CDs, copyrights and legal question

Rhino

Hi. I want to keep this thread clean please (so it doesn't get locked), so please don't post any illegal suggestions.

This is a serious thread.

I have a few CDs:

They where legally purchased
I have orignal CD
I have orignal case

I do Not have receipts
I do Not have backups of them.

The problem: 3 of them are cracked/broken (phsyically) and another one is all messed up on the bottom. The Net effect of this, is that they CDs don't play. It was my fault that the CDs got broken.

Is there any way I can Legally get another copy of these CDs and/or Legally get the data from them [in mp3 format so I can put it on my iPods] for low/no cost?

FyreWulff

The legal-est way to do it would be to:

*find a friend that also owns said CDs
*trade the broken up CDs for his intact CDs.
*You now own these CDs. Rip.
*Trade back the unbroken CDs for the smash CDs.

for the scratched up, you should be able to find a local music or game store that will charge you a couple of bucks to buff it and make it like-new again.

Rhino

thanks. That's a good suggestion, but what if I don't have any friends that have the same CDs as me?

FyreWulff

Otherwise, to stay perfectly legal, you would have to buy the CD again, or hope your library checks out the CD.

Doc

You already own a license to listen to the music. There's a reason that RIAA lawsuits only go after people who upload music. Keep in mind that using bittorrent is "uploading" music.

Uncle Long

Really? Just uploading of files?

OP: great spoiler.

Rhino

Doc wrote: »

You already own a license to listen to the music. There's a reason that RIAA lawsuits only go after people who upload music. Keep in mind that using bittorrent is "uploading" music.

so legally I can download it?

If RIAA shows up busting in my doors, throwing lawsuits in my rooms then I can just show them the broken CD and they'll back off?

Wylder

Fair use entitles you to make copies of your legal CDs for your own use.

I think you might strictly speaking have problems if you download, because you aren't making copies of your own CDs, you are really making copies of someone elses CDs.

twmjr

It depends on how you interpret fair use. A reasonable and...well...fair interpretation of fair use would mean that you could download the tracks so long as you don't upload any of them to anyone else in the process (i.e. no bittorrent); however, unfortunately, fair use isn't always interpreted that way. To be absolutely in the clear, FyreWulff's suggestion holds up the best.

Will you get in trouble for just downloading the tracks? Probably not, but the RIAA et al certainly think you should.

FyreWulff

If it was just me, I would download the tracks - the advice I gave was the least grey area I could think of.

twmjr

FyreWulff wrote: »

If it was just me, I would download the tracks - the advice I gave was the least grey area I could think of.

I would do the same thing, but I'm hesitant to actually suggest the OP do so due to the dubious legality of it.

Captain Awesomeftw

My take on it is this:

The way that RIAA lawsuits work and the way that music is marketed, you're not actually buying the music. What you get for your fifteen bucks at the store is a license to listen to the songs by that artist, in the privacy of your home, not for profit.

That being said, I see no reason why your license for that information would cease to be valid with the destruction of the medium that originally held it. And if you download it, provided that you only download the same album you have that license for, you should be in the clear. Each disc is the same, and contains the same same license for the same information.

EggyToast

Download the tracks. You already bought them, your media broke, and the company offers no recourse (intentionally). If they were to sue you, you have the CDs to prove that technically you own the songs. They're just unplayable on that medium.

Ideally you'd be able to log into HotBandILike.com and simply redownload the tracks as .wav files to burn to CD again, to replace your existing copy. Alas, that is not the case.

blincoln

Although downloading them is true to the spirit of the law, it's not legal according to the letter of it. For the fair use backup right to apply, you must be backing up your own copy, not copying it from someone else.

IIRC, this is one of the things that spelled the end of mp3.com back in the sort of olden days. They had a service where once you registered a CD on their website, you could access the same music in mp3 format (from their database) on any PC with an internet connection. Because it wasn't copied *from the owner's copy*, it was illegal.

I think it's dumb, because they are the same bits, but it's how the law is right now.

Delzhand

If you want to be perfectly legal by the RIAA, you can't even make backup copies as part of fair use. In the content industry's tri-annual review of the DMCA, they argued that making copies was not part of fair use even though it has been allowed historically (and by their own lawyers). In fact, ripping a CD to put it on your portable media player is also not fair use.

So realistically, according to the RIAA, not only can't you download the songs, but you can't back them up to begin with.

The [submitted arguments in favor of granting exemptions to the DMCA] provide no arguments or legal authority that making back up copies of CDs is a noninfringing use. In addition, the submissions provide no evidence that access controls are currently preventing them from making back up copies of CDs or that they are likely to do so in the future. Myriad online downloading services are available and offer varying types of digital rights management alternatives. For example, the Apple FairPlay technology allows users to make a limited number of copies for personal use. Presumably, consumers concerned with the ability to make back up copies would choose to purchase music from a service that allowed such copying. Even if CDs do become damaged, replacements are readily available at affordable prices. Similar to the motion picture industry, the recording industry has faced, in online piracy, a direct attack on its ability to enjoy its copyrights.

In other words, CD's have such low failure rate and are so inexpensive that there's no need to back them up!

Doc

Delzhand wrote: »

If you want to be perfectly legal by the RIAA, you can't even make backup copies as part of fair use. In the content industry's tri-annual review of the DMCA, they argued that making copies was not part of fair use even though it has been allowed historically (and by their own lawyers). In fact, ripping a CD to put it on your portable media player is also not fair use.

So realistically, according to the RIAA, not only can't you download the songs, but you can't back them up to begin with.

The [submitted arguments in favor of granting exemptions to the DMCA] provide no arguments or legal authority that making back up copies of CDs is a noninfringing use. In addition, the submissions provide no evidence that access controls are currently preventing them from making back up copies of CDs or that they are likely to do so in the future. Myriad online downloading services are available and offer varying types of digital rights management alternatives. For example, the Apple FairPlay technology allows users to make a limited number of copies for personal use. Presumably, consumers concerned with the ability to make back up copies would choose to purchase music from a service that allowed such copying. Even if CDs do become damaged, replacements are readily available at affordable prices. Similar to the motion picture industry, the recording industry has faced, in online piracy, a direct attack on its ability to enjoy its copyrights.

In other words, CD's have such low failure rate and are so inexpensive that there's no need to back them up!

Good thing the RIAA isn't the ones who have the final say in interpreting the law. Like I said earlier - they don't go after people who download music, only those who upload. They know going after people who download content is legally risky, and a judgment against them (which apparently would be somewhat likely) would not be good for the health of their business.

Rhino

Delzhand wrote: »

If you want to be perfectly legal by the RIAA, you can't even make backup copies as part of fair use. In the content industry's tri-annual review of the DMCA, they argued that making copies was not part of fair use even though it has been allowed historically (and by their own lawyers). In fact, ripping a CD to put it on your portable media player is also not fair use.

So realistically, according to the RIAA, not only can't you download the songs, but you can't back them up to begin with.

The [submitted arguments in favor of granting exemptions to the DMCA] provide no arguments or legal authority that making back up copies of CDs is a noninfringing use. In addition, the submissions provide no evidence that access controls are currently preventing them from making back up copies of CDs or that they are likely to do so in the future. Myriad online downloading services are available and offer varying types of digital rights management alternatives. For example, the Apple FairPlay technology allows users to make a limited number of copies for personal use. Presumably, consumers concerned with the ability to make back up copies would choose to purchase music from a service that allowed such copying. Even if CDs do become damaged, replacements are readily available at affordable prices. Similar to the motion picture industry, the recording industry has faced, in online piracy, a direct attack on its ability to enjoy its copyrights.

In other words, CD's have such low failure rate and are so inexpensive that there's no need to back them up!

hrm.... so I just ripped about 25 Gigs of music from my legally owned music CDs into .mp3 format and have probably about 10 more gigs in [legally owned] "Audio Books". Soon, I will have a working mp3 player again and will upload these gigs to that player. Is the RIAA going to be coming in my house, killing all my mp3s?