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Falling out with friend over ad-hoc rental agreement.
Robos A Go Go
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
So I had an ad-hoc agreement to sublet a female friend's room from May 15th-September 1st, which would free her up financially to take an exciting summer job at a national park. She'd also told me that I could move into her departing roommate's room in September, which is something I kept in mind when I agreed to pay the established rate of $845 per month.
However, after writing her future-dated checks for the 3 1/2 months in advance, she told me that I couldn't replace the departing roommate anymore. At that point I told her that I'd need her to offer me a lower rate since losing the option to renew meant I'd be getting less out of the deal. I told her all of this in her room on Sunday night, and I did so in the calmest, least imposing way I could while assuring her I wasn't mad, but she still became quite upset and repeatedly said that she'd screwed everything up. She also said she couldn't tell me a new figure until Monday, because she needed to redo her budget, so I had her give me back the checks and then left.
The next day she curtly told me through a text to meet her for a meeting that night, and I told her that I'd be comfortable paying whatever rate she needed me to pay to make her budget work, because I didn't want to interfere with her ability to take the summer job. I also told her that I wasn't concerned about the money, and that I was really just hurt that I'd only been told about losing the option to renew after I'd already written her the checks. (Worse yet, I learned about losing the option to renew because she'd offhandedly mentioned it that night to someone else while I was nearby, not because she told me directly. In fact, if we hadn't spontaneously made plans to hang out that night, I probably wouldn't have learned about the change until after I'd already moved in.) Because of this, and because she'd held back on telling me that the landlord hadn't sanctioned the sublet until just a week or two prior, I truly felt like she had been disregarding my needs and taking my help for granted.
Nonetheless, she responded by saying that she'd felt bullied and extorted during our conversation the previous night, and that I was no longer welcome to move into her place. This was the day before I was supposed to fly out for a visit to my parents, and my pre-existing rental agreement was ending that night, but luckily my room hadn't been rented out and I was able to avoid homelessness and leave my belongings in a safe place.
I avoided any trouble for myself, but I still feel really shitty about this whole thing. While I believe I was treated unfairly, I'm starting to feel like I really did cross a line by confronting her that night about the rent. At one point she told me that she'd have to discuss making a new rate with her roommates, and I dismissed that by saying our rental agreement was just between us, which she interpreted as me trying to isolate her. Also, despite trying to seem unimposing, she was still a girl alone in a room with a much taller man, and that can feel threatening even if the man means no harm. At the time I didn't feel like I had any other options since she already had my checks and I was flying out in 30 hours, but in retrospect I should've just told her about my hurt feelings rather than making it about money, which she took as an implicit threat to her plans for the summer.
She also texted me to say that I needed to give my keys back that night, in a way that made it seem like she and her roommates no longer felt safe because of me. I was horrified by the implication that I might actually break into their home and do something terrible, and that really made me rethink what I'd done the previous night. The last thing I'd ever want to do is make a person feel unsafe, and that's especially true of a female friend.
My friends are telling me that I acted reasonably, but of course the girl and her roommates think otherwise, and so I feel like I need an objective opinion about this whole thing to grasp how badly I may've gone wrong here. I feel like I derailed her plans by making it impossible for her to sublet for me, because even if the decision to end the deal was hers it's not like I could reasonably live with her roommates if they felt unsafe around me. A mutual friend of ours also says she may've exaggerated my behavior to my roommates, though, since she'd previously come into work in tears a few times alleging that her roommate is an abusive alcoholic. The question then is whether or not my actions merited this reaction from her and her roommates, or if it's possible that it was fomented by heightened tensions and a degree of embellishment. Did I really cross a line here, or am I not responsible for how poorly everything turned out?
TLDR; Made plans to sublet for 3 1/2 months from a female friend under the expectation that I would be allowed to renew in September, and when she backtracked on that I tried to get her to lower the rent only to have her say I was bullying/extorting her and then terminate the deal.
However, after writing her future-dated checks for the 3 1/2 months in advance, she told me that I couldn't replace the departing roommate anymore. At that point I told her that I'd need her to offer me a lower rate since losing the option to renew meant I'd be getting less out of the deal. I told her all of this in her room on Sunday night, and I did so in the calmest, least imposing way I could while assuring her I wasn't mad, but she still became quite upset and repeatedly said that she'd screwed everything up. She also said she couldn't tell me a new figure until Monday, because she needed to redo her budget, so I had her give me back the checks and then left.
The next day she curtly told me through a text to meet her for a meeting that night, and I told her that I'd be comfortable paying whatever rate she needed me to pay to make her budget work, because I didn't want to interfere with her ability to take the summer job. I also told her that I wasn't concerned about the money, and that I was really just hurt that I'd only been told about losing the option to renew after I'd already written her the checks. (Worse yet, I learned about losing the option to renew because she'd offhandedly mentioned it that night to someone else while I was nearby, not because she told me directly. In fact, if we hadn't spontaneously made plans to hang out that night, I probably wouldn't have learned about the change until after I'd already moved in.) Because of this, and because she'd held back on telling me that the landlord hadn't sanctioned the sublet until just a week or two prior, I truly felt like she had been disregarding my needs and taking my help for granted.
Nonetheless, she responded by saying that she'd felt bullied and extorted during our conversation the previous night, and that I was no longer welcome to move into her place. This was the day before I was supposed to fly out for a visit to my parents, and my pre-existing rental agreement was ending that night, but luckily my room hadn't been rented out and I was able to avoid homelessness and leave my belongings in a safe place.
I avoided any trouble for myself, but I still feel really shitty about this whole thing. While I believe I was treated unfairly, I'm starting to feel like I really did cross a line by confronting her that night about the rent. At one point she told me that she'd have to discuss making a new rate with her roommates, and I dismissed that by saying our rental agreement was just between us, which she interpreted as me trying to isolate her. Also, despite trying to seem unimposing, she was still a girl alone in a room with a much taller man, and that can feel threatening even if the man means no harm. At the time I didn't feel like I had any other options since she already had my checks and I was flying out in 30 hours, but in retrospect I should've just told her about my hurt feelings rather than making it about money, which she took as an implicit threat to her plans for the summer.
She also texted me to say that I needed to give my keys back that night, in a way that made it seem like she and her roommates no longer felt safe because of me. I was horrified by the implication that I might actually break into their home and do something terrible, and that really made me rethink what I'd done the previous night. The last thing I'd ever want to do is make a person feel unsafe, and that's especially true of a female friend.
My friends are telling me that I acted reasonably, but of course the girl and her roommates think otherwise, and so I feel like I need an objective opinion about this whole thing to grasp how badly I may've gone wrong here. I feel like I derailed her plans by making it impossible for her to sublet for me, because even if the decision to end the deal was hers it's not like I could reasonably live with her roommates if they felt unsafe around me. A mutual friend of ours also says she may've exaggerated my behavior to my roommates, though, since she'd previously come into work in tears a few times alleging that her roommate is an abusive alcoholic. The question then is whether or not my actions merited this reaction from her and her roommates, or if it's possible that it was fomented by heightened tensions and a degree of embellishment. Did I really cross a line here, or am I not responsible for how poorly everything turned out?
TLDR; Made plans to sublet for 3 1/2 months from a female friend under the expectation that I would be allowed to renew in September, and when she backtracked on that I tried to get her to lower the rent only to have her say I was bullying/extorting her and then terminate the deal.
Robos A Go Go on
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Really, the kicker for me if the "Making you homeless, instantly, because she changed the deal" part. The changing the deal part was poor communication from her but you sound quite willing to work something out with both parties interests in mind. She vetoed the entire deal, at the last moment, in a way that would have been completely illegal if you were doing this with real contracts.
Put another way, I see where you were treating her as a friend. I do not see where she ever treated you as one.
I don't know about that. I mean, if I hadn't hung out with her that night, I don't see why everything wouldn't have gone through as planned. And I'm not sure she can find a new person to sublet by the 15th, especially if she needs someone to pay for half of the month of May in order to make her budget work.
She needed the subletting agreement much more than I did, and I worry the only reason she'd have given it up is if I did sincerely scare her.
https://twitter.com/Hooraydiation
However, I agree with Devout and mts that she doesn't really sound like a friend, at least not one with an especially great amount of empathy.
Dude, she was completely fucking you on the deal and was shady as hell wrt you not having a place in September but that not being worth mentioning to you. When exactly was she going to tell you about that? If your friendship was of any value at all to this person she would have called you immediately when the September room was off the table.
As for the "I feel unsafe" nonsense. If you weren't yelling or threatening and were TALKING BUSINESS like you represent, even if you were a bit UNDERSTANDABLY peeved, that sounds like a load of bull. She pushed the right buttons if she's managed to convince you that you might be the bad guy here.
Also, what in the fuck is this? She wanted to see if her roommates would pick up the slack for her Summer Adventure?
Either you are way over analyzing the intimidation factor here and her perspective is completely different. If that is the case then you should let the whole situation go as miscommunication and have a heart to heart with your friend. I even underlined in the 3rd quote where you reflected on this and two friends could begin clearing up the situation.
However, In the second quote you are really setting a tone that this person may have serious issues of her own. Is this possibly true? If so or not, nothing you did was inappropriate or placing someone of the opposite sex in a inappropriate situation. Are you friends? Do you have a reputation for being overly aggressive around women? If the answer are Yes and No then toss this gender issue right out the window because you did nothing wrong in that respect.
I think the first quote tells you all you really need to know. If its a gender issue or otherwise, do you really want to live with someone who is going to play the bullied and extorted card rather than discuss it further? You seemed to have made every attempt to discuss this non-threateningly and accommodate her summer plans without being a push over or her door mat.
TLDR: she either isn't really your friend or "then you should let the whole situation go as miscommunication and have a heart to heart with your friend."
honestly if I were you I'd have immediately cancelled the future dated checks, told them I would pay month to month in the future and immediately started looking at options to move out.
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
Read the second sentence of the OP.
Seconded you should cancel the checks tho. You should be able to easily wire money if you have a large bank now as they provide for inter-account transfers.
And in the future always sign a binding lease agreement that clearly stipulates the terms of the lease for both parties.
Then you asked about a lesser rental price given a lesser service was provided. That's an entirely reasonable thing to ask. And you say you asked calmly in a business-like fashion. That's the correct way to deal with business issues between friends.
Then she flipped out and accused you of stuff you never did. Stuff she, quite frankly, has done to you. You're not the one doing extortion when she's the one agreeing on a price for a service then cutting the service and expecting the same price. You're not the one bullying her when she's cancelling your housing plans with a single day notice and leaving you homeless. And you're not the one who's wronger her when she's the one who's been changing the plans with no concern to how it would affect you or even the common courtesy of informing you.
I hope you either got them back or got them cancelled?
That's just so far in the future and not the problem here, I was saying this right after Eat it's comments which seemed besides the point.
Living with this person isn't the problem, just having a conversation seems to be too much for her at this point.
And thanks for the perspective, guys. I agree that it is better that I didn't end up subletting from her, much less living with her. It wouldn't be possible anyway, since I had to agree to four more months at my current place to secure housing before my flight.
I also already apologized, but I don't think I want to reconcile with her because it would just be too uncomfortable.
https://twitter.com/Hooraydiation
It doesn't sound like anything you did was the least bit unreasonable, chalk it up, apologize if she felt intimidated but let her know that you didn't appreciate what she did. Chalk it up to experience. And move on.
Next time, advice would be to have some form of a contract ahead of time, but informal stuff happens.
Which really just goes to show that introducing money into relationships can have terrible consequences. Not your fault, and hopefully you can reconcile eventually, but at least you got it out of the way earlier rather than later.
Losing the option to renew was related to the deal in my eyes, but I can understand that she may not have made that connection herself. She may've thought that we just had a sublet agreement, and the bit about renewing was a separate issue that would be between me and the landlord rather than her and me.
But it wasn't landlord who told me I couldn't renew, and so taking that option away felt really personal to me. She told me it was too maintain an all-female household, which made me feel unwelcome. It was like I would just be tolerated for a few months to finance her, and then afterward they'd be done with me.
But the roommate who'd be sharing the apartment with us told me after all this that she'd liked me and looked forward to getting to know me, so I've started to think that maybe my friend just wasn't comfortable living with me herself even though she made the offer in the first place. If so, I wish she'd told me that, because I'd have understood. I also would've been more sensitive in my dealings with her.
In any case, I didn't just use the renewal issue to justify lowering the rate. I also cited the fact that it wasn't a legit sublet involving the landlord, which made it riskier. You wouldn't pay the same price for a contractual and non contractual arrangement, with the latter creating the possibility of being kicked out without getting my money back.
https://twitter.com/Hooraydiation
And, to be fair, it also sounds like you may have some person feelings feeding into your reaction as well ("...made me feel like unwelcome. It was like I would just be tolerated for a few months to finance her"). So, again, chalk up to a lesson learned and hopefully you guys can get past this.
There might have been a miscommunication here. It could be that she regarded your replacing her roommate in September as a possible future deal that you two could negotiate later and that she reserved the right to change her mind on this at any time, whereas you took it as a part of the deal you just agreed to. In other words, when you two shook hands, she thought you were only formally agreeing to sublet for the summer, whereas you thought you were agreeing to sublet for the summer AND jump onto the lease in the fall.
It's little miscommunications, assumptions, and "things left unsaid" that can lead to big misunderstandings later. From your perspective you were simply renegotiating the terms of the agreement (because to you, signing on to the lease was part of the agreement, and when she reneged on that you had the right to a lower rate) whereas from her perspective, you were bringing in outside concerns in an attempt to extort her (because to her, signing on to the lease was a separate matter from the sublet agreement, and it was unfair of you to attempt to tie these two discrete negotiations together).
The lesson here is that with any negotiation, it's important to be explicit and if possible GET THINGS IN WRITING. If you ensure that you're on the same page as the other person, you won't end up fighting between two different interpretations of the same agreement later.
That said, from your description she's being pretty immature and unempathetic, and frankly she sounds like a bit of a drama queen. If you've calmly explained your position to her and apologized for making her feel uncomfortable, you've done all you can do. Chalk it up to experience and move on.
She was thinking about her budget, I was thinking about renewal, and neither of us knew what was important to the other.
https://twitter.com/Hooraydiation