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Hello!

P!erre!P!erre! Registered User regular
edited July 2013 in Artist's Corner
I read someone mentioning that they had some stuff to show from deviant art - which, I too. I was wondering if posting the art directly onto this site was authorized. In the meantime when/if someone can answer my question - here is the link:

...which is page one. The work is done with pastel paints and black color done with marker.

Thanks for reading,

P!erre!

Iruka on

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    IrukaIruka Registered User, Moderator Mod Emeritus
    We have a handy rules thread that should help guide you through what to do. We need to see the actual art in the thread (you can post an image by putting a url that ends in .JPG in two [img][/img] tags.

    You also need to be here specifically for critiques, so hopefully you are looking for feedback.

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    P!erre!P!erre! Registered User regular
    Thanks for the prompt reply. It's a sci-fi story - features a celebrity too (and me) - see if you can identify her...here I go with page 1...
    michelle_forbes_page_1_by_unami4444-d66mpro.jpg

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    McDMcD Registered User regular
    edited June 2013
    Hey, you've got quite a unique style going on! The pastels give it quite an ethereal atmosphere, that first panel in particular looks cool! As far as the drawing goes, your style's really idiosyncratic, but on the basis of this page I'd say it would be worth your time to do some studies, focussing on form and stuff. At the moment the close-ups work well, but in the medium shots it looks as though the face is on a flat plane as opposed to "wrapping" around the skull, if you know what I mean?

    The other major thing is the lettering... The font is an obvious one that sticks out as not being too appealing to say the least, but you can easily find something new here, here or even here (if you're feeling particularly flush... Their fonts tend to be pretty expensive...). Although, looking at your style, I think hand-lettering would really work well, so maybe give that a shot? I'd also hand-draw the panel borders and not leave any white space between them and the art, buy that's just me. Give it a bash and see how it looks with the art flush against the borders. I quite like the decision to separate the narration from the images, it helps to give it a David Lynch/dream-like feeling (hope that's what you were going for), however it's quite difficult to tell who's speaking, especially since this is the first page and we have no idea who these characters are or what's going on. An easy solution to this would be to have coloured backgrounds corresponding to each character in the narration boxes. This could disrupt your colour scheme, so you could maybe try different fonts for each character if that doesn't work. Finally, I'd also consider getting rid of that number at the bottom or making it stick out less... At the moment it's kind of distracting.

    That's about all I can think of right now, man!

    McD on
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    P!erre!P!erre! Registered User regular
    Thank you ENORMOUSLY for the feedback. I'm going to take a lot of this down.
    Some of the problem I've had is that I'm working with Photodraw, then I convert to jpeg. It's a long procedure - and I've got to mention that this is painted with pastels - very time consuming then, scanned and put to page. I am working on page 8 right now (painting).
    If the story and what the character are saying isn't too obvious - I'm HAPPY about it. The reason is that as you go along - if you read all pages (which will eventually be done) - everything has a purpose. It is more about characterization and why the sci-fi background - because it forces my character (myself) to be in conditions that he doesn't fully understand.
    About more "work" - I'm not truly an artist. I've drawn most of my life but, never studied or took courses. I lack depth - as you'll see in the next 2 pages or so. But sometimes, some things come out great too!
    The font is Jokerman - which is not a big deal right now. I'm doing this for fun...fix it when it's truly finished and send it to...well...there's a celebrity in there but, I'll let people guess if they don't know already...

    Thank you very much again for the constructive critique. I appreciate!

    Hopefully a friend,

    P!erre!

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    P!erre!P!erre! Registered User regular
    Hello again,

    Here is page 2. I'm trying to catch up with deviant art - lol! Page 2 is nice, page 3 is nice but they are totally not "great". They have nice paintings but some things fall "flat". I've had to edit xxxxxxx times for the disposition of frames. HOWEVER, for my defense I will say that pastel paint has vibrant lifelike colors and that, as you read on, you'll love the story - because it's really about 2 people, the story moves on and everything comes together.

    michelle_forbes_page_2_by_unami4444-d67iggk.jpg

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    MagicToasterMagicToaster JapanRegistered User regular
    Seeing as you did not incorporate any of the suggestions, I'm lead to believe that you have already drawn these comics and are just showcasing them. What do you want to accomplish with this thread?

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    P!erre!P!erre! Registered User regular
    Hi,

    Like I mentioned in my previous post, I am taking notes on how to make this better. With critique, I hope to embellish the art - this is what I hope to accomplish.
    I have almost 8 pages done. Yes, I am showcasing the work done so far.
    I believe that the story will always surpass any art (as it should always be the case = vision (ideas) must surpass view (art).
    I hope I don't come off as a troll or something. It's not the case.

    Thanks again, any comments are read MICROSCOPICALLY.

    P!erre!

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    MagicToasterMagicToaster JapanRegistered User regular
    P!erre! wrote: »
    Yes, I am showcasing the work done so far.

    So, you just want readers?

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    P!erre!P!erre! Registered User regular
    Readers yes. LOTS of comments, definitely yes!

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    IrukaIruka Registered User, Moderator Mod Emeritus
    Is English your first language? (Not meaning to cause offense if it is, just trying to get a sense of the situation)

    We don't really do "showcasing" here, the end goal of the forum is critique and its explicitly against the rules to seek views/readers as your main focus on the forums. So, If you want to post all 8 pages in one post and get some insightful feedback on those pages, you are welcome to. If you seek readers, you are most definitely in the wrong place.

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    MagicToasterMagicToaster JapanRegistered User regular
    edited July 2013
    I'm glad that you're venturing into the art world, but if at this stage in your development you are willing to settle for a good story with bad art I see very little improvement in your future. I don't think any of the forumers are interested in reading the story, this is a highly technical art forum and we will look at your art above all.

    If you just update this thread with pages and page of the same thing with no intention of breaking your fundamental art gaps, people will not take you seriously as an artist. Artists grow, hacks hide behind excuses like "the story will make up for the illustrations".

    I'm sorry if this sounds harsh, but this is not Deviant Art -there are no ass pats here.

    As for your "I am not an artist" comment. Stop that. It is an excuse to execute poorly. I am not a professional linguist, but I eat, breath and live foreign languages every day. When I don't know how to conjugate something I don't say "Oh, well, I just do this for fun, I'm not a linguist". I try my hardest to bridge my gaps and move on to the next level. Stop making excuses.

    MagicToaster on
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    McDMcD Registered User regular
    I think what MT and I are a bit confused about is whether you actually plan to adjust these pages according to any feedback, or if you're going to be incorporating the critique in your upcoming work, or if you would just like people to view and comment on your work for the sake of it... Two of those things will help you to develop and one of them won't. You're clearly very passionate about this story, which is a good thing, but you need to temper that by being open to feedback. Your stuff is interesting but (I hope you don't take this the wrong way) there are a lot of areas that you REALLY need to work on. You're saying the story takes priority, but if you really want readers and people to pay attention to your work, then it would help to bring a higher level of polish to the art than there is at the moment. I'm by no means the best artist, but I'm more than happy to give you my thoughts on any pages you post. However, if you're not planning on changing them or taking the feedback on board, then there isn't really much point in me or anyone else doing that...

    If you're wincing at the thought of changing the 8 pages you've already done, then you're better off just posting them all as they are. That would give us an idea of where your skills are at and then you can use whatever feedback you get to hopefully make the next pages better. That way there's a bit more of a back and forth.

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    P!erre!P!erre! Registered User regular
    Hello all,

    Ok lots of posts above - GREAT!
    I will try to address the points in order they were posted.

    Is English your first language? (Not meaning to cause offense if it is, just trying to get a sense of the situation)
    French is but, I live in Canada and went to english school all my life and have worked in english most of the time.

    We don't really do "showcasing" here, the end goal of the forum is critique and its explicitly against the rules to seek views/readers as your main focus on the forums. So, If you want to post all 8 pages in one post and get some insightful feedback on those pages, you are welcome to. If you seek readers, you are most definitely in the wrong place.
    I wish to showcase SO that I can have feedback - in the process I hope people enjoy too. I will get back on the art part as someone else mentions it and I would like to give the right answer.

    I'm glad that you're venturing into the art world, but if at this stage in your development you are willing to settle for a good story with bad art I see very little improvement in your future. I don't think any of the forumers are interested in reading the story, this is a highly technical art forum and we will look at your art above all.
    I would settle for bad art with a great story. But that's just me. I do recognize that a number of panels are "flat". Again, I will comment on this further down. I am 0 in technical because I have never taken any courses and painting has been on/off for me. I have always been better at portraits but in the case here - this is "sweat-shop" portrait, as I have to continuously repeat the same visages over and over.

    If you just update this thread with pages and page of the same thing with no intention of breaking your fundamental art gaps, people will not take you seriously as an artist. Artists grow, hacks hide behind excuses like "the story will make up for the illustrations".
    This is a learning process for me. BUT I assure you that you will not be "fed" the same thing over and over. There will be a change in page 4, another one in 5 and a huge one in page 6. Page 7 will slightly start to fill in some blanks. Then page 8 brings the situation to "normal" and then I develop.

    I'm sorry if this sounds harsh, but this is not Deviant Art -there are no ass pats here.
    As I've mentioned before, I am taking notes down - there have already been many updates and there'll be more. Again, as I mentioned if someone sees this, likes it, GOOD! If not, and I get my ass kicked - it'll give me direction.

    As for your "I am not an artist" comment. Stop that. It is an excuse to execute poorly. I am not a professional linguist, but I eat, breath and live foreign languages every day. When I don't know how to conjugate something I don't say "Oh, well, I just do this for fun, I'm not a linguist". I try my hardest to bridge my gaps and move on to the next level. Stop making excuses.
    Again, I will profess that I am not an artist - I have zero training in arts. Can we agree that's it's not an excuse but more of an explanation?

    I think what MT and I are a bit confused about is whether you actually plan to adjust these pages according to any feedback, or if you're going to be incorporating the critique in your upcoming work, or if you would just like people to view and comment on your work for the sake of it...
    Ok, here is how it is. I can't do both at the same time and have it progress because of the time it takes. So, I'm planning to have 10-12 pages and then adjust. Having people give their critique just for the sake of it would be pointless for me. BUT of course, I want people to see what I do but, I'm here to read your comments (have already started a list) and adjust and really streeeeetch myself.

    Two of those things will help you to develop and one of them won't. You're clearly very passionate about this story, which is a good thing, but you need to temper that by being open to feedback.
    If I've said anything that led you to believe I was not open to feedback, I apologize.

    Your stuff is interesting but (I hope you don't take this the wrong way) there are a lot of areas that you REALLY need to work on.
    Totally agree.

    You're saying the story takes priority, but if you really want readers and people to pay attention to your work, then it would help to bring a higher level of polish to the art than there is at the moment. I'm by no means the best artist, but I'm more than happy to give you my thoughts on any pages you post. However, if you're not planning on changing them or taking the feedback on board, then there isn't really much point in me or anyone else doing that...
    I agree too that great art will certainly make a story "seem" better. But, there needs to be "heart" in something you write, originality - dialogue that's not coming from a factory comic book.
    I am planning to change MANY things - but not right now. Once I catch up on the posting, have taken notes - I will change what I feel is correct, will be in need of more opinions too on some specifics.

    If you're wincing at the thought of changing the 8 pages you've already done, then you're better off just posting them all as they are. That would give us an idea of where your skills are at and then you can use whatever feedback you get to hopefully make the next pages better. That way there's a bit more of a back and forth.
    Some of the elements were painted separately (as I suspect you know) - some of the things will have to go, some will need some adjustments, some will remain. I already have a lot of info/feedback from you guys - but I expect you to be "working" and giving me even more.

    Thank you all and please keep it coming,

    P!erre!


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    McDMcD Registered User regular
    edited July 2013
    Ok, I think it was a case of miscommunication, but at the risk of repeating myself, I would still say the best thing to do would be to post all the work you've done so far that you would like feedback on. The more work people see, the better idea they get of where you're at and what needs the most focus. I think the thing that's confusing is that you say you don't want to make changes right now, but are posting the pages in dribs and drabs. It would be better to just show them all, see what feedback you get... Otherwise you're just going to be posting pages that have the same problems over and over again.

    McD on
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    P!erre!P!erre! Registered User regular
    Hi,

    Well, the way it is, I plan to post a page everyday - so - you should be on top of it within a week. By that time, I'll probably have comments over comments. In a way, my style doesn't change because well, McCartney has the same voice, Elton opens with piano and so on... There is a learning peak but, like I said - style is style.
    Something came back to me. About story being more important than art - I just can't get out of my mind "Maus" - I don't know if you've read this. The art is like second generation, very linear and yet - this is one of the top ten books ever. This is a case of substance over style. I will admit that it might be an exception but, it's what I meant about story over art.
    I'm repeating myself too - page 3 forwards the story but, it is more of the same art (like you mentioned "same problems"). Page 4 starts to have interesting elements. Then 5 & 6 will be something "far out".

    Again...repeating myself... I am REALLY making a list of the comments you are giving me. Keep them coming, please!

    P!erre!

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    m3nacem3nace Registered User regular
    edited July 2013
    BULLSHIT
    The great thing about Maus is that both the art and writing are at the same level. Maus isn't so much about great writing or great art as it is about making a great comic with the components that are ultimately unique to the medium.
    Also, post all your pages, this isn't an alternative to a webcomic site, you don't get to draw a crowd and entertain us and give us cliffhangers. If you want crits, post your stuff, this is ridiculous.

    m3nace on
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    P!erre!P!erre! Registered User regular
    That's very aggressive. I can deal with critique but not aggressiveness. I think I've been open and my opinion is not "bullshit" - it's my opinion. I don't know why I'm getting some sort of "tag" that I can't handle the critique? Something I said? I reread myself and found nothing.
    Maus is VERY linear. Tintin is another character very linear that has had success for many many decades. The first Superman comics were also very linear. What happened? People loved the ideas/concepts. You cannot say that Action Comics 1 is a masterpiece in terms of art yet, it sold a phenomenal number of copies (I believe it went for a second printing at the time - not 100% sure).
    There's not much of a cliffhanger here - I'm posting a page a day and there are seven to date (working on 8). Same styles but different storytelling techniques to come up. I don't want to "bunch" everything up together. I would like critique - someone way up told me that the way the pages were numbered was "distracting" or the likes. My pagination has bothered me for some time now - I have yet to resolve this. It's the number one thing on my list. I invite other posters to come up with ideas. Trees are to be changed - but I can't do it now - it would take a month or so and my head is bursting with concepts and I'm writing as fast as I can - I know the ending and many chapters who are to come.
    Please, write in this thread what you feel needs to be switched, changed, ect...I'm not faking this - you comments are appreciated. Your positive critique is welcomed, I encourage it and I thank you for it.

    P!erre!

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    EncEnc A Fool with Compassion Pronouns: He, Him, HisRegistered User regular
    /unlurk

    P!erre!, you are currently averaging 2 images to probably 4000 words. Take a look at the other artist critique threads in this forum, most don't make a first page until they have 4-10 images to start with, and typically have one or new new pieces they are working on per post.

    If you want your art critiqued, post some art. Two pictures isn't enough to give you meaningful advice, as everyone on here has repeated. I'd suggest waiting until you have some more for folks to work with before replying, even if it isn't comic material. Doodles, practice warm ups, formal exercises... all can help the pros here help you. But if all you post are walls of text, that's not going to help you learn.

    Check out the tutorials thread, the first page has a bunch of free instruction tutorials and the entire thread has a bunch of neat stuff to help artists of every level.

    /lurk

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    P!erre!P!erre! Registered User regular
    Hi,

    It's more like 20 or so pieces because every image is made separately, scanned, ect... Do you mean 4000 words per reply or do you mean in my panels? Simply put - do you think there is too much text? I hadn't thought of that, if that's what you meant. Do you have a link to a specific tutorial that you think would fit the work I do?

    Thanks,

    P!erre!

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    tynictynic PICNIC BADASS Registered User, ClubPA regular
    I don't know what you mean by 'linear'.

    People are complaining because if we give you advice then we don't want to see 'new' art in the thread until you're following that advice. Ie until the art is genuinely new. There's no need to post the whole comic in here unless you want crits on the whole comic, and in that case it saves everyone a lot of time and effort to post it all at once.

    I don't know if it's the language barrier but I'm getting a feeling there's a lot of miscommunication going on.

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    IrukaIruka Registered User, Moderator Mod Emeritus
    edited July 2013
    If the pages are done, there's no need to post one a day. The reason for this is that you are essentially pushing down the threads of other artists waiting for feedback, by needlessly bumping your thread with pages that you could have posted in one go. If you cant abide by that, I'll lock the thread.

    Iruka on
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    P!erre!P!erre! Registered User regular
    edited July 2013
    Actually, I will be taking my leave and I will ask you to remove the thread and close my account, thank you.
    I have taken down a lot of notes and am thanking the people who did this with no other thoughts than being kind to me.
    It seems that this thread is creating too much conflicts.
    If also you could direct me to a forum a little more "out of the box" I would really appreciate.
    I wish you all well!

    P!erre!

    Grifter on
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