This is just a thought Zer and I'm not complaining since I got my passes. Why not update the website earlier then at noon? You could always have the link on the website before they are officially on sale and if the ticket company was worth its salt they just would not have the tickets available til noon?
@abby they tried but in a way that was not functional for all. I was at my PC trying like most people to get the website loaded. My phone was next to me but I was more worried of trying to get on the website then to check Twitter. Like I said I got mine. But I was lucky. I got one of the ones I think that was re-released.
That's what bugs me, there is a wide range of relatively simple things that could have been done. They had very strong base of historical data to work with: to wit, they knew their bases would not belong to them at noontime. They could have:
-Brought in extra servers (EC2) for a couple hours.
-Had a message on the site that said "hey, our servers probably melted. Be sure to check @Official_PAX for real-time ticket info"
-Have a static, barebones website for a couple hours, to reduce server load
-Have a scheduled update of the ticket widget so manual updating at peak load is not necessary
Instead, it feels like the attitude is "we know we would sell out in a week if we only posted the link to buy tickets, ROT(D26)ed, in the Strip Search forum. We do not need to professionally handle PAX."*
I love that the "it's not that hard" comment keeps coming in for updating the website. They were trying to update the website. They could not log in to their back end to update it because it kept going down due to F5s. This is real information. I agree that it blows ass that the website wasn't updated right away, but that's the reason. Does that mean they should anticipate more load? Absolutely. But it's not as if they just "forgot" about it or thought "well let's screw these guys."
Seeing how I literally said "Updating your website isn't that hard" a couple hours ago, I should weigh in.
The PAX website was hit with, for all intents and purposes, an intentional distributed denial of service attack. PAX IT staff knew, essentially down to the second, when it would start. Updating your website when it is melting is impossible. In this day and age, updating your website when you knew it would melt in six months, is not hard. While my message was sarcastically countering hyperbole with hyperbole, that doesn't come across well over the internet. My bad.
But seriously, folks, this EC2 thang is gonna catch on one of these days. Live on the coagulated edge!
I am largely staying out of the fray.
But I would offer that they likely THOUGHT they had enough resources on board to handle the load. And either they were wrong, or something went sideways.
Just like many, many, many MMO's, at launch. They plan for the load, do everything they THINK they need to do, and then get crippled because either the load is even more than they planned for, or a piece of hardware (or software) goes dark at the exact wrong second.
Perhaps for next year, instead of the registration link going to the silly 404 of east.paxsite.com/www.google.com, have it go to https://twitter.com/Official_PAX
Now you don't have to worry about not being able to update the site since anyone clicking registration goes straight to where the info is regarding where to click to buy tickets. No more excuses about not having twitter, either, because you can access that twitter link without an account and read all the posts. I didn't have one and it worked fine last year.
This is just a thought Zer and I'm not complaining since I got my passes. Why not update the website earlier then at noon? You could always have the link on the website before they are officially on sale and if the ticket company was worth its salt they just would not have the tickets available til noon?
@abby they tried but in a way that was not functional for all. I was at my PC trying like most people to get the website loaded. My phone was next to me but I was more worried of trying to get on the website then to check Twitter. Like I said I got mine. But I was lucky. I got one of the ones I think that was re-released.
That's what bugs me, there is a wide range of relatively simple things that could have been done. They had very strong base of historical data to work with: to wit, they knew their bases would not belong to them at noontime. They could have:
-Brought in extra servers (EC2) for a couple hours.
-Had a message on the site that said "hey, our servers probably melted. Be sure to check @Official_PAX for real-time ticket info"
-Have a static, barebones website for a couple hours, to reduce server load
-Have a scheduled update of the ticket widget so manual updating at peak load is not necessary
Instead, it feels like the attitude is "we know we would sell out in a week if we only posted the link to buy tickets, ROT(D26)ed, in the Strip Search forum. We do not need to professionally handle PAX."*
*I am ticketless and bitter. YMMV.
Didn't Apple use to take their site offline before big releases to make the updates? Maybe something like that would work to allow for the site to not melt and let the PA team to do all the updates they need.
3DS FC: 3239-2323-6239
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stebuuCrabs are fucking crazy, and I hate horsesRegistered Userregular
Perhaps for next year, instead of the registration link going to the silly 404 of east.paxsite.com/www.google.com, have it go to https://twitter.com/Official_PAX
Now you don't have to worry about not being able to update the site since anyone clicking registration goes straight to where the info is regarding where to click to buy tickets. No more excuses about not having twitter, either, because you can access that twitter link without an account and read all the posts. I didn't have one and it worked fine last year.
<BLINK>. It was our last, best chance of displaying important information. It failed.
And I'd say from ~11:30am-1pm EST, just have all of east.paxsite.com route to https://twitter.com/Official_PAX. Seems like the simplest route (with the unlikely downside that if something goes wrong with twitter, supah shitstorm time)
But I would offer that they likely THOUGHT they had enough resources on board to handle the load. And either they were wrong, or something went sideways.
Just like many, many, many MMO's, at launch. They plan for the load, do everything they THINK they need to do, and then get crippled because either the load is even more than they planned for, or a piece of hardware (or software) goes dark at the exact wrong second.
Now...they have to live and learn.
I suspect that the ticket sale traffic for 2014 PAX East was not greater than the 2013 Prime traffic. They shouldn't have been surprised by the volume, unless there has been a new development in ticket bots (which is entirely plausible, but people running the ticket bots probably have the ticket URL already, or at least have khoo and pax's twitter feeds open)
Three of my four ideas could be implemented in fewer than 30 minutes. One can of red bull and you could get all three of the non-EC2 ideas implemented in 30 minutes.
The lesson of yesterday is defense in depth; aka, make sure your contingencies have contingencies.
But I would offer that they likely THOUGHT they had enough resources on board to handle the load. And either they were wrong, or something went sideways.
Just like many, many, many MMO's, at launch. They plan for the load, do everything they THINK they need to do, and then get crippled because either the load is even more than they planned for, or a piece of hardware (or software) goes dark at the exact wrong second.
Now...they have to live and learn.
I suspect that the ticket sale traffic for 2014 PAX East was not greater than the 2013 Prime traffic. They shouldn't have been surprised by the volume, unless there has been a new development in ticket bots (which is entirely plausible, but people running the ticket bots probably have the ticket URL already, or at least have khoo and pax's twitter feeds open)
Three of my four ideas could be implemented in fewer than 30 minutes. One can of red bull and you could get all three of the non-EC2 ideas implemented in 30 minutes.
The lesson of yesterday is defense in depth; aka, make sure your contingencies have contingencies.
A simple solution, that is obviously more complex or someone else would have done this:
Update the PAX Site prior to Noon. Link goes to a page that redirects to a "You're early! This page will refresh with the right link at noon!" page. This page is not hosted by PAX, but rather the ticket site.
Once noon hits, the link on the PAX Site still goes to the same page (no update needed), however that page now redirects to the correct page. People on the "You're early!" page will also get a refresh that lists the link for them to click.
Even if the redirect page could not be updated due to traffic, the initial redirect of the "You're early!" page would now reflect the correct link for anyone coming to that page after noon.
This way, the main source of info, the Pax Site, is always current. The ticketing site handles the traffic (which it's adequately set up for - I did not have a problem with accessing their site at any time).
Hey, not sure if this would be the place to ask this, but here it goes. So I ordered 3 tickets, got to the confirmation page with my receipt, and the money was taken from my account. I have not yet received a confirmation email, and my link to my receipt is 404ing it up. Has anyone had this happen? I emailed them to see if my order went through, but I have not heard back. Should I be worried?
Hey, not sure if this would be the place to ask this, but here it goes. So I ordered 3 tickets, got to the confirmation page with my receipt, and the money was taken from my account. I have not yet received a confirmation email, and my link to my receipt is 404ing it up. Has anyone had this happen? I emailed them to see if my order went through, but I have not heard back. Should I be worried?
You should call rather than email. Always the fastest response with the most clarity on the issue.
I have to admit some surprise at the people who didn't have issues with showclix... Don't get me wrong, I was lucky enough to manage to grab two sets of three 1 day passes... But I had one cart with two 3 days "time out" on me, because nothing would load. The first time I could enter any information, my timer was down to 13 seconds or so. I then had the same thing happen with another cart of 2 sets of three 1 days, before finally getting through the muck for my third cart (although I'm less than thrilled at the extra $90 I get to piss away). OnPeak was actually more reliable, in my case. Yes, it was difficult to load up, but once it loaded, I was in without any hassles. Just a general reminder that YMMV regarding any of the sites.
Perhaps for next year, instead of the registration link going to the silly 404 of east.paxsite.com/www.google.com, have it go to https://twitter.com/Official_PAX
Now you don't have to worry about not being able to update the site since anyone clicking registration goes straight to where the info is regarding where to click to buy tickets. No more excuses about not having twitter, either, because you can access that twitter link without an account and read all the posts. I didn't have one and it worked fine last year.
As someone who never uses Twitter It created a scenario where it was impossible for me to obtain a 3 day without having to buy all 3 days separately as was the only option for many people because by the time the site was up they were already. As a consumer it doesn't feel like everyone had a fair chance. Yes it is always going to be popular but with the system that is in place we have capped out on growth and practically isolated ourselves with limited availability.
As someone who never uses Twitter It created a scenario where it was impossible for me to obtain a 3 day without having to buy all 3 days separately as was the only option for many people because by the time the site was up they were already. As a consumer it doesn't feel like everyone had a fair chance. Yes it is always going to be popular but with the system that is in place we have capped out on growth and practically isolated ourselves with limited availability.
You don't have to "use" twitter to look at their Twitter page though. I check my twitter feed pretty infrequently, but I was checking twitter.com/Official_PAX several times a day over the past two weeks, even more so yesterday.
The links were also posted here in the forums. I think before they were posted on Twitter, but I could be wrong. *goes to check timestamps*
ETA: Yeah, they went up here in the forums (the OP of this thread) five minutes before Twitter, if I'm looking at the right stuff.
This is honestly the first time I have posted or even visited the forums since 2009. Yes I would have found it if I was on the forums or Twitter but I wasn't. I was on the main page.
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jaxjaggywiresSneaking up behind youRegistered Userregular
The first thing I did as soon as it was obvious that the registration pages were being hammered was watch my Twitter feed for someone to say what was up. Of course, I'm on Twitter pretty much all the time, so it's just instinct at this point...
As someone who never uses Twitter It created a scenario where it was impossible for me to obtain a 3 day without having to buy all 3 days separately as was the only option for many people because by the time the site was up they were already. As a consumer it doesn't feel like everyone had a fair chance. Yes it is always going to be popular but with the system that is in place we have capped out on growth and practically isolated ourselves with limited availability.
You don't have to "use" twitter to look at their Twitter page though. I check my twitter feed pretty infrequently, but I was checking twitter.com/Official_PAX several times a day over the past two weeks, even more so yesterday.
The links were also posted here in the forums. I think before they were posted on Twitter, but I could be wrong. *goes to check timestamps*
ETA: Yeah, they went up here in the forums (the OP of this thread) five minutes before Twitter, if I'm looking at the right stuff.
Eh. I saw them on Twitter before they shot on the forums.
Still, the website could be prepared for next time. I don't "use" twitter either but I knew to check the twitter because PAX is very twitter oriented.
PAX East 2018 4-Day Pass [X] BYOC Pass [X] Hotel Reservation [X]
This is honestly the first time I have posted or even visited the forums since 2009. Yes I would have found it if I was on the forums or Twitter but I wasn't. I was on the main page.
The main page had the news section up in the top right of the page the day before the passes went on sale. They said there that they would be on sale yesterday, so you didn't even need to visit Twitter/the forums.
I'm more upset about the whole hotel ordeal than anything.
The main page had the news section up in the top right of the page the day before the passes went on sale. They said there that they would be on sale yesterday, so you didn't even need to visit Twitter/the forums.
You don't seem to understand my point. Or seem to have ready my first post.
Off the current topic, but I really hope they change the badge design this year. Last year people were using 2012 badges to get in, since they looked almost indistinguishable to 2013 badge.
PAX East 2015:
3 Single Day Passes [x]
Hotel [x]
Flights [x]
Packed []
Excitement[x]
———————————— PAX East 12' PAX East 13' PAX East 14'
PAX East 15'
^ I highly recommend you save that $500 and wait it out. As you can see from many people here, it is still very possible to book a room at the Westin/Seaport because there are handfuls of cancellations from people who dropped their Westin/Seaport reservations. Today is only day 1 too. I am positive if you creep the site, you will be able to catch a cancellation.
$500 is totally not worth it for you to pay imo... you're ripping yourself off! xD
You also risk getting scammed (I'm sure 99% of the people on this site are honest, but you never know if someone sees your post and makes a dummy account claiming they will transfer it to you, and then take your money)
I get what you're saying; however, I know how to mitigate risk. My funds would be placed in an escrow account until the transfer was completed, and the transfer of the reservation itself would have to be done over a secure WebEX session or in-person, which largely ditches the scammer aspect.
The $500 is kind of a sunk cost, I will admit - but I'm a pretty busy guy, so stalking the OnPeak site hoping that a room comes up isn't terribly feasible for me. Even if it were an option (say, I wrote a script that detected changes to the site and auto-refreshed every 5 seconds or so), it's kinda worth the $500 just to not have to put in that effort, as I do...yanno, OK for myself.
There is, technically, a 3rd option - I could call my AMEX concierge or my Clubcorp rep and have them pull some strings to wedge me into a room and force someone else who is booked to be "walked" (I think that's the industry term), but I generally try to avoid being a dick :P.
Anyhow, nobody's taken me up on it yet, so the offer is still out there. 5 Benjis just for the privilege of giving up your slightly shorter hop count between your machine and OnPeak's servers yesterday :P.
Quintious on
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stebuuCrabs are fucking crazy, and I hate horsesRegistered Userregular
Off the current topic, but I really hope they change the badge design this year. Last year people were using 2012 badges to get in, since they looked almost indistinguishable to 2013 badge.
Off the current topic, but I really hope they change the badge design this year. Last year people were using 2012 badges to get in, since they looked almost indistinguishable to 2013 badge.
They changed it pretty heavily for aus 2013 and then continued that change into prime 2013. Very hard to mistake one badge for another.
I still think yesterday was an enormous cluster all around. Some people say it wasn't as bad as other opening registrations and this may be, but that still doesn't mean it was good. It may have been the first time East's 3-day passes sold out that quickly, but it's not the first PAX where this has happened. Why are they still having problems with this? They've run a PAX or two in the past. There are other, much larger cons that don't seem to have the endemic problems. And onPeak.. ye gods... they do this regularly as a business? How utterly pathetic.
To further clarify what I mean by problems, I do realize that people are going to be left out more frequently as demand increases. This is and will be highly disappointing. But when your failed attempt to register is accompanied by poor planning, mass confusion, and servers both crashing and timing out frequently, it feels less like you were simply unlucky and more like you were just shafted. Add to this the feeling that no one at the con really has to care about any of it because passes will sell out regardless, and you have a superb formula for angry frustration.
As far as yesterday in particular goes, I do understand that they were having problems updating their own website. What I question is why they felt the need to immediately start sales by giving out the links elsewhere rather than simply waiting. They did not announce a 12 p.m. EDT start time so I'm not sure how any of us would have known they had had to delay a little to fix the website. If the partial answer to this is that they needed people to move off of the site to relieve enough of the demand so they could fix it, then they very well could have tweeted a delay message to let people know that registration would start "sometime after one" instead of "sometime after noon." All of those same people who quit refreshing the main site in order to rush off and grab tickets would still have quit refreshing, things could have been fixed, and when sales were able to start, everyone would have had the same shot. But no... shafting some segment of the waiting customer base was deemed perfectly acceptable. This, I think, was probably the most disappointing aspect of it all.
"I will participate in the game. It's a wonderful, wonderful opera, except that it hurts." - Joseph Campbell
This will be the first year I don't get to see PAX for all three days. I could have bought three single day passes but I could not justify paying almost double the cost for the same benefits as a three day pass. My group of 9 will be there Fri and Sat. We will use Sun to sleep in and chill around Boston.
I do have a few gripes though.
The pass link should not have been posted on twitter before the main site updated..The site should have been updated and a twitter announcement to announce passes now available. I really feel that it created an unfair advantage for people not using twitter.
Why are Single Pass holders literally taken advantage of.
Some people may not be able to go all three days. Going for two days on single passes is more expensive then a 3 day pass...might as well just buy the 3 day..
They should either
A- Sell only single day passes..You buy however many passes for the days you need to go.
B- Single days passes should be cheaper and equal the price of 3 day pass combined. 25 dollars each.
They are pretty obviously moving towards (A). Which is fine.
I agree the pricing on 3-day badges is too low relative to 1-day. Or vice versa, obviously.
In response to the other post, it's true that they don't "have to" care , because it will sell out regardless. But if you think they DON'T care, you are mistaken. They pretty obviously do. Doesn't mean they won't screw up, but they definitely care.
This will be the first year I don't get to see PAX for all three days. I could have bought three single day passes but I could not justify paying almost double the cost for the same benefits as a three day pass. My group of 9 will be there Fri and Sat. We will use Sun to sleep in and chill around Boston.
I do have a few gripes though.
The pass link should not have been posted on twitter before the main site updated..The site should have been updated and a twitter announcement to announce passes now available. I really feel that it created an unfair advantage for people not using twitter.
Why are Single Pass holders literally taken advantage of.
Some people may not be able to go all three days. Going for two days on single passes is more expensive then a 3 day pass...might as well just buy the 3 day..
They should either
A- Sell only single day passes..You buy however many passes for the days you need to go.
B- Single days passes should be cheaper and equal the price of 3 day pass combined. 25 dollars each.
I got my 3 day passes even though i might not stay all of Sunday but Price played a big factor
Why are Single Pass holders literally taken advantage of.
Some people may not be able to go all three days. Going for two days on single passes is more expensive then a 3 day pass...might as well just buy the 3 day..
They should either
A- Sell only single day passes..You buy however many passes for the days you need to go.
B- Single days passes should be cheaper and equal the price of 3 day pass combined. 25 dollars each.
To me the price difference is just like what Kickstarters does. It's a perk for getting the passes first. *shrug*
Also...It is their event. They can price it however they like. Would you be happier if they just changed the 3 day to $120? Probably not.
It's a moot point as there will always be people who are happy to pay that price and more to be able to go to PAX as it's an amazing event.
In response to the other post, it's true that they don't "have to" care , because it will sell out regardless. But if you think they DON'T care, you are mistaken. They pretty obviously do. Doesn't mean they won't screw up, but they definitely care.
That was my statement. I won't go into why I feel that way just for the heck of it, but I am quite honestly interested to know why you feel differently. This isn't a facetious question, either. I've been to PAX once and I've only been on these forums since the first of the year, so I don't have a ton of familiarity with Penny Arcade. What have you seen that makes you think they definitely care?
"I will participate in the game. It's a wonderful, wonderful opera, except that it hurts." - Joseph Campbell
In response to the other post, it's true that they don't "have to" care , because it will sell out regardless. But if you think they DON'T care, you are mistaken. They pretty obviously do. Doesn't mean they won't screw up, but they definitely care.
That was my statement. I won't go into why I feel that way just for the heck of it, but I am quite honestly interested to know why you feel differently. This isn't a facetious question, either. I've been to PAX once and I've only been on these forums since the first of the year, so I don't have a ton of familiarity with Penny Arcade. What have you seen that makes you think they definitely care?
@Delaney, I understand your frustration as I went through it for PAX Prime 2013. Tickets went so fast that I was forced to use 3rd party. Were you able to secure single day passes instead for East 2014? They're still available and as frustrating as the registration was I still suggest getting single days.
You seem to be quite upset and I was that upset for Prime. But I managed to find an alternative and my badges were legit (had them checked). If you really want to go I suggest to quickly grab Fri/Sun, and there are legitimate ways to grab a sat. I'm not sure how you feel about paying a higher price but it sounds like you really want to go. To me I looked at the total cost of my trip, and overall hotel is the highest percentage of the trip. As a result paying extra for the badges felt worth it to me as it still was a smaller percentage of the trip than the hotel.
Just a friendly suggestion and I hope you do find a way to go.
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pilferkMaster of UnlockingCTRegistered Userregular
As far as yesterday in particular goes, I do understand that they were having problems updating their own website. What I question is why they felt the need to immediately start sales by giving out the links elsewhere rather than simply waiting. They did not announce a 12 p.m. EDT start time so I'm not sure how any of us would have known they had had to delay a little to fix the website. If the partial answer to this is that they needed people to move off of the site to relieve enough of the demand so they could fix it, then they very well could have tweeted a delay message to let people know that registration would start "sometime after one" instead of "sometime after noon." All of those same people who quit refreshing the main site in order to rush off and grab tickets would still have quit refreshing, things could have been fixed, and when sales were able to start, everyone would have had the same shot. But no... shafting some segment of the waiting customer base was deemed perfectly acceptable. This, I think, was probably the most disappointing aspect of it all.
I can take a crack at that one:
Because showclix brought the ticket sale site live at about noon. And, if pa hadn't announced it, and pointed to it, "someone" would have found it anyway. And would have shared with a small group of friends. The circle would have spun out until it got posted here, but likely by then the damage would have been done.
Witness the onpeak debacle of last year...
And people would still be ticked.
This way, at least pa was able to get it out to the public, in some fashion, and get out ahead of it. Maybe not exactly the way people wanted but they were damned if they did, damned if they didn't.
Agree or not, but I think it's likely that was their logic.
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pilferkMaster of UnlockingCTRegistered Userregular
They are pretty obviously moving towards (A). Which is fine.
I agree the pricing on 3-day badges is too low relative to 1-day. Or vice versa, obviously.
In response to the other post, it's true that they don't "have to" care , because it will sell out regardless. But if you think they DON'T care, you are mistaken. They pretty obviously do. Doesn't mean they won't screw up, but they definitely care.
I think they nailed it last year...a 3 day for the same price as two single days. Because it offloads demand a bit.
This year, if you were attending 2 days, you still wanted a 3 day, because it saved you $5...even if you had no intention of using it on, say, Friday or Sunday.
Last year, if you were skipping Friday or Sunday ( or sat, I guess), you could just buy 2 single days and not be spending any more. Thus...you would think...slighlt lower demand for the 3 days.
Ultimately, given the speed of the sell outs, it might not have made a ton of difference. But it's interesting to note, all the same.
@Delaney, I understand your frustration as I went through it for PAX Prime 2013. Tickets went so fast that I was forced to use 3rd party. Were you able to secure single day passes instead for East 2014? They're still available and as frustrating as the registration was I still suggest getting single days.
You seem to be quite upset and I was that upset for Prime. But I managed to find an alternative and my badges were legit (had them checked). If you really want to go I suggest to quickly grab Fri/Sun, and there are legitimate ways to grab a sat. I'm not sure how you feel about paying a higher price but it sounds like you really want to go. To me I looked at the total cost of my trip, and overall hotel is the highest percentage of the trip. As a result paying extra for the badges felt worth it to me as it still was a smaller percentage of the trip than the hotel.
Just a friendly suggestion and I hope you do find a way to go.
Thank you for your post. I should start a reply by saying that I am going to Boston and will be at PAX all three days, which I realize puts me "ahead" of many. After several frustrating attempts during which I was confusingly bounced around between checkout pages that would error, randomly forced to start over, and hoping that my credit card would finally be processed without timing out (and starting yet another chain of absurdity), I did obtain day passes. I'm not really pleased that I essentially was forced to spend the extra money since I had no chance at three day passes before they were sold out, though. Bad luck would have been one thing, not being given any opportunity while closely following the official site is another.
I guess that's what it comes down to at this point. I asked my question of @mcdermott quite honestly. How I am treated matters to me. Yesterday, I don't think that I or many others, as potential PAX attendees and PA customers, were treated very well. Too many companies (virtually all of them in my opinion) value making the extra buck more than they value treating people well; it's an endemic attitude in society these days. Worse, we're getting used to it and way too many people now accept being treated poorly in order to get something they want.
What I experienced yesterday was exactly in line with this. A prevailing attitude I saw on the forums was, "Want to go to PAX? Registration is going to suck, but..." I saw posts yesterday along the lines of "now the pain is over, but at least I can go." I submitted to it, too. Getting passes and hotel reservations was way beyond frustrating and in some cases, pointlessly so. And yes, the pointless part does anger me. At least in a few months, when it's really time to get excited about PAX East, this will quite likely have faded.
In the meantime as I'm trying to forget about yesterday's fiasco, if I'm missing something, then I really do want to know. Pointless annoyance is even worse when it's a result of callousness. A statement was made that indicated someone might have a reason to believe better of our hosts than I do, and I wanted to find out what it was.
I hope you have a great time in Boston, and thanks again for the suggestion.
"I will participate in the game. It's a wonderful, wonderful opera, except that it hurts." - Joseph Campbell
In response to the other post, it's true that they don't "have to" care , because it will sell out regardless. But if you think they DON'T care, you are mistaken. They pretty obviously do. Doesn't mean they won't screw up, but they definitely care.
That was my statement. I won't go into why I feel that way just for the heck of it, but I am quite honestly interested to know why you feel differently. This isn't a facetious question, either. I've been to PAX once and I've only been on these forums since the first of the year, so I don't have a ton of familiarity with Penny Arcade. What have you seen that makes you think they definitely care?
Every change they've made thus far, just looking at registration alone, has been in an attempt to help fans and incorporate feedback.
Like, I don't want to spend an hour typing on my phone, so I'll give just ONE example. Notice they announced ahead of time roughly when badges would go on sale? They didn't used to, remember? But that has been the number one complaint, at least among things within their power. They thought keeping it "secret" was better. But this year, due to community demand, they tried it.
Know why?
Because they care.
They may FAIL at making things go better. But they TRY. Because they give a shit. And even whether or not they fail is arguable. Demand goes up, and is further compressed in time, each year. Twice a year. So we have no idea how much worse it might actually be if, say, they just did the same shit today they did back in '09 or '10.
Edit: I will say that badges still being cheaper for a three day than two one days is careless, somebody dropped the ball there. Didn't notice how Prime went on that front, since four day badges sold out in like a minute (relative to the tweet).
Also, seeing everything the core PA staff have written or said on the subject, or seen how they've tried to incorporate feedback from the community into the con...yeah, they care. It upsets me a bit when people say they don't.
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That's what bugs me, there is a wide range of relatively simple things that could have been done. They had very strong base of historical data to work with: to wit, they knew their bases would not belong to them at noontime. They could have:
-Brought in extra servers (EC2) for a couple hours.
-Had a message on the site that said "hey, our servers probably melted. Be sure to check @Official_PAX for real-time ticket info"
-Have a static, barebones website for a couple hours, to reduce server load
-Have a scheduled update of the ticket widget so manual updating at peak load is not necessary
Instead, it feels like the attitude is "we know we would sell out in a week if we only posted the link to buy tickets, ROT(D26)ed, in the Strip Search forum. We do not need to professionally handle PAX."*
*I am ticketless and bitter. YMMV.
I am largely staying out of the fray.
But I would offer that they likely THOUGHT they had enough resources on board to handle the load. And either they were wrong, or something went sideways.
Just like many, many, many MMO's, at launch. They plan for the load, do everything they THINK they need to do, and then get crippled because either the load is even more than they planned for, or a piece of hardware (or software) goes dark at the exact wrong second.
Now...they have to live and learn.
Now you don't have to worry about not being able to update the site since anyone clicking registration goes straight to where the info is regarding where to click to buy tickets. No more excuses about not having twitter, either, because you can access that twitter link without an account and read all the posts. I didn't have one and it worked fine last year.
Didn't Apple use to take their site offline before big releases to make the updates? Maybe something like that would work to allow for the site to not melt and let the PA team to do all the updates they need.
<BLINK>. It was our last, best chance of displaying important information. It failed.
And I'd say from ~11:30am-1pm EST, just have all of east.paxsite.com route to https://twitter.com/Official_PAX. Seems like the simplest route (with the unlikely downside that if something goes wrong with twitter, supah shitstorm time)
I suspect that the ticket sale traffic for 2014 PAX East was not greater than the 2013 Prime traffic. They shouldn't have been surprised by the volume, unless there has been a new development in ticket bots (which is entirely plausible, but people running the ticket bots probably have the ticket URL already, or at least have khoo and pax's twitter feeds open)
Three of my four ideas could be implemented in fewer than 30 minutes. One can of red bull and you could get all three of the non-EC2 ideas implemented in 30 minutes.
The lesson of yesterday is defense in depth; aka, make sure your contingencies have contingencies.
too right.
Update the PAX Site prior to Noon. Link goes to a page that redirects to a "You're early! This page will refresh with the right link at noon!" page. This page is not hosted by PAX, but rather the ticket site.
Once noon hits, the link on the PAX Site still goes to the same page (no update needed), however that page now redirects to the correct page. People on the "You're early!" page will also get a refresh that lists the link for them to click.
Even if the redirect page could not be updated due to traffic, the initial redirect of the "You're early!" page would now reflect the correct link for anyone coming to that page after noon.
This way, the main source of info, the Pax Site, is always current. The ticketing site handles the traffic (which it's adequately set up for - I did not have a problem with accessing their site at any time).
Everyone wins.
You should call rather than email. Always the fastest response with the most clarity on the issue.
Try showclix 1-888-71-TICKETS (84253)
PSN/Steam: mindflare77
As someone who never uses Twitter It created a scenario where it was impossible for me to obtain a 3 day without having to buy all 3 days separately as was the only option for many people because by the time the site was up they were already. As a consumer it doesn't feel like everyone had a fair chance. Yes it is always going to be popular but with the system that is in place we have capped out on growth and practically isolated ourselves with limited availability.
You don't have to "use" twitter to look at their Twitter page though. I check my twitter feed pretty infrequently, but I was checking twitter.com/Official_PAX several times a day over the past two weeks, even more so yesterday.
The links were also posted here in the forums. I think before they were posted on Twitter, but I could be wrong. *goes to check timestamps*
ETA: Yeah, they went up here in the forums (the OP of this thread) five minutes before Twitter, if I'm looking at the right stuff.
Still, the website could be prepared for next time. I don't "use" twitter either but I knew to check the twitter because PAX is very twitter oriented.
PAX East 2018 4-Day Pass [X] BYOC Pass [X] Hotel Reservation [X]
See y'all at PAX East 2018!
The main page had the news section up in the top right of the page the day before the passes went on sale. They said there that they would be on sale yesterday, so you didn't even need to visit Twitter/the forums.
I'm more upset about the whole hotel ordeal than anything.
You don't seem to understand my point. Or seem to have ready my first post.
3 Single Day Passes [x]
Hotel [x]
Flights [x]
Packed []
Excitement[x]
————————————
PAX East 12'
PAX East 13'
PAX East 14'
PAX East 15'
I get what you're saying; however, I know how to mitigate risk. My funds would be placed in an escrow account until the transfer was completed, and the transfer of the reservation itself would have to be done over a secure WebEX session or in-person, which largely ditches the scammer aspect.
The $500 is kind of a sunk cost, I will admit - but I'm a pretty busy guy, so stalking the OnPeak site hoping that a room comes up isn't terribly feasible for me. Even if it were an option (say, I wrote a script that detected changes to the site and auto-refreshed every 5 seconds or so), it's kinda worth the $500 just to not have to put in that effort, as I do...yanno, OK for myself.
There is, technically, a 3rd option - I could call my AMEX concierge or my Clubcorp rep and have them pull some strings to wedge me into a room and force someone else who is booked to be "walked" (I think that's the industry term), but I generally try to avoid being a dick :P.
Anyhow, nobody's taken me up on it yet, so the offer is still out there. 5 Benjis just for the privilege of giving up your slightly shorter hop count between your machine and OnPeak's servers yesterday :P.
PLAN B!
I still think yesterday was an enormous cluster all around. Some people say it wasn't as bad as other opening registrations and this may be, but that still doesn't mean it was good. It may have been the first time East's 3-day passes sold out that quickly, but it's not the first PAX where this has happened. Why are they still having problems with this? They've run a PAX or two in the past. There are other, much larger cons that don't seem to have the endemic problems. And onPeak.. ye gods... they do this regularly as a business? How utterly pathetic.
To further clarify what I mean by problems, I do realize that people are going to be left out more frequently as demand increases. This is and will be highly disappointing. But when your failed attempt to register is accompanied by poor planning, mass confusion, and servers both crashing and timing out frequently, it feels less like you were simply unlucky and more like you were just shafted. Add to this the feeling that no one at the con really has to care about any of it because passes will sell out regardless, and you have a superb formula for angry frustration.
As far as yesterday in particular goes, I do understand that they were having problems updating their own website. What I question is why they felt the need to immediately start sales by giving out the links elsewhere rather than simply waiting. They did not announce a 12 p.m. EDT start time so I'm not sure how any of us would have known they had had to delay a little to fix the website. If the partial answer to this is that they needed people to move off of the site to relieve enough of the demand so they could fix it, then they very well could have tweeted a delay message to let people know that registration would start "sometime after one" instead of "sometime after noon." All of those same people who quit refreshing the main site in order to rush off and grab tickets would still have quit refreshing, things could have been fixed, and when sales were able to start, everyone would have had the same shot. But no... shafting some segment of the waiting customer base was deemed perfectly acceptable. This, I think, was probably the most disappointing aspect of it all.
I do have a few gripes though.
The pass link should not have been posted on twitter before the main site updated..The site should have been updated and a twitter announcement to announce passes now available. I really feel that it created an unfair advantage for people not using twitter.
Why are Single Pass holders literally taken advantage of.
Some people may not be able to go all three days. Going for two days on single passes is more expensive then a 3 day pass...might as well just buy the 3 day..
They should either
A- Sell only single day passes..You buy however many passes for the days you need to go.
B- Single days passes should be cheaper and equal the price of 3 day pass combined. 25 dollars each.
I agree the pricing on 3-day badges is too low relative to 1-day. Or vice versa, obviously.
In response to the other post, it's true that they don't "have to" care , because it will sell out regardless. But if you think they DON'T care, you are mistaken. They pretty obviously do. Doesn't mean they won't screw up, but they definitely care.
To me the price difference is just like what Kickstarters does. It's a perk for getting the passes first. *shrug*
Also...It is their event. They can price it however they like. Would you be happier if they just changed the 3 day to $120? Probably not.
It's a moot point as there will always be people who are happy to pay that price and more to be able to go to PAX as it's an amazing event.
That was my statement. I won't go into why I feel that way just for the heck of it, but I am quite honestly interested to know why you feel differently. This isn't a facetious question, either. I've been to PAX once and I've only been on these forums since the first of the year, so I don't have a ton of familiarity with Penny Arcade. What have you seen that makes you think they definitely care?
@Delaney, I understand your frustration as I went through it for PAX Prime 2013. Tickets went so fast that I was forced to use 3rd party. Were you able to secure single day passes instead for East 2014? They're still available and as frustrating as the registration was I still suggest getting single days.
You seem to be quite upset and I was that upset for Prime. But I managed to find an alternative and my badges were legit (had them checked). If you really want to go I suggest to quickly grab Fri/Sun, and there are legitimate ways to grab a sat. I'm not sure how you feel about paying a higher price but it sounds like you really want to go. To me I looked at the total cost of my trip, and overall hotel is the highest percentage of the trip. As a result paying extra for the badges felt worth it to me as it still was a smaller percentage of the trip than the hotel.
Just a friendly suggestion and I hope you do find a way to go.
I can take a crack at that one:
Because showclix brought the ticket sale site live at about noon. And, if pa hadn't announced it, and pointed to it, "someone" would have found it anyway. And would have shared with a small group of friends. The circle would have spun out until it got posted here, but likely by then the damage would have been done.
Witness the onpeak debacle of last year...
And people would still be ticked.
This way, at least pa was able to get it out to the public, in some fashion, and get out ahead of it. Maybe not exactly the way people wanted but they were damned if they did, damned if they didn't.
Agree or not, but I think it's likely that was their logic.
I think they nailed it last year...a 3 day for the same price as two single days. Because it offloads demand a bit.
This year, if you were attending 2 days, you still wanted a 3 day, because it saved you $5...even if you had no intention of using it on, say, Friday or Sunday.
Last year, if you were skipping Friday or Sunday ( or sat, I guess), you could just buy 2 single days and not be spending any more. Thus...you would think...slighlt lower demand for the 3 days.
Ultimately, given the speed of the sell outs, it might not have made a ton of difference. But it's interesting to note, all the same.
Thank you for your post. I should start a reply by saying that I am going to Boston and will be at PAX all three days, which I realize puts me "ahead" of many. After several frustrating attempts during which I was confusingly bounced around between checkout pages that would error, randomly forced to start over, and hoping that my credit card would finally be processed without timing out (and starting yet another chain of absurdity), I did obtain day passes. I'm not really pleased that I essentially was forced to spend the extra money since I had no chance at three day passes before they were sold out, though. Bad luck would have been one thing, not being given any opportunity while closely following the official site is another.
I guess that's what it comes down to at this point. I asked my question of @mcdermott quite honestly. How I am treated matters to me. Yesterday, I don't think that I or many others, as potential PAX attendees and PA customers, were treated very well. Too many companies (virtually all of them in my opinion) value making the extra buck more than they value treating people well; it's an endemic attitude in society these days. Worse, we're getting used to it and way too many people now accept being treated poorly in order to get something they want.
What I experienced yesterday was exactly in line with this. A prevailing attitude I saw on the forums was, "Want to go to PAX? Registration is going to suck, but..." I saw posts yesterday along the lines of "now the pain is over, but at least I can go." I submitted to it, too. Getting passes and hotel reservations was way beyond frustrating and in some cases, pointlessly so. And yes, the pointless part does anger me. At least in a few months, when it's really time to get excited about PAX East, this will quite likely have faded.
In the meantime as I'm trying to forget about yesterday's fiasco, if I'm missing something, then I really do want to know. Pointless annoyance is even worse when it's a result of callousness. A statement was made that indicated someone might have a reason to believe better of our hosts than I do, and I wanted to find out what it was.
I hope you have a great time in Boston, and thanks again for the suggestion.
Every change they've made thus far, just looking at registration alone, has been in an attempt to help fans and incorporate feedback.
Like, I don't want to spend an hour typing on my phone, so I'll give just ONE example. Notice they announced ahead of time roughly when badges would go on sale? They didn't used to, remember? But that has been the number one complaint, at least among things within their power. They thought keeping it "secret" was better. But this year, due to community demand, they tried it.
Know why?
Because they care.
They may FAIL at making things go better. But they TRY. Because they give a shit. And even whether or not they fail is arguable. Demand goes up, and is further compressed in time, each year. Twice a year. So we have no idea how much worse it might actually be if, say, they just did the same shit today they did back in '09 or '10.
Edit: I will say that badges still being cheaper for a three day than two one days is careless, somebody dropped the ball there. Didn't notice how Prime went on that front, since four day badges sold out in like a minute (relative to the tweet).
But obviously your frustrations are valid.