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A Friend in Need...
Kias
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
A close friend of mine is in some ongoing legal trouble which I won't go in to. It is serious stuff, and I had to consider what it would mean if any of it were true. After attempting to remove my personal bias, I ultimately ended up leaning towards the opinion that he is innocent, but really I do not believe myself or anyone other than the officials investigating have sufficient data to make a definitive conclusion. It's one of those things I never thought I would have to think about, but I decided that it's not my job to ascertain guilt, but to be a friend, and that is what I have been doing.
A couple others in our social circle, which prior to this seemed like a close-knit group, are opting more for a "guilty until proven innocent" approach. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, so that is fine even if I disagree, but we have two big events that always bring everyone out: a Halloween party and a Christmas party. Keep in mind, with everyone's schedule and not everyone being the most social of creatures, getting everyone out is a rarity so these are usually pretty special occasions.
This year, my friend was not invited to the Halloween party, which was not revealed until we all got there (several of us dressed in a themed outfit to match his and his wife's just as a way to show support, which made it kind of an elephant in the room for the entire event). Now he is also not being invited to the Christmas party. Once again, I am not organizing the party and if the organizers are not comfortable inviting him, that is up to them, but I guess until now I viewed this as an "our party" sort of thing, instead of "my party."
Right now, I am leaning towards not going, because while I respect everyone's right to their own opinion, I still think it is an unfair approach for someone who has always been a good friend to everyone involved. Instead of leaving my friend and his family high and dry, I am thinking of taking them out the night when we would usually have our party. Another friend has suggested maybe we can just do things on separate nights. While the latter option has an appeal to it, I do miss seeing a lot of the people that will be there, part of me feels like it is, I don't know, condoning the exclusion maybe? And it would still leave my friend and his wife out in the cold come party night. I guess I am just not sure how to feel about it.
So what do you all think I should do in this situation? I don't like how some of my friends are acting and I honestly didn't expect it, but that is how these things go sometimes. I get that no one wants to be associated with trouble and being around someone who could potentially be guilty makes some uncomfortable, but it just feels more like fear than it does logic. Am I being over-dramatic by taking them out during the party night? Should I just do two separate get-togethers? Any advice would be appreciated.
A couple others in our social circle, which prior to this seemed like a close-knit group, are opting more for a "guilty until proven innocent" approach. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, so that is fine even if I disagree, but we have two big events that always bring everyone out: a Halloween party and a Christmas party. Keep in mind, with everyone's schedule and not everyone being the most social of creatures, getting everyone out is a rarity so these are usually pretty special occasions.
This year, my friend was not invited to the Halloween party, which was not revealed until we all got there (several of us dressed in a themed outfit to match his and his wife's just as a way to show support, which made it kind of an elephant in the room for the entire event). Now he is also not being invited to the Christmas party. Once again, I am not organizing the party and if the organizers are not comfortable inviting him, that is up to them, but I guess until now I viewed this as an "our party" sort of thing, instead of "my party."
Right now, I am leaning towards not going, because while I respect everyone's right to their own opinion, I still think it is an unfair approach for someone who has always been a good friend to everyone involved. Instead of leaving my friend and his family high and dry, I am thinking of taking them out the night when we would usually have our party. Another friend has suggested maybe we can just do things on separate nights. While the latter option has an appeal to it, I do miss seeing a lot of the people that will be there, part of me feels like it is, I don't know, condoning the exclusion maybe? And it would still leave my friend and his wife out in the cold come party night. I guess I am just not sure how to feel about it.
So what do you all think I should do in this situation? I don't like how some of my friends are acting and I honestly didn't expect it, but that is how these things go sometimes. I get that no one wants to be associated with trouble and being around someone who could potentially be guilty makes some uncomfortable, but it just feels more like fear than it does logic. Am I being over-dramatic by taking them out during the party night? Should I just do two separate get-togethers? Any advice would be appreciated.
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If you want to support him but don't care about sending the message just go to the party and arrange to see him sometime else.
Is he having legal troubles over some shoddy bookkeeping? Eh I'd probably not exclude him.
Is he having legal troubles over molesting/assaulting/raping someone? I wouldn't say I'd consider him guilty, but I'd probably put my friendship and contact with him in a state of limbo until it's decided.
It's a personal decision of where your "line" is.
If what he's accused of doesn't cross your line, but does cross your other friends' lines, I would probably just do two events. But either way, if some of my friends are just flat out not comfortable being in the same room as him, forcing him into the party just wouldn't be good for anyone.
On condoning the exclusion: in my opinion, if you go to the party you give the appearance of condoning the exclusion, full stop. There are no two ways about that. If you want to show your disapproval for the way they are treating your friend, the only way is not to go, and to tell somebody exactly why, instead of making up an excuse. It's up to you how important it is not to appear condoning.
You should do what you feel and think is right. If that means not attending the parties anymore? Do it.
Also, I'd recommend you let everyone know why you're no longer attending. This way there's no question that you're not a "rape apologist" or "scumbag wife beater's buddy" or whatever the case is here. My language on that last part is a bit harsh, but I've also had to deal with that "guilty before innocent" nonsense among friends too, it sucks, and your friend will really appreciate your support. At least, they usually do anyways.
I've made the choice to not be involved with certain people from my former highschool group of friends, and made it pretty clear that if X or Y was present, I was not going to be. In that situation, I happened to be the odd one out, and so the consequences of that were mine. Occasionally I sat out of group gatherings in favor of my personal comfort/feeling of safety. If this is a matter of feeling safe, when you approach your friends with this I would not try and make them feel guilty for making this choice,
I'd be more onboard with these kinds of concerns without the suprise factor. From what we're told it was unknown that the guy wasn't gonna be there but whoever is organizing these just kinda decided it for people and didn't actually solicit input on it.
After that point it gets super complicated with peoples perception of safety and comfort balanced against if he actually did it and ultimately the whole issue of repentance/forgiveness and all kinds of stuff. Really at that point it all becomes very personal.
This is a good point. I guess I do want to communicate my disapproval but don't know if this is the best way to go about it. As I mentioned, the whole thing has me a bit confused.
I understand that I left some context out and that does influence how folks are reacting. I don't want to be specific, but think more along the lines of, the internet can be a terrible place with terrible things and clicking the wrong place can put some of those terrible things on your hard drive. So, if it is true, then yes, it crosses my line. But I do not believe it is true, and there is no way for any of us to know one way or the other.
Yeah, this is what I was thinking and I will be sure to politely clarify why I am not going. I think I feel like I am choosing between people and it's just kind of shitty. This is more about who I want to be as a friend than picking one over the other, and I would do the same for the majority of the people who would be there.
This is my biggest concern. This has had a huge impact on my friend and his family, both socially and financially. Worse, everything is moving so slow. They have been in legal limbo for months, and will be for several more months.
Yeah, actually, I have done the same thing. I feel like that choice is result of actions they take that I personally know of and can confirm. I knew person X was wildly irresponsible, dangerous, or whatever. There is no knowing in this situation. However, having distanced myself from people before, I am trying to be empathetic and understanding to those who are doing it now.
I think you pretty much just say this with a dash of 'innocent until proven guilty' and you're covered.
You can also explain to your friend that while you may support him, you also have your own life to live, and go if you please.
The behavior shown right now is already going to have done harm. Being purposefully excluded until the courts decide is likely not something he and his family will just be able to shrug off and laugh about later, even if he is found completely innocent.
So what you do now is up to you... but no matter what, I don't think this group of friends is ever going to be the same as they were before, you need to plan for that as well as doing what you feel is right.
So personally, I'd say it sucks, but I'd tell the friends your reasons/justification and say if he's not invited you feel that it's the right thing to do to stand by them and go out and do something. Maybe that will have the group reconsider, or maybe they just cant, but will respect your wishes.
After this year, assuming he's found innocent, it's likely you will need to do something with the group on the planned night, and him and his family on an alternate night going forward. I just don't really see everyone being all that festive around each other after this.
I don't know how helpful this may be, but I feel like anything so bad on the internet as to have possible charges brought up and alienate a bunch of friends is probably pretty easy to avoid.
Unfortunately, there are trusts that once broken can never be repaired. Even if charges were dropped / they were acquitted, that trust would never come back fully and I would always have some suspicion / subject them to a higher level of scrutiny. And this is talking about someone like my dad or sister - much less another friend.
I do understand though being in a position where you have to put 100% faith in someone that they are telling you the truth. But, you can't fault your other friends - friends who have different relationships, different feelings / standards, and different concerns for not giving your friend the same faith. You also shouldn't them for not wanting the unpleasantness the situation brings with it to what should be an enjoyable night. It may be the elephant in the room, but the whole point of that cliche is that everyone is ignoring it.
I'm not going to go into the blame in the situation and so-on, but it's quite possible that you won't be able to remain neutral and will need to choose which friend or friends to lose. You are the only one who can determine if it's that important that you support your friend - and how you support that friend. Being frank with your group of friends, and respecting (even if you disagree) with their position might be the best course of action. It will maintain some form of a bridge and maybe even get some guarded support from members of the group that wouldn't be able to offer any support otherwise.
At the very least, it gives you an opportunity for your group of friends to understand what you feel and why. That is, if it's important to you that you maintain those relationships. Your accused friend also will probably understand if you tell him that you don't think it was right he wasn't invited, and you do still support him, but your circle of friends is still important to you. I don't think a good friend would ever want you to burn all of your personal / social relationships on their behalf.
If I believed him, I'd distance myself from the "no smoke without fire" fair weather brigade.
My point is, you aren't alone in the world in feeling this way, so stand by what your heart tells you to do in this situation. I would probably make plans with your friend outside of the party, and then it's up to you whether you think you should go to said party. If you feel like going is supporting everyone else cutting out your friend, then don't go and tell your friends the exact reason you aren't coming so there's no ambiguity.
Edit: Personally, I don't necessarily feel like going to the party is cutting your friend out IF you also do something with him separately. But it's up to you.
Everyone has their lines, and everyone has their reasons for where their lines are.
Whether yours is further or not doesn't determine your level of friendship.
The way innocent before proven guilty works is someone can be conceptually innocent, while still guilty as fuck. And people might not feel comfortable with this fact, and thus, they give up the friendship. There also exists a point where you need to draw the line between acquittal/not guilty and conviction. Sometimes shit happens, and while it gives you the right to feel however you feel, I personally will frown on how you react to someone that gets caught in the crossfire when they're not at fault (usually you can tell when someone's not guilty and just being charged because someone's a petty dick, or there was a misidentification).
Without much details, I can't really give a super definitive answer other than "go with your gut and what makes you feel better." A few hundred thousand years of social evolution is on your side.
I don't think anyone is saying that he needs to ostracize his friend. It would in fact be a pretty shitty thing to do if he truly believes his friend is innocent.
However - because he believes his friend, or if what his friend did / is accused of doesn't cross his line doesn't mean that his other friends feel the same way. Maybe they are just shitty fair-weather friends who dumped the mutual friend at the first sign of controversy. Maybe they don't believe the mutual friend the way OP does. Or maybe they even think that the mutual friend PROBABLY isn't guilty, but they feel strongly they can't take the chance for whatever reason.
OP - if he truly believes his friend is not guilty - should not take part in ostracizing his friend. At the same time, he needs to decide based on his own beliefs and the situation if trying to remain neutral and still engage with the group of friends is even possible. It may not be, he may be compelled by his own conscience to take a side, or he may be compelled by his friend / group of friends to take a side.
But at the end of the day it's a personal decision he needs to make, and real friends would recognize and acknowledge, even if they don't agree with it. Even if they feel betrayed by it.
It's a shitty situation and unfortunately there probably isn't a good way out that doesn't involve damaging relationships on one side or another.
There are a lot of very good reasons that the American justice system considers everyone innocent until proven guilty.
Alternate point of view: If your friend is found guilty you can always cut off ties then fairly easily (even easier since he'll be going to jail). If your friend is acquitted there is no way to restore that friendship.
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You are certainly allowed to distance yourself from these people if you no longer find their friendship meaningful given the way they've treated him. But you will not be doing yourself any favors by trying to "take a stand" here.
These people are allowed to choose who to be friends with, and they are not being unfair by doing so. I understand why you feel that way, but that just isn't how friendships work. Even if you are doing everything right and being great, other people are still allowed to not really like you or want to be around you, nor can they always control the fact that they just Don't Want To Be Around You. Accepting that is a part of life. It sucks that this all happened at once for him, but it sounds like he still has people on his side and isn't alone in this, so I'm sure he'll make it through alright. It might be tough, but that is also a part of life, and it is unfair to ask people to spend time with someone they don't feel comfortable/safe around in order to pretend everything is okay and not hurt anyone's feelings (except the people being made uncomfortable).
Also, is the victim of his alleged crime (if there is a victim) a part of your social circle? If so, I would unequivocally drop any idea of taking a stand on this right now, because I really don't think you want to be That Guy.
I would also recommend taking a look at the Five Geek Social Fallacies if you haven't already, because it is a really excellent little writeup that plays into your problem pretty well, as well as some other really common issues that you tend to run into amongst the nerdier social circles: http://www.plausiblydeniable.com/opinion/gsf.html
Long story short: I would do separate get togethers, as I don't really see a huge downside to hanging out on multiple occasions (unless you are very busy). If you really don't want to associate with the people throwing the party, then don't go, but taking a stand on this issue will only hurt your friendship with the party-throwers, and almost certainly won't do anything to "fix" the perceived injustice here.
Say he tells you he's fine if you go, and you do. I guarantee you he'll feel hurt anyway, as the only person left out. He almost certainly won't blame you - you already said he's been a very good friend, and support of your friend's friendships comes with that. But don't make the mistake of thinking you aren't taking a side. But say you go anyway.
You will be treated to what will mostly be a pleasant evening - sooooooo glad that other guy isn't here. Remember last time when he showed up anyway? awkaaaard. But now he's gone and it's just us normal non-criminals. Did you hear his family is doing this? What's the latest on him? Is he in jail yet? You know I always knew there was something kind of off about that guy. Wait, you think he didn't do it? Innocent until proven guilty you say? Oh.. that's nice. Very open-minded of you. I hear he blah blah blah blah blah....
Maybe your friends aren't gossipy at all. Maybe no one will even think twice about him not being there, which will be a little strange in itself since you've been doing this for years. But the more likely thing is that he comes up negatively at least once, and you will either be put in the position of gossiping with the herd to avoid rocking the boat at a party, defending him because it's that or throw him under the bus, or feeling like you need to keep silent while the people around you suck.
You don't have to say you aren't going because he's not been proven guilty yet, douchebags... you can say that you don't want to go while there's conflict because you don't want to take a side, and you'll be around for the next one. Or you can go, but going will probably not be as comfortable or fun an experience as you are imagining, and in all likelihood you will end up wishing you hadn't in favor of doing what you feel is right.
The fact is, for me it wouldn't be worth it. For me, someone not wanting to take a chance on me after a false accusation absolutely informs me of how good or close a friend they are. If he can go back to being around them after this, he's just a better person than I am.
It helps that when you've had enough life experiences. Some of those fallacies are the things that when you see enough real shit, you can properly interact with your friend groups.
The true test of if you have overcame those fallacies is if you can look at your best friend in the world and tell him "I have a lady coming over and you need to go the fuck home."