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[Infinity Wars] Free to Play Digital CCG. Yes, another one. Currently in beta.

The EnderThe Ender Registered User regular
edited March 2014 in Games and Technology
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Genesis scientists that show no aptitude for lab work are given jetpacks instead.


I want to play these TCG games but they are so complicated and people talk about the strategy in these games like they have their own foreign language.

Okay. I think we really need a primer for TCGs / CCGs at this point with so many of these things flying around. I'll try to outline the basics here; the well of knowledge runs much deeper than I can dig right now, but this should get you on the right track:
1: Fundamentally, most TCGs are about killing your opponent. The first thing you should do every turn is ask yourself, "Can I kill my opponent right now?"

For most of the game you can expect the answer to this question to be 'no', of course, but it's very, very important to get in the habit of asking yourself this question because it's so easy to fall into the trap of just following some card combo routine or chasing some other secondary goal when your opponent could already be dead. For beginner players, I would say that this is the most important mental exercise to do.

2: To kill your opponents in most TCGs, you need cards and you need the opportunity to play those cards

This is simple and probably obvious, but a lot of what happens in a TCG will distract you from these two core principles. Losing cards is usually bad, as is losing opportunities to play cards. If you use multiple cards to destroy one card that your opponent has, this fundmanetally puts you at a disadvantage per these simple principles (since it probably required more spent opportunity & definitely cost more cards on your end). This doesn't mean that it's always the wrong move, but it does mean you have to build a recognition that it's not something you want to be doing given a different option.

3: Since you need cards and the opportunity to play those cards to win, and your opponent needs the same thing, having more cards and more opportunities to play them gives you an advantage

If you have more cards than your opponent, your have what is commonly known as 'card advantage'. If you have had more opportunities to play cards than your opponent, you have what's commonly known as 'tempo advantage'. Tempo advantage usually comes in the form of cards that provide bonus resources or bonus turns, while card advantage usually comes in the form of cards that let you draw more cards or that destroy multiple opposing cards.

Having these two things does not mean that you will win a match, but it does mean that you are in a better position to do so.

4: The most powerful cards in a TCG, given the above statements, will be ones that you will likely have an opportunity to play and can: kill your opponent very quickly, be exchanged for increased card advantage, be exchanged for increased tempo, or any combination of those things

When building a deck / hunting for cards, if you want a tryhard competitive machine, look for cards with these qualities.

Another F2P digital card game? I'm not sure how much harder my dick can even get at this point to be honest. Is this just another M:tG clone, or maybe a Hearthstone clone, or...?

Infinity Wars does not feel like a clone of any other CCG, and is extremely distant from Hearthstone in terms of it's mechanics. Turns are resolved simultaneously, which means you don't have to just sit through the other guy's play and you have to be good at guessing what (s)he is going to do on their turn. There's a Trading Post function that allows you to trade dead cards out for a small resource cost, or even just draw extra cards (albeit at a much steeper price).

The most interesting part of the game, in my opinion, is the division of the battlefield into different zones. Most spells can only target certain zones, and you can freely move units you've brought into play between zones - meaning that you can dodge any removal spell, include board sweepers, so long as you can correctly guess when your opponent is going to play it and act accordingly. This makes the game's skill ceiling (and the reward for reaching it) very, very high,

Pay to win? Pay to PVP?

Okay, here's the deal:

It is not pay to PVP, so you don't have to worry about that.

If you want to build a competitive deck, yes, you will have to ultimately buy packs. The game is reasonably generous about giving you packs, but there is a lot of chaff, and the game lacks any kind of crafting mechanic like Hearthstone, so you'll wind-up with a billion copies of common & uncommon cards, while the chase rares that are fundamental to high level decks can only be reasonably acquired by buying packs & trading.

So, yes, in that sense the game is pay to win.

Link to a video of example play:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gC4bkxKZuJc

This is just got out of Beta, right? How's it shaping-up?

Pro: It isn't buggy at all.

Con: It desperately needs some TLC on the presentation side of things.

Some cards look like they were done in MS Paint. Okay, not that bad, but still: some of the card art is Godawful. The sound assets are just fucking terrible. The interface is ugly, and still looks very placeholder-esque.


If this kind of stuff turns you off, make sure you come to Infinity Wars with very low expectations.

Is there a card database anyone has set-up? I like to make plans!

Yup

Just be aware that a lot of the stats and artwork on that archive are out of date due to recent patching of the game.



With Love and Courage
The Ender on

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    Moridin889Moridin889 Registered User regular
    You forgot to mention the sweet things you can do with excess resources

    Trading post to mulligan first turn, pay 3 to shuffle a card back and redraw, pay 5 to draw a card, pay 9 to increase resources. You'll never not have a play

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    The EnderThe Ender Registered User regular
    Moridin889 wrote: »
    You forgot to mention the sweet things you can do with excess resources

    Trading post to mulligan first turn, pay 3 to shuffle a card back and redraw, pay 5 to draw a card, pay 9 to increase resources. You'll never not have a play

    Oh yeah!

    I kind of think of the Trading Post as a crutch for decks without a proper resource curve (it's telling that the most-used functions of the post are cost 3 or cost 5, where most new players are prone to having gaps in their curve).


    I very rarely find myself using the function if I'm honest; I've become too asinine about building curves. so I rarely have 3 resources available to spend (much less 5) unless I'm getting my ass kicked pretty badly.

    With Love and Courage
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    The EnderThe Ender Registered User regular
    ...Also, it is so, so damn satisfying to wreck a cheese moral-breaking dragon deck with some aggro nonsense and then give the other guy a very smug 'gg well played'. Oh my God.

    Especially when they are slo-mo'ing it at the end, so you can tell they're pissed off.

    With Love and Courage
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    Moridin889Moridin889 Registered User regular
    Run exiles/vedore.

    Calamity mass death wholesale slaughter dehumanize and deathray.

    Rest of the deck is token gen, card gen, and stuff like ritual master and demon of gluttony.

    I'm not terribly concerned by DotD decks. :p

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    The EnderThe Ender Registered User regular

    Moridin889 wrote: »
    Run exiles/vedore.

    Calamity mass death wholesale slaughter dehumanize and deathray.

    Rest of the deck is token gen, card gen, and stuff like ritual master and demon of gluttony.

    I'm not terribly concerned by DotD decks. :p

    Verore/Exile control is pretty good. It's probably, A+, while something like Breeder is A-.

    DotD/Verore Control is Rare Akuma tier. It is just flat-out unbeatable except in a mirror match, even if you draw your best possible hand against it.
    rofldotd.png

    These cards are just too good in concert. Literally all you have to do is sit around behind the best defensive characters and control spells until you can drop Lethargy Stone. I'm not sure exactly what the perfect deck looks like right now, but these cards are the gateway to top 10 status and I guarantee that they will be included in that perfect deck.

    With Love and Courage
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    VaregaVarega Registered User regular
    This is, hands down, my favorite game of the moment. If you understand stack manipulation, this game's depth is incredible. Once the developers get actual credit card payment (not just PayPal), I am putting some cash into this game.

    League of Legends:Varega
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    WingedWeaselWingedWeasel Registered User regular
    figured i'd necro rather than start a new thread. i am guessing this is now in "open" beta since it is now on steam.

    so far it is pretty enjoyable. haven't bothered beyond the campaign just yet but so far seems solid.

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    MeisterMeister Registered User regular
    edited March 2014
    Just started playing this game. Out of the dTCGs I've played (Hearthstone, Solforge, Shadow Arena, and this), it's been my favorite so far. Anyone else playing?

    Meister on
    3DS friend code friend code: 4485-1155-2584
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    MeisterMeister Registered User regular
    edited March 2014
    Also you should update the OP to mention that it's open registration now. You don't need an invite.

    Meister on
    3DS friend code friend code: 4485-1155-2584
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    The EnderThe Ender Registered User regular
    Yes, the OP needs a serious update.

    Exiles are now a real faction with a campaign & everything, and - as you guys have mentioned - it's been greenlit and in open Beta.

    With Love and Courage
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    The EnderThe Ender Registered User regular
    Ghetto update complete.

    With Love and Courage
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    MeisterMeister Registered User regular
    Also your review of the art style seems a bit harsh. Yes, the art style isn't AAA quality, and some of the character proportions and poses are questionable, e.g. what is up with the Splatterer's arm?
    RISE_SPLATTER.png?d=20140221

    But on the other hand, every card is animated, and many of the animations are quite detailed, e.g. (ignoring the horrible color compression on these web images):
    Low-Orbit-Ion-Cannon.gif
    hlcnzk85r0m3.gif

    In comparison, the animations of even AAA studios like Blizzard look lazy, e.g. in Hearthstone most of the gold card animations are static with some floating particles:
    Lightwarden.gif
    Flamestrike.gif

    3DS friend code friend code: 4485-1155-2584
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    MeisterMeister Registered User regular
    And I'd say this game is much less pay to win than Hearthstone. For one, there's trading functionality, so you can get even trades on cards you don't want instead of getting paying 4:1 with the disenchanting like you do in Hearthstone.

    Also, Hearthstone's only even-playing-field game mode is Draft, which you have to pay currency to access. Infinity Wars has similar currency-gated Draft mode, but they also have the free Merged Deck mode, so from level 1 you can play on equal footing with other players.

    Plus, IW is very generous with giving you cards. You get cards for completing campaign, cards for your profile level-ups, cards from faction level-ups, cards from IP, cards from daily log-in, cards from quests (which are going to get even more rewarding with Wednesday's patch). In comparison, Hearthstone is extremely stingy.

    If IW is pay to win, then League of Legends, Hearthstone, and basically every other free to play game is pay to win.

    3DS friend code friend code: 4485-1155-2584
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    MeisterMeister Registered User regular
    Oh, and if you prefer Constructed over Merged Deck format, there's even the Pauper mode, which only allows players to use Uncommon and Common cards in their deck. Honestly, out of all free to play online games that I've tried, Infinity Wars is the least "pay to win" of all of them, and offers you fair game modes right from the start.

    3DS friend code friend code: 4485-1155-2584
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    MeisterMeister Registered User regular
    ALSO unlike Hearthstone, there is no limit to the amount of currency that you can get per day, and you get extra cards and IP with the master/apprentice system. Seriously I played Hearthstone for a month and didn't get a single legendary. I've been playing IW for a few days, and I already have four legendaries.

    3DS friend code friend code: 4485-1155-2584
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    The EnderThe Ender Registered User regular
    edited March 2014
    There are definitely good looking cards in Infinity Wars, just the bad ones are especially noticeable. One of Many & Grotesque Brute are the two that come to mind most prominently.
    Plus, IW is very generous with giving you cards. You get cards for completing campaign, cards for your profile level-ups, cards from faction level-ups, cards from IP, cards from daily log-in, cards from quests (which are going to get even more rewarding with Wednesday's patch). In comparison, Hearthstone is extremely stingy.

    If IW is pay to win, then League of Legends, Hearthstone, and basically every other free to play game is pay to win.

    I don't agree with this assessment. Yes, when you start the game, it will give you a lot of cards to build basic core decks. After that initial surge of cards, though, you get very few cards for just playing games (a handful as daily rewards, full packs upon leveling up). Getting legendaries out of this system requires you to be a savvy trader or to pay money.

    By contrast, you can get enough gold in two days worth of playing Hearthstone to do an Arena run, and if you're good at Arena, you can perpetually farm gold & packs forever through the Arena. If you don't want to do that, you can always use basic cards and a handful of crafted / pulled Expert cards to competitively go all the way up the ladder to Legendary status.

    You cannot do the same thing in Infinity Wars. Decks made with just basic cards will be totally destroyed by high cost decks, and will never reach the top of the ladder.


    The Ender on
    With Love and Courage
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    Mr.SunshineMr.Sunshine Registered User regular
    I think the best way to see Infinity Wars is to watch this nice gent. He's good people and should be watched cause he's damn entertaining.

    I enjoy this game way more than Hearthstone... but I'm one of the few people in the universe that just can't get into Blizzard games. I'll play em, just can't stick with them for any length of time.

    Now if I had my real computer and not this dying craptop, I could play this game.

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    MeisterMeister Registered User regular
    edited March 2014
    The Ender wrote: »
    Plus, IW is very generous with giving you cards. You get cards for completing campaign, cards for your profile level-ups, cards from faction level-ups, cards from IP, cards from daily log-in, cards from quests (which are going to get even more rewarding with Wednesday's patch). In comparison, Hearthstone is extremely stingy.

    If IW is pay to win, then League of Legends, Hearthstone, and basically every other free to play game is pay to win.

    I don't agree with this assessment. Yes, when you start the game, it will give you a lot of cards to build basic core decks. After that initial surge of cards, though, you get very few cards for just playing games (a handful as daily rewards, full packs upon leveling up). Getting legendaries out of this system requires you to be a savvy trader or to pay money.

    By contrast, you can get enough gold in two days worth of playing Hearthstone to do an Arena run, and if you're good at Arena, you can perpetually farm gold & packs forever through the Arena. If you don't want to do that, you can always use basic cards and a handful of crafted / pulled Expert cards to competitively go all the way up the ladder to Legendary status.

    You cannot do the same thing in Infinity Wars. Decks made with just basic cards will be totally destroyed by high cost decks, and will never reach the top of the ladder.


    I am well acquainted with Hearthstone. I watched Trump's stream as he climbed the ladders with his "f2p" mage deck.

    No offense, but you seem very misinformed about Infinity Wars, and it also seems like you didn't read my posts.

    IW literally has the exact same mode as Arena. It's called "Rift", and it works the same way: you pay an entrance fee in IP, and if you're good you can perpetually farm IP & packs by only playing Rift.

    Players in IW did the exact same experiment that Trump and Reynad did. For example, Erlaya started a fresh account and reached #25 on the ladder (way higher than Reynad or Trump) within a week, without paying a cent or trading. Adorabear, the #1 player on the ladder, never spent any money on the game.

    Like I said, I've been playing for 3 days, and I have 4 legendaries already. I never paid a cent, and I haven't traded at all.

    In summary,
    Equal-footing Game Modes

    Hearthstone:
    • Draft (entrance fee required)

    Infinity Wars
    • Draft (entrance fee required)
    • Merged Deck
    • Pauper Constructed
    F2P Experiments

    Hearthstone:
    • Players have reached top ~250ish on ladder with fresh F2P accounts

    Infinity Wars:
    • Players have reach #25 on ladder with fresh F2P account within a week
    • #1 on ladder never spent money on the game

    Not to mention that, in Hearthstone you are capped on gold per day. In Infinity Wars, there is no IP cap per day. You can earn a booster pack with a guaranteed rare just by logging in and winning 3 matches.

    Objectively speaking, if Infinity Wars is P2W, then so is Hearthstone, LoL, and every other F2P game out there.

    Meister on
    3DS friend code friend code: 4485-1155-2584
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    MeisterMeister Registered User regular
    Also, it should be noted that the devs are highly receptive to player feedback. For example, they're currently working on a disenchant/crafting system, and they're also working on increasing campaign/quest rewards.

    Now see if Hearthstone devs ever consider making it easier for players to get cards without paying.

    3DS friend code friend code: 4485-1155-2584
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    MeisterMeister Registered User regular
    edited March 2014
    And if you want an example of a pauper deck that will take you far, try out this, for example: http://www.aletasarchive.com/gdeck/882.php

    It doesn't have anything above uncommon, and it's really strong. I'm pretty sure you get most, if not all of those cards from completing tutorial campaign and early faction levels, and the ones that you don't you could probably get for free in trade chat since most people have more than 3. Also note that this deck is WAY cheaper in terms of time investment than either Trump or Reynad's "F2P" decks.

    Meister on
    3DS friend code friend code: 4485-1155-2584
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    MeisterMeister Registered User regular
    Like, if you want, I can write a new OP for you. Almost everything in your OP is outdated or objectively wrong, e.g. you put "Pro: Isn't buggy at all", when in fact one of the biggest cons is that the game is buggy as shit.

    3DS friend code friend code: 4485-1155-2584
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    GarthorGarthor Registered User regular
    I would like to point out that saying "in Hearthstone you are capped on gold per day" is unbelievably disingenuous. The cap on gold per day is so high that nobody would ever reach it through normal play. You would need to log in a solid 24 hours of play mode games to reach that cap. It exists to limit people exploiting some system to gain gold, not to place a cap on normal earnings.

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    MeisterMeister Registered User regular
    I've reached the gold per day cap in Hearthstone several times, on weekends. Granted, I played a lot on those days. It's not really disingenuous, just stating a fact. In HS you're capped in how much currency you can earn in a day. In IW you're not.

    3DS friend code friend code: 4485-1155-2584
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    VeeveeVeevee WisconsinRegistered User regular
    My favorite deck I played, while not very effective (and also from early in the games steam life), was a purple deck stuffed to the gills with Death Worshipers. Get as many into the support zone as you can as quickly as you can, and hope that you get a spell that deals damage (or better yet, death) to at least one enemy. If you can get one kill before moving a large group (6 or more) of the death worshipers into defense or offense, their ability to grow from kills can snow ball so fast.

    I should get back into this. I had a ton of fun when I played it

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