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I am absolutely loving the art for this, and the dialogue (particularly the Western side) is some of my favorite writing I've seen from Tycho in quite a while. But man the pacing feels weird in this one. Three Western strips, then *bam* Sci-Fi! for two strips then *bam* back to the Western again, seemingly right where we left off. While the Sci-Fi stuff doesn't bother me, it doesn't seem to narratively mesh well with where they stuck the strips. There's nothing in Sand 3 that naturally leads to Sand 4 and what's being discussed. In fact, the "He ain't got no heaven to sell" and "This place ain't home" feels like it would have made a far more natural transition to strip 4 which, when I read it the first time, I no-kidding wondered if they'd uploaded the wrong strip until I read the news post.
Keep in mind that Penny Arcade isn't a narrative webcomic and rarely (if ever) has anything this recurring. I think when a lot of webcomics that are normally one-off jokes decide to do arcs, diehard fans of the daily jokes think they have to leave until the regularly scheduled programming comes back. I much prefer good arcs, but there's that. Maybe G&T feel like they need to intersperse the two styles of this single story to keep up variety, so if someone doesn't like the Western or the Sci-Fi strips, they don't have to wait as long to get what they like. All while building up for the awesome moment when the stories collide.
Keep in mind that Penny Arcade isn't a narrative webcomic and rarely (if ever) has anything this recurring. I think when a lot of webcomics that are normally one-off jokes decide to do arcs, diehard fans of the daily jokes think they have to leave until the regularly scheduled programming comes back. I much prefer good arcs, but there's that. Maybe G&T feel like they need to intersperse the two styles of this single story to keep up variety, so if someone doesn't like the Western or the Sci-Fi strips, they don't have to wait as long to get what they like. All while building up for the awesome moment when the stories collide.
10 years ago you could have made that argument, but after Armadeaddon, Paint the Line, the numerous Cardboard Tube Samurai series, Automata (twice), Lookouts (twice), etc., I think their readership has gotten pretty well accustomed to these extended narrative runs.
Edit: and again it's not that I dislike meshing the two elements. I just think that resequencing the strips could have significantly improved the story's flow, where Immortal Guy's lines today could have been used to segue into the SciFi stuff and totally change the nature of the story instead of it feeling like some completely out-of-nowhere shift.
Mmmm, not sure I'm liking the Trigun derivative nature of this.
It's a similar setting, but already a different tale. It's probably got as much in common with Trigun as The Walking Dead does with 28 Days Later - similar intros and window dressing, wildly diverging stories.
I wouldn't say I was unsettled by it but it did seem kind of abrupt; like if it hadn't been for the title I'd have thought they were gonna do a few panels based on some totally unrelated concept that I'd forgotten about
but we'll see how much more context gets provided I guess
hold your head high soldier, it ain't over yet
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
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ComradebotLord of DinosaursHouston, TXRegistered Userregular
When are they gonna get to the fireworks factory...
Pacing on this is atrocious.
Do we know when the regularly scheduled programing be back?
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Monkey Ball WarriorA collection of mediocre hatsSeattle, WARegistered Userregular
I'm surprised people are upset about having to follow two threads of plot. I know it is double the dreaded continuity than you signed up for, but still...
"I resent the entire notion of a body as an ante and then raise you a generalized dissatisfaction with physicality itself" -- Tycho
Mmmm, not sure I'm liking the Trigun derivative nature of this.
So far we've got space ships somehow connected to a 'western' setting. Are you calling Firefly a Trigun derivative too? (though admittedly that would combine shapeships, westerns and distinctive coats and guns)
Keep in mind that Penny Arcade isn't a narrative webcomic and rarely (if ever) has anything this recurring. I think when a lot of webcomics that are normally one-off jokes decide to do arcs, diehard fans of the daily jokes think they have to leave until the regularly scheduled programming comes back. I much prefer good arcs, but there's that. Maybe G&T feel like they need to intersperse the two styles of this single story to keep up variety, so if someone doesn't like the Western or the Sci-Fi strips, they don't have to wait as long to get what they like. All while building up for the awesome moment when the stories collide.
Should probably point out that this is a side project that just happens to be appearing in the same space as the normal Penny Arcade strip. As an example, the Lookouts strips were Lookouts Strips, not Penny arcade strips. Same with this. So it's not a Penny Arcade arc, it's a different comic written by the same guys that happens to share the same webspace at the moment. Also, Sand was intended to be a Sci-Fi the entire time (Jerry let slip at some point), so it's not that they're switching between the two in order to pander to different audiences. It's just an example of writer's intent.
Well, my point was not that they were pandering, but that they may have partially chosen their scene transitions to provide variety for people who prefer one aesthetic or the other. Of course, this is something writers do even in books--maintaining pacing by switching POVs. In this case, I think it was well done. "Ain't got no heaven to sell" could have been a decent form of transition, but this way we got the reveal (this is a futuristic, extraterrestrial setting) right before a line that makes much more sense with that knowledge (we ain't supposed to be here). Foreshadowing works as a device, but so does waiting until after a dramatic reveal and then following up with information that expands on that reveal.
I think the pacing is fine, I just dread the day we have to end this to go back to regular stuff. I love the regular stuff, but this story is awesome. Even if it meant halving the update schedule, I'd be perfectly content if they put this stuff up on a new portion of the site, so they could keep it going while keeping the regular stuff updating as well. (Again, to clarify--I'm not saying they should go from writing one comic to writing two with the same update schedule: I'm saying they could keep writing this one and Penny Arcade, each half as frequently, and uploading them on separate parts of the site. It's not like Penny Arcade has a rigid upload schedule anyway). I suspect Jerry's only got so much material in mind though--he seems to enjoy coming up with awesome premises over extensive narratives--at least for the comics. I guess I'll just soak in all the SAND he gives me while his muse continues to churn it out.
Isn't "this world is not my home" a pretty common message in many Christian denominations? I'm digging this strip, just seems like that message alone wouldn't upset anyone.
Depends on how aggressive you get with it. "We're just passing through" wouldn't stir up many Christians. "We were never meant to be here in the first place" would cause a bit more of a ruckus.
Edit: Related tangent: who ain't got no heaven to sell? Knowing what we know the obvious interpretation is the leadership is offering heaven but they've bluffing. The other, that I prefer, is the protagonist himself is setting up the contrast. "We don't belong here. we should be elsewhere" could be the heaven he's selling. He knows that most of the time there is no heaven, but he really does offer it, and therefore their suspicion is justified even if he can actually follow through on his promises.
( It's not like Penny Arcade has a rigid upload schedule anyway)
Wha- what?! If there is anything that you can depend on, it is a new strip Monday, Wednesday, and Friday. Many times throughout the Show and other venues Mike and Jerry have emphasized regular consistent updates as a significant reason for their success, and something webcomic artists should adhere to.
Well, my point was not that they were pandering, but that they may have partially chosen their scene transitions to provide variety for people who prefer one aesthetic or the other. Of course, this is something writers do even in books--maintaining pacing by switching POVs. In this case, I think it was well done. "Ain't got no heaven to sell" could have been a decent form of transition, but this way we got the reveal (this is a futuristic, extraterrestrial setting) right before a line that makes much more sense with that knowledge (we ain't supposed to be here). Foreshadowing works as a device, but so does waiting until after a dramatic reveal and then following up with information that expands on that reveal.
I think the pacing is fine, I just dread the day we have to end this to go back to regular stuff. I love the regular stuff, but this story is awesome. Even if it meant halving the update schedule, I'd be perfectly content if they put this stuff up on a new portion of the site, so they could keep it going while keeping the regular stuff updating as well. (Again, to clarify--I'm not saying they should go from writing one comic to writing two with the same update schedule: I'm saying they could keep writing this one and Penny Arcade, each half as frequently, and uploading them on separate parts of the site. It's not like Penny Arcade has a rigid upload schedule anyway). I suspect Jerry's only got so much material in mind though--he seems to enjoy coming up with awesome premises over extensive narratives--at least for the comics. I guess I'll just soak in all the SAND he gives me while his muse continues to churn it out.
Actually if you kept up with the whole reason behind the kickstarter at all, you'd know why they can't keep adding on different comics. They have to pay their employees, those employees are paid through the various side projects they do for companies and through swag. The side projects they do for profit eat up large amounts of Mike and Jerry's time they would otherwise spend doing Automata or Sand. Do you really think, given any slim chance, that Mike wouldn't still be 100% all over Lookouts? They have actual commercial obligations that limits their schedules. They also have 3 major conventions to take part in, a Charity to act as the faces for, and family they like to see.
Well, my point was not that they were pandering, but that they may have partially chosen their scene transitions to provide variety for people who prefer one aesthetic or the other. Of course, this is something writers do even in books--maintaining pacing by switching POVs. In this case, I think it was well done. "Ain't got no heaven to sell" could have been a decent form of transition, but this way we got the reveal (this is a futuristic, extraterrestrial setting) right before a line that makes much more sense with that knowledge (we ain't supposed to be here). Foreshadowing works as a device, but so does waiting until after a dramatic reveal and then following up with information that expands on that reveal.
I think the pacing is fine, I just dread the day we have to end this to go back to regular stuff. I love the regular stuff, but this story is awesome. Even if it meant halving the update schedule, I'd be perfectly content if they put this stuff up on a new portion of the site, so they could keep it going while keeping the regular stuff updating as well. (Again, to clarify--I'm not saying they should go from writing one comic to writing two with the same update schedule: I'm saying they could keep writing this one and Penny Arcade, each half as frequently, and uploading them on separate parts of the site. It's not like Penny Arcade has a rigid upload schedule anyway). I suspect Jerry's only got so much material in mind though--he seems to enjoy coming up with awesome premises over extensive narratives--at least for the comics. I guess I'll just soak in all the SAND he gives me while his muse continues to churn it out.
Actually if you kept up with the whole reason behind the kickstarter at all, you'd know why they can't keep adding on different comics. They have to pay their employees, those employees are paid through the various side projects they do for companies and through swag. The side projects they do for profit eat up large amounts of Mike and Jerry's time they would otherwise spend doing Automata or Sand. Do you really think, given any slim chance, that Mike wouldn't still be 100% all over Lookouts? They have actual commercial obligations that limits their schedules. They also have 3 major conventions to take part in, a Charity to act as the faces for, and family they like to see.
I wasn't trying to say they were lazy...did you miss the part of my post where I expressly stated that in no way would I expect busy businessmen like them to have time to keep up with multiple comics at once? I thought I put in a clear enough disclaimer that I wasn't just an entitled fan whining that I wanted more content, and that Mike and Jerry have every right to put out whatever content in whatever proportions they feel inclined to do, but I guess I needed to make it more apparent. Since I don't know Mike, or any more about him than he shares in his newsposts, I have no idea whether he would rather be doing something else. I assume, given the prestige of this comic, that Mike and Jerry are putting their time and creative effort into what they want to do.
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10 years ago you could have made that argument, but after Armadeaddon, Paint the Line, the numerous Cardboard Tube Samurai series, Automata (twice), Lookouts (twice), etc., I think their readership has gotten pretty well accustomed to these extended narrative runs.
Edit: and again it's not that I dislike meshing the two elements. I just think that resequencing the strips could have significantly improved the story's flow, where Immortal Guy's lines today could have been used to segue into the SciFi stuff and totally change the nature of the story instead of it feeling like some completely out-of-nowhere shift.
It's a similar setting, but already a different tale. It's probably got as much in common with Trigun as The Walking Dead does with 28 Days Later - similar intros and window dressing, wildly diverging stories.
IOW, I suspect that when we look back on this story once it's finished we'll find that the shifts were well-done and appropriate.
My .02 and nothing more, of course.
But fuck you — no, fuck y'all, that's as blunt as it gets"
- Kendrick Lamar, "The Blacker the Berry"
but we'll see how much more context gets provided I guess
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
But seriously, enjoying it.
Do we know when the regularly scheduled programing be back?
Should probably point out that this is a side project that just happens to be appearing in the same space as the normal Penny Arcade strip. As an example, the Lookouts strips were Lookouts Strips, not Penny arcade strips. Same with this. So it's not a Penny Arcade arc, it's a different comic written by the same guys that happens to share the same webspace at the moment. Also, Sand was intended to be a Sci-Fi the entire time (Jerry let slip at some point), so it's not that they're switching between the two in order to pander to different audiences. It's just an example of writer's intent.
I think the pacing is fine, I just dread the day we have to end this to go back to regular stuff. I love the regular stuff, but this story is awesome. Even if it meant halving the update schedule, I'd be perfectly content if they put this stuff up on a new portion of the site, so they could keep it going while keeping the regular stuff updating as well. (Again, to clarify--I'm not saying they should go from writing one comic to writing two with the same update schedule: I'm saying they could keep writing this one and Penny Arcade, each half as frequently, and uploading them on separate parts of the site. It's not like Penny Arcade has a rigid upload schedule anyway). I suspect Jerry's only got so much material in mind though--he seems to enjoy coming up with awesome premises over extensive narratives--at least for the comics. I guess I'll just soak in all the SAND he gives me while his muse continues to churn it out.
Edit: Related tangent: who ain't got no heaven to sell? Knowing what we know the obvious interpretation is the leadership is offering heaven but they've bluffing. The other, that I prefer, is the protagonist himself is setting up the contrast. "We don't belong here. we should be elsewhere" could be the heaven he's selling. He knows that most of the time there is no heaven, but he really does offer it, and therefore their suspicion is justified even if he can actually follow through on his promises.
Wha- what?! If there is anything that you can depend on, it is a new strip Monday, Wednesday, and Friday. Many times throughout the Show and other venues Mike and Jerry have emphasized regular consistent updates as a significant reason for their success, and something webcomic artists should adhere to.
Actually if you kept up with the whole reason behind the kickstarter at all, you'd know why they can't keep adding on different comics. They have to pay their employees, those employees are paid through the various side projects they do for companies and through swag. The side projects they do for profit eat up large amounts of Mike and Jerry's time they would otherwise spend doing Automata or Sand. Do you really think, given any slim chance, that Mike wouldn't still be 100% all over Lookouts? They have actual commercial obligations that limits their schedules. They also have 3 major conventions to take part in, a Charity to act as the faces for, and family they like to see.
I wasn't trying to say they were lazy...did you miss the part of my post where I expressly stated that in no way would I expect busy businessmen like them to have time to keep up with multiple comics at once? I thought I put in a clear enough disclaimer that I wasn't just an entitled fan whining that I wanted more content, and that Mike and Jerry have every right to put out whatever content in whatever proportions they feel inclined to do, but I guess I needed to make it more apparent. Since I don't know Mike, or any more about him than he shares in his newsposts, I have no idea whether he would rather be doing something else. I assume, given the prestige of this comic, that Mike and Jerry are putting their time and creative effort into what they want to do.