The new forums will be named Coin Return (based on the most recent vote)! You can check on the status and timeline of the transition to the new forums here.
The Guiding Principles and New Rules document is now in effect.
Explain the ending of "John Dies at the End" for me. SPOILERS INSIDE!!
Arson Welles
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
OK, so I read through this awesome piece of fiction about 6 months ago. And I thought I had it figured out.
Specifically the part where
Is that correct? For some reason this entire plot point has flown from my mind, which may possibly be because I watched the movie soon afterwards. I'm reading the second one right now, and I'm about half way through it, and this has yet to be mentioned, which, if I'm remembering correctly, would kind of be a big deal?
Specifically the part where
the David Wong who is narrating the story is not actually the David Wong who most of the stuff happened to, but actually a clone/monster from that other dimension that was sent to kill the real David Wong and take his place.
Is that correct? For some reason this entire plot point has flown from my mind, which may possibly be because I watched the movie soon afterwards. I'm reading the second one right now, and I'm about half way through it, and this has yet to be mentioned, which, if I'm remembering correctly, would kind of be a big deal?
0
Posts
That's in the first book, anyway. Haven't read the second.
Paraphrased from memory:
The part that always got me in the story is their friend that never actually made it into the story, because he never existed.
Disagree strongly, though they're both good.
Regarding the original question, as everyone else addressed plus:
The big question was "Will Monster Dave ever turn evil on everyone?" It really haunts Dave, but John sort of just lets it go because Dave is still functionally there, and he'll just take it as it comes.
It cast a pall on the whole story for me that Dave died and everyone who knew didn't really seem to care.
Also, Jason Pargin (David Wong) is hugely interested in general in fundamental questions of consciousness, sub-conscious, and the influence of outside forces on identity. He explores this sort of thing in many of his articles on, say, marketing. What do you define as you? When you have the urge to, say, buy a Pepsi, where did that idea come from?
Scaling it back from that, what is the core role of identity in consciousness anyway?
Etc. Etc.
Also dicks. Huge spider demon dicks.
These two books together are just some of my favorite things. And I agree in general that
Basically, motives make evil, not appearance or even humanity. The movie Men in Black makes the same point in many fewer words.
And as a huge Star Trek fan, that transporter thing? Yeah, ever since I found out how they worked there was no way I would ever use one.
I don't know anyone else who has read these books in their entirety, I'd love to sit and deconstruct them, book-group style.
I never really thought of it that way. It certainly makes a lot more sense in that light.
that said,
There were some really awesome philosophical discussions on that forum that weren't quite as sophisticated as the stuff you get in D&D here, which is fine by me because they didn't get too academic. It's kinda weird to see a guy who I knew for running a forum filled with dick jokes and a song about a rape van having his self-published book turned into a movie. But I think back to some of those topics and think that yeah, maybe Wong was thinking about that when he wrote this.
Thanks for the insight, I wasn't sure of that.
Also, I would love to discuss these books. If someone starts something up, let me know!
Same.. especially if that involved re-reading it, chapter by chapter, and going over the whole thing with a fine-tooth comb. I've never had the chance to do that.
That's one of the things that sort of happens, yeah. Although Fred Durst's point might also have been, "How can you determine the difference between something that has always been this way versus something that was changed in your perception."
I also really love the idea that the things wouldn't kill you but erase you, literally scrubbing away your existance.
But there was pretty much nothing worth discussing from the second book at all.
Glad someone else felt the same way.
I mean, I ENJOYED the second book. But it felt like fan service pulp rather than the new ground the first one hit.
What was displeasing about it? I still grin like an idiot when I think about "I know how we'll solve this problem!"
I've read both of them multiple times and I'd be totally down for that.
The movie made me sad
And now I want to reread the first book. I had a first edition of it...I lent it to someone and haven't gotten it back, but I'll have to hunt him down and solve that.
The movie could have been a lot worse. I enjoyed it.
The parts they cut, though, tend to be the parts that made the book great. They also blended together the stories when the book is really two consecutive stories.
Since the book has been in a box I can't find since we moved, I'm safe.
xbl - HowYouGetAnts
steam - WeAreAllGeth
There was a lot that was cut, but so much happens in the book, there was no way that they would be able to fit it all into a 90 - 120 minute movie.
I liked the movie for what it was but I hated the ending. Everything up until the ending was good, but it was almost like they forgot that they had to actually end the movie and just said "OK, well...wait, I know, Deus Ex Machina!" Other than the ending, I think they did what they could with the source material, and it was, for the most part, a good movie. Plus, like, Paul Giamatti.
Well when you let John make plans, what else can you expect really