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Maybe somewhere on this internet, he can find somewhere he can debate about it.
And then there will be discourse.
not if the thread is just full of people screaming in anger at shit they know fuck all about, though
those are just linkfests of outrage-porn
you might notice the trend that threads that have multiple "editions" and keep having to iterate into new threads aren't really debates, they're circle-jerks about things the people in them want to yak about
when that's TV shows and sports and shit, that's fine. D&D has a bunch of those
when it's something like "police abuse" or (until the rules specifically forbade it) religion or feminism, it's just outrage-porn
i'm tired of it!
0
surrealitychecklonely, but not unloveddreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered Userregular
Huh, I guess things like the Police and Criminal Evidence Act 1984 for the UK are potentially interesting discussion points, formalising or even codifying, in detail what police should do during arrest, detention, search, taking if samples, interview and all the attendent rights to legal advice.Now this is only a UK thing, but by all accounts it had a revolutionary effect on UK policing in terms of interaction with suspects. Although only @leitner probably knows enough to talk about it usefully
Pony, it sounds like you just want discourse instead of debate.
Cause all your fine topics are just things people have subjective opinions about.
Which is fine and all, but it does kind of eliminate any real discussion over a topic a person cares about.
Also feminism is just outrage porn is an insane position yo.
Actually I would prefer people could actually support their arguments and debate about what they feel and actually argue like adults. That isn't what happens in say, the "Cops Gone Wild" thread because it's an anger circlejerk about how awful cops are without accurately identifying the underlying causes for the news stories they link to (like in broader social/cultural senses beyond "That guy was a shit-heel") and it just goes on and on in multiple iterations.
Periodically I pop into those threads and read them to see if they change at all or if there's anyone making reasonable points. Sometimes, yes, but mostly no and they generally are ignored when they do happen. Which is exactly what D&D's threads about feminism and religion tend to be like (D&D's religion threads were so god damn bad they have their own special rule).
I'm a little tired of it!
Also, I didn't say feminism is just outrage porn. That's you pulling a Cambiata on my post. D&D's threads about feminism, however, tend to be.
0
Powerpuppiesdrinking coffee in themountain cabinRegistered Userregular
Sometimes I think my friends and I just go in circles.
Me:
"The rationale-based approach no doubt has important limitations, and it is likely to inspire three main lines of criticism. Some will argue that there is a danger of projecting Western analytical categories onto the complex and idiosyncratic phenomenon of Islamism. The underlying assumption of this argument is that Islamism is best understood through the terms and categories used by the Islamists themselves. This point is valid to some extent, because some Western commentators have indeed tended to ignore the study of Islamist discourse and make prejudiced assumptions about the motivations of Islamist actors.
However, taken to its logical conclusion, this argument leads to essentialism and exempts military Islamism from social scientific scrutiny. The assumption that political actors can only be analysed using concepts employed by the actors themselves is a flawed one. Analytical categories in the social sciences are not made to please the actors, but to accurately represent observable and discrete phenomena so that one can construct theories with universal and predictive value. If the concepts and categories are clearly defined, rooted in observable behavior and constructed with an acute awareness of relevant cultural specificities, then their Western origin is irrelevant."
(Hegghammer 2009)
Friend #1:
his thought is incomplete. you need to ensure that european analytical categories are exhausted by islamism and there is not a shred of left-over criteria from the original category which we must then force islamism to satisfy in order to make it comprehensible to us. this is rarely the case. the glaring fallacy in his thinking is that good social scientific scrutiny must needs include the parochial terms of western theory in order to be so, which is the embarrassing but characteristic hallmark of hegghammer's french training
Friend #2:
Friend #1 really is right here. That guys defense of his approach, save his concession to the contrary, is saved only by sophosticated diction, if anything. That argument is intellually lazy and deliberately one-dimensional. In a phrase, grow up.
Me:
The context of the article is that the study specifically of militant Islamism -- ie. the use of Islamist discourse to legitimate political violence -- is inhibited by extremely vague terminology that doesn't actually tell us anything. He specifically deconstructs the terms "Salafi," "Jihadi," and "Takfiri" to show that, because they're so broad and used so liberally, that they're basically devoid of any descriptive value to a researcher. Calling someone a Salafi -- or them calling themselves one -- basically tells you nothing about their political programme or preferences.
If anyone is being "intellectually lazy," it's someone who insists that every single case of anything ever is an isolated phenomenon that can only be understood as a special, unique snowflake that is completely closed to comparative assessment or scrutiny; that's a facile undergrad philosophy seminar point.
At least this guy has SOME kind of comparative typology, even if it doesn't capture every possible permutation of a single core phenomenon -- political actors using Islamist discourse to (with or without violence) promote a specific worldview/agenda.
so you quoted a guy who pointed out that it's preposterous to say that Islamism can only be understood using concepts developed by Islamists and your friends responded that it's stupid to say they can only be understood using concepts not developed by Islamists, and your response is that the terms developed by Islamists suck, and at least this guy is trying to develop good terms?
Seems obvious that it doesn't matter at all who developed a concept. The last line of your quote is the only one that matters. The important thing is to develop concepts and categories that the three of you agree are clearly defined, rooted in observable behavior, and that don't either fetishize Islamic culture and dismiss all Western terms or ignore Islamic culture and assume the supremacy of traditional Western thought.
I don't think Cops are shittier people than, say, fast food workers. It's just that a shitty cop can really make your life shitty while a shitty fast food worker will mess up your $8 order of food
+4
CindersWhose sails were black when it was windyRegistered Userregular
Pony, it sounds like you just want discourse instead of debate.
Cause all your fine topics are just things people have subjective opinions about.
Which is fine and all, but it does kind of eliminate any real discussion over a topic a person cares about.
Also feminism is just outrage porn is an insane position yo.
Actually I would prefer people could actually support their arguments and debate about what they feel and actually argue like adults. That isn't what happens in say, the "Cops Gone Wild" thread because it's an anger circlejerk about how awful cops are without accurately identifying the underlying causes for the news stories they link to (like in broader social/cultural senses beyond "That guy was a shit-heel") and it just goes on and on in multiple iterations.
Periodically I pop into those threads and read them to see if they change at all or if there's anyone making reasonable points. Sometimes, yes, but mostly no and they generally are ignored when they do happen. Which is exactly what D&D's threads about feminism and religion tend to be like (D&D's religion threads were so god damn bad they have their own special rule).
I'm a little tired of it!
Also, I didn't say feminism is just outrage porn. That's you pulling a Cambiata on my post. D&D's threads about feminism, however, tend to be.
Fair enough. I misread part of your post, and for that I am sorry. I think part of your complaints are kind of tied to the medium of communication though. The lack of any direct human interaction makes it extremely easy to misinterpret what someone is saying. Add in that people drop in and out of the discussion kind of keeps everything moving circular. Any time that you actually do see some progress, either a jackass comes in to stir the pot, or someone who hasn't read the rest of the discussion decides to put forward their two cents and everything starts over.
I don't think Cops are shittier people than, say, fast food workers. It's just that a shitty cop can really make your life shitty while a shitty fast food worker will mess up your $8 order of food
There's truth to that, but there's also truth to the fact that in a lot of places there's really heinous police cultures. Like, the culture underlying the operation of the force and the way the officers interact with each other and the public in a lot of places (especially in some particularly glaring parts of the US) is enormously fucked up.
And shitty cultures make shitty people. Even if someone starts out a good person the grinder of a shitty culture is just going to wear them down into being just as shit. Some rise above it, but they become the outstanding minority.
The solution is to identify what and where the poisonous cultural elements are, where they stem from, and figure out solutions to them. A lot of the people in the "Cops Gone Wild" thread aren't interested in doing that, they're interested in saying things like "Being a cop is a rapist's wet dream".
Pony, it sounds like you just want discourse instead of debate.
Cause all your fine topics are just things people have subjective opinions about.
Which is fine and all, but it does kind of eliminate any real discussion over a topic a person cares about.
Also feminism is just outrage porn is an insane position yo.
Actually I would prefer people could actually support their arguments and debate about what they feel and actually argue like adults. That isn't what happens in say, the "Cops Gone Wild" thread because it's an anger circlejerk about how awful cops are without accurately identifying the underlying causes for the news stories they link to (like in broader social/cultural senses beyond "That guy was a shit-heel") and it just goes on and on in multiple iterations.
Periodically I pop into those threads and read them to see if they change at all or if there's anyone making reasonable points. Sometimes, yes, but mostly no and they generally are ignored when they do happen. Which is exactly what D&D's threads about feminism and religion tend to be like (D&D's religion threads were so god damn bad they have their own special rule).
I'm a little tired of it!
Also, I didn't say feminism is just outrage porn. That's you pulling a Cambiata on my post. D&D's threads about feminism, however, tend to be.
Fair enough. I misread part of your post, and for that I am sorry. I think part of your complaints are kind of tied to the medium of communication though. The lack of any direct human interaction makes it extremely easy to misinterpret what someone is saying. Add in that people drop in and out of the discussion kind of keeps everything moving circular. Any time that you actually do see some progress, either a jackass comes in to stir the pot, or someone who hasn't read the rest of the discussion decides to put forward their two cents and everything starts over.
I think in this case you should try reading the "Cops Gone Wild" thread to see just how bad it is. What you're talking about is a real problem, but... this is sort of another problem entirely.
0
TL DRNot at all confident in his reflexive opinions of thingsRegistered Userregular
So I don't game much any more
but I installed Path of Exile and
well that sure was 6 hours ago (level 15, Shadow OP fyi hth)
+4
TL DRNot at all confident in his reflexive opinions of thingsRegistered Userregular
I don't know if all the characters are like this, but it seems really easy
like, the only thing I do better than single-target DPS is AOE DPS and I can dash around and AOE freeze and it's just so good
I don't know if all the characters are like this, but it seems really easy
like, the only thing I do better than single-target DPS is AOE DPS and I can dash around and AOE freeze and it's just so good
I murderize the shit out of everything, too, as a ranger
some bosses have been a bit of a challenge but they've been solved by "I can stand still without dying now - spam the shit out of my lingering damage attacks then run around some more"
Posts
so post on the internet about it, why don't you
Maybe somewhere on this internet, he can find somewhere he can debate about it.
And then there will be discourse.
Related
Nobody can eat 50 eggs.
But not here
not if the thread is just full of people screaming in anger at shit they know fuck all about, though
those are just linkfests of outrage-porn
you might notice the trend that threads that have multiple "editions" and keep having to iterate into new threads aren't really debates, they're circle-jerks about things the people in them want to yak about
when that's TV shows and sports and shit, that's fine. D&D has a bunch of those
when it's something like "police abuse" or (until the rules specifically forbade it) religion or feminism, it's just outrage-porn
i'm tired of it!
luckily i prepared 4 dis
Because sometimes I want to do that.
A You Damn Kids button?
I'd like that.
"The uploader has not made this video available in your country."
I don't understand. Is this how it feels to be a European?
Cause all your fine topics are just things people have subjective opinions about.
Which is fine and all, but it does kind of eliminate any real discussion over a topic a person cares about.
Also feminism is just outrage porn is an insane position yo.
No, 1986! That is when Thrash Metal was at its best
Actually I would prefer people could actually support their arguments and debate about what they feel and actually argue like adults. That isn't what happens in say, the "Cops Gone Wild" thread because it's an anger circlejerk about how awful cops are without accurately identifying the underlying causes for the news stories they link to (like in broader social/cultural senses beyond "That guy was a shit-heel") and it just goes on and on in multiple iterations.
Periodically I pop into those threads and read them to see if they change at all or if there's anyone making reasonable points. Sometimes, yes, but mostly no and they generally are ignored when they do happen. Which is exactly what D&D's threads about feminism and religion tend to be like (D&D's religion threads were so god damn bad they have their own special rule).
I'm a little tired of it!
Also, I didn't say feminism is just outrage porn. That's you pulling a Cambiata on my post. D&D's threads about feminism, however, tend to be.
so you quoted a guy who pointed out that it's preposterous to say that Islamism can only be understood using concepts developed by Islamists and your friends responded that it's stupid to say they can only be understood using concepts not developed by Islamists, and your response is that the terms developed by Islamists suck, and at least this guy is trying to develop good terms?
Seems obvious that it doesn't matter at all who developed a concept. The last line of your quote is the only one that matters. The important thing is to develop concepts and categories that the three of you agree are clearly defined, rooted in observable behavior, and that don't either fetishize Islamic culture and dismiss all Western terms or ignore Islamic culture and assume the supremacy of traditional Western thought.
Fair enough. I misread part of your post, and for that I am sorry. I think part of your complaints are kind of tied to the medium of communication though. The lack of any direct human interaction makes it extremely easy to misinterpret what someone is saying. Add in that people drop in and out of the discussion kind of keeps everything moving circular. Any time that you actually do see some progress, either a jackass comes in to stir the pot, or someone who hasn't read the rest of the discussion decides to put forward their two cents and everything starts over.
There's truth to that, but there's also truth to the fact that in a lot of places there's really heinous police cultures. Like, the culture underlying the operation of the force and the way the officers interact with each other and the public in a lot of places (especially in some particularly glaring parts of the US) is enormously fucked up.
And shitty cultures make shitty people. Even if someone starts out a good person the grinder of a shitty culture is just going to wear them down into being just as shit. Some rise above it, but they become the outstanding minority.
The solution is to identify what and where the poisonous cultural elements are, where they stem from, and figure out solutions to them. A lot of the people in the "Cops Gone Wild" thread aren't interested in doing that, they're interested in saying things like "Being a cop is a rapist's wet dream".
or, like, it's like the setting is a great big soup, and a story is kind of starting to congeal out of it.
I think in this case you should try reading the "Cops Gone Wild" thread to see just how bad it is. What you're talking about is a real problem, but... this is sort of another problem entirely.
but I installed Path of Exile and
well that sure was 6 hours ago
like, the only thing I do better than single-target DPS is AOE DPS and I can dash around and AOE freeze and it's just so good
characters are starting to solidify
the plot around them is vaguely coming together
I wanna write this one. I haven't written a story since I was a teenager. Silly to stop. It's such a fun, indulgent thing.
ehhehee
I murderize the shit out of everything, too, as a ranger
some bosses have been a bit of a challenge but they've been solved by "I can stand still without dying now - spam the shit out of my lingering damage attacks then run around some more"