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I miss something vital to be game designer. Could someone help me?
Sarief
Registered User new member
Registered User new member
Hi! I know it's not the right topic for the question but I don't know where else can i ask that, so here goes:
I'm from Ukraine, 19, in future(hope it's near future) I'd like to be game designer. I watch this show(extra credits), create some design document and try designing games, but... i miss something vital.
The worst is - i don't know what that "vital" is...
I just don't know. Maybe that's because of the country i live in... no, there are good game designers here.
So, I miss something vital to be game designer. Could someone help me? Someone knows what that "something" is?
I'm from Ukraine, 19, in future(hope it's near future) I'd like to be game designer. I watch this show(extra credits), create some design document and try designing games, but... i miss something vital.
The worst is - i don't know what that "vital" is...
I just don't know. Maybe that's because of the country i live in... no, there are good game designers here.
So, I miss something vital to be game designer. Could someone help me? Someone knows what that "something" is?
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Without the ability to actually make a game, no one will care about your ideas or ability to design.
Almost all game designers I know (and I know quite a few because I work for a video game studio) have degrees in computer science.
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Find out what's wrong with your design, and improve on it.
Do this over and over, until they start having fun.
And do it relentlessly, like your life depends on it, because if you want to do this for some kind of living, it will.
Yea, writing a design document doesn't mean much of anything. Almost everyone I know, myself included, has an idea in their head for an awesome video game concept. They could even write it out if they wanted. But unless you can code together something that actually does something, you don't have anything. Or art something for someone who codes, if you art.
I can almost guarantee you it's greatly different from what you think it's like.
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You do not need to be a programmer. You do not need to be an artist. You do need to understand the fundamentals of both of these things along with a slew of other skills.
Check out companies that are hiring designers, see what they are looking for and compare that to the skill set that you have. See something missing? Work to fill the gap.
Rather than read about my speculations about what companies want, here is an example from a real job posting looking for a game designer:
What you need to be successful in this role:
Excellent communication skills. You will need to communicate ideas, game vision and product goals across all levels of the company.
Experience in building high quality social games.
Versatility. You have both creative and analytical skills. You are comfortable making judgment calls on what is fun, and can use data to back it up.
Integrity, optimism, common sense, responsibility and most importantly a sense of humor.
Be the voice of the end user. Understand the needs and wants of your target audience.
Resourcefulness. You can find creative solutions to any problem you face.
A passion and drive to create amazing games!
Hope that helps!
Beyond that there's two real routes to getting into a game design team. 1) is art. 2) is programming.
For 1 you better be a damn good artist (either concept art, 3d models, something...). I don't know the proper path for this.
For 2 the easiest way is to do a 4 year Computer Science program at an accredited/reputable university. Focus on taking courses relevant to game creation (e.g. computer graphics). Work on your own portfolio of games. Worst case scenario you should leave with a marketable programming skillset.
Do not go to any school or program that gears itself for "game design" unless you're certain that the graduates get jobs.
This is a fucking amazing good article although a little too pessimistic, I think the main points are largely true.
Yes, some game designers were once programmers or artists, but not all of them. It is not the only way to get in. Again look at that real life job posting that I quoted, that is what the company is actively looking for in a game designer right now ^_^
Unless someone from these forums can vouch for that posting being the exception to the rule, I would say keep your ideas going, look into getting into the industry at an entry level in a position that interests you and plays to your strengths, and keep working on things on your own. Don't let not having art or programming skills stop you. That is ridiculous. Make a paper prototype, build a GDD, write a user story, and do your best to find Game Jams.
What you do need to have, though, is some sort of solid technical skill in addition to all the designer-focused skillsets. That can be art, animation, level design, QA, programming, whatever. A technical skill will allow you to comfortably fit into a team (especially for something like a game jam) and be able to work on the actual production as well as the design.
That posting you quoted is all well and good, but that little blurb isn't the whole story. No studio is going to hire someone off the street if that person has no real skills outside of 'being passionate about game creation.' OP needs to be told that there's a real skillset he needs if he is serious about this.
Getting in a the indie game level will make this even more obvious - if your team is 3 people, all of those people need real skills that can be used in the production of a game.
In this particular case, ideas are cheap and will get you nowhere in the real world.
Gal, could you post the link to that real job post?
I'd be curious to see it, and if I'm wrong it'd be super helpful to the OP
That's a good place to start, prior to gaining any programming/art skills, you can create a board game prototype and start building your skills in thinking of game loops and features that will keep users interested.
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If you want to get better at actually designing games, make games. You do not need any technical knowledge to make the above. Make sure you do not explain to people how to play verbally but write a manual. Teaching players how to play a game correctly through text alone is one of the most important things you can practice.
Even if you want to make video games, making non-electronic games is a crucial step. Working on a video game - a product that requires multiple people to work on it for months to produce something that you can even begin to test - as your first project is not a very good idea unless what you want to practice is programming and modeling. Once you have made a game that is honestly as good as the competition, you will not only have some actual design experience but also a design-focused "portfolio" you can show to potential employers.
Edit: Also, thread, I'd appreciate it if you'd stop implying the process of designing a game consists of telling people about your super special awesome ideas (which are totally as awesome as you think they are). It is a separate discipline, both art and science, that requires a great deal of skill.
I still want to stress that while programming and art skills are a plus, and may get you a job over an applicant without those skills, they should not be tossed around as a requirement. It just isn't true. Should you learn about them if you can or if you find a strength there? Absolutely! Having an art background could help you give great feedback on user interface which can greatly inform the user experience. Having a programming background can help you find a way to get a feature in within scope where others see it as something out of reach.
Can you find a job as a game designer without those skills? Yes. Because there are other skills, arguably more core to your job, that a Game Designer requires that the aforementioned positions will not necessarily prepare you for.
I disagree. Ideas are not cheap, a well programmed game with fantastic art that is based on a terrible idea will not sell. Well rounded, scoped, fun ideas are not cheap, they are a paramount ingredient to success.
OP has been told that there is a real skill set he needs, but he has been erroneously told that that skill set falls only within the parameters of art or programming. Story telling, game writing, user experience flow, game economy, etc. These are the things you will fall on as a Game Designer and these are the skills he needs, the prior job experience that may help him get the position and the skills that he needs are different. You can apply a few things from art or programming but they are not required.
I guess what I want to stress is that there are industry prerequisites for the position, those prerequisites can vary greatly by studio, project, etc.
Totally. Here it is. It is for a company called Arkadium and as a bonus they have jobs in the Ukraine! Nothing for design at the moment but there is a QA position there. They also offer internships, including game design internships at the New York office, I would keep an eye on the Ukraine opportunities, OP. ^_^
This is what I am talking about. Yes, you have to come from somewhere. Unless you are striking out on your own with a group of people that fill in for production, art, programming, etc, then your first job in the industry will probably not be as a designer. Having a background in an aspect of development prior to landing a design gig is a common prerequisite. At the very least knowing more about the dev process will help you become a better designer.
I would appreciate it if people would stop telling others what they can and can't post in this thread. This is not a request.
Also, in all the years my husband and I have looked for jobs, the one thing I have learned is that just because people have an opening doesn't mean they know how to communicate their needs in a job posting. I can almost guarantee that whoever actually does the hiring at that company is sitting around scratching his head and wondering why he can't find any talent. One or ten or a hundred postings announcing that all a company wants is a plucky go-getter means nothing until they've actually hired someone who doesn't know how to do anything else.
If you want a job with no skills you have to apply for entry-level everything until you find someone willing to take a chance on someone with no skills, and then you take what you can get until you do have skills. That is nearly universal and you will find it in almost any field.
I will say this, someone who's a programmer themselves, making a game requires time. A lot of time. It also requires money, lots of money.
Why? You've got to pay people in fields you don't have skills in. While I may be a programmer, I am definitely not an artist/modeler or musician. To get art for a pretty run of the mill game, I'm probably looking to plop down almost 10-20 grand. Music and sound? Probably around the same. Okay, if I have no programming experience? That's probably going to be 50-100 grand (depending on how complex and how quickly you want this).
Ask yourself, do you have $150,000 laying about to make a game? No? Okay, well, that's why people tell you to learn one of those skills. Picking up Unity because it's premade also carries its own requirements (royalties) and you still need to be a programmer to some degree (logic and all that). And about the only engine I know of where you don't really need programming skills is RPG Maker.
Okay so you have ideas, right? How do you get your ideas across? You think someone is going to bankroll an entry level person into an unknown game project? Hahaha. No they won't. You need to start on the ground floor. You look at a company like Blizzard. Chris Metzen is one of their pretty big name game designers. Guess where he started? Art and animation.
So you have two options here:
- learn an appropriate skill and work in the gaming field
- make your own game
Also, there's a reason I didn't pick the first one. It sucks, the hours suck, and it will kill your soul. Working in the gaming industry is some of the worst hours, pay, and benefits because everyone wants to do it.
Time yes, money, no. It only costs money to make a game that's commercial quality in appearance. Making a freeware game or a game for a portfolio, does not require money. You can just use free assets, or make your own ugly assets.
Paying money for assets for a non-commercial game is like paying money to vanity publish a novel. It does not make you look more professional.
Unity doesn't have royalties. You pay a steep fee ($1500) for the pro version, but no hobbyist needs to do that.
RPGMaker is a great choice for the beginner in making games. You can get a feel for making games without having to learn anything difficult. I'd recommend Adventure Game Studio for the same reason.
Unless OP is planning on seriously monetizing though, I think either would be a pretty good option to just get the handle on "creating/designing a game". Don't need to publicly release it and hope for income.
Game designer is a hard position to get into, with no standard path of entry. I know a few game designers, and they all got into the trade in different ways. It sounds like it'd be easier to become a designer than an artist, producer, or programmer because there are no specific skills, but there are so many people who want to do it, it is hard.
In game development, designers are massively outnumbered by artists and programmers. If you can at all be an artist or a programmer, that is the place to start. You can move sideways into design from there. (though you may not want to, as designers tend to earn less.)
Even Shigeru Miyamoto was an artist before becoming the revered legend he is today. You have to bring something to the table besides ideas.
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The term "idea guy" was invented for people who believe that they can contribute to a studio with no qualifications. It is being severely misused.
Edit: There are a lot of trading card games. Magic: The Gathering remains the market leader. You could argue that there are many reasons for this, but if you ask me, I will answer that this is because each set of Magic is developed and playtested over a period of 2 years. The amount of work a designer does depends on the studio.
Well I'm not arguing that game designers are useless. On the contrary, in a large game studio they play a very important role of making sure games are balanced, are heading in the right direction during production, iron out problems post production, etc. etc.
However, you don't just start being a game designer. A game designer makes 0 sense when you're not working for a sizeable game studio and are just starting out. Which is why all the advice to the OP is "make a game, any way you can." Because that's how you learn all the aspects of making a game (something that a game designer absolutely needs to know), and you can actually have something to show when you're interviewing for a real game studio.
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In fact, Derrik Paxton, the Fall of Heaven guy mentioned, spent several years of a his life as a project manager before being hired by a game studio as their lead game designer. You can bet your ass that his project management skills were a big reason for his success.
Note that project management is a reasonably common, well paying career, so if you don't end up in a game studio, your skills are transferable.
If you want to get good at designing games non-electronic games are by far the superior learning platform. They allow you to get right to work without spending time on other crafts. You can rapidly iterate and drastically change the game without having to rework your engine, assets, and so on. If you need to present your work to a company you can hire an artist to replace your placeholders at a significantly cheaper cost.
from what i learned here, and searched elsewhere, i pointed out this:
1) I missed the point that I'm far away from where I want to be. Game industry has developed so much that I didn't even think of, until it was pointed out for me. For example, why I need math in my studies of programming. And that all that I'm learning is just so small in comparison. It frightens and excites me...
2) To become better at creating games I have to create them. Simple, really. Better to do non-electronic, this way i won't be bugged by the technical aspects and will do what I wanted to do from the start.
3) I can't be lazzy. I know nearly not enough. Study, study and study. And I must learn both - programming AND art(even for a bit).
And the thing I missed turned out to be real simple:
I didn't know what I was seeing. The big picture. I didn't know that games used the technologies that are superior to everything in todays world. What I must learn or what I must know. From where I was there was no way for me to learn those things. And there was only one true way to do that - know, what I'm searching for. Asking the right questions. Those that know - can't think that someone don't know about that. Those that don't know - can't even guess about what they should ask.
Thank you all for your answers. They really helped. I don't say that I will become game designer in future for I am no prophet but I hope I'm on the right path.