Finally [Final Fantasy] Thread has Something New to Talk About!

Enlong

Ah. That guy. Tomato. He is also the guy who headed the Mother 3 translation project. He's very good.

chocobolicious

KiTA wrote: »

chocobolicious wrote: »

Which, might I note, is at 1280x800 display with 216ppi.

Which is exactly one screen / aspect ratio / ppi combination out of the dozens or hundreds that they'd have to target. Heck, the official developers guide suggests aiming for 480x320 as your "official" resolution.

Here's some thought experiments using NES pixmap tiles and sprites in this kinda setup:

http://imgur.com/a/D3HLI

and every single one of those wouldn't work on anything "non-standard" -- I don't even think they'd work on a Nexus 7, without some form of letterboxing. Android development using pixmap stuff is a huge PITA.

I'm not even entirely sure how gameboy and NES sprite maps equate to the concept that simply making a decent wrapper to perform widely used, easily documented screen processing that has existed in emulators for decades now and supports every resolution from my AXIM X3 to 2560x1440 and whatever in between pretty flawlessly.

Which is more what I'm getting at. There are a ton of scaling options that would allow them to use the original assets to no real detriment.

DaringDirk

chocobolicious wrote: »

KiTA wrote: »

chocobolicious wrote: »

Which, might I note, is at 1280x800 display with 216ppi.

Which is exactly one screen / aspect ratio / ppi combination out of the dozens or hundreds that they'd have to target. Heck, the official developers guide suggests aiming for 480x320 as your "official" resolution.

Here's some thought experiments using NES pixmap tiles and sprites in this kinda setup:

http://imgur.com/a/D3HLI

and every single one of those wouldn't work on anything "non-standard" -- I don't even think they'd work on a Nexus 7, without some form of letterboxing. Android development using pixmap stuff is a huge PITA.

I'm not even entirely sure how gameboy and NES sprite maps equate to the concept that simply making a decent wrapper to perform widely used, easily documented screen processing that has existed in emulators for decades now and supports every resolution from my AXIM X3 to 2560x1440 and whatever in between pretty flawlessly.

Which is more what I'm getting at. There are a ton of scaling options that would allow them to use the original assets to no real detriment.

I've seen how pretty (and sometimes funky) those can be, and I can imagine the right one doing wonders. They can't really do anything about the lack of widescreen though, can they? Other than giving you the option of black borders or a stretched look, I mean?

kime

Man, this last page seemed full of negativity. We should avoid that and talk about fun stuff!

Like that Japanese cover for X/X-2. So pretty

Renzo

kime wrote: »

Man, this last page seemed full of negativity. We should avoid that and talk about fun stuff!

Like that Japanese cover for X/X-2. So pretty

I know right? So good.

And now that we know that Japan is getting a Vita dual pack, maybe we'll get one? Maaaybe?

kime

I really really want that, yeah.

SyphonBlue

Renzo wrote: »

kime wrote: »

Man, this last page seemed full of negativity. We should avoid that and talk about fun stuff!

Like that Japanese cover for X/X-2. So pretty

I know right? So good.

And now that we know that Japan is getting a Vita dual pack, maybe we'll get one? Maaaybe?

At this point, it's probably enough to hope we even get the game.

Renzo

Seriously.

Drakenguard 3, three-quel in a niche hack-and-slash game series with fucked up themes of violence and sexuality and violent sexuality? Sure, we'll localize that.

FFX and X-2 for Vita? Eh...we'll see.

FF Type-0? NO.

Dehumanized

bss wrote: »

Enlong wrote: »

I think some of my opinion may have to do with reading the Lina Darkstar translation thread before the GBA version came out. That thread was really cool at explaining the differences between the scripts, and I was overjoyed to find that the GBA translation vindicated that thread's version of the script.

Anyway, there's nothing extremely glaring. Woolsey did great with the time he had. Nobody misspells "Ragnarok" as "Kangaroo" or anything, but it's sort of an overall tone. The GBA translaion brings out some subtleties and character arcs that were lost in translation or mishandled in the SNES version. Some lines didn't make a lot of sense in the SNES version, and one line ("The Empire's made me a rich man") was the opposite of what was intended. Woolsey also had to deal with Nintendo's censorship policies at the time, which the GBA version didn't have to worry about. The GBA version also cut back on unnecessary and multiple exclamation points. Seriously, it's a bit weird how often characters in the SNES version are shouting.

Just, in a general sense, the GBA version's script feels a lot more polished to me. The Woolsey script is by no means PSX FFV levels of bad. Heck, I grew up, and loved FFVI, on Woolsey's script. I just find the GBA version to be better, and more definitive. Certainly more polished.

Also, the GBA version made the Opera fit the music. Always a plus.

I would pay to see this guy's take on FFVI versions, because his analysis of the rifts (large and small) between FFIV translations is an amazing read: http://legendsoflocalization.com/final-fantasy-iv/ It mostly goes deep into SFC FFIV, SFC easy type FFIV, and SNES FFIV, but dips into the newer translations, which are generally better than SNES FFIV but have their own issues as well (mostly stemming from deviating too greatly from the original work without directly adding to translation). It also occasionally pokes enormous holes in the J2E fan translation.

I don't know enough (or really, anything) to say if Lina Darkstar or GBA FFVI have nearly the same degree of variance in translations, but that site has definitely made me skeptical of retranslations, and really translations in general.

Sure, localization is hard work -- and for anything but the simplest of works, pretty much impossible to create a translated script that is legible, clear, and exactly true to the original script. So, the translator aims for getting as clear as possible on budget, and interpreting the text where necessary. And even then, you might end up having to deal with something like this (from one of the translators on Trails in the Sky SC)

https://twitter.com/BlondRobin/status/388014505910747136

lionheart_m

You know what I hate about replaying FF4DS? Now I want to replay FF6...JRPGs and children just don't mix!

Alice Leywind

Oh...Final fantasy dimensions is 20 bucks...damn. It's not even the "Too expensive for a smartphone app" thing. I just cant afford that right now.

Damn. That's the one I wanted to actually PLAY.

bss

Dehumanized wrote: »

bss wrote: »

Enlong wrote: »

I think some of my opinion may have to do with reading the Lina Darkstar translation thread before the GBA version came out. That thread was really cool at explaining the differences between the scripts, and I was overjoyed to find that the GBA translation vindicated that thread's version of the script.

Anyway, there's nothing extremely glaring. Woolsey did great with the time he had. Nobody misspells "Ragnarok" as "Kangaroo" or anything, but it's sort of an overall tone. The GBA translaion brings out some subtleties and character arcs that were lost in translation or mishandled in the SNES version. Some lines didn't make a lot of sense in the SNES version, and one line ("The Empire's made me a rich man") was the opposite of what was intended. Woolsey also had to deal with Nintendo's censorship policies at the time, which the GBA version didn't have to worry about. The GBA version also cut back on unnecessary and multiple exclamation points. Seriously, it's a bit weird how often characters in the SNES version are shouting.

Just, in a general sense, the GBA version's script feels a lot more polished to me. The Woolsey script is by no means PSX FFV levels of bad. Heck, I grew up, and loved FFVI, on Woolsey's script. I just find the GBA version to be better, and more definitive. Certainly more polished.

Also, the GBA version made the Opera fit the music. Always a plus.

I would pay to see this guy's take on FFVI versions, because his analysis of the rifts (large and small) between FFIV translations is an amazing read: http://legendsoflocalization.com/final-fantasy-iv/ It mostly goes deep into SFC FFIV, SFC easy type FFIV, and SNES FFIV, but dips into the newer translations, which are generally better than SNES FFIV but have their own issues as well (mostly stemming from deviating too greatly from the original work without directly adding to translation). It also occasionally pokes enormous holes in the J2E fan translation.

I don't know enough (or really, anything) to say if Lina Darkstar or GBA FFVI have nearly the same degree of variance in translations, but that site has definitely made me skeptical of retranslations, and really translations in general.

Sure, localization is hard work -- and for anything but the simplest of works, pretty much impossible to create a translated script that is legible, clear, and exactly true to the original script. So, the translator aims for getting as clear as possible on budget, and interpreting the text where necessary. And even then, you might end up having to deal with something like this (from one of the translators on Trails in the Sky SC)

https://twitter.com/BlondRobin/status/388014505910747136

Don't get me wrong, that is the source of my inability to identify "good" translations. Adhering to the source work but also localizing idioms, word play, etc. while keeping things coherent is a zero-sum activity where I feel it is impossible to gauge quality beyond a certain point. I can barely decide on which approach I prefer, let alone commentate on which I think is better.

Vincent Grayson

I think if, at the end of the game you can say "That story/dialogue/etc was coherent and interesting." at the very least you can say it's not a *bad* localization. The trouble comes when it is bad, and you can't figure out if the Japanese (or other) writing was just terrible in the first place, or if the localization itself is the problem.

Alice Leywind

Oh....my phone is incompatible for Final fantasy 5...

Well. that's kinda sad. I mean, yeah...awful looking version, but it would still be nice to have.

Stormwatcher

I have a lot of great stories from my lead game translator times (from eng to brazilian portuguese). Pity I can't tell any of them because NDA.

But yeah, translation is serious business. Oh and I did get to meet Richard Honeywood, who's the master of all game translators.

italianranma

Umm...

Did we all just stop talking about Final Fantasy for a month? I see we're at the page cap, do you want me to make the next OP?

UnbreakableVow

@italianranma

http://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/183683/vanish-doom-has-come-to-the-final-fantasy-thread#latest