The new forums will be named Coin Return (based on the most recent vote)! You can check on the status and timeline of the transition to the new forums here.
The Guiding Principles and New Rules document is now in effect.
Grinding in life
hurblubdoo
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
So I recently watched this video and noticed he was talking about some forums which I assume to be these here. (If not, they seem to have a similar purpose anyway) I'm sorta looking for help handling my own addiction/compulsion in that I'm afraid it's starting to take away from my studies. Trick is, I don't see it as a problem with filling certain voids in my life as much as my strong dislike for grinding. Even in video games I don't like to have to spend hours leveling up which is why I spend the majority of my time on a Pokemon Simulator. It assumes that I have already grinded for everything and allows me to apply the benefits in a strategic way. (which I like A LOT) Sadly, I can't possibly make this assumption in real life and I'm currently in that time period where most of my work is grinding. (later years of High School) Ironically, I watch these EC videos to learn more (much like I should be doing with my homework) however, I feel I'm more willing to do so here because I only need to take away the general concepts rather than memorize specific details like with my homework. (although, I did procrastinate watching these videos for a long period of time because I found spending my time on simulators more appealing) Overall, I think I more or less identified the problem now I just need to figure out how to solve it. (which I've tried and failed) Can any of you help me?
0
Posts
The thing is, that statement is true no matter what part of life you're in. In HS you have to "grind" to go to a better college. In college, you have to "grind" to get the job you want. Once you're working, you have to "grind" to pay your bills and have money for the hobbies you enjoy.
I don't really have any specific advice for you except that it isn't enough to just identify the problem - you have to figure out why that is appealing to you and work on that. If it is an option (and if the forums are unable to help you), talking to a mental health professional can help you sort through these issues before it has a serious effect on your life and future.
My other piece of advice is to break your separate thoughts into difference paragraphs to make your posts more readable.
Not that you cannot get help here, but you're probably going to have to share more of what's going on, what you're thinking, and what are these problems that you've identified.
I suppose the problem I have with grinding is that it's not exploring anything new and is just repeating things I've already seen. I just don't like this, I want to spend that effort actually doing/learning something relevant to me. Memorizing details is tedious and boring.
I know the common response to this is to not sit around waiting for motivation to fall from the sky and to "just do it" but I find this easier said than done. Potential repercussions or long term benefits only tend to cause stress or are simply too far off to seem like tangible goals. I'd rather continue procrastinating and put up with the eventual drawbacks later on than put up with the present annoyance of rereading text.
Ha.
Here's the thing. There are smart people and people who have a good work ethic (willing to grind things out). Successful people are weighted more towards work ethic as opposed to "intelligence". While it's important to recognize when to "work smarter", a lot of life is sucking it up and getting it done. Note that by "Just doing it", you save all the time you would spend making excuses, doing minor procrastinations and stressing out about it. It is simply more efficient to your time to "just do it", especially at your stage, where grades will matter for entrance into college.
Also understand that right now through college is one of the times where you will have the most freedom to do anything. Take advantage of that, rather than pissing it away. You do not have bills, you do not have job searches, you do not have the weight of others depending on you to eat (including yourself). The only thing you have to do is school, which is your job. If you can't do that, how can you ever hope to do it with additional things piled on top?
You are looking for a shortcut, but very few exist. Life is not easy, but it can be immensely rewarding if you actually challenge yourself. Does memorization suck? Absolutely. Is it key to develop good memorization skills? Absolutely. Being able to pull concepts and remember details on a single read-through will give you a leg up on whatever you do.
*Ahem*
Quit feeling sorry for yourself, get off your ass, go get your fucking homework done.
(I've tried the no gaming environment and I end up just dozing off or daydreaming, I really hate focusing my attention on things that I don't like. Again, I know this is another "just do it" but certainly there is a way to "just do it" properly.)
Edit: Yes, I'm aware of what eventually happens to those you sit around on their ass. That's why I want to try to find an actual solution to this problem.
I am a strong believer that your desire and drive to do things in life is influenced very strongly by your upbringing, your family, and your social support structure
if the simple fact that not working hard and not doing things you don't want to do will eventually pay off with a happier and more successful life isn't enough to get you off your ass, then there's probably something to that, and it's something that's out of your control on a subconscious level
but in general, you are not entitled to make any value judgements on doing hard work and "grinding" until you've done it for at least 5 or 6 years straight, because that's how long it takes for that kind of stuff to start really paying off.
sounds like you've been at it for.. not that long
we also talk about other random shit and clown upon each other
My personal trick? I just sit down and say "time to work" then do it until it's done. There's no magic bullet, just ways you can deceive yourself.
Some people will tell you you can go to school later, or it's never to late to fix x, y, or z. That's not really true. I completely have my act together, but there is absolutely nothing I can do about the fact that everyone else my age has 8 years on me in real experience because I was busy video gaming. You can still fix the problems, but nothing can make them never have happened. From the age of 16-22 you really are going to largely determine the course for your entire life whether you realize it or not. While it's possible to do course correction later, its incredibly hard and expensive.
No one here is going to motivate you, and honestly no one gives a shit about your motivation. You need to figure it out, because no one else cares, at all. When you're on your own, no one is waking you up for work, or cares why you were late. They'll just tell you fi it happens again its over.
There is nothing fulfilling in anyway of having a constant stream of entertainment. Finding something important, getting really good at it, and being recognized for it by your peers is an incredible feeling. When the opposite is true it feels equally as bad. I work hard because it gives me a feeling of worth, excellence, and a nice sum of money to entertain myself with. I honestly don't need more motivation than that.
I'm not rejecting their responses, nor am I doubting the repercussions I will eventually face, nor am I expecting somebody to micromanage me and give me my motivation. My problem is that in spite of being aware of all these things, they don't seem to really convince me. I know that I'm wrong and these are real dangers but they are so far off that they don't seem tangible.
On the contrary, you can be good at entertainment and that sense of accomplishment is far more initially rewarding than a 5-6 year investment.
Again, the self-deception bit may be what I'm doing wrong. Perhaps I need to find a more personal approach and create some sort of reward system for myself. Or maybe just force a completely different mindset, I'm not really sure.
Life's a little like that. Most high-paying jobs are easier than low-paying ones.
It's easier to code for Google, with their great salaries, health insurance, free food, and comfy chairs than it is to work at Walmart, hauling heavy boxes or standing all day for a pittance (and then doing your other job to make ends meet.)
So do the easy grind at the beginning so you don't have to face the end boss with a +1 sword.
It's not even learning or school work I'm opposed to. I'm genuinely interested the first time I learn the material in class. It's afterwards when I have to review what I've already learned to memorize specific details or repeat it in assignments that I strongly dislike.
You should still be able to carve out personal time to do the things you like, but in high school you really have the most amount of free time, less so in college, less so once you're in the workplace. So maybe some of the stronger advice is just telling you "you will have even less time later, so snap out of it and gather ye rosebuds". And the time you got to bust your balls to get a good job is just getting longer. They didn't really have year+ unpaid internships as mandatory before you get to work for money 20 years ago, not unless you wanted to do that.
Much of the motivation those of us who've gone through this can offer is basically a threat. If you do not do well, your options close off to you. Avenues where you can better your future will be harder to access. Professional development is performance-based, school and college are prepping you for that.
In my opinion, the happiest people don't really fall into that reward system. The best musicians I know are those who enjoy the act of playing and practicing, not the rewards at the end. For them, are they satisfied that they are "good?" Yes, of course, but the vast vast majority will quickly say "and that's why I keep practicing, and I love practicing." It's the initial act that's satisfying, not the reward at the end.
The happiest farmers are not the ones that feel incredibly pumped that a harvest came in. The happiest ones are the ones who love the planting, the husbandry, the land, and the work. I feel that this is true for most people.
I am very happy in my job now. I was also happy in my previous jobs, to varying degrees. I very much enjoyed college AFTER I found a major that really spoke to me. College went from a chore in something I didn't care about to something that I felt really helped me develop as a person. My last 3 years were GREAT! It had nothing to do with the social element and everything to do with the field of study. However, it also had to do with my maturity level. I knew there were things I simply didn't like doing, but I started to look at the process involved and seeing how I could enjoy it, even if I found it boring.
Life isn't about rewards, really. No one gets a medal for being employed for 40 years, or retiring. There's no wall of fame for getting married, or for having a kid. I mean, why should you do anything? If you have a choice between three things -- Easy, Medium, and Hard -- and you can accomplish the Hard thing, what's stopping you from trying? The act of working towards the Hard thing should be satisfaction enough. The grade is just a reflection of the work, not the work itself. The satisfaction is not from the end result, but from the effort.
Top-level athletes strive to go to Super Bowls, Olympics, World Cups, etc., not primarily for the gold medals and trophies. Is that a part of it? Of course, otherwise there'd be no reason for them to play competitively. But the reason they do it every day and make it their life is because they love the act. Getting a gold medal in the Olympics is the reward -- but it's just a recognition that for the last 4 years, you have been working your ass off every day to accomplish something you love. There's a reason that even losers (aka "everyone who's not first place") still says they played their best and are happy with themselves. They're not giving everything up just because they didn't get a reward. They're sticking with it because they love the process and the act.
No one does math because they get an A at it. You only get a grade for as long as you're in school, and it's simply a way of showing yourself that yes, the work you're doing is accurate and correct. It's validation that you're on the right path, but not a reward. If you get a D in math, it's not a shitty reward -- it's a reflection that you're doing it wrong. Parents often motivate their children by giving them some type of reward for good grades, but this is just a basic trick because kids DON'T understand that sitting and doing math, or reading a book, or figuring out chemistry is about developing themselves as a person and that it should be rewarding on its own.
I'm not friends with anyone who lives a life entirely focused on rewards and end-goal satisfaction. It's life -- the end is when you're dead and you're not enjoying much then. In my experience, the people who are so focused on their goals and rewards are the ones who are generally unhappy in their personal life. They sacrifice their current happiness for some supposed future reward. Is it good to be motivated? Of course! But the reward should be in the act, not in some future judgment. I think mindset is absolutely where you're looking at this the wrong way. It sounds like you're trying to figure out "what's in it for me?" My existential, fluffy answer is that "you are in it for you." There's no one else living your life.
I suppose what I should be doing is treating this work now as part of the work I want to do later on. Afterall, the ideas I'll learn (which I've been happy enough to pick up) and the work ethic (what I've been struggling with) are skills that are part of what I want to do. In fact, they are what I want to do.
Thank you very much for your response (and everybody else as well) I think this really helped me to resolve the issue. Now all is left is for me to apply this right now and get the "grinding" done.
This. This right here. As trite as it might sound, you can (with practice) change what you like and dislike. It's not totally out of your control. You might think, "Oh man, schoolwork sucks, how could I ever grind away at something I don't like for six more years or whatever?" Well, you can't. But if you can manage to shift what you value, it won't be six more years of grinding things you hate. You'll start to like it, or at least feel rewarded by it.
Just do one thing and when you're done doing it, stop and consciously think "Hey, look at that. I did a thing. And it was good." Repeat forever.
You lack a pursuit. I was very lucky to have art as a clear, defined road map. It pushed me to working hard on something that was tangential to high school studies and was my goal.. When it comes to things I don't care about I cant spend the time, I can barely watch a TV show thats longer than 5 episodes for the apathy that washes over me after a time. I need to find a reason to care, and usually I can relate that back to my pursuit.
Eggy hit the nail on the head when I was writing this, so I wont get so deep into it. Pick up some books and drive yourself forward.
I have always had a tremendous amount of trouble getting work done since kindergarten, and the knowledge that it would all be worth it later wasn't enough. Wanting to do it wasn't enough. Needing to do it wasn't enough. Caring deeply about the subject matter wasn't enough, because it was important, and because it was graded. It's been worse or better depending on my mental landscape over the years, and it wasn't until about 8 years ago that I realized that the root of it is crippling anxiety I still haven't worked out how to deal with. So that's an angle to look at if you're really having trouble.
As has been mentioned, no one here can or cares to motivate you, and yeah, everything can start to feel pretty samey after a while, but no one has said that every day is new, and it's really up to you to make it different. You may have to get the same kind of work done, but you don't have to do it anywhere specific. You can pick a new location every day to study. Your homework should look different every day; you don't do the same assignment with the same questions every day like you might with a daily quest, or fighting the same battle over and over for xp. You can make it new.
But the fact is, if there isn't a real problem with you and you don't get it now, you probably won't until the time comes when you wish you had sooner. At a certain point it's just a function of being young.
English - For some students, this is about reading and interpreting literature. For you, it can be about how to communicate both the rules and spirit of your game. Seriously, go read some Magic cards from their Alpha/Beta sets, then some cards from their newest sets. The level of communication in their writing is leagues apart. If you are going to be doing video game design, think of all the code you will have to read, then go back over and edit.
History - Not only will you win all trivia games ever if you pay attention, history also teaches us about cause and effect. A good game design will have clear causes and effects for the actions and plays made within the game. History will also give you some really cool starting points for the lore of any game you may want to make.
Science - The Scientific Method. This also overlaps a little with cause and effect, but the best games will teach players how to play the game by playing the game - through experimentation. Check out the Sequilitis: Mega Man X video on youtube some time. Also, balancing equations in Chemistry will help you figure out how to best balance your games. You'll need to keep track of a lot of small little moving pieces, and if one thing changes somewhere, you'll need to be able to track that change down the road. In League of Legends, when the developers change abilities by tenths or hundredths of a percent, it can make a character go from broken to never used.
Math - This is what separates the good designers from the great. Not only do you need to know the math behind your game (whether it's percentages for probability, risk/reward payoffs, or just some damage calculation), but also the process of going step by step through a problem, following all of the little rules, theorems, proofs, and other tricks of the trade will help you with all the nitty gritty behind the scenes design choices. Also, if something goes wrong in the game, you're going to need to go through the rules or the code step by little step, and there's no better practice for this than trigonometry proofs.
Okay, so maybe there's better practice than trig proofs, but you get the idea. Each and every class you are taking is, at worst, indirectly applicable to the job you want. Not only will good grades get you into a good school which will get you into a good games design program, you know, eventually, but these skills you are learning (and more importantly - practicing) will make you a better game designer each and every day of your job. The good news here is that you do recognize that the attitude you currently have will not yield good results, and you're trying to fix it. I'd say that puts you ahead of like, 60-70% of teenagers. Probably 50-60% of adults, too.
Through all of this I am trying to cultivate a relationship with a lady friend and work on some financial things for my future.
Life is a grind. That's just the fact of the matter. If you think it gets easier or better, you're in for a shock. The amount of time you have to "just exist" shrinks exponentially as you get older.
That said, most people in high school at various times feel like you feel right now. You're just starting to enter that bridge to adulthood, where you're starting to realize you aren't going to be a kid forever (or much longer for that matter). The worst, absolute worst, thing you can do at this point is give up though. If you think it's bad now, imagine would it would be like if you had to work a crappy job just to make ends meat, with no money to go do fun things. The reason you need "grind" now is so that you can get a job in a field you actually care about later.
Does that mean you're going to love every second of your future job? No, absolutely not. There are plenty of responsibilities I have at work which are not "fun"...but overall, I enjoy the hell out of what I do. It's not soul crushing, it's fulfilling, and I had to put in a lot of work to get here. The "pay off", the end result, is that I get to make good money at a job I don't hate, facilitating me enjoying the things I find entertaining in life.
As a side note, I do what you want to do, software engineering, and trust me, it's still a grind. It's a "fun" job, but it's still a job. I am still working on code someone else tells me to write, sometimes dealing with subject matter I couldn't care less about. I still have to write documentation and tests. I still have to do proper management of code. I still have to peer review. I also get to work in a field where I am constantly challenged and fulfilled. I get to create new and exciting solutions to tough problems on a daily basis. Someone earlier mentioned that the journey should be the goal, not the end, and this is true of any true passion. I enjoy the grind of programming, I enjoy putting in the work to learn new tools, algorithms and techniques. I may not always enjoy every second of it in the moment, but overall the process is incredibly fulfilling. This is what you should strive for.
It seems like maybe your perspective might need some re-adjustment? I don't really think of school or life as grinding, because I feel like my daily life (even in school) isn't monotonous. Maybe there are certain periods of walking around in tall grass, but I don't believe that majority of time feels like that. I see it more as an adventure/puzzle game. There's a lot of exploration, unlocking new levels and finding new items that will be useful later on.
If you think that life and school is a boring grind then it kind of will be, and you'll miss all the really exciting stuff thats happening while you're stuck in the grass. This game/life analogy is a little contrived but I think a lot of it is finding joy in learning new things and perfecting those things you've learned. I'm like you, things that don't interest me are literally the BANE of my existence. Math? Science? Those were just a waste of my time when I could be doing art or learning history! It wasn't until college that I changed my perspective and embraced even the things I was terrible at and hated. Then math felt like less of a insane chore and became something that was actually kind of fun to do (despite my still being pathetic at it). It became a lot more like puzzle solving, adventuring, discovering new areas and exploring. There was no real "reward" but that didn't really matter because there's always something new to do.
I'm just saying I don't think life has to be a grind but that's not because of some secret its just how you think about the things you're doing. Now to be fair, I don't work a 9 - 5 so maybe GnomeTank has the better pulse on working life. It seems like a lot of responses have gotten you thinking though which is good!
Um. I'm confused about the question.
So, you play Pokemon instead of doing your homework, and...? Are you looking for a method to keep yourself from being distracted by video games, or are you looking for some way to make your homework seem more attractive?
If the former, have you been tested for ADD, out of curiosity? Not being able to focus on tasks can be a symptom of ADD, and if you have that disorder or similar one, nothing will help until you get medication. If you don't have a medical disorder, I'm afraid there's not much for it: some things you have to sort out for yourself, and the way you partition your time & the person you choose to be are among them.
If the latter, school homework is basically the school's way of providing practice for rote work you'll be doing later in life. So, no, unfortunately - there's not much you can do to try and make it 'fun' unless the subject matter is already entertaining for you (I used to be so jealous of peers that found math equations to be fun to solve).
General schooling also isn't for everyone, and it's sort of a shame that we treat it that way. What are you really passionate about? Some of my friends switched to trade schooling & fine arts schooling, and it was the best thing that every happened to them. But that's only a solution if you think what you want to do with your life (aside from playing Pokemon) isn't being addressed by regular schooling, not if you think any sort of homework is just cutting into your video game time or you think schooling yourself to become a tradesman or professional artist would be 'easier' than general schooling (it can actually be much harder!)
There is one secret to motivation: invent your own secret. Tie a string to your finger, come up with a mantra, do a specific exercise or eat a piece of candy after. Whatever trick works to get you in that headspace. Consider it the mental version of stretching before running or doing a specific practice doodle before painting. Eventually you can just drop it and pick up and go, but it can often help to have some sort of standardization for switching from idle time to focus time.
And find the beauty in what you are doing, even if it is riding on a bus or memorizing arithmetic. You get to choose how you react to the world, why not let that be wonder? There are amazing things going on in the most mundane, and they aren't even hiding. They are right there in front of your eyes.
Everyone else has given good general advice so I would just like to point out that what you did here was identify your larger goal and then break it down into smaller more manageable goals. This not only more efficiently identify what needs to be done but allows you "rewards" in the smaller achievements along the way. This can be applied in almost anything in your life and is an incredibly good skill to have.
I don't know if you've finished a video game before, but if you have problems with work ethic I am guessing you haven't. If you haven't made games before you'll want to start simple, like a retro arcade game or something close to a NES or mobile title. You'll also want to take every shortcut you can: use a game-making program (some people like Game Maker for quick prototyping, I'm a fan of Construct 2), steal sprites and music from OGA or Spriter's Resource, find a way to cut your 10-hour story into a 10-minute story, whatever. The thing to focus on isn't making your game amazing or epic (it won't be professional-level if you're just starting out), but on making it complete. No buttons that don't work, no paths that lead nowhere, no obvious standout bugs that grind the game to a halt. When you're finished it should be a game you feel comfortable handing to someone else on a flash drive and saying "This is finished, play it" without you looking over their shoulder and justifying to them why things don't work.
If you've never made a game before, you're going to find that A.) it's a lot harder than you think, and B.) A lot of it feels boring and tedious the same way your school work does. You're going to get frustrated at times, and you'll want to go back to just playing games. You might also try to make excuses to get yourself to stop when the going gets tough ("This game is hard to make, but maybe if I start over completely...") Don't listen. Make your game anyway, finish it whatever you have to do. If you want to be a game designer some day, you have to make games, even when it's hard. Everyone has a different process and you have to find yours, maybe you have to set deadlines for yourself, maybe you have to work 5 evenings a week and play games on the weekends, maybe you reward yourself with a League of Legends match after you finish a level of your game, whatever. What matters is that you're progressing and getting something cool finished regularly.
This is important not just because the process of actually making real games is going to be much more directly applicable to what you want to do than anything your school is teaching you, but because it will give you a chance to build up work ethic in an environment where you actually have reason to care about the results. Learning work ethic is never easy, but if you're going to do it the best possible place to do it is making something you care, because at least you're naturally motivated to finish the projects you're passionate about. When you making yourself spend 8 hours forcing yourself to edit pixel art or find collision bugs in whatever your personal version of development hell might be, you're learning to make yourself work for a reward, and that skill is just as applicable whether the reward is a completed game or a piece of math homework. You need to learn it somehow, you may as well learn it doing what you've decided you love.
If you've already made some games, make more. Make better games. Making a good game is incredibly difficult, and there is no better way to gain a work ethic that I know of. This will help with your schoolwork. It will help with your life. If you want to be a game designer, make games.
10,000 Hours. That's about how long it takes to truly master something in life. Getting good at stuff takes time.
In terms of background - I never did homework, I only played sports because my parents promised to buy me N64 games, and the only grinding I did was to get a Golden Chocobo. (Final Fantasy VII). Only in hindsight (now at 27 with a decent $70K annual salary) did I realize that you have to work for almost anything you want.
Good examples:
Being good at sports/competitive things (practicing!)
Being healthy/fit (regularly working out/eating healthy)
Having an education that will result in a job/decent pay (going to school, doing homework, writing long papers)
The list goes on. I only ask that you take the advice on the people on this forum, because I suspect that people have go on the path that you are about to go on, and many (myself included) look at the past with some regret.
Good luck!
WiiU: jooncole (Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate)
3DS: 2122-5983-8919
Unfortunately this is not the case, unless you are Peter Molyneux.
Game designers have as much grind as anyone. I know a game designer in the AAA games industry, and his job is, well, a job. I asked him what he does all day and he described making a lot of spreadsheets balancing various game factors. As far as I know, he has always worked on products where someone else came up with the concept, and he fills in the details. That's grind as much as anything in life. A nice job, but I think you'd get pretty bored.
I see a common complaint from some workers that they don't get to do more interesting work right off the bat in a job. In corporate america and many other places, you have to do the boring easy stuff well before they trust you with the fun hard stuff. For example, you wouldn't trust someone with a backhoe who constantly crashed a forklift. However, if you do the boring easy stuff quickly, efficiently and without complaint, you'll quickly find yourself put in positions where you can flex more creative muscles.