. It's been a shitty week to be alive. I am just waiting for Obama to sneak in the Keystone pipeline.

  • TaramoorTaramoor Storyteller Registered User regular
    edited July 2013
    Derrick wrote: »
    Apparently Reid is pissed that McConnell broke the handshake agreement and is threatening to really do something about the fillibuster for real this time guys

    Taking odds on Reid actually really doing something

    McConnell didn't stop filibuster reform. Democrats stopped filibuster reform.

    well the dems are probably going to lose the senate in 2014, and the presidency in 2016, without the filibuster abortion will be banned nationwide, obamacare repealed, and medicare a voucher program within a week

    Don't worry.

    Reid says that if the Republicans promise that THIS time they won't filibuster the nominees, then he won't touch the filibuster.

    I forget which outcome I'm rooting for at this point.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/as-senate-nears-filibuster-showdown-reid-says-republicans-can-still-avoid-fight/2013/07/15/4dbc54ce-ed65-11e2-bed3-b9b6fe264871_story.html

    Taramoor on
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  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    mcdermott wrote: »
    I'm rooting for a Republican Senate, who then promptly eliminate the filibuster, because Democrats need to learn the fucking lesson.

    And damn the consequences! As a resident of a state with a Republican legislature, no thanks.

    The idea that your vote is a moral statement about you or who you vote for is some backwards ass libertarian nonsense. Your vote is about society. Vote to protect the vulnerable.
  • jmcdonaldjmcdonald I voted, did you? DC(ish)Registered User regular
    mcdermott wrote: »
    I'm rooting for a Republican Senate, who then promptly eliminate the filibuster, because Democrats need to learn the fucking lesson.

    I concur. it's not like the republicans will hold the senate for more than a cycle with their current antics. Let them get what they want, and then let the wrath of the populace come down like a vengeful god.

  • Captain CarrotCaptain Carrot Alexandria, VARegistered User regular
    Taramoor, apparently Reid said that if none of the seven are filibustered, he'll shelve reform. I think everyone knows that's not going to happen, since Republicans are philosophically opposed to having the government work, particularly when it comes to consumers or labor.

  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    Schweitzer's not running, so GOP is probably favored. Wheee!

    Silver seconds that belief btw.

    The idea that your vote is a moral statement about you or who you vote for is some backwards ass libertarian nonsense. Your vote is about society. Vote to protect the vulnerable.
  • ViskodViskod Registered User regular
    Just wait until Sarah Palin gets to the Senate.

  • Irond WillIrond Will WARNING: NO HURTFUL COMMENTS, PLEASE!!!!! Cambridge. MAModerator Mod Emeritus
    Taramoor, apparently Reid said that if none of the seven are filibustered, he'll shelve reform. I think everyone knows that's not going to happen, since Republicans are philosophically opposed to having the government work, particularly when it comes to consumers or labor.

    reid won't do shit

    he can't even threaten convincingly

    Wqdwp8l.png
  • archivistkitsunearchivistkitsune Registered User regular
    As far as who has the Senate, I say that is still up in the air. The GOP was favored to take it this time around and most were assured that they would gain seats in 2012, instead they lost seats because of their own inability to not say stupid shit.

    Sadly, I'm not convinced Reid will do anything. If he does, I say he should just kill the filibuster for everything, since the GOP is threatening to do just that if he changes anything, the next time they are in control of the Senate. Maybe it's bullshit and they'll chicken out, but at this point, those are fightin words and might well go for the throat (I'm sure a number of Judicial nominees will appreciate not having to guess where the crazy pants GOP will let them get their appointments or not over bullshit that has nothing to do with those nominees competence).

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  • emp123emp123 Registered User regular
    Maybe he's just trying to lure McConnell into a room so he can choke him

  • tbloxhamtbloxham Registered User regular
    Derrick wrote: »
    Apparently Reid is pissed that McConnell broke the handshake agreement and is threatening to really do something about the fillibuster for real this time guys

    Taking odds on Reid actually really doing something

    McConnell didn't stop filibuster reform. Democrats stopped filibuster reform.

    well the dems are probably going to lose the senate in 2014, and the presidency in 2016, without the filibuster abortion will be banned nationwide, obamacare repealed, and medicare a voucher program within a week

    The dems will only lose the presidency in 2016 if there is enormous corruption and gerrymandering somehow. I'm talking 55% D 45% R by supporters, and D loses situation. Actual support for republicans has gone off a cliff in most blue states, while support for D's in red states just keeps on growing as old people die and more minorities move in.

    "That is cool" - Abraham Lincoln
  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    tbloxham wrote: »
    Derrick wrote: »
    Apparently Reid is pissed that McConnell broke the handshake agreement and is threatening to really do something about the fillibuster for real this time guys

    Taking odds on Reid actually really doing something

    McConnell didn't stop filibuster reform. Democrats stopped filibuster reform.

    well the dems are probably going to lose the senate in 2014, and the presidency in 2016, without the filibuster abortion will be banned nationwide, obamacare repealed, and medicare a voucher program within a week

    The dems will only lose the presidency in 2016 if there is enormous corruption and gerrymandering somehow. I'm talking 55% D 45% R by supporters, and D loses situation. Actual support for republicans has gone off a cliff in most blue states, while support for D's in red states just keeps on growing as old people die and more minorities move in.

    tbloxham meet Shelby County

    The idea that your vote is a moral statement about you or who you vote for is some backwards ass libertarian nonsense. Your vote is about society. Vote to protect the vulnerable.
  • a5ehrena5ehren AtlantaRegistered User regular
    edited July 2013
    tbloxham wrote: »
    Derrick wrote: »
    Apparently Reid is pissed that McConnell broke the handshake agreement and is threatening to really do something about the fillibuster for real this time guys

    Taking odds on Reid actually really doing something

    McConnell didn't stop filibuster reform. Democrats stopped filibuster reform.

    well the dems are probably going to lose the senate in 2014, and the presidency in 2016, without the filibuster abortion will be banned nationwide, obamacare repealed, and medicare a voucher program within a week

    The dems will only lose the presidency in 2016 if there is enormous corruption and gerrymandering somehow. I'm talking 55% D 45% R by supporters, and D loses situation. Actual support for republicans has gone off a cliff in most blue states, while support for D's in red states just keeps on growing as old people die and more minorities move in.

    tbloxham meet Shelby County

    The only pre-clearance states that have been close in recent Presidential elections were VA and NC. Losing VA would obviously be a problem for any Democratic candidate, but the real effect of Shelby is going to be down-ticket.

    a5ehren on
  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    Well, also you don't have to fear being thrown onto the pre-clearance sections anymore by the courts. And various areas in the rest of the country in swing states were still under pre-clearance.

    The idea that your vote is a moral statement about you or who you vote for is some backwards ass libertarian nonsense. Your vote is about society. Vote to protect the vulnerable.
  • HamurabiHamurabi MiamiRegistered User regular
    I'm a little unclear as to the scope of this proposed rules change for appointment confirmations.

    Is this strictly for this legislative session, or a permanent change?

  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    Doesn't matter as the GOP wouldn't agree because no one wants to tell John McCain he lost five years ago.

    The idea that your vote is a moral statement about you or who you vote for is some backwards ass libertarian nonsense. Your vote is about society. Vote to protect the vulnerable.
  • HamurabiHamurabi MiamiRegistered User regular
    Doesn't matter as the GOP wouldn't agree because no one wants to tell John McCain he lost five years ago.

    I don't understand this post. Could you clarify?

  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    He wants to make the appointments himself. Because he's the President.

    The idea that your vote is a moral statement about you or who you vote for is some backwards ass libertarian nonsense. Your vote is about society. Vote to protect the vulnerable.
  • Loren MichaelLoren Michael Registered User regular
    Derrick wrote: »
    Apparently Reid is pissed that McConnell broke the handshake agreement and is threatening to really do something about the fillibuster for real this time guys

    Taking odds on Reid actually really doing something

    McConnell didn't stop filibuster reform. Democrats stopped filibuster reform.

    Republicans and a handful of Democrats stopped filibuster reform.

    Status quo bias suits the Republicans just fine.

    a7iea7nzewtq.jpg
  • HamurabiHamurabi MiamiRegistered User regular
    He wants to make the appointments himself. Because he's the President.

    The President's choices are insufficiently Maverickey.

  • a5ehrena5ehren AtlantaRegistered User regular
    Well, also you don't have to fear being thrown onto the pre-clearance sections anymore by the courts. And various areas in the rest of the country in swing states were still under pre-clearance.

    I'm sure DNC lawyers are watching every election law coming out of PA, OH, and VA very closely. I can't think of any other states that are relevant to the Electoral College that would try anything.

    The real effect of Shelby (on the national level) is going to be that the few remaining southern House Democrats are going to be gone if it isn't fixed by the next re-districting.

  • DoctorArchDoctorArch Curmudgeon Registered User regular
    edited July 2013
    He wants to make the appointments himself. Because he's the President.

    I have always been amused (read: "annoyed as fuck") that Democratic presidents are supposed to consult with the people they beat in the election while Republican presidents should never do that because it's stupid, they won after all, why would they do such a thing?

    DoctorArch on
    Switch Friend Code: SW-6732-9515-9697
  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    edited July 2013
    a5ehren wrote: »
    Well, also you don't have to fear being thrown onto the pre-clearance sections anymore by the courts. And various areas in the rest of the country in swing states were still under pre-clearance.

    I'm sure DNC lawyers are watching every election law coming out of PA, OH, and VA very closely. I can't think of any other states that are relevant to the Electoral College that would try anything.

    The real effect of Shelby (on the national level) is going to be that the few remaining southern House Democrats are going to be gone if it isn't fixed by the next re-districting.

    Michigan, Wisconsin.

    enlightenedbum on
    The idea that your vote is a moral statement about you or who you vote for is some backwards ass libertarian nonsense. Your vote is about society. Vote to protect the vulnerable.
  • tbloxhamtbloxham Registered User regular
    a5ehren wrote: »
    Well, also you don't have to fear being thrown onto the pre-clearance sections anymore by the courts. And various areas in the rest of the country in swing states were still under pre-clearance.

    I'm sure DNC lawyers are watching every election law coming out of PA, OH, and VA very closely. I can't think of any other states that are relevant to the Electoral College that would try anything.

    The real effect of Shelby (on the national level) is going to be that the few remaining southern House Democrats are going to be gone if it isn't fixed by the next re-districting.

    Michigan, Wisconsin.

    Even the most brutal republican 'legal' cheating can only swing the numbers a few %. Barring some huge resurgence in support, the Republicans would have to manage to stage an election which North Korea would be ashamed of in order to win the next election, since by then their support will have dropped off a % or two more.

    "That is cool" - Abraham Lincoln
  • archivistkitsunearchivistkitsune Registered User regular
    a5ehren wrote: »
    Well, also you don't have to fear being thrown onto the pre-clearance sections anymore by the courts. And various areas in the rest of the country in swing states were still under pre-clearance.

    I'm sure DNC lawyers are watching every election law coming out of PA, OH, and VA very closely. I can't think of any other states that are relevant to the Electoral College that would try anything.

    The real effect of Shelby (on the national level) is going to be that the few remaining southern House Democrats are going to be gone if it isn't fixed by the next re-districting.

    Michigan, Wisconsin.

    I'd probably add Florida to the list. Even if it isn't the one that puts someone over, GOP losing it makes all the less likely for them to win at all.

  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    edited July 2013
    Yeah, Florida is kind of a big one.

    Anyway, the Senate broke the filibuster on Cordray. In exchange for two new NLRB appointees, I guess. We'll see if the GOP follows through with their promise for a vote on them (I will believe that when I see it). But Cordray's through to an actual confirmation vote which should sail through, which is certainly a positive.

    enlightenedbum on
    The idea that your vote is a moral statement about you or who you vote for is some backwards ass libertarian nonsense. Your vote is about society. Vote to protect the vulnerable.
  • AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    NYMag has a good piece about Warren's push to resurrect Glass-Stegall as being part of a long game against Wall Street.

    XBL: Nox Aeternum / PSN: NoxAeternum / NN:NoxAeternum / Steam: noxaeternum
  • a5ehrena5ehren AtlantaRegistered User regular
    Reid caved again, but he at least is getting votes for a whole 7 positions this time. 8->

  • jungleroomxjungleroomx It's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovels Registered User regular
    Reid caves in more than Bogota. He's fucking useless and a wimp. Elizabeth Warren has shown more backbone than 99% of our elected officials.

  • syndalissyndalis Getting Classy On the WallRegistered User, Loves Apple Products, Transition Team regular
    a5ehren wrote: »
    Reid caved again, but he at least is getting votes for a whole 7 positions this time. 8->
    It wasn't a cave. He somehow, despite being himself, showed that the Democrats are the majority party. Two nominees dropped, 5 getting up and down votes, and the two getting dropped can be replaced with new nominees that will get up and down votes. He threatened to press the button, there was some hemming and hawing, and an acceptable compromise came out of the senate which allowed them to move forward on votes.

    Reid has also openly said that the button is still right the fuck there, should they need to have a vote again. this is EXACTLY how they need to do this shit moving forward, until the republicans get tired of being backed into a corner and having to negotiate instead of starting at negotiations and acting like fucking adults.

    This was a win. Not for the dems or the pubs, but rather the process, and the hope that things may actually start happening in the senate chamber.

    SW-4158-3990-6116
    Let's play Mario Kart or something...
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