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[PATV] Friday, September 13, 2013 - Extra Credits Season 7, Ep. EH 02: Extra History: The Second Pun

DogDog Registered User, Administrator, Vanilla Staff admin
edited September 2013 in The Penny Arcade Hub

image[PATV] Friday, September 13, 2013 - Extra Credits Season 7, Ep. EH 02: Extra History: The Second Punic War Begins

Most of the research for these videos comes from: Polybius' The Histories And Livy's History of Rome But if you just want an overview, here's a wikipedia link.

Read the full story here

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  • AclippingerAclippinger Registered User regular

    EC PennyArcadus

  • HallainzilHallainzil Registered User new member
    This is excellent stuff. Also, kudos to the team behind Rome II for making this happen - would love to see more companies try something similar!

  • Mr.MoustacheMr.Moustache Slayer of Strings SeattleRegistered User new member
    The Empire Strikes Back of military history

  • Huttj509Huttj509 Registered User regular
    "On the 20th they won't fall for it, we'll attack on the 21st."

    Making good use of the Roman time-share leadership. Brilliant.

  • Jim SharkmagicJim Sharkmagic That's the Sharkmagic magic. England, UKRegistered User regular
    Ooh, this was brilliant! Excellent stuff.

  • HoytyHoyty Registered User regular
    Two "Extra" episodes in one week!? This makes me all tingly.

  • Descendant XDescendant X Skyrim is my god now. Outpost 31Registered User regular
    This is great. I've been looking forward to this all week.

    For a fantastic and much longer examination of the Punic Wars, look up Hardcore History. Episodes 21-23 are all about the war, and give a description of this battle that will curl your toenails.

    Garry: I know you gentlemen have been through a lot, but when you find the time I'd rather not spend the rest of the winter TIED TO THIS FUCKING COUCH!
  • VelmeranVelmeran Registered User regular
    I wish there was some way to say when I buy Total War: Rome 2, that hey Devs, this was the best advertisement you could do with out having to make Dudebro cinematics and feature bullet point list that mean nothing.

  • BrainleechBrainleech 機知に富んだコメントはここにあります Registered User regular
    Yes the Second Punic war was where the Roman Republic dies and the empire is born

  • fizzixfizzix Registered User regular
    I am really enjoying this series, especially the presentation of the Carthaginians. Most of the history we have access to was written by the Romans or those sympathetic to them. The Greek Polybius wrote a thorough and influential history of the punic wars, but he was a client of the Scipio family and thus prone to a certain amount of flattery towards their ancestors.

    A good book about the Carthaginian side, making use of what sources there are as well as modern archaeological evidence, is "Carthage Must be Destroyed" by Richard Miles. It's written in a pleasant and accessible style, as a bonus, so reading it isn't a chore, and it covers everything from life in the city itself to naming conventions (explaining why so many of them had the same name!) as well as the various battles and campaigns.

    Really looking forward to the next one. Cannae!

  • trevoracioustrevoracious Registered User regular
    Do like.

  • UriainUriain Frantically reloading Toronto, CanadaRegistered User regular
    I am really enjoying this series, I hope you guys consider doing other "extra credits" if possible once this is done.

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  • cgardner42cgardner42 Registered User regular
    This is amazing, really loving it.

  • Carl LevittCarl Levitt Registered User new member
    Didn't James study the classics in university?

  • superwootsuperwoot 6th Annual Triwizard - Slytherin DE Santa barbara, CARegistered User regular
    Awesome series. I hope to see more of it!

    In the strangest of ways...
  • Arsene-LupinArsene-Lupin Registered User regular
    These videos are awesome.

    But they have the unfortunate side-effect of reminding me how terrible Rome 2 is....

    Now I'm sad, Extra Credits. You made me sad.

  • darkhogdarkhog Registered User regular
    Arsene-Lupin, I love these too and love history in general (kinda weird for game developer, I know), but I think EC team should separate Extra History into its own show as this has little to nothing to do with game development.

  • CheeseGod99CheeseGod99 Registered User regular
    These are fascinating. I would love to see this as a spin-off series (because you guys aren't already putting in a ton of work ;)

  • ObstreperousObstreperous Registered User regular
    As much as I love your regular videos, I am even more excited about this! If you ever want to do more history videos, I for one would be more than happy!

  • J. D. MilknutJ. D. Milknut Lord of Chipmunks Portland, ORRegistered User regular
    Awesome! :)

  • Pinky_PowersPinky_Powers Registered User regular
    Bloody fine work, folks! Pinky approves.

    Beer is the perfect lubricant for twisted and vile animal gibberish. I use it myself when the times are ripe and my need great.
  • SebbySebby Registered User regular
    Something stood out to me. During the last section of the episode ; "[...]At first, the Romans didin't fare too bad[...]"

    Makes me wonder if that's what the Carth wanted the roman to feel, so they'd stay, endure attrition, and ensure a powerful flanking manouver, or if they genuinely were doing fine.

    Also, wow. How the hell did they bring elephants through the Alps? That's intense.

  • ThylbanusThylbanus Registered User regular
    Awesome guys. I've studied this stuff for years, but it's always fun to see someone else's take on it. I'm sure there are plenty of us who know this, but is this new for anyone out there? Vote up if this is your first time learning about this!

  • featsdailyfeatsdaily Registered User new member
    Very cool. Interesting change of pace. Can't wait to see what's next.

  • CanisAquilusCanisAquilus Registered User regular

  • DedwrekkaDedwrekka Metal Hell adjacentRegistered User regular
    edited September 2013
    A good visual overview of the battle of Trebia. There's six youtube videos in this series.

    Dedwrekka on
  • DedwrekkaDedwrekka Metal Hell adjacentRegistered User regular
    edited September 2013
    Yes the Second Punic war was where the Roman Republic dies and the empire is born
    You're about a few hundred years off. Officially the Empire didn't begin until Augustus (27 BC). If you're speaking more hyperbolic, in the sense that this was the moment that pushed Rome towards imperium, then it's still a firm "eh, not really". Rome was constantly expanding it's power and had fought multiple battles against hated enemies before. Hannibal gets points for being flashy and the best supplied, but wasn't necessarily the actual worst enemy the Romans faced.

    When the Gauls sacked Rome in 387 BC (over 100 years before the Second Punic War), the Romans were so despondent that they very seriously considered abandoning their entire city. Not only that, but the records from the era before were destroyed, and as such what we have of those records is almost complete myth and revisionist history.

    Just before that, we had the fighting at Veii which was the first time that the Romans decided to field an army year round, and instituted soldier pay. This was important as it led to the formation of professional armies and eventually the mercenary armies that led to Rome's downfall. (just as an aside, the Roman records of the period were steeped in revisionist history and myth, but the Greek records covered this war pretty handily)

    You could claim that this was what started the "cults of personality" in Roma, but they had been there since it's founding. In fact one of the most notable figures (and that everyone has likely seen the results of, even if they haven't heard of him) was Cincinatus. A man so popular that over 2000 years after his death the men who fought under Washington were declaring him "America's Cincinatus", one even naming the city he would later found after this title in honor of Washington (the town was Cincinnati).

    Rome's republic was in a long decline that started at the beginning, and if we were inclined to be pedantic we could even claim that it was inevitable. However that isn't true and only seems so from the backwards view of history we get to take. In reality Rome was constantly faced with threats both to it's sovereignty and to it's form of government, from without as well as within, and it's only through the greatest of luck and misjudgement that the Republic fell at all.

    Dedwrekka on
  • BarthedaBartheda Registered User regular
    This is really cool. Its funny that even though I know that there are these amazing real life stories out there I never look into them. I need to get my ass down the library.

  • BarthedaBartheda Registered User regular
    Actually has anyone got some links for me to read into this kinda stuff please.

  • AshiverAshiver Registered User regular
    I don't understand how the paths could have ever been so small men had to crawl yet they got elephants through. I am certain they got the elephants through, so that leaves me skeptical that the paths could have been that bad at any point.

  • kamppinenkamppinen Registered User new member

    You can always read on the English Wikipedia about this war, it may not all be 100% correct but you'll get the big picture :)
    If you want some books just go down to your local library and ask about some books about the Punic war and I'm sure they can provide you with some.
    I myself would largely recommend: "Hannibal's war. Books twenty-one to thirty"(translated by J.C. Yardley) by the Roman historian "Livy". I have not myself read it yet but I'm absolutely planning on doing it at some point.
    //History student

  • DedwrekkaDedwrekka Metal Hell adjacentRegistered User regular
    It's the difference between getting tens of thousands of men across in order to attack Rome in the winter and getting tens of thousands of men across three years from when you started. There were paths that were big enough for the elephants but you can't march an army that size down one path and expect to get anywhere anytime soon. They took multiple paths with the elephants and supplies taking the largest paths and many of the different divisions in the army trying to find their own path.

  • mblairmblair Registered User regular
    Love this video series! Fun fact from someone who also loves Roman history and has studied the Punic Wars, the Roman historian Livy claims the Cartheginians crossed the Alps by "melting the rocks with vinegar". When his soldiers came to a pass that was blocked Hannibal had them build a massive fire to heat the rock and then pour vinegar on them which would crack the rocks and clear the way. Can't wait to get to Cannae!

  • Drice the PilgrimDrice the Pilgrim Registered User new member
    Every time you stray from talking about video games it goes badly. First religion and now this. Cmon guys.

  • LitleWaffleLitleWaffle Registered User regular
    edited September 2013

    I highly disagree. Both their Religion episodes and what they are currently doing was and is incredibly interesting respectively. Granted, I wasn't watching Extra Credits when they were doing the Religion episodes week by week, and I wasn't around for the discussions that triggered "God Does Not Play Dice", but it was still an interesting topic.

    These guys are really good at making anything engaging to watch and interesting to learn about. They go about it efficiently for rather short episodes yet also spark curiosity in the viewer to research more about it themselves, either to learn more or attempt to disagree. Plus, the pretty pictures don't do any harm to keep a person's attention.

    LitleWaffle on
  • Digital Ninja 3.0Digital Ninja 3.0 Registered User regular
    This is good stuff!

  • MikoditeMikodite Registered User regular
    James was a classics major, wasn't he not? Classics being code for 'Greeco-Roman' if I remember my own school days? So why are there people going on about how wrong this is and how out of their league they have gone?

  • WalsfeoWalsfeo Games & Technology Librarian Georgetown County SCRegistered User regular
    Great episode, even though it falls away from video games. Keep up the amazing work!

    A first person, a second person, and a third person walk into a bar. The Bartender says "Hey, get some perspective."
  • InkiduInkidu Registered User new member
    Trivia, Africanus probably started out as Apricanus (The whole funic-punic thing from the first one). Meaningless trivia! YAY!

    Though I am happy to see someone else picked up on the Afircan war elephants and the AT-ATs from Empire Strikes Back. :)

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