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Star Citizen/Squadron 42 | Go Find the New Thread

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Posts

  • KashaarKashaar Low OrbitRegistered User regular
    Mr Ray wrote: »
    I'm wondering how Hornet vs Origin dogfights are likely to go... obviously the Hornet has a lot more dakka, but the Origin is faster and more maneuverable so it'll be able to dictate range, shake off pursuit and stay on a target more easily... in theory. That Hornet pilot did exactly the right thing by slamming the brakes on; he wasn't going to lose the 300i any other way. Although I'm not sure why he didn't just blow the both of them up with the ball turret. The 300i also has more upgrade slots, but those are meaningless until we know some specifics about what sort of upgrades are going to be available.
    Actually I believe the Hornet is a great deal more maneuverable than the 300i. Basically, the Hornet has 8 TR2 maneuvering thrusters. The 300i has 12 TR1 maneuvering thrusters. What's the difference? TR1s are fixed in place while TR2s articulate. That's gotta be a huge advantage. Not sure about the speed thing though.

    Do you have a source for that? I was under the impression that the number after the TR just denotes their thrust power... the 300i series has two articulating and a 10 non-articulating maneuvering thrusters after all, listed in the ship specs as Origin Scalpel Precision and Origin Omni Precision.

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  • Just_Bri_ThanksJust_Bri_Thanks Seething with rage from a handbasket.Registered User, ClubPA regular
    I still want to strip all the sensor equipment off my Tracker and put it on my Super, and ditto for the weapons on my Super.

    ...and when you are done with that; take a folding
    chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.
  • SanguineAngelSanguineAngel Lord Centre of the UniverseRegistered User regular
    edited October 2013
    ironzerg wrote: »
    I think people are trying to equivocate with themselves a little bit here.

    It's very possible that the Super Hornet is more maneuverable, better armored and better armed that the 325i. In Privateer and Wing Commander, there were just flat out better ships. A Raptor was better in every single way than a Scimitar. I think some of the discussion is coming from the MMO-mentality where everything has to be "balanced". I wouldn't expect that in Star Citizen, and I would also be a bit disappointed if it was.

    To me, the balancing factor is going to be the credits. For example (with completely made up numbers).

    Box cost:

    325i = 700,000 CR
    Super Hornet = 1,650,000 CR

    Let's assume you can get the best of the best of the best on a 325i for a total cost of 1,500,000 CR. A 325i with cost PLUS upgrades totaling 1,500,000 CR should be more than a match for a Super Hornet out of the box. However, if the best of the best can go into the Super Hornet, but it costs a total of 3,000,000 CR, then I would expect that fully maxed Super Hornet to deliver more than a 325i.

    This is all assuming equal pilot skill (which in these comparisons you HAVE to). Using Privateer as another example: You COULD put the best parts available on a Tarsus, but you'd never compete in a dogfight with a Centurion.

    I just feel that there has to be some sort of progression when it comes to the ships, beyond just better equipment. Whether you're a dogfighter, trader or explorer, I think having that "ship to strive" for is a good thing in a game like Star Citizen.

    I think most of the discussion is coming from the fact that ones a fancy sports car with guns and the others basically a tank.

    Also I'd much rather a situation where we don't have 'X is just a better version of Y'. The models are all really nice and seeing tons of the same ship all over would be dull.

    I agree to a degree.

    To take the Hornet and 300 series as an example, I think we're going to see many of the ships being more specialist. The Hornet is described as manoeuvrable and a power house but the 300 series is described as fast and not insubstantially armed itself. In certain situations, each ship is likely to come out better but in a straight fight, all other things being equal? It is not unreasonable for us to wonder whether the different strengths and weaknesses might make it an even match. It's a great example since speed vs strength is a instinctive balance for us - we often see sturdy knights battling nimble martial artists for example.

    I think the various ships will require pilots to develop different skill sets to use them effectively and in particular to take advantage of the various ships weaknesses. I think that's great, the different ships are likely to be favoured by different players based on their own style and ability so we're very likely to see variety in the sky and taking player skill and the near limitless loadout potential into account - a fight should never be too predictable.

    SanguineAngel on
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  • Just_Bri_ThanksJust_Bri_Thanks Seething with rage from a handbasket.Registered User, ClubPA regular
    All I know for sure is that in a hornet versus hornet battle, the hornet wins.

    ...and when you are done with that; take a folding
    chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.
  • Sir CarcassSir Carcass I have been shown the end of my world Round Rock, TXRegistered User regular
    All I know for sure is that in a hornet versus hornet battle, the hornet wins.

    Only half of the time.

  • FuselageFuselage Oosik Jumpship LoungeRegistered User regular
    You guys are setting your sights too low. Stealth Tracker Retaliator...named SSV Normandy SR-1.

    o4n72w5h9b5y.png
  • ironzergironzerg Registered User regular
    I think most of the discussion is coming from the fact that ones a fancy sports car with guns and the others basically a tank.

    I'm pretty sure a sports car wouldn't stand much of a chance versus a tank in a straight up fight.

    Second, this is exactly what I'm talking about. People are throwing around these fluffy statements that are inherently meaningless. Granted, we won't know for sure until we actually PLAY the game, but don't be surprised if things aren't as "balanced" as you think they should be once we do. Again, this isn't your typical MMO.

    And as an addendum on the whole speed vs fire-power thing, consensus will be reached on how much of each is the optimal balance, and you'll see A LOT of the same ship that tends to best deliver the maximum amount of each. There is going to be a small section of ships, or even a single ship that's going to become THE basis for THE best dogfighting ship.

    Look at are own military. There's jet fighters that are just flat out better in every way than other fighters. A Hornet is likely to be superior in nearly every combat role. However, it's probably not much good for a lot of other stuff. It's not likely you'll be able to mod a Hornet to make it a better light-trade ship or even dedicated exploration vessel like something out of the 300 series. But when it comes to going wing-to-wing with another fighter, it's going to be tough to beat.

    Otherwise I think you go down the path of this constant, unrealistic and immersion breaking cycle where RSI is constantly trying to balance ships against each other, resulting in some sort of crazy nerf/buff dance where nothing ever works. If you start with the objective that you're just going to have better ships in better categories, then balance around cost and flexibility, I think you put yourself in a much better framework for fun and interesting game play.

    It's just better design for people to KNOW that certain ships are best in certain roles, then they can plan accordingly and work towards their desired path. Otherwise, it's just play the "flavor of the month" ship game, which will just end up hosing people in the long run.


  • Just_Bri_ThanksJust_Bri_Thanks Seething with rage from a handbasket.Registered User, ClubPA regular
    Fuselage wrote: »
    You guys are setting your sights too low. Stealth Tracker Retaliator...named SSV Normandy SR-1.

    Not big enough.

    ...and when you are done with that; take a folding
    chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.
  • SanguineAngelSanguineAngel Lord Centre of the UniverseRegistered User regular
    edited October 2013
    For the record, I think you're talking a lot of sense, ironzerg. I'm sure you're right and we will see a lot of people pursuing an ideal configuration for specific scenarios. I am already thinking of them as Min/Maxers.

    However, I am hopeful that because this is not a typical MMO, as you have said, and that all ships are not equal, the variety of ships and loadouts will find a match with a variety of play styles and abilities and so we would still see plenty of variety in the ships being used in combat.

    I'm really excited to see what the dogfighting module will bring in this regard

    SanguineAngel on
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  • FuselageFuselage Oosik Jumpship LoungeRegistered User regular
    Fuselage wrote: »
    You guys are setting your sights too low. Stealth Tracker Retaliator...named SSV Normandy SR-1.

    Not big enough.

    I know it isn't big enough, but it's easier to attain than a corvette.

    o4n72w5h9b5y.png
  • ironzergironzerg Registered User regular
    ve said, and that all ships are not equal, the variety of ships and loadouts will find a match with a variety of play styles and abilities and so we would still see plenty of variety in the ships being used in combat.

    I agree. But things should also be a pretty transparent to the players. Again, if people know that the Hornet, while being a lot more expensive is a better overall dogfighting ship than the 325, I think that's fine. But maybe the 325 is built for people who aren't looking for a straight up fight, but going to explore a dangerous part of space, and need to bring some firepower. Just because one ship is better at one thing, doesn't mean it's a better ship. It just means it's better at that one thing. And there's nothing wrong with that.

    And I think this is what they're aiming for, particularly by having different ship manufacturers that may more clearly delineate a ship's design philosophy.

    RSI: If you want a ship with maximum flexibility, the most options in their class, and the ability to fill almost any role, this is a great place to start.

    Anvil: If you want to get as close as a civilian can get to military-grade hardware, look no further than Anvil.

    Origin: Are you looking to head out into the vastness of space, and need a ship suited to handle just about anything the galaxy can throw out you, all in a premium package? You're asking for an Origin ship.

    MISC: Efficient. Modular. Functional. Are you in it for the "long haul"? The first choice of traders and merchants galaxy wide.

    Drake: The galaxy is full of gray areas. Are you one of those pilots that choose more "interesting" ways to "acquire" fortunes? Well that's exactly the kind of pilot Drake has in mind when designing ships.

    So if you want a top of the line dogfighter to go toe to toe? Check out Anvil. Want to head into the most dangerous parts of space and still have room in the trunk to collect some alien tech? Try Origin, or maybe RSI. Need to the best when to comes to outfitting a hauler for you merch runs? MISC is a great place to start. Need the power and flexibility to *ahem* secure some cargo in some more "colorful" parts of space. Drake probably has what you need.

    And again, not saying that you HAVE to tie each ship to exactly that, but it creates more consistency, transparency and immersion for those pilots looking to get the most of THEIR ship for THEIR purpose.

  • Just_Bri_ThanksJust_Bri_Thanks Seething with rage from a handbasket.Registered User, ClubPA regular
    If it is worth doing, it's worth doing right.

    ...and when you are done with that; take a folding
    chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.
  • ironzergironzerg Registered User regular

    Dear god this. Please. In fact, I think something in the OP discussing this exact thing might be warranted.

    There's a lot of really shitty elements out there taking advantage of people who are just hyped for the game, but lack the knowledge.

    If you're new and want to support Star Citizen, buy directly from Cloud Imperium Games. If you need help sorting out LTI on a package, do it from a trust friend or source. Don't go to Reddit, or trust some bag of dicks who's just a little too eager to help out.

    In fact, I personally wouldn't mind if leading up to the LTI deadline, CIG offered a $5 or $10 upgrade to LTI per ship. Original backers get this on all their ships for free. But if you're late to the game and really want to have LTI, it's there for a small fee.

  • SanguineAngelSanguineAngel Lord Centre of the UniverseRegistered User regular
    edited October 2013
    I was not even aware of this seedy underside. All I have seen is the people all talking about it together and making it abundantly clear about the price difference and being generally all round good eggs. I sure as heck didn't realise people were selling this stuff on Amazon!?

    At this point in the game though, I am so deep in that it seems weird to me that people wouldn't know about these things that I've been absorbing for over a year. So I guess I never really thought about anyone not knowing about the differences between original backers and the pledge levels or really how to navigate the CIG site and find the information.

    SanguineAngel on
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  • Sir CarcassSir Carcass I have been shown the end of my world Round Rock, TXRegistered User regular
    Are the Wingman's Hangar episodes worth catching up on? I've only seen a couple of random sections. Are they just repeating information I probably already know from this thread, or do they have some pretty neat stuff worth watching?

  • ElvenshaeElvenshae Registered User regular
    Are the Wingman's Hangar episodes worth catching up on? I've only seen a couple of random sections. Are they just repeating information I probably already know from this thread, or do they have some pretty neat stuff worth watching?

    You might already know most of the stuff from the thread, but they're largely entertaining to watch, anyway. I generally watch about 1/3 of them (watch one, skip a couple weeks, etc.).

  • ElvenshaeElvenshae Registered User regular
    I was not even aware of this seedy underside. All I have seen is the people all talking about it together and making it abundantly clear about the price difference and being generally all round good eggs. I sure as heck didn't realise people were selling this stuff on Amazon!?

    At this point in the game though, I am so deep in that it seems weird to me that people wouldn't know about these things that I've been absorbing for over a year. So I guess I never really thought about anyone not knowing about the differences between original backers and the pledge levels or really how to navigate the CIG site and find the information.

    Yeah - we're generally pretty classy about this, here.

    I mean, I'm not. I charge absolutely outrageous fees for my assistance in getting in on the LTI action. Shame fleet ain't gonna grow itself, you know.

    Moneypit_zps57e90e53.jpg
    Because some people didn't get this the last time I posted this, and therefore the reason I took it out of my ongoingly updated "Bribing a Backer!" post: I don't actually charge any fees whatsoever, and I do this for friends and family, not for random strangers.

    Also, you're all my friends. *brofist*

  • keitaroayukeitaroayu EOD Sand BoxRegistered User regular
    Elvenshae wrote: »
    I was not even aware of this seedy underside. All I have seen is the people all talking about it together and making it abundantly clear about the price difference and being generally all round good eggs. I sure as heck didn't realise people were selling this stuff on Amazon!?

    At this point in the game though, I am so deep in that it seems weird to me that people wouldn't know about these things that I've been absorbing for over a year. So I guess I never really thought about anyone not knowing about the differences between original backers and the pledge levels or really how to navigate the CIG site and find the information.

    Yeah - we're generally pretty classy about this, here.

    I mean, I'm not. I charge absolutely outrageous fees for my assistance in getting in on the LTI action. Shame fleet ain't gonna grow itself, you know.

    Moneypit_zps57e90e53.jpg
    Because some people didn't get this the last time I posted this, and therefore the reason I took it out of my ongoingly updated "Bribing a Backer!" post: I don't actually charge any fees whatsoever, and I do this for friends and family, not for random strangers.

    Also, you're all my friends. *brofist*

    Haha I can see this community growing into something amazing!

  • CarbonFireCarbonFire See you in the countryRegistered User regular
    Elvenshae wrote: »
    Are the Wingman's Hangar episodes worth catching up on? I've only seen a couple of random sections. Are they just repeating information I probably already know from this thread, or do they have some pretty neat stuff worth watching?

    You might already know most of the stuff from the thread, but they're largely entertaining to watch, anyway. I generally watch about 1/3 of them (watch one, skip a couple weeks, etc.).

    I'll say they've gotten better from their early days (woo boy), but I still only find them barely watchable. I think they set their goal too high with the time limit, so they end up stretching things out and adding less interesting filler. I'd much rather have a tight 10-15 show chock full of information, than trying to drag everything out to fill up 30 minutes to an hour of content.

    That said, haven't watched the latest one about Squadron 42, maybe it's good. We're certainly still starving for info on the "single player" portion of this behemoth.

    Steam: CarbonFire MWO, PSN, Origin: Carb0nFire
  • wreckzorswreckzors Registered User regular
    quick question about gifting.
    It asked for a name and an email address. Do you need to put in the username and email address associated with my friends with star citizen account or just can I put in just put in their name and email address (see below)

    name: my buddy steve
    email: steveisgettingsweetassships@Ihaveamazingfriends.com

  • DaMoonRulzDaMoonRulz Mare ImbriumRegistered User regular
    The email address is the important part, so they can get the "You got a gift message" for name you can put anything. For example: Wienerdickbutt

    3basnids3lf9.jpg




  • ErlkönigErlkönig Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    edited October 2013
    After reading the Hornet FAQ, I'm awfully tempted to melt down my Ghost for a Super Hornet. Something about a Super Hornet + LLR + void armor and other stealth options just leaves me tickled in various, left-to-be-unmentioned places.

    EDIT - but then again, the thought of a Hornet Ghost with the gatling cannons is also naughtily entertaining to me...

    Erlkönig on
    | Origin/R*SC: Ein7919 | Battle.net: Erlkonig#1448 | XBL: Lexicanum | Steam: Der Erlkönig (the umlaut is important) |
  • yossarian_livesyossarian_lives Registered User regular
    Kashaar wrote: »
    Mr Ray wrote: »
    I'm wondering how Hornet vs Origin dogfights are likely to go... obviously the Hornet has a lot more dakka, but the Origin is faster and more maneuverable so it'll be able to dictate range, shake off pursuit and stay on a target more easily... in theory. That Hornet pilot did exactly the right thing by slamming the brakes on; he wasn't going to lose the 300i any other way. Although I'm not sure why he didn't just blow the both of them up with the ball turret. The 300i also has more upgrade slots, but those are meaningless until we know some specifics about what sort of upgrades are going to be available.
    Actually I believe the Hornet is a great deal more maneuverable than the 300i. Basically, the Hornet has 8 TR2 maneuvering thrusters. The 300i has 12 TR1 maneuvering thrusters. What's the difference? TR1s are fixed in place while TR2s articulate. That's gotta be a huge advantage. Not sure about the speed thing though.

    Do you have a source for that? I was under the impression that the number after the TR just denotes their thrust power... the 300i series has two articulating and a 10 non-articulating maneuvering thrusters after all, listed in the ship specs as Origin Scalpel Precision and Origin Omni Precision.
    Well I did some digging and it appears you are correct. I've no idea where I got this notion from. My apologies for the misinformation.

    "I see everything twice!"


  • DaMoonRulzDaMoonRulz Mare ImbriumRegistered User regular
    TR = Thrust Ratio? (honest question)

    Any original backers able to tell me how much the Weekend Warrior pack costs you?

    3basnids3lf9.jpg




  • CarbonFireCarbonFire See you in the countryRegistered User regular
    Erlkönig wrote: »
    After reading the Hornet FAQ, I'm awfully tempted to melt down my Ghost for a Super Hornet. Something about a Super Hornet + LLR + void armor and other stealth options just leaves me tickled in various, left-to-be-unmentioned places.

    EDIT - but then again, the thought of a Hornet Ghost with the gatling cannons is also naughtily entertaining to me...

    The Super Hornet with the Ball Turret swapped for a LLR seems like it will be THE GO-TO platform for wing commanders. One person dedicated to coordinating squadron movement and target prioritization, while retaining almost the same combat efficiency for the pilot as most other fighter platforms.

    Steam: CarbonFire MWO, PSN, Origin: Carb0nFire
  • keitaroayukeitaroayu EOD Sand BoxRegistered User regular
    What store are you guys using to buy items for gifting? I went to voyager direct on the website and noticed this disclaimer. "All sales are final
    By authority of the CCB: No exchange, gifts or refunds." Anyone care to shed some light on this?

  • DaMoonRulzDaMoonRulz Mare ImbriumRegistered User regular
    Voyager Direct is for the little stuff for your hangar. The Pledge Store is for ships.

    3basnids3lf9.jpg




  • keitaroayukeitaroayu EOD Sand BoxRegistered User regular
    DaMoonRulz wrote: »
    Voyager Direct is for the little stuff for your hangar. The Pledge Store is for ships.

    Thanks for your help!

  • Just_Bri_ThanksJust_Bri_Thanks Seething with rage from a handbasket.Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited October 2013
    Erlkönig wrote: »
    After reading the Hornet FAQ, I'm awfully tempted to melt down my Ghost for a Super Hornet. Something about a Super Hornet + LLR + void armor and other stealth options just leaves me tickled in various, left-to-be-unmentioned places.

    EDIT - but then again, the thought of a Hornet Ghost with the gatling cannons is also naughtily entertaining to me...

    Please note that the faq says that putting stealh upgrades on your Super will not nessisarily be as effective as they are on the ghost. The gats would probably melt your stealth.

    That being said, I am totally moving all of the super's default modules to the single seat spaceframe on my tracker and vice versa because I want a single seat Super and a two seat SWACS.

    Just_Bri_Thanks on
    ...and when you are done with that; take a folding
    chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.
  • yossarian_livesyossarian_lives Registered User regular
    Most stuff in the pledge store can be melted for store credit after purchase. Which is pretty nifty if you decide to get something shinier.

    "I see everything twice!"


  • FuselageFuselage Oosik Jumpship LoungeRegistered User regular
    I will admit all of this Hornet news is making my palms itch. I just keep telling myself that when I can see the hangar Cutlass and variants that I'll be grateful.

    o4n72w5h9b5y.png
  • yossarian_livesyossarian_lives Registered User regular
    Cutlass variants might take a while seeing as how Freelancer then Constellation is the current lineup. It's ok if you pick up a Hornet. We understand.
    Just... give in. It's the easiest thing in the world.

    "I see everything twice!"


  • Just_Bri_ThanksJust_Bri_Thanks Seething with rage from a handbasket.Registered User, ClubPA regular
    You can elect to melt it for store credit later.

    ...and when you are done with that; take a folding
    chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.
  • keitaroayukeitaroayu EOD Sand BoxRegistered User regular
    Yay! I'm a new proud owner of the Super Hornet! I must resist buying more ships!

  • Just_Bri_ThanksJust_Bri_Thanks Seething with rage from a handbasket.Registered User, ClubPA regular
    Good luck with that.

    ...and when you are done with that; take a folding
    chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.
  • ErlkönigErlkönig Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    Erlkönig wrote: »
    After reading the Hornet FAQ, I'm awfully tempted to melt down my Ghost for a Super Hornet. Something about a Super Hornet + LLR + void armor and other stealth options just leaves me tickled in various, left-to-be-unmentioned places.

    EDIT - but then again, the thought of a Hornet Ghost with the gatling cannons is also naughtily entertaining to me...

    Please note that the faq says that putting stealh upgrades on your Super will not nessisarily be as effective as they are on the ghost. The gats would probably melt your stealth.

    That being said, I am totally moving all of the super's default modules to the single seat spaceframe on my tracker and vice versa because I want a single seat Super and a two seat SWACS.

    Bear in mind that the section you are referring to in the FAQ says it won't necessary be as effective...unless you also equip other low-emission modules (the power plant and engine, for example). And just looking at the gatling cannon in the brochure, it sounds like it's a ballistic (read: non-energy based) weapon...which sounds perfect for an ultra-low emission covert ops craft :twisted:

    Going over these brochures and ship specs is giving me flashbacks of back when my family bought the first Wing Commander game for our 286. For the first month we couldn't figure out the config.sys and autoexec.bat setup to squeeze the needed memory, and so we just spent a solid month intensely studying the four blueprints for the ships in the game and their equipped weapons, shields, and capabilities.

    | Origin/R*SC: Ein7919 | Battle.net: Erlkonig#1448 | XBL: Lexicanum | Steam: Der Erlkönig (the umlaut is important) |
  • CarbonFireCarbonFire See you in the countryRegistered User regular
    edited October 2013
    Cutlass variants might take a while seeing as how Freelancer then Constellation is the current lineup. It's ok if you pick up a Hornet. We understand.
    Just... give in. It's the easiest thing in the world.

    They'd be smart to get those announced before the LTI deadline, because as TOGSolid pointed out earlier, people are going to be a lot less forthcoming with their cash if they're asked to drop hundreds of dollars on something that could theoretically one day be permanently destroyed.

    I have to imagine they'll let you keep your LTI if you upgrade your ship to a new variant after the deadline, but they'd still be missing out on some sales.

    CarbonFire on
    Steam: CarbonFire MWO, PSN, Origin: Carb0nFire
  • ElvenshaeElvenshae Registered User regular
    keitaroayu wrote: »
    Yay! I'm a new proud owner of the Super Hornet! I must resist buying more ships!

    Welcome to the Shame Fleet. You badge and uniform are through the door on your left.

  • The Black HunterThe Black Hunter The key is a minimum of compromise, and a simple, unimpeachable reason to existRegistered User regular
    God damn I really want that bomber.

    I'll be truthful about my 300i though, it's not as sleek as I'd hoped. I was expection something like a Naboo space ship, with a few more lines on it. or like this bugatti
    bugatti-type-57-atlantic-08.jpg
    but like this thing
    bugatti-type-57-atlantic-02.jpg

    I can't wait to get into this game though. An X game with other people. A system like the Pawn system in Dragons Dogma or the Dark Souls system will be fricken rad

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