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Help with managing a gaming guild
Question
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
I have been running a guild in a MMORPG for nearly a full year now.
We never seemed to have a lot of players...ive tried several avenues of recruitment, with little success. The largest guilds on the server seem to get their numbers by standing around in town in large numbers so that people flock to them. It gets kind of lonely sometimes, especially when you dont have enough people to run end game raids.
Anyway on to the problem : The guild has suffered 3 major setbacks in it's history and i'm wondering if it's something i'm doing or just insanely unlucky.
Problem 1 : During a busy uni semester, i took a break from the game. I was still available on steam for the rest of the guild to contact, and when i left everyone was raiding and doing fine. I didn't anticipate any problems. I checked in several times on them and they all told me things were fine and going well.
Holidays came around, i started playing again, and to my complete surprise, not only was most of the guild inactive and missing, but several had left to join other guilds, complaining that the guild was inactive. My second in command had simply stopped caring about the guild, became an elitist that kept complaining the guild members didn't do enough DPS or weren't efficient enough (same guy who i founded the guild with and was a really laidback guy), and simply refused to play with the guild, preferring to play with another guild who were much better geared. He left the guild shortly after i came back, citing insufficient DPS.
And the entire time, nobody had said a single thing to me and simply insisted everything was fine when i asked. WTF? Apparently all of this started shortly after i took a break for uni.
Problem 2 : After the above happened, it took quite a while to rebuild the guild. One guy ended up helping a lot with recruitment and stuff in general, and i promoted him to officer (let's call him Cats). Everything was going fine, people were getting geared up for end game, and i was looking forward to doing end game raids as a guild.
Then suddenly Cats decided to pull a coup. Unknown to me, he had been giving free stuff in secret to most of the guild members. One day he gave part of a set to a guild member (Let's call him Mike) in public, making sure i was there to see it. I had the set on one of my alts, and suggested that Mike talk to some people we knew who might have the mats to craft the remaining set pieces. Cats denounced me in public, called me selfish for not giving my set away to Mike, accused me of using the guild to enrich myself, etc, etc. He announced that he was going to leave the guild and bring anyone who wanted to follow him.
Right after this he initiated private chats with all the guild members online at the time where he basically bad mouthed me and tried to persuade the rest of the guild to follow him to the guild he was going to make. I found out about this later when one of the guild members told me about it.
We debated his reasons for leaving in guild chat. This is when he revealed that he had been giving free stuff to guild members in secret, said i never helped to get people geared up and that he was tired of giving free stuff to the rest of the guild when i wasn't doing the same. I pointed out that nobody had asked me for help, and he was basically complaining that he wasn't being appreciated for the stuff he was doing in secret. The debate eventually died down when Cats ended by saying that he had "some incompatible issues" with me and left. Another guy (Let's call him Nick) also quit, because i hadn't been giving free stuff like what Cats did.
I talked to the other guild members, but most of them refused to talk about it. The ones that were willing to talk about it were "coincidentally", the ones that didn't get free stuff from Cats.
Very next night, the two guys who quit shows up in our chat asking to raid with us. Was very tempted to say no, but i knew Cats was popular because he had been giving free stuff to people and praising them. And i was trying not to keep a grudge and have things move on. So over the next few days, we were raiding together, everything felt a bit strained but still somewhat normal, then one day i wake up to find that three people had quit the guild and joined Cat's guild without saying anything.
Two of them (one of whom was Mike) quit because they got free stuff from Cats and felt this is what they needed to do to "pay him back". One guy said he was only joining temporarily to help Cats level his guild (he never came back). They all insisted that there was "no difference" and that we could all keep raiding together.
The next day, Cats arranges things so that he raids with his guild + most of my guild in secret. I find out about this when i try to put together a raid group with the remaining guild members only to be told that they were already raiding with Cats. That's when it became obvious that his aim was to grab as many members from my guild as possible so that he could have his old raid group without me included. A mutual friend of ours tries to help out, and Cats promises him that he wouldn't steal any members from my guild.
Right after he says that, he goes to another of my guild members and keeps hinting that he should totally join his guild to help out. Said guild member tells me he is going to join Cat's guild to "help out" because "he gave me a lot of free stuff before and Cats says that he needs my help".
I try to put together another raid group with people from other guilds, Cats keeps bugging them to raid with him, and not me. One guy (introduced to me by a friend) ends up saying yes, and admits he doesn't care what Cats does to my guild as long as it doesn't affect him. During this time Cats keeps talking to the rest of my guild in pivate, flattering them, saying things like "We are too weak, we need your help in these raids!", using all kinds of tactics to try and get them to join his guild. Another guy quits saying that the guild doesn't have enough DPS now that most of the guild is with Cats. Everytime Cats sees one of our guild members in town, he would run over, strike up a conversation and try to persuade them to join his guild. He managed to convince several newbies to join his guild this way, apparently they had been told that our guild was dead and his guild was the new guild.
Nick messaged me one day to gloat about how successful he and Cats were. Apparently his motivation for helping Cats was that i hadn't given him a rare drop, which i had clearly said i wasn't giving him because he had refused to sell a rare crafting mat to me (which would have allowed me to make the best weapon for my class). He denied this incident ever occured and insisted i had been out to get him for no reason.
Problem 3 : After rebuilding the guild for the second time (although not to our previous numbers), we had managed to start raiding again. Two of our newest members are pretty active and seem enthusiastic about the game. I'm pretty busy with uni, so one of them (Ted) offers to help organize raids. I say sure. I'm still ingame at this point (although not playing much), trying to maintain a visible prescence so that problem 1 does not happen again. I'm talking to a guild member one day when he mentions that Ted had kicked one of the other members from the raid group because he had missed the raids a few times due to IRL reasons. Plus Ted was apparently running the raids hardcore WOW style, keeping track of deaths and bitching at people when they died. Couple of other guild members said they weren't very comfortable with what Ted was doing and that they thought the raids were too serious now.
I talk to Ted in private, just to let him know that some of the guild wasn't very comfortable with what was going on and suggested he relaxed a bit. I set aside time from my uni schedule and organized a guild raid the next night, just to smooth things over and try and make everyone happy.
Right before the raid starts, Ted quits complaining that we weren't hardcore enough and that i wasn't playing enough (he compared me to a WOW hardcore GM whom he liked). Ted's BFF quits too (no surprise there, this guy had previously admitted to me that he only did things to benefit himself and had never helped the guild). I find out at this time that Ted had been talking to someone in Cats' guild and had been promised that Cats' guild was hardcore and perfect for him.
And now we are back in another slump, with a handful of actives and two others who quit because they had gotten bored with the game. Honestly at this point i'm getting tired of building up the guild only to have it come crashing down around me repeatedly, and with Cats repeatedly targetting our guild members. It's also getting tiring helping people get geared up for end game only to have them get bored and quit shortly after. Was there anything i could have done to prevent all this? What should i do in the future?
We never seemed to have a lot of players...ive tried several avenues of recruitment, with little success. The largest guilds on the server seem to get their numbers by standing around in town in large numbers so that people flock to them. It gets kind of lonely sometimes, especially when you dont have enough people to run end game raids.
Anyway on to the problem : The guild has suffered 3 major setbacks in it's history and i'm wondering if it's something i'm doing or just insanely unlucky.
Problem 1 : During a busy uni semester, i took a break from the game. I was still available on steam for the rest of the guild to contact, and when i left everyone was raiding and doing fine. I didn't anticipate any problems. I checked in several times on them and they all told me things were fine and going well.
Holidays came around, i started playing again, and to my complete surprise, not only was most of the guild inactive and missing, but several had left to join other guilds, complaining that the guild was inactive. My second in command had simply stopped caring about the guild, became an elitist that kept complaining the guild members didn't do enough DPS or weren't efficient enough (same guy who i founded the guild with and was a really laidback guy), and simply refused to play with the guild, preferring to play with another guild who were much better geared. He left the guild shortly after i came back, citing insufficient DPS.
And the entire time, nobody had said a single thing to me and simply insisted everything was fine when i asked. WTF? Apparently all of this started shortly after i took a break for uni.
Problem 2 : After the above happened, it took quite a while to rebuild the guild. One guy ended up helping a lot with recruitment and stuff in general, and i promoted him to officer (let's call him Cats). Everything was going fine, people were getting geared up for end game, and i was looking forward to doing end game raids as a guild.
Then suddenly Cats decided to pull a coup. Unknown to me, he had been giving free stuff in secret to most of the guild members. One day he gave part of a set to a guild member (Let's call him Mike) in public, making sure i was there to see it. I had the set on one of my alts, and suggested that Mike talk to some people we knew who might have the mats to craft the remaining set pieces. Cats denounced me in public, called me selfish for not giving my set away to Mike, accused me of using the guild to enrich myself, etc, etc. He announced that he was going to leave the guild and bring anyone who wanted to follow him.
Right after this he initiated private chats with all the guild members online at the time where he basically bad mouthed me and tried to persuade the rest of the guild to follow him to the guild he was going to make. I found out about this later when one of the guild members told me about it.
We debated his reasons for leaving in guild chat. This is when he revealed that he had been giving free stuff to guild members in secret, said i never helped to get people geared up and that he was tired of giving free stuff to the rest of the guild when i wasn't doing the same. I pointed out that nobody had asked me for help, and he was basically complaining that he wasn't being appreciated for the stuff he was doing in secret. The debate eventually died down when Cats ended by saying that he had "some incompatible issues" with me and left. Another guy (Let's call him Nick) also quit, because i hadn't been giving free stuff like what Cats did.
I talked to the other guild members, but most of them refused to talk about it. The ones that were willing to talk about it were "coincidentally", the ones that didn't get free stuff from Cats.
Very next night, the two guys who quit shows up in our chat asking to raid with us. Was very tempted to say no, but i knew Cats was popular because he had been giving free stuff to people and praising them. And i was trying not to keep a grudge and have things move on. So over the next few days, we were raiding together, everything felt a bit strained but still somewhat normal, then one day i wake up to find that three people had quit the guild and joined Cat's guild without saying anything.
Two of them (one of whom was Mike) quit because they got free stuff from Cats and felt this is what they needed to do to "pay him back". One guy said he was only joining temporarily to help Cats level his guild (he never came back). They all insisted that there was "no difference" and that we could all keep raiding together.
The next day, Cats arranges things so that he raids with his guild + most of my guild in secret. I find out about this when i try to put together a raid group with the remaining guild members only to be told that they were already raiding with Cats. That's when it became obvious that his aim was to grab as many members from my guild as possible so that he could have his old raid group without me included. A mutual friend of ours tries to help out, and Cats promises him that he wouldn't steal any members from my guild.
Right after he says that, he goes to another of my guild members and keeps hinting that he should totally join his guild to help out. Said guild member tells me he is going to join Cat's guild to "help out" because "he gave me a lot of free stuff before and Cats says that he needs my help".
I try to put together another raid group with people from other guilds, Cats keeps bugging them to raid with him, and not me. One guy (introduced to me by a friend) ends up saying yes, and admits he doesn't care what Cats does to my guild as long as it doesn't affect him. During this time Cats keeps talking to the rest of my guild in pivate, flattering them, saying things like "We are too weak, we need your help in these raids!", using all kinds of tactics to try and get them to join his guild. Another guy quits saying that the guild doesn't have enough DPS now that most of the guild is with Cats. Everytime Cats sees one of our guild members in town, he would run over, strike up a conversation and try to persuade them to join his guild. He managed to convince several newbies to join his guild this way, apparently they had been told that our guild was dead and his guild was the new guild.
Nick messaged me one day to gloat about how successful he and Cats were. Apparently his motivation for helping Cats was that i hadn't given him a rare drop, which i had clearly said i wasn't giving him because he had refused to sell a rare crafting mat to me (which would have allowed me to make the best weapon for my class). He denied this incident ever occured and insisted i had been out to get him for no reason.
Problem 3 : After rebuilding the guild for the second time (although not to our previous numbers), we had managed to start raiding again. Two of our newest members are pretty active and seem enthusiastic about the game. I'm pretty busy with uni, so one of them (Ted) offers to help organize raids. I say sure. I'm still ingame at this point (although not playing much), trying to maintain a visible prescence so that problem 1 does not happen again. I'm talking to a guild member one day when he mentions that Ted had kicked one of the other members from the raid group because he had missed the raids a few times due to IRL reasons. Plus Ted was apparently running the raids hardcore WOW style, keeping track of deaths and bitching at people when they died. Couple of other guild members said they weren't very comfortable with what Ted was doing and that they thought the raids were too serious now.
I talk to Ted in private, just to let him know that some of the guild wasn't very comfortable with what was going on and suggested he relaxed a bit. I set aside time from my uni schedule and organized a guild raid the next night, just to smooth things over and try and make everyone happy.
Right before the raid starts, Ted quits complaining that we weren't hardcore enough and that i wasn't playing enough (he compared me to a WOW hardcore GM whom he liked). Ted's BFF quits too (no surprise there, this guy had previously admitted to me that he only did things to benefit himself and had never helped the guild). I find out at this time that Ted had been talking to someone in Cats' guild and had been promised that Cats' guild was hardcore and perfect for him.
And now we are back in another slump, with a handful of actives and two others who quit because they had gotten bored with the game. Honestly at this point i'm getting tired of building up the guild only to have it come crashing down around me repeatedly, and with Cats repeatedly targetting our guild members. It's also getting tiring helping people get geared up for end game only to have them get bored and quit shortly after. Was there anything i could have done to prevent all this? What should i do in the future?
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This is meant to be something you do for fun. Not a job.
So I think that maybe you need to change your strategy up a bit. I'd flat-out stop raiding with anyone who has ties to the other guy, and possibly even gkick them, opting to start over instead. Sever your guild's ties with the dude, he's a leech; he's waiting to see who joins you and then poaches the people who don't suck. The next stage of recruiting should emphasize that fun, friends, and 'casual endgame'. Never promise anyone more than you plan to give them with regard to content.
Honestly though, and this is going to sound harsh: You are a student. What's more, you are a student FIRST, and that is absolutely as it should be and I applaud you. But it also means that if you can't be REALLY hands-on, you probably shouldn't be the guildmaster of an endgame guild because you just can't keep tabs on this stuff like you will need to, as you've seen several times in the past now. I think that you should, as a guild if possible, discuss who has been there a while, has been loyal, would be good for the job and the guild, and who wants the job. Then hand him the reins, and I don't mean as an officer. Appoint him (or her) new GM, and just be an officer or guild member while you finish school. If you stick around while you're in school and continue to be good at the game and care for the guild, maybe you'll get the position back when the other guy steps down. Don't count on it though. Make this someone else's problem while you focus on your life, and just enjoy playing a game with your friends.
anyway most of these problems can be solved by not recruiting assholes, and/or keeping them in trial positions until it's clear that they aren't
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
It was clear from the very beginning that we were a casual guild and Ted never told us he was looking for a hardcore guild to do it like a hardcore WOW guild would do. So this all came as a surprise to us.
Cats was in the guild for several months and was very helpful before pulling the stunt he did. I guess it just goes to show that some people are very good at concealing their intentions.
I started this guild to get a casual group of friends together to enjoy the game with. At the beginning, most of the other guilds were large because they stood in town begging people to join them, and were full of assholes who looked down on you if you didnt have their p2win gear. Right now im still the most active player in the guild left left...what with others losing interest and not playing much anymore.
It's a lot of work, requires daily attention, and it's why you can't just ask someone if everything's okay sometimes via some chat client. You should have stepped down in the first place, and if you are still in school you should be doing so now. You simply do not have the time to devote that a growing guild requires. This is going to keep making you sad as long as you don't have the time to dedicate to it that you want to see from your members, and frankly, school is like a million times more important.
My method for reducing drama was A) You get a warning for behavior
There was a point right after naxx in wow where my guild went from 50 some odd people to 6.
Some years from now, no one is going to care that you pulled this guild out of the fire and made it awesome, including you. However, they and you will care that you did well at Uni. That's where your focus should be right now.
So in answer to your question, what did you do wrong? you let other people who you have no control over and don't really know, be in charge of your guild. Unsurprisingly, they did things that you disagree with and showed that they don't care about you.. a person they also don't know or care about.
It sucks when you get poached from, but in MMOs as in life people are going to go to the best situation for them and it's not really something that's fair to hold a grudge over.
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
I was an absolute jerk when I played WoW, because I had to be to keep everyone focused and running well as a team in our serious guild.
It's just not worth it. My recommendation to you is to find another guild where the philosophy is similar to the one you are running now, and just join as a normal member.
The second you have to step away from the guild, realize that you are rightfully passing over guild leadership to someone else. That shit is a lot of work, and the person doing all the guild managing while you're gone is the real guild leader anyway.
If the guild falls apart, it's because there's no one there unifying it into something.
Also, the drama of hardcore-drama guilds isn't worth it and is something college students do to replace some things that are absent from their meat space social lives.
Cats didnt do his stuff when i was on break, he just did it after i came back from the break and had rebuilt the guild. He was giving them free stuff in secret, and nobody told me they were getting free stuff from him. Then he started drama and kept telling people they should join him to "help" him out. And because they got free stuff from him, they felt they were obligated to do so. During this period i was really active because it was the holidays and i was organizing all the raids and stuff. But people cared more about the free stuff they got than the guild.
The GM should be organizing stuff i agree...but i dont see why nobody else can do it if they wanted to. All it takes is a simple text message "hey wanna do X?". But ive seen some people that are simply incapable of doing so...they are so passive they will never ever ask anyone if they want to go do something and simply wait to be called on. Its really weird IMHO. Appaently there was one guy who really wanted to run a certain battle...he never told a single person about it and was really pissed that nobody volunteered out of the blue to help him. He wouldn't explain to me why he didnt tell people about it and just kept nursing this grudge forever.
How do people juggle jobs and being a GM then?
This is the oldest active guild on the server now and ive seen a lot of guilds just collapse the moment the GM left. Its kind of dissapointing that so few people are willing to take over and keep an already established guild running, they just want to join another guild and let someone else do all the work. I've seen the same player attempt to start what he calls the "most elite guild on the server" twice. Both times he ran it for a few weeks tops and then gave up and joined the largest guild he could find. I don't think its difficult to keep a guild running as long as you have good people in the guild. Ive seen the most laidback GMs keep guilds going for months...all they did was organize raids for themselves and his closest friends, and leave everyone else to fend for themselves. But they never got this massive drama that i keep getting for some reason.
I also don't pay money to do my job. And if I start performing lousy at my job for a week it doesn't affect me for the rest of my life.
You're building up this virtual thing to mean more than it actually does. It's a game. What's going to happen when the game stops or people get sick of it? You need to ask yourself, "What does the guild mean to me?"
Is it replacing your physical social life?
Is it something to kill time?
What is it really?
Are you really made at people? Feel betrayed? Why? Is it really important to feel the way you do, or are you over reacting because you have invested a lot of time?
I went through a lot of the same things you did. The biggest thing for me was I needed to realize me stopping doing what I'm doing doesn't mean anything. I wasn't betraying anyone, I was doing what was right for me. People will hold grudges for the most stupid of reasons, it's best to call them on it and move on if they won't be amicable.
I've seen people hold grudges because someone used more bacon bits on their salad than they think was reasonable. I've seen people hold grudges because of the way someone fucking breathes. It's likely not as personable as you think, something angered the other person and they built it up in their head. Talk to the people if you want to talk. Make amends, and don't take things too personal. It's a game. If you don't like it, move on. If you want to still be a GM? Well more power to you, but you'll need to deal with these problems eventually.
I don't really have hard answers for you because each situation is different, but, honestly, my advice? Move on, focus on school and life, and if there's time left over, play your video game for fun and how you want it to be fun. Don't try to make it fun for others, make it fun for you.
Just, now you're essentially saying that these people are children because they didn't want to be bothered with keeping tabs on your guild for you, nor get involved in a really weird conflict because somebody gave them some pants or whatever.
I have to be honest with you here, your attitude about this is really weird. I also have to be honest that the best GM I ever had DID juggle it with university. He was super available by in-game mail, tanked for the weekly raid when he could (although toward the end he did a lot more arenas and stuff because he enjoyed pvp more), and handled conflicts between members, but more than any of those things he put himself above the drama people generated rather than getting involved in it. If somebody said something about him, who cares, it wasn't worth getting mad about things people said in a video game. He was always the last person to be geared, letting everyone else get what they needed first. He ran a huge guild that only grew under him and came to be one of the best on the server. He had like 10 officers who were very loyal. He was a pretty fantastic leader, and it was all in his attitude.
So much of what you are describing is mind-blowingly petty, and I am not talking about the other people involved, I'm talking about your handling of it. If you want a laid-back, friendly, active environment, you have to create it, and you don't do that by being absent for long periods, chasing down every last item someone gave away or responding bitterly to people who want more than your guild can give them.
I guess I'm not sure what you're looking to hear anymore. I thought you wanted advice on how to do better by yourself and your guild. If you just want to talk about how everyone else is awful and is not you, it's them, I don't think you're going to get very much out of this exercise.
That said -- does your guild have a website? A voice chat server? A formal application process? An event calendar? A set of rules for behavior posted in a conspicuous location? A standardized protocol for distributing raid loot? A formal process for adjudication of disputes? All of these items are effective drama-reduction tools. How are you recruiting - through forums or spamming public chat in town? You're going to attract a different type of player from each method.
And how are you supposed to know? In the case of Ted, there was zero indication that he wanted a hardcore guild. We had been talking for two months, but he never let any hint of it drop.
Good points. I guess i was dissapointed that the people i had helped so much threw away our friendship in the blink of an eye. I treated them as a friend, they treated me as a stepping stone. If they wanted to do that, they should have made it clear from the very beginning.
good guilds that last a long time and do great things start as an association of likeminded people, friends even
your guild sounds like it's just dudes who wanted to raid and needed a place to raid
the reason your guild sucks and it's a pain in the ass to manage is because the very foundations of it are not sound
it sounds like your entire guild falls apart and then you zerg recruit people, and then the power vacuum of you or your lieutenants being busy causes strife and the whole thing falls apart
to which my reply is "no shit"
we also talk about other random shit and clown upon each other
I don't think you are understanding what i wrote.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with giving people free stuff. But giving people free stuff in secret so that later on you can complain "Oh the GM didn't do what i did, he's a terrible person!"? How would you feel if one of your friends called you right now to complain that he has been giving one of your mutual friends a lot of free stuff in secret and YOU never did the same thing so you are a terrible friend? And now he's going to stop being your friend, and later on your mutual friend calls to tell you "sorry man, i got a lot of free stuff from Jack, and he wants me with him, and not you.".
Those are good ideas. But it is very clear from the outset that our guild is a casual guild. We have never made any claim for elitism or anything like that, and i've always said that we were a casual guild. I don't know why hardcore players ended up joining only to complain later that surprise surprise, it's not a hardcore guild. I think Ted was trying to turn it into one, but when that failed he bailed. I know some people joined just to get access to raids and then jumped ship the moment they got a better offer, but i can't think of anything that would allow me to spot these people. It's not like they are going to say "yea i will totally dump this guild if someone gave me free stuff right now."
We recruit through steam forums and word of mouth usually, plus a few from the game's auto invite feature (new players can be automatically invited to join a guild). Trying to recruit people in town generally did not work out...all of those people got bored and quit very quickly, plus you would be surprised at the amount of people who no habla ingless.
We are (or rather, were) very active on steam, not just ingame. The trend i'm noticing though is that people would rather create drama than attempt to resolve a dispute privately. I've suggested to some people that they take it up with the person they have an issue with first...this never gets done. And most of the time, people won't talk to me about anything either...even when i've made it clear that they can always do that if they have a problem with anything. It's apparently easier to avoid dealing with a problem than it is to work to fix it.
Maybe writing it down as a official "rule" would help....
The bolded spot is why you need to care less. If you're running a casual laid back guild, who cares if people come and go? Maybe they thought they wanted to be casual but later on changed their mind? Why waste your time being bothered by people leaving?
I get that. I really do. This is something to learn in your physical life too. If you help people or give gifts, never expect reciprocation. Do it because you genuinely want to do it, and you're happy to do it. Or else you get into the situation where you think everyone owes you something because you did something for them. Then you get disappointed, then upset, then angry.
For instance, I don't help people in H&A because I expect to be helped or owed something. I just like to help.
Truth is they didn't throw away the friendship so much as change because you were unavailable to talk with about the change. You'd probably find those same friends would be willing to still be your friend, but the circumstances of being casual in the game they play will not be part of it.
It doesn't matter if he said you're a terrible GM because you didn't give them free stuff. That's the point. The point is that you responded to pettiness with escalated pettinessinstead of letting it go. If there was a trap there you swan-dived right into it by getting mad and badgering people guilty only of getting some free stuff.
Why should they care about the guild? What is the guild doing for them. The dude they left with gave them loot and organized raids. What were you and the guild doing to retain membership? Everything you've said really makes it sound like you aren't effectively motivating your team or organizing your guild. Perhaps you should pick up a book on management (I recommend the first 90 days) and just start over in your head.
Also, being a GM sucks balls. You're herding cats and children for no thanks or compensation.
FUCK
THAT
SHIT
Even in real life it is difficult to find this from other people, in a video game where there is total anonymity and no social repercussions. I think you are making a huge assumption that these random people that you invited to your guild, and then spent time playing with would be loyal to you.
you keep going back to this guy giving away free stuff "in secret" I don't understand what that means? Are you saying that he gave stuff away without giving you an itemized list of what he gave and to whom? I give stuff away to my fellow guildies all the time, and i don't tell the guild leader, or anyone.. is that something i am doing in secret? was there a rule that he had to be more public about it?
Also, its important to know that most people in life are followers. They do not want to raise their hand and ask for anything. They would much rater sit back and wait to be invited and told what is going to happen, and get mad when what they want does not happen. This is true in all things, games, families, government and work. These people will follow the person that is going to give them the most stuff for the least work. This is highlighted in your game because the act of leaving your guild and going to another is easy. In real life, switching jobs or moving to a new apartment is difficult and time consuming, so those people sit and stew. you can bet they would be just as capricious if it were as easy to switch jobs in RL.
You should write down as many official rules as you can think of. Honestly the biggest problem I've seen in gaming guilds, other than severe personality mismatch, is a difference in expectations among the leaders and membership. People join up expecting one thing because nobody told them differently, it turns out to be something else, they get disappointed/frustrated and tensions start to build. You need to get out in front of that and get everybody on the same page, in your recruitment language and elsewhere. If you don't want hardcore elitist pricks in your guild, make it known that they're not welcome so they won't ever apply in the first place.
If you want to do organized raiding (albeit in a casual manner), and your game doesn't have embedded scheduling tools, I highly recommend you get a website set up on guildlaunch or elsewhere. List your values. If "real life comes first" (as it should... but doesn't always)... say so. Organize. Plan the best nights to get people on and grouped up, and set up weekly recurring events. Start a forum, post about whatever, get to know your guildies in a separate context from the game. Don't just invite anybody who bumps your recruitment thread or sends you a tell. Direct potential recruits to the website so they can read and agree to the rules and standards of behavior you want to encourage. If you write out your guild charter clearly enough, they'll get a good enough idea of what you're about to decide whether you'll be a good match for them. If that's too much work for them, then fuck em, you don't want them anyway.
Don't be afraid to boot people who aren't living up to the guild's standards, either. They read the rules, they agreed to the rules, now they're breaking the rules. One warning, then sayonara. I know you don't want to drop your membership but a small group of people who get along is worth more than a hundred troublemaking douchebags.
Also, you need to take a look at yourself and what sort of attitudes and behaviors you're encouraging and/or expecting in others. There have been a couple of red flags in your posts that jumped out at me, such as when you denied Nick some loot because he refused to sell you some drop. That's the kind of thing that would make me wary about the guild leadership. You're a guild leader, so you need to make sure that your members don't see you as abusing your authority. You need to think about how every decision can be viewed from the other side of the curtain.
Well, the game is called Rift
Firstly, you didnt give it enough attention and the person you dumped the responsibility on decided he was tired of being second to a ghost leader.
Second, he sounds like he wanted a more hardcore gaming experience then you did. you may want a raiding hardcore guild but the gaps in attention you give it force it to be a casual. Giving stuff out of the guild bank as bribes? frankly that sounds like just an excuse. What is the point of putting stuff in the guild bank if your not going to be giving it out to members that actually want to raid and put the time into it so they can improve themselves and make raids more doable? I am sure there is drama in the background not mentioned in your post.
Heres the thing. Casual guilds that actually get things done are EXTREMELY rare. I dont know what game you are playing but im in a WoW guild like this and we barely manage to get the 10 raiders we need for 10 man raids in normal. We dont drama over loot, all of us are long term players, and we take it at our own pace, but finding people like that is pretty rare because they tend to be small groups of friends hanging on to a guild that cant field a full raid.
Your best bet is to merge two or three guilds exactly like yours. You may get enough to field a raid, but good luck keeping the drama out of who gets the GL title.
while I played guild wars 2, the guild I was in died overnight, and the leader did nothing to really stop it.
Running casual guilds is hard, because people either aren't as active, or are using it as a stepping stone to a more hardcore guild.
That said I basically agree with Ceres. Sounds like you simply don't have real time to give to the guild, and you should have passed the reigns to a different guild leader (as in, not telling an officer to run it, but actually making an officer into guild leader and demoting yourself to officer), and left the responsibility in the hands of someone who actually has the time for it. Try and find a casual guild in the game that meshes with your more casual philosophy of playing, continue to focus on Uni, and enjoy the game as a game and not something that you have to run successfully. I have never wanted to be guild leader of my guild, precisely because I didn't want to be the one responsible for making sure there were raid groups all the time. I sometimes have chosen to run my own raids, or have been asked to run them, but the responsibility of the overall guild is not mine and I much prefer that.
But fuck you — no, fuck y'all, that's as blunt as it gets"
- Kendrick Lamar, "The Blacker the Berry"
I agree, but the "mad at game" thing sort of applies.
When we're all at work and we have a disagreement, that sucks, but I'm at work and if everything was easy I wouldn't get paid to do it.
When we're video gaming, we're all doing something with our free time for pleasure and relaxation. Whatever the activity, be it running a guild, forming a team, whatever... if you find that it's getting in the way of your fun and causing stress, get back to the roots of the game.
Like you said, far, far more people would be happier to just join a casual guild and enjoy the game, rather than run something.
It sounds like Cat is the kind of guild leader most people in a casual, non-family guild want. He's willing to give up stuff for the betterment of the guild without fanfare (until he realized you weren't doing the same, then it became an issue).
Small guilds, as state above, are almost always built on friendship. Yes, there will be drama. But, guilds—unless you're a hardcore raider—are usually at their best when you have a group of friends or people that become friends gaming together, having fun, and achieving things together.
-Realize you're going to be the person who puts in the most work. Don't expect to be commensurately compensated or thanked for that extra work.
-Outline clear goals for your group, and make sure those goals are communicated to current and prospective members. Realize that there will always be people who come to find they can't make the commitment (or have life circumstances change) and quit. Don't take it personally.
-Talk to individual members of your group. Try to understand what brought them into the group, what keeps them there, and what they want to accomplish. Try to find ways to align their goals with the group's, or communicate to them that they may have to compromise on some things.
-Set schedules for activities and stick to those schedules. Consistency is important -- it helps people set aside time for the group, and also helps them get into a groove.
-Foster friendships and good morale. Be kind and respectful to your members, and encourage the same behavior from others.
-Get off your high horse. Leading effectively means using your authority appropriately, to maintain order and morale, and to further your group's progress towards its goals. Abusing your power for selfish reasons will decimate your credibility and membership in an instant.
-Make yourself available and approachable. You should welcome feedback, positive and negative.
-Delegate appropriate tasks. Trying to do every single thing yourself is a great way to get burned out.
Path of Exile: snowcrash7
MTG Arena: Snow_Crash#34179
Battle.net: Snowcrash#1873
But the thing is, that can work.
In my guild the officers had absolute control. The GM's -only- duty was to mediate between the officers if there was a dispute which they couldn't resolve on their own.
Because that's all an absentia GM can do. If you're not around for the day to day workings of the guild, you get no voice in the day to day workings of the guild.
What eventually killed my guild was the GM coming back and not being happy with what the guild had become, and wanting to suddenly be treated as the actual leader.
The officers elected a new "leader" (someone who would be equal to the other officers, but who would just have the GM title), made a new guild, and all the old GM was left with were alts people had forgotten.
The old GM had a public tantrum on the official forums, but something he needed to learn, and something you seem to need as well:
The guild's leader is the person the members see running the guild; not the person who has the highest rank.
You were a guild GM.
You were not a guild leader.
People will follow the leader.
Guild leader is definitely not a rank, it's the natural matriculation to the lead role of the person who is investing the most energy while simultaneously possessing the right people skills to allow people to follow them. There's no way to make people follow you, they're naturally going to follow the person who best allows them to organize in an enjoyable way.
That is unless you're a top raiding guild, in which case replace anything about fun, socialization or enjoyment with brutal, soul-crushing dick hammers.