That's the thing though. PGI had the potential to not squander their good will.
I mean, Jesus, those of us that played MW:O gave them *every* benefit of doubt through the first half of 2013 thinking they were working hard on the game... they weren't. they really weren't doing anything except mech models and skins. It should read like satire that a company can bungle every bit of PR and goodwill. It shouldn't be possible to have such a low standing among your customers, but here we are, Fall 2014 and they want to try their hands at another game.
I've said this for a year and a half now. The only reason MW:O is any sort of 'success' or maintaining it's longevity right now, is solely due to the IP that is "Battletech" and "Mechwarrior".
My god. Seriously.
I'm half tempted hire programming and art enthusiasts from right here in the Penny Arcade Forums and then provide a sales pitch to Microsoft and a Design Manifesto for my own MechWarrior Game consisting of the following two sentences. I could probably get a Kickstarter with the same two statements.
-The IP is so strong that it can withstand A DECADE incompetency from the developers.
-I have a competent development team that is not PGI or Day 1.
I've said this for a year and a half now. The only reason MW:O is any sort of 'success' or maintaining it's longevity right now, is solely due to the IP that is "Battletech" and "Mechwarrior".
Also because this really is the only stompy robot game on the market currently. And I mean properly stompy, walking tank style, mechs. That, more than anything, has been a big part of MW's success because they've never had any competition in this department.
TOGSolid on
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Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
edited September 2014
PGI will be toast once they run out of mech models to pass off as "content". The artists over there are good, but the company itself is just not a creative or productive one. Once they max out on mechs that the whales will care about, that's pretty much game over for them and they'll be back to churning out third-rate third-party sequels or plain disband entirely; nobody in their right mind would let PGI have another big IP to work with.
PGI will be toast once they run out of mech models to pass off as "content". The artists over there are good, but the company itself is just not a creative or productive one. Once they max out on mechs that the whales will care about, that's pretty much game over for them and they'll be back to churning out third-rate third-party sequels or plain disband entirely; nobody in their right mind would let PGI have another big IP to work with.
I smell burning bread. IMO, the 4th Succession War and the War of 3039 fits better as a setting for their fledgling community warfare implementation, but they skip right to the Clan Invasion for the guaranteed cash infusion.
Black lives matter.
Law and Order ≠ Justice
ACNH Island Isla Cero: DA-3082-2045-4142
Captain of the SES Comptroller of the State
I've said this for a year and a half now. The only reason MW:O is any sort of 'success' or maintaining it's longevity right now, is solely due to the IP that is "Battletech" and "Mechwarrior".
Also because this really is the only stompy robot game on the market currently. And I mean properly stompy, walking tank style, mechs. That, more than anything, has been a big part of MW's success because they've never had any competition in this department.
Hawken is not optimized yet and doesn't have the weight and history that MWO has.
Is MWO even a good game once you remove love for the IP?
I've said this for a year and a half now. The only reason MW:O is any sort of 'success' or maintaining it's longevity right now, is solely due to the IP that is "Battletech" and "Mechwarrior".
Also because this really is the only stompy robot game on the market currently. And I mean properly stompy, walking tank style, mechs. That, more than anything, has been a big part of MW's success because they've never had any competition in this department.
Hawken is not optimized yet and doesn't have the weight and history that MWO has.
Is MWO even a good game once you remove love for the IP?
Hawken is also twitchy as shit which turns a lot of people off. It's more like Unreal Tournament with mechs than anything which is fine by me but not a great selling point for the people wanting a slower paced, properly stompy game.
And to answer your question: No. Hawken survives because it's a legitimately good game even if it's not everyone's cup of tea. The game looks great, the maps are fun, and the mechs have their own, unique flare. MWO survives because it's MechWarrior and it's the only game of it's kind out there. Kick that second part out of the equation with a "spiritual successor" and I think you'll see a lot of people bail on MW save for the super diehards.
TOGSolid on
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Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
I've said this for a year and a half now. The only reason MW:O is any sort of 'success' or maintaining it's longevity right now, is solely due to the IP that is "Battletech" and "Mechwarrior".
Also because this really is the only stompy robot game on the market currently. And I mean properly stompy, walking tank style, mechs. That, more than anything, has been a big part of MW's success because they've never had any competition in this department.
Hawken is not optimized yet and doesn't have the weight and history that MWO has.
Is MWO even a good game once you remove love for the IP?
Sort of, but not really. It has the stuff to make a good game from, but as has been pointed out in the MWO thread, PGI actually has the balance fucked from both the rookie end and the "competitive" end. And because they flatly refused to make common-sense decisions at the start of development, now they game is locked in an ever-deepening spiral of shitty mechanisms and tweaks because they can't fix the balance without pissing off the players that have stuck around despite all the crap.
If you took what PGI has right now and handed it over to a competent team, they could have something amazing out of this in a month or two, assuming the coding isn't completely shot to hell to the point of fixing the game actually being unfeasible. They would have to completely disregard the howling of the people who want to be able to min-max for easy gameplay (both in terms of veterans and rookies), but the game does have great potential.
We're talking about PGI. The same people who have employees that think that changing a value in an XML is some sort of black god damn magic. A procedure so draconic that it requires weeks of incantations and multiple sacrificed chickens as if PGI was staffed by Tech Priests attempting to will a Titan back into operating status. I highly suspect the code for the game is a bewildering mix of ultra god damn simple stuff that's been warped as if touched by the taint of Chaos into..well..in the maritime world there's a term for a box of rope (and yes, it's rope when it's still in the box) that has turned into a snarled mess due to someone pulling it out from the wrong end: "Box of assholes." That's PGI's code. A box of assholes.
Have I mentioned that backing Transverse is one of the biggest mistakes you could ever make in your life?
I firmly believe that if MWO was anything other than the Mechwarrior label, it would have died to its imbalance issues (jump sniping, high-alpha pinpoint damage that we *still* deal with) probably around June 2013. Maybe August 2013 when it was fully realized by the community that the ghost heat mechanic was balls.
Yes, Hawken and most other stompy robot titles, like Heavy Gear and Steel Battalion don't have the weight and history of Mechwarrior. They don't have the luxury of such an IP. I dare say there are parallels toe the situation with MMOs 'trying' to dethrone WoW. Nothing has the weight and momentum of WoW, and everything is compared against it.
Hawken plays more like a fast paced FPS to me actually. The frames don't have the weight and thump of heavy warmachines, they kinda glide and flit about. That said, Hawken is baller as fuck with an Oculus Rift.
Heavy Gear, I love the series, but it just doesnt have the impetus of Mechwarrior. Then again, Heavy Gear Assault is coming out, I think also with a F2P marketing model, so... we'll see...
I have a small ember in my heart for Steel Battalion. The $200 controller and $60 game pretty much relegated Steel Battalion to those of us who were willing to drop the money on something like that. It was starting to gain momentum, even in Line of Contact's twilight, but that Kinect abomination ruined a lot of it.
I believe that Steel Battalion could take the same niche as Arma3 in the simulation arenas. (Heck, Arma3 has some peeps adding in Front Mission mechs for the ultimate in combined arms warfare) If I were to make a new Steel Battalion, it would have to be on the computer to facilitate ''the 40button controller''. Maybe if Sony and Xbox are able to use keyboards that could work too. And then totally supporting joysticks, throttles, rudders, and multi-monitors for those people (@TOGSolid I'm looking at you) that want to build the full-sim experience.
We're talking about PGI. The same people who have employees that think that changing a value in an XML is some sort of black god damn magic. A procedure so draconic that it requires weeks of incantations and multiple sacrificed chickens as if PGI was staffed by Tech Priests attempting to will a Titan back into operating status. I highly suspect the code for the game is a bewildering mix of ultra god damn simple stuff that's been warped as if touched by the taint of Chaos into..well..in the maritime world there's a term for a box of rope (and yes, it's rope when it's still in the box) that has turned into a snarled mess due to someone pulling it out from the wrong end: "Box of assholes." That's PGI's code. A box of assholes.
Have I mentioned that backing Transverse is one of the biggest mistakes you could ever make in your life?
Awesome rant. 40k and maritime references. +100
DarkMecha on
Steam Profile | My Art | NID: DarkMecha (SW-4787-9571-8977) | PSN: DarkMecha
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BroloBroseidonLord of the BroceanRegistered Userregular
Hey so
If I were a dude who wanted to play Star Citizen
what package should I actually buy?
Is the $45 thingy enough to get me all of the game when it comes out? Is there any reason to look at more expensive versions or the subscriber things?
Is the $45 thingy enough to get me all of the game when it comes out? Is there any reason to look at more expensive versions or the subscriber things?
The $45 thingy will get you the entirety of the game, yes. It will also give you beta access and Arena Commander access. There is no reason to spend any more than the $45...unless you want to help fund even more of the game.
| Origin/R*SC: Ein7919 | Battle.net: Erlkonig#1448 | XBL: Lexicanum | Steam: Der Erlkönig (the umlaut is important) |
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Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
Is the $45 thingy enough to get me all of the game when it comes out? Is there any reason to look at more expensive versions or the subscriber things?
Literally anything beyond that $45 purchase is just additional funding for the game that happens to come with a ship. You can pitch more money at the game if you want, but one of the major points of this game is that essentially everything that is on sale and will be on sale is attainable in regular play in the Persistent Universe; the exceptions are potentially some special-offer ships, but even those will still be swipable or likely have equivalent versions.
More expensive versions will also net you a better ship to fly during these alpha stages, but it'd probably be better just to be patient at this point. Keep in mind that the full game isn't slated to be released for something like 12-18 months; the devs will be doing an ongoing release and update of different game modules, but the whole game is a ways off.
Ninja Snarl P on
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BroloBroseidonLord of the BroceanRegistered Userregular
DrakeEdgelord TrashBelow the ecliptic plane.Registered Userregular
Speaking of how much stuff costs, Elite:Dangerous Mercenary Edition pre-orders are out and very reasonably priced at $50US.
It comes with a lot of digital swag and a free Eagle. Any pre-order gets access to this edition too, so if you've bought into the beta you'll get this edition when the game releases.
lawl @ transverse. I mean, whatever the Hell it's even supposed to be. Seeing their progress bar tickles me pink.
I fell asleep halfway through the trailer, literally.
I could never tell if it was just some sour grapes on my part that I disliked PGI & MW:O, or if they really were just running a short-term scam. This seals the deal, I think. I mean, what the fuck - how are basic game mechanics a 'stretch goal'? If they raise, say, 800,000 dollars... what the fuck are they going to do with it? Apparently not make a game involving space flight, I guess?
I'm glad that the fraud is apparently transparent enough that they will not come anywhere near that 500,000 dollar mark. 2% of funds collected with 10 days left! GET HYPE! lawl
If they raise, say, 800,000 dollars... what the fuck are they going to do with it? Apparently not make a game involving space flight, I guess?
Space Car Wash simulator.
EDIT: Hah, I just had the best idea ever. There should be a Viscera Cleanup Detail expansion focusing on Transverse's attempt at funding. The player would have to clean up Russ Bullock's tears and all the built up dust that's settled where money was supposed to go.
EDIT EDIT: And it would all take place on an island.
but it'd probably be better just to be patient at this point.
BURN THE HERETIC!
SHAME FOR THE SHAME FLEET!
SHIPS FOR THE SHIP HANGAR!
Yeah, don't listen to this guy, he already owns all the ships you'll ever need.
Seriously, you'll be able to swipe, like, six ships from his hangar before he'd even notice.
You should absolutely listen to me because I am obviously a man of impeccable taste and trustworthiness. Look at my top hat, monocle, and well trimmed goatee that absolutely does not signify I'm actually a mirror universe replacement. How can you not have faith in my advice!?
Those landing platforms bug me.
Part of Elite's setting is that they don't have artificial gravity. But those are the same floor-oriented buildings from the rotating docks. There are crates sitting out in the open. What's holding them down? Sure, you could handwave it away, claim they're magnetic or something, but really Frontier's just reusing the art asset. The zero-g dock shouldn't look like that.
Those landing platforms bug me.
Part of Elite's setting is that they don't have artificial gravity. But those are the same floor-oriented buildings from the rotating docks. There are crates sitting out in the open. What's holding them down? Sure, you could handwave it away, claim they're magnetic or something, but really Frontier's just reusing the art asset. The zero-g dock shouldn't look like that.
What should a 0G dock look like then? I'm assuming anything in deep space is going to have magnetic latches, and having an open, flat landing area seems pretty reasonable to me.
Those landing platforms bug me.
Part of Elite's setting is that they don't have artificial gravity. But those are the same floor-oriented buildings from the rotating docks. There are crates sitting out in the open. What's holding them down? Sure, you could handwave it away, claim they're magnetic or something, but really Frontier's just reusing the art asset. The zero-g dock shouldn't look like that.
What should a 0G dock look like then? I'm assuming anything in deep space is going to have magnetic latches, and having an open, flat landing area seems pretty reasonable to me.
Real life shipping containers are twistlocked into place everywhere they go. They're not free to slide all around the deck of a ship. Which isn't to say they couldn't be magnetic in a sci-fi setting, but we already secure them in gravity as a matter of course.
Yeah, it's not far-fetched to think that they are maglocked or whatever.
What I'm curious about, when you land on those pads, do you just sit there? Or are they elevators that take you down and into a bay similar to actual stations. I guess they have elevators since you still have the "Enter Hangar" option, but I was just wondering from the viewpoint of when the "walking about" expansion gets launched.
It isn't just the crates. It's just... everything. That whole structure is designed for gravity. All the windows look out onto a flat plane, none look "up". There's a flat floor for rolling loads. It even has a ramp!
It's always possible to rationalize it. We could say that it's a mass-produced docking module, and they're just using the cheapest option.
I mean, you do have a point, it just doesn't bug me as much I guess. It is pretty obvious that they are reusing assets though, but if it bugged enough people I guess it could change? Personally I would think that the landing pads would still be covered (like a garage).
Those platforms probably are mass-produced, seeing how there's dozens of them inside each rotating station. But now I'm imagining a dock worker there, space suit on, strapping on an EVA unit to go out there and deal with cargo, just sort of staring out the window at the containers of cargo and the loading ramp that doesn't do anything.
I'm also imagining there are warning signs that say "Mind the Gap" along the edge of the platform, where it's originally intended to slot into the larger stations.
Have they added any bounce/jerk motion when the elevator is moving your ship around in the hangar, or does it still look like the ship has no momentum(i.e. you just instantly change direction of movement when the elevator does)?
Have they added any bounce/jerk motion when the elevator is moving your ship around in the hangar, or does it still look like the ship has no momentum(i.e. you just instantly change direction of movement when the elevator does)?
I always thought it was simply locked to the platform, whether magnetically or mechanically Feels very natural on the Rift at least!
Posts
And those goals blew so much ass. immeasurable ass
I mean, Jesus, those of us that played MW:O gave them *every* benefit of doubt through the first half of 2013 thinking they were working hard on the game... they weren't. they really weren't doing anything except mech models and skins. It should read like satire that a company can bungle every bit of PR and goodwill. It shouldn't be possible to have such a low standing among your customers, but here we are, Fall 2014 and they want to try their hands at another game.
I've said this for a year and a half now. The only reason MW:O is any sort of 'success' or maintaining it's longevity right now, is solely due to the IP that is "Battletech" and "Mechwarrior".
My god. Seriously.
I'm half tempted hire programming and art enthusiasts from right here in the Penny Arcade Forums and then provide a sales pitch to Microsoft and a Design Manifesto for my own MechWarrior Game consisting of the following two sentences. I could probably get a Kickstarter with the same two statements.
-The IP is so strong that it can withstand A DECADE incompetency from the developers.
-I have a competent development team that is not PGI or Day 1.
Steam - NotoriusBEN | Uplay - notoriusben | Xbox,Windows Live - ThatBEN
Also because this really is the only stompy robot game on the market currently. And I mean properly stompy, walking tank style, mechs. That, more than anything, has been a big part of MW's success because they've never had any competition in this department.
I smell burning bread. IMO, the 4th Succession War and the War of 3039 fits better as a setting for their fledgling community warfare implementation, but they skip right to the Clan Invasion for the guaranteed cash infusion.
Law and Order ≠ Justice
ACNH Island Isla Cero: DA-3082-2045-4142
Captain of the SES Comptroller of the State
Is MWO even a good game once you remove love for the IP?
http://www.fallout3nexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=16534
Hawken is also twitchy as shit which turns a lot of people off. It's more like Unreal Tournament with mechs than anything which is fine by me but not a great selling point for the people wanting a slower paced, properly stompy game.
And to answer your question: No. Hawken survives because it's a legitimately good game even if it's not everyone's cup of tea. The game looks great, the maps are fun, and the mechs have their own, unique flare. MWO survives because it's MechWarrior and it's the only game of it's kind out there. Kick that second part out of the equation with a "spiritual successor" and I think you'll see a lot of people bail on MW save for the super diehards.
Sort of, but not really. It has the stuff to make a good game from, but as has been pointed out in the MWO thread, PGI actually has the balance fucked from both the rookie end and the "competitive" end. And because they flatly refused to make common-sense decisions at the start of development, now they game is locked in an ever-deepening spiral of shitty mechanisms and tweaks because they can't fix the balance without pissing off the players that have stuck around despite all the crap.
If you took what PGI has right now and handed it over to a competent team, they could have something amazing out of this in a month or two, assuming the coding isn't completely shot to hell to the point of fixing the game actually being unfeasible. They would have to completely disregard the howling of the people who want to be able to min-max for easy gameplay (both in terms of veterans and rookies), but the game does have great potential.
Just not with PGI at the helm.
Have I mentioned that backing Transverse is one of the biggest mistakes you could ever make in your life?
http://www.fallout3nexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=16534
Yes, Hawken and most other stompy robot titles, like Heavy Gear and Steel Battalion don't have the weight and history of Mechwarrior. They don't have the luxury of such an IP. I dare say there are parallels toe the situation with MMOs 'trying' to dethrone WoW. Nothing has the weight and momentum of WoW, and everything is compared against it.
Hawken plays more like a fast paced FPS to me actually. The frames don't have the weight and thump of heavy warmachines, they kinda glide and flit about. That said, Hawken is baller as fuck with an Oculus Rift.
Heavy Gear, I love the series, but it just doesnt have the impetus of Mechwarrior. Then again, Heavy Gear Assault is coming out, I think also with a F2P marketing model, so... we'll see...
I have a small ember in my heart for Steel Battalion. The $200 controller and $60 game pretty much relegated Steel Battalion to those of us who were willing to drop the money on something like that. It was starting to gain momentum, even in Line of Contact's twilight, but that Kinect abomination ruined a lot of it.
I believe that Steel Battalion could take the same niche as Arma3 in the simulation arenas. (Heck, Arma3 has some peeps adding in Front Mission mechs for the ultimate in combined arms warfare) If I were to make a new Steel Battalion, it would have to be on the computer to facilitate ''the 40button controller''. Maybe if Sony and Xbox are able to use keyboards that could work too. And then totally supporting joysticks, throttles, rudders, and multi-monitors for those people (@TOGSolid I'm looking at you) that want to build the full-sim experience.
Steam - NotoriusBEN | Uplay - notoriusben | Xbox,Windows Live - ThatBEN
http://www.fallout3nexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=16534
Yeah, it's pretty amazing that PGI's reputation is so bad that it's actually hard to confine PGI's scope of screwups to any one thread.
Awesome rant. 40k and maritime references. +100
If I were a dude who wanted to play Star Citizen
what package should I actually buy?
Is the $45 thingy enough to get me all of the game when it comes out? Is there any reason to look at more expensive versions or the subscriber things?
The $45 thingy will get you the entirety of the game, yes. It will also give you beta access and Arena Commander access. There is no reason to spend any more than the $45...unless you want to help fund even more of the game.
More expensive versions will also net you a better ship to fly during these alpha stages, but it'd probably be better just to be patient at this point. Keep in mind that the full game isn't slated to be released for something like 12-18 months; the devs will be doing an ongoing release and update of different game modules, but the whole game is a ways off.
It comes with a lot of digital swag and a free Eagle. Any pre-order gets access to this edition too, so if you've bought into the beta you'll get this edition when the game releases.
SHAME FOR THE SHAME FLEET!
SHIPS FOR THE SHIP HANGAR!
Yeah, don't listen to this guy, he already owns all the ships you'll ever need.
Seriously, you'll be able to swipe, like, six ships from his hangar before he'd even notice.
I fell asleep halfway through the trailer, literally.
I could never tell if it was just some sour grapes on my part that I disliked PGI & MW:O, or if they really were just running a short-term scam. This seals the deal, I think. I mean, what the fuck - how are basic game mechanics a 'stretch goal'? If they raise, say, 800,000 dollars... what the fuck are they going to do with it? Apparently not make a game involving space flight, I guess?
I'm glad that the fraud is apparently transparent enough that they will not come anywhere near that 500,000 dollar mark. 2% of funds collected with 10 days left! GET HYPE! lawl
Space Car Wash simulator.
EDIT: Hah, I just had the best idea ever. There should be a Viscera Cleanup Detail expansion focusing on Transverse's attempt at funding. The player would have to clean up Russ Bullock's tears and all the built up dust that's settled where money was supposed to go.
EDIT EDIT: And it would all take place on an island.
You should absolutely listen to me because I am obviously a man of impeccable taste and trustworthiness. Look at my top hat, monocle, and well trimmed goatee that absolutely does not signify I'm actually a mirror universe replacement. How can you not have faith in my advice!?
youtu.be/Ay1lSy7dSIU
EDIT: I'm sure it would look better if I could figure out how to embed it in a post..
Part of Elite's setting is that they don't have artificial gravity. But those are the same floor-oriented buildings from the rotating docks. There are crates sitting out in the open. What's holding them down? Sure, you could handwave it away, claim they're magnetic or something, but really Frontier's just reusing the art asset. The zero-g dock shouldn't look like that.
Nintendo Network ID: imperialparadox | 3DS FC: 2294-4029-6793
XBL Gamertag: Paradox3351 | PSN: imperialparadox
What should a 0G dock look like then? I'm assuming anything in deep space is going to have magnetic latches, and having an open, flat landing area seems pretty reasonable to me.
Real life shipping containers are twistlocked into place everywhere they go. They're not free to slide all around the deck of a ship. Which isn't to say they couldn't be magnetic in a sci-fi setting, but we already secure them in gravity as a matter of course.
What I'm curious about, when you land on those pads, do you just sit there? Or are they elevators that take you down and into a bay similar to actual stations. I guess they have elevators since you still have the "Enter Hangar" option, but I was just wondering from the viewpoint of when the "walking about" expansion gets launched.
I want to take a spacewalk is what I'm saying.
Nintendo Network ID: imperialparadox | 3DS FC: 2294-4029-6793
XBL Gamertag: Paradox3351 | PSN: imperialparadox
It's always possible to rationalize it. We could say that it's a mass-produced docking module, and they're just using the cheapest option.
Still bothers me.
Nintendo Network ID: imperialparadox | 3DS FC: 2294-4029-6793
XBL Gamertag: Paradox3351 | PSN: imperialparadox
I'm also imagining there are warning signs that say "Mind the Gap" along the edge of the platform, where it's originally intended to slot into the larger stations.
Nintendo Network ID: imperialparadox | 3DS FC: 2294-4029-6793
XBL Gamertag: Paradox3351 | PSN: imperialparadox
you SHOULD mind the gap, especially out in space
I mean
it's fucking space out there.
ftfy
I always thought it was simply locked to the platform, whether magnetically or mechanically
Unreal Engine 4 Developers Community.
I'm working on a cute little video game! Here's a link for you.