The new forums will be named Coin Return (based on the most recent vote)! You can check on the status and timeline of the transition to the new forums here.
The Guiding Principles and New Rules document is now in effect.
[PA Comic] Monday, May 13, 2013 - Realness
Geth
LegionPerseus VeilRegistered User, Moderator, Penny Arcade Staff, Vanilla Staff vanilla
LegionPerseus VeilRegistered User, Moderator, Penny Arcade Staff, Vanilla Staff vanilla
Posts
Wait, what did I say? I mean the game is still fucking going with new sets and tournaments in spite of no physical cards having been made in over a decade.
That is significantly less likely with a virtual card game.
if the game ends officially they can continue playing so long as the card data is out there
there already exist programs to play virtual card games
Given that my interest in a game is likely to dry up long before the game shuts down, I reckon the benefits of digimal outweigh the drawbacks for me. If nothing else, time and space for a physical game is just increasingly unlikely in my adult life.
Still, there is something very compelling about a physical game card.
Also is Haven a made up game? Google is coming up blank.
Trade offs, eh.
Regardless, the point Tycho's making is that the players potentially have little to no control over whether the game continues to exist or not. With physical cards, the game can continue so long as the cards (or the info on the cards) do. With a completely digital game, the most you can hope for is:
1. Someone is able to retrieve and store the actual card data, or
2. Someone is writing the card info down
Either one is not particularly hope-inspiring.
And assuming the data is available, you still have the problems of (re)creating a working game interface (which I think would count as trademark infringement if the card assets are reused) and/or of making a functioning network after the official system has been disabled. That's a lot of work.
just somewhere where there are pictures of all the cards
which if there is any community at all there will be
then import that information into lackeyccg
I have stayed the hell away from Digical CCGs as a result of this. I know that someday, my WoW character is going to be deleted. And with it will come 6 years of "winning the lottery," so to speak, as I went through dungeons and earned loot and won the rolls/systems that our guild used to determine who got what. In that case, I was paying $15/mo for the lottery. Digital CCGs would go much, MUCH higher than that if they got their hooks into me, and with that same "poof" aspect.
@-Tal, you are basically describing using Proxies.. which is fine. But I can use proxies for any game. I don't think it translates exactly to this scenario, as it seems much more about the artifice of the lottery feeling with the digital product. If you have the ability to make proxies and play the game,then you aren't getting that same rush.
you might not have the same rush but my point here is that the game is not completely gone just because it's no longer officially supported
We can test this immediately - Has anyone archived the Facebook / MySpace games that have been taken down?
Who would want to? The target audience just moves to the next dungheap and forgets about thr last one
Yeah, kind of a bleak affair for a Monday morning... "Don't get too attached to your digimal CCG's, that shit can cease to exist at a moment's notice!"
It's like a bi-polar reaction to their own Hex boners.
That's all well and fine but I'm still.
There was one CCG I played on facebook. Forget the name, but it had a pretty significant following. I find it pretty unlikely anyone managed to preserve it before it died off, to Henroid's point.
Did anyone play the Everquest CCG? I still enjoy logging into it and doing the campaign puzzles from time to time.
Subject matter aside, this was a really phoned in comic (text-wise). And I'm never the one who rushes here to bitch about everything.
It really depends on the commitment of the fanbase. If MtGO went down tomorrow and every physical card disappears with it, you'd still be able to play no problem.
My friend has Dominion but we always played with the online fan made client because it was more convenient.
If I had to venture a guess, I would say the game being discussed is Might & Magic: Duel of Champions (which has a faction known as Haven).
But ultimately who cares? I haven't played magic in years and years and I don't really have any desire to, and if the cards were destroyed in a flood or something I can't say it'd have any impact on me.
This is kinda the same way I feel about 'online only' games. I used to 'worry' that someday steam would get bought out or just die off and I'd lose access to all the stuff I bought on there, but if I'm being honest I could lose access to 90% of it today and I'd never notice the difference. And even in that situation I feel relatively confident that any truly 'classic' game I own will either continue to digitally exist or be preserved (if not improved, i.e. SS2, deus ex, etc) through the hard work of various enthusiasts.
In general the desire to 'own' something and store it somewhere forever is an impulse I am trying to rid myself of, and as it pertains to media entertainment I'm perfectly happy at this point to continue on a semi-permanent transactional basis.
also, why is there a blonde in a swimsuit walking down the street behind them? Are they at like, a beachfront coffee shop or something?
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
It's not the first MMORPG they've done this with, either. Auto Assault, Exteel, and Tabula Rasa were also NCSoft MMORPGs that got not only killed but the licencing actively sat upon so that nobody else can do anything with it ever.
Most MMORPGs that get snuffed out never really make it out of their first two years. City of Heroes was an extreme case where the game had been around for nine years and was still profitable. However, for complex Korean taxation reasons, NCSoft decided that City of Heroes was worth more dead than alive.
It was pretty upsetting for me, because I had played the game since it's closed beta days and it had become more than just a video game for me; it was a hobby. It was a game I developed storylines and content for via its internal Architect mission creator system, a game I had enjoyed for years with my friends, and within a few months it was suddenly just gone from my life.
The comparison I made at the time was that it was as if a company like Games Workshop had not only decided they were going to discontinue making new miniatures and rules for Warhammer, they were going to come to your house and melt down your miniatures so you can never play it ever again.
And that's the kind of point Tycho is making in this comic: Do you really want to invest your time and money and enjoyment into a game that, without warning or recourse, can be snatched from you in its entirety never to be able to be enjoyed again?
Because I kinda don't.
MMOs are kind of a weird case because there's like, ongoing development and such. In lots of cases there literally is content that gets 'snatched away,' never to be enjoyed again
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
Other MMOs have lived on even past when the publisher decided to no longer continue supporting it (or was unable to do so because they folded), because they either sold the licence off to someone else or they just didn't care very much about pursuing some sort of half-assed legal action against the fanbase if they tried to continue to support it on their own.
NCSoft are an example of a company that not only strangles their own games (sometimes while still in the crib, relatively speaking) but they have a policy of sitting on the content and licenses and software and rebuking serious offers to acquire them, and aggressively pursue efforts by fans to continue the game on their own.
It's one of the main reasons I don't play MMORPGs anymore. I like picking up my old games from time to time and playing them. I like being able to revisit old favorites. Any affection I were to develop for a MMO (or, as relevant to the comic, a digital CCG) could be easily dashed by selfish publishers who would kill something and make $0 from it than risk anyone who isn't them making one penny.
I'm not talking about commitment or willingness at all. Again, "is it possible to archive the games and get them operational when the services they run on are shut down?" is the whole question here I'm wondering about (my takeaway from the comic - stretching it beyond CCGs). Digital content is weird like that and I guess CCGs are the best way to explain it. When you have physical cards they last as long as you care for them to last. When you have access to digital content you have that access as long as the provider decides.
I know this is grossly simplified and ignores a whole pile of "things" that you can but for your account in a MMORPG (extra character slots, vanity items, etc) but in general on one system it is clear that you are renting time on a server, and like all renters you can be served notice and evicted. On the other you've been given the illusion that's you purchased items that are yours when they are not.
I made a game, it has penguins in it. It's pay what you like on Gumroad.
Currently Ebaying Nothing at all but I might do in the future.
Of course it's possible (specifically for CCGs), it depends entirely on if the fanbase cares enough.
Right now I have a fully functional third-party client that's installed locally for Magic and a database with every single card ever printed up until the point I stopped updating. If Wizards literally went bankrupt tomorrow AND every physical card spontaneously combusted, people can carry on playing without much trouble.
I imagine any CCG with a significant following these days is going to have a third-party wiki with full texts spoilers of every card; we're not exactly digging for dinosaur fossils here.
edit: Well as far as gameplay goes anyways, I'm sure some people will be put off by the idea of using full proxies. YMMV