I think dropping Kinect was the right move, and it'll probably help make up for some lost ground here at the start of this console gen. I think at least a bit of irreversible damage was done, though, even though lots of people really like their Kinects. There are lots of households that buy just one console per generation, and for at least some of those the PS4 is it.
The PS3 was able to recover significantly late into the last cycle, but that's because they did a lot to make up for missteps. PS+ (I'll be the first to admit I was skeptical of this, but they have really done a bang-up job on this service), several amazing exclusives, incredible indie support, and just generally listening to (more intelligent members of) its community and taking advice to heart, among other things.
The XBOne can come back from all of this, too, and dropping the price by shedding a peripheral (which has admitted untapped potential, but the untapped is the important part) is, in my opinion, a good first step on that road.
the kinect for 360 had significant technical limitations that meant it would lose reliable skeleton tracking if you were doing something like holding a controller. the policy was not because microsoft saw no controllers as a key to their vision, it's because the hardware was limited
kinect 2 has solved that problem, so now things like a game where you are sitting on your couch, holding a controller, and kinect tracks your head movement is ok
I actually like Windows 8 in many ways now I'm used to it. Though I don't know what it was like pre 8.1 or whatever, but I like it. I bought my new computer dreading Windows 8 as the OS equivalent of Hitler, so I was pleasantly surprised.
Kinnect is freaking great for a small subset of game types. But without buttons, it's pretty much impossible to create a motion controlled game that isn't on rails. Buttons allow you to handle movement and side actions while you use motion controls for your main method of interaction/attack. Motion controls are fantastic in games like Skyward Sword, Infamous 2, Resident Evil 4, and the like and they're not rail shooters.
And voice commands can be done with a headset.
And its a good thing the modern kinect totally allows you to build games that use both the camera and your controller at the same time.
This complaint sits better with the kinect 1, where that was a valid complaint and a rather dumb policy on MS's part.
Yes, I am well aware of that. If you read Syndalis' post, he was claiming that the new kinect lets you build games with both the camera and controller like it was a new policy, never done with the original kinect. So I pointed out Steel Battalion, which is another example of a long line of incredibly badly put together kinect games. The only functional part of that game was the fact it used a controller.
The point is that Kinect games that used a controller as well actually have been done before, it's not a novel new idea and policy bought in only with the Xbone, which you would have picked up on if you actually read the post.
Syndalis was pointing out that new hardware makes Kinect with a controller actually feasible
In other news, Xbox One now has the Games with Gold program applied to it in the month of June, with "Max: The Curse of Brotherhood" and "Halo: Spartan Assault." being its first offerings.
Nah, there's just blood in the water, which has worked some people into a frenzy. Again. ironically the tone of these threads seems like it's come full circle into the state it was last year.
Everything old is new again!
But really, it's just Microsoft's shitty decisions haunting them again, but at least now it's because they're divesting themselves of one of the dumbest decisions they made.
And for anybody thinking that Microsoft reversed this decision, and several other terrible ones, because of internet outrage, they're just plain wrong. Microsoft is a company driven by profits, not public sentiment; they finally saw what we saw coming a year ago, i.e., the Kinect costing them sales, and so they're not making it mandatory anymore. They don't give a shit about what any of us have to say, just what we're willing to buy.
Nah, there's just blood in the water, which has worked some people into a frenzy. Again. ironically the tone of these threads seems like it's come full circle into the state it was last year.
Everything old is new again!
But really, it's just Microsoft's shitty decisions haunting them again, but at least now it's because they're divesting themselves of one of the dumbest decisions they made.
And for anybody thinking that Microsoft reversed this decision, and several other terrible ones, because of internet outrage, they're just plain wrong. Microsoft is a company driven by profits, not public sentiment; they finally saw what we saw coming a year ago, i.e., the Kinect costing them sales, and so they're not making it mandatory anymore. They don't give a shit about what any of us have to say, just what we're willing to buy.
And Sony is exactly the same, it's just that they did better at predicting what people would buy at the start of this console gen. I hope Microsoft has its head in the game from here on out, because I think competition between consoles is a good, healthy thing and (generally) consumers benefit from it.
Kinnect is freaking great for a small subset of game types. But without buttons, it's pretty much impossible to create a motion controlled game that isn't on rails. Buttons allow you to handle movement and side actions while you use motion controls for your main method of interaction/attack. Motion controls are fantastic in games like Skyward Sword, Infamous 2, Resident Evil 4, and the like and they're not rail shooters.
And voice commands can be done with a headset.
And its a good thing the modern kinect totally allows you to build games that use both the camera and your controller at the same time.
This complaint sits better with the kinect 1, where that was a valid complaint and a rather dumb policy on MS's part.
But this just highlights the split personality of the XBO. Sure you could use Kinnect 2.0 with a controller, but the controller wasn't changed to take advantage of that option. Instead, it's form factor is unchanged from the 360 controller. So the Kinnect was an intergral part of the XBO, but not really.
lowlylowlycook on
(Please do not gift. My game bank is already full.)
MS obviously didn't have the scrilla to launch a system with good normal titles and a slew of Kinect titles. So they put Kinect games on the backburner to get their launch line-up out. They finally have tech to make better games... but if no one is buying Kinect games and MS just announced no more kinect pack-in... we will never actually see a good Kinect title because people like you moaned how bad the first Kinect was. Effectively killing this Kinect, regardless of improvements, because it bears the name of it's inferior predecessor.
I am sure in an alternate universe, people weren't afraid of change and the Xbone did come out unaltered. And in that universe they are probably playing some badass Kinect games.
Kinect 1.0 did great because they had a whole slew of games to push the device with, and it had a huge install base of 360's. If they had just launched the Kinect as a standalone peripheral, I feel like we might have seen it do a little better.
MS obviously didn't have the scrilla to launch a system with good normal titles and a slew of Kinect titles. So they put Kinect games on the backburner to get their launch line-up out. They finally have tech to make better games... but if no one is buying Kinect games and MS just announced no more kinect pack-in... we will never actually see a good Kinect title because people like you moaned how bad the first Kinect was. Effectively killing this Kinect, regardless of improvements, because it bears the name of it's inferior predecessor.
I am sure in an alternate universe, people weren't afraid of change and the Xbone did come out unaltered. And in that universe they are probably playing some badass Kinect games.
Kinect 1.0 did great because they had a whole slew of games to push the device with, and it had a huge install base of 360's. If they had just launched the Kinect as a standalone peripheral, I feel like we might have seen it do a little better.
Ehhhhhh.
At this point, if somebody made a Kinect game that just absolutely blew everybody away and actually proved the potential, more people would pick it up. But how long is that going to take? Years? Meanwhile, Microsoft is losing out on tons of console sales, which means they're losing out on tons of other purchases from people owning the system, Kinect or no.
BRIAN BLESSEDMaybe you aren't SPEAKING LOUDLY ENOUGHHHRegistered Userregular
edited May 2014
Like I mentioned a couple pages back, the approach of brute-force install base for the XBO has apparently not paid dividends, and in hindsight if they were going to implement the KInect they should have done so once the technology was seeded in other Windows products and integrated more smoothly into their target audience's lifestyles. The more I think about it, the more I believe that bundling the Kinect in a mandatory fashion could have been done at a later date - maybe bundling it with future packages minus a price hike, maybe replacing a straight price drop in order to impress value on consumers.
At the end of the day, I think it was too much change, much too soon (actual fundamental principles aside re: DRM) and if there's one thing that I think is pretty easy to establish it's that the gaming community doesn't like rapid, mandatory changes to the way videogames are played - though in this case it's the perceived extra cost which is the twist of the knife. There are already effective, unobtrusive ways of using the Kinect that enhance current gaming - voice commands in Mass Effect, the use of head tracking and leaning in Battlefield, the use of sound and movement to fight zombies in Dead Rising 3. imo it's a matter of delivering the Kinect itself in an unobtrusive manner that minimises previous, negative reputations. Certainly an uphill climb for Microsoft if they ever want to give it another go (and of course hindsight is a beautiful thing)
MS obviously didn't have the scrilla to launch a system with good normal titles and a slew of Kinect titles. So they put Kinect games on the backburner to get their launch line-up out. They finally have tech to make better games... but if no one is buying Kinect games and MS just announced no more kinect pack-in... we will never actually see a good Kinect title because people like you moaned how bad the first Kinect was. Effectively killing this Kinect, regardless of improvements, because it bears the name of it's inferior predecessor.
I am sure in an alternate universe, people weren't afraid of change and the Xbone did come out unaltered. And in that universe they are probably playing some badass Kinect games.
Kinect 1.0 did great because they had a whole slew of games to push the device with, and it had a huge install base of 360's. If they had just launched the Kinect as a standalone peripheral, I feel like we might have seen it do a little better.
None of the features cut had any effect on the Kinect. If badass games for it were to exist then they would. The argument that consumers should buy something on the chance that someone actually makes something good for it is pretty much completely counter to how buying goods and services normally works. But I guess this multinational, multibillion corporation needs us to cut them some slack since who could expect them to have the resources to make a freaking launch game for your killer app.
People don't mind mandatory, speedy change if they are given something that justifies it.
If an unbelievably badass swordfighting/biofeedback horror/whatever game was available at launch and word of mouth let people know that Kinect was doing amazing things, people would've been snapping them up.
Instead it was lumped in with the system with vague promises of awesome things in the indeterminate future, and nobody wants to be the guinea pig on something unproven.
Is anyone else excited for Super Time Force? I'm definitely picking it up when I get home from work. It looks great!
+5
BRIAN BLESSEDMaybe you aren't SPEAKING LOUDLY ENOUGHHHRegistered Userregular
And again, there have been applications of the Kinect that have enhanced current, traditional gaming - but the objective would have to be for Microsoft to justify the addition of the product in the context of those applications, of which the perception seems to be that they don't exist/there aren't enough/or aren't worth the price.
Right... my point was they launched this thing all wrong. The first Kinect launch actually had games to sell the damn thing. This time MS wasn't able to foot the bill for 5+ games to be developed for the thing. And games don't just materialize over night. They take time, money, and effort. You keep pointing at the games that weren't good but to me there were good Kinect titles. Child of Eden was awesome, Gunstringer was neat and hilarious, Fruit Ninja was just stupid silly fun. Happy Action Theater was a great party...thing. There were experiences to be had with hardware that I had a great time with. I know there is potential there. What we needed was smaller companies looking to make fun, cheap games with it. Instead we got Harmonix and Rare pushing out the same crap again. And you are right, it's entirely on MS for not making it more accessible to devs, and for not fostering Kinecf game development. Just like it's on them for not supporting the original Kinect, or how it's their conscious decision here to shoot it in the foot.
They have the power to make Kinect worth it, but obviously they are going for the cut-and-run approach. This pretty much ensures any dev looking at making a Kinect game, isn't anymore.
People don't mind mandatory, speedy change if they are given something that justifies it.
If an unbelievably badass swordfighting/biofeedback horror/whatever game was available at launch and word of mouth let people know that Kinect was doing amazing things, people would've been snapping them up.
Instead it was lumped in with the system with vague promises of awesome things in the indeterminate future, and nobody wants to be the guinea pig on something unproven.
EDIT: slowofalltrades
Especially when they made the same promises about the last Kinect and failed to deliver on that, as well.
This time MS wasn't able to foot the bill for 5+ games to be developed for the thing. And games don't just materialize over night. They take time, money, and effort.
That's the crazy thing. MS certainly could "foot the bill for 5+ games". They could probably get that kind of money by shaking out the break room couches.
Maybe internal politics made those resources unavailable to the XBOX group, but then why make Kinect a pack in? It's really impossible to understand MS's thinking with the XBO launch.
(Please do not gift. My game bank is already full.)
+1
syndalisGetting ClassyOn the WallRegistered User, Loves Apple Products, Transition Teamregular
HAY GUYS!
this might have gotten missed in the shuffle, buuut.
Diablo III + Expansion confirmed for Xbox One, launching August
This version of the game, which includes both the original Diablo III and its recent expansion Reaper of Souls, had only previously been confirmed for a PS4 release. Xbox One and PS4 versions are expected to retail for $59.99, whereas Xbox 360 and PS3 will carry a more modest $39.99 price tag.
New in the Ultimate Evil Edition is an Apprentice mode that boosts the power of low-level players so they can play co-op alongside their high-level buddies, and a new in-game mail system that allows you to share loot with those on your friends list.
Blizzard adds that preorders and launch day copies of the game will come with the Infernal Pauldrons in-game item, which can be worn at level 1 and gives bonuses to health, life regeneration, and cooldown reduction. The pauldrons will not be able to transfer across platforms, however, but they can be transmogrified. So there's that, at least.
Those who own the previous console edition of Diablo III, for either Xbox 360 or PlayStation 3, will be able to keep their characters in this new edition. PS3 characters can also be transferred to PS4, and Xbox 360 characters can make the jump to Xbox One.
SW-4158-3990-6116
Let's play Mario Kart or something...
This time MS wasn't able to foot the bill for 5+ games to be developed for the thing. And games don't just materialize over night. They take time, money, and effort.
That's the crazy thing. MS certainly could "foot the bill for 5+ games". They could probably get that kind of money by shaking out the break room couches.
Maybe internal politics made those resources unavailable to the XBOX group, but then why make Kinect a pack in? It's really impossible to understand MS's thinking with the XBO launch.
My guess is that they wanted the pack-in there in the hopes of attracting third-parties to develop for it (it's safe to develop for Kinect because everybody will have one), but then sales were low at least in part due to the lack of initial support and it ended up being safer to develop either cross-platform without Kinect support or on other systems entirely.
Kinect didn't prove its case over four years because the original Kinect was much less capable than MS led people to believe. Kinect 2 is more capable and in the small handful of games released for next gen full stop, quite a few have used Kinect 2 well. Forza does the head tracking very well, so does Battlefield 4, people seem to be hating on Kinect Sports Rivals but when I played it at various games shows ( I live in a tiny little room until the Summer so can't get it myself) I was consistently amazed at how well it worked compared to all the problems I had with the first Kinect, the climbing game in particular was a lot of fun and worked really well, doing something I hadn't seen in a game before. Dead Rising, Ryse and Need for Speed all use the voice commands and work fine (at least in my experience). To suggest that we can write off Kinect 2 because of Kinect 1 and this idea that no developers have been able to use Kinect 2 well is a complete myth, it's just that it works really well for more subtle additions to gameplay rather than 'lets jump around' style games, even when it does work well for those games (all the Kinect Sports games, which worked well if you had enough space on the 360 as my years of using them in my school as an activities week treat attested to, the exercise-based games and the Dance Central games) people scoff at it because they're seen as too casual.
I'm not sure a game entirely based around motion control for the hardcore gaming market was ever going to work really well, and although people tried it's just not useful for that, but is a fantastic addition to the system and the more it got used the better it would get. Imagine if ArmA got ported to the Xbox One with head tracking intact like the TrackIR, that's the sort of thing it's already been used successfully for, but it's not enough of a feature to put on the back of the box as a unique selling point. It's like really great, smooth and intuitive menus. They're important and can make a good game a lot better, but no-one's going to rave about them.
I seriously doubt that you will be able to convince any of the people that think the Kinect couldn't/wouldn't anything that it could/would no more than they can convince you of the opposite, and you guys are just spinning your wheels trying to do it. o_O
tastydonuts on
“I used to draw, hard to admit that I used to draw...”
I seriously doubt that you will be able to convince any of the people that think the Kinect couldn't/wouldn't anything that it could/would no more than they can convince you of the opposite, and you guys are just spinning your wheels trying to do it. o_O
Arguing about motion controls is like arguing about religion, politics, or college sports teams?
This isn't the industry thread. This thread has historically been used to discuss releases for the Xbox One, games and ways to use the tech.
I know you guys want an Industry thread to have console wars in, but I'd just like to ask that you guys acknowledge that you've now had some posts on the impact of dropping the Kinect, drop the arguing, and let the last 46 pages we'll have for the Xbox One be used by folks wanting to talk about upcoming releases and stuff. I'd really appreciate that, because this is the only thread we have to do that in.
I know I can't MAKE you stop arguing about the xbox in here, but I'd like to ask politely that you do so, just to let Xbox owners have a thread to talk about releases and stuff.
I am super pumped that D3 is releasing on the One as well, and I sort of regret having bought D3 for the PC. I imagine my wife will be willing to play on the One if there's good drop-in/drop-out capability.
I'm also pumped about the goofy Halo game being a free game next month. I'd been wanting to buy it, but it's so kitschy that I didn't want to pay money for it. I will totally play it for free, and I know I have several friends that'll play it too.
I feel like the Kinect for 360 wasn't really ready for primetime. I don't know if the Kinect 2 had the potential to deliver the original's promises, but the original seems to have tainted the brand.
Diablo 3 and Super Time Force both look awesome, but Watch_Dogs is probably the next game I am gonna get. I did preorder Destiny so there's the Beta to that too.
0
syndalisGetting ClassyOn the WallRegistered User, Loves Apple Products, Transition Teamregular
Watch_Dogs is an absolute must-buy for me. Even if it isn't as shiny as the original footage, it still looks like a fun, "Assassin's Creed in Modern Times" thing, and I am totally down for another creed-like game at the moment.
SW-4158-3990-6116
Let's play Mario Kart or something...
This isn't the industry thread. This thread has historically been used to discuss releases for the Xbox One, games and ways to use the tech.
I know you guys want an Industry thread to have console wars in, but I'd just like to ask that you guys acknowledge that you've now had some posts on the impact of dropping the Kinect, drop the arguing, and let the last 46 pages we'll have for the Xbox One be used by folks wanting to talk about upcoming releases and stuff. I'd really appreciate that, because this is the only thread we have to do that in.
I know I can't MAKE you stop arguing about the xbox in here, but I'd like to ask politely that you do so, just to let Xbox owners have a thread to talk about releases and stuff.
I am super pumped that D3 is releasing on the One as well, and I sort of regret having bought D3 for the PC. I imagine my wife will be willing to play on the One if there's good drop-in/drop-out capability.
I'm also pumped about the goofy Halo game being a free game next month. I'd been wanting to buy it, but it's so kitschy that I didn't want to pay money for it. I will totally play it for free, and I know I have several friends that'll play it too.
Be happy to if there were actually an industry thread to post in.
Why the crap did I ever make my original name "cloudeagle?"
Diablo 3 and Super Time Force both look awesome, but Watch_Dogs is probably the next game I am gonna get. I did preorder Destiny so there's the Beta to that too.
I'm thinking I'll get Super Time Force, but I still have yet to finish all the missions in Ground Zeroes or 100% AMSP2. Plus I have Lego Movie, and a some other game that I bought digitally on a whim that I never bothered starting.
Did you guys know Wolfenstein is coming on the 20th? Yeah. I know right? :P
Watch Dogs will likely be the next game I buy and play immediately on the One.
“I used to draw, hard to admit that I used to draw...”
This isn't the industry thread. This thread has historically been used to discuss releases for the Xbox One, games and ways to use the tech.
I know you guys want an Industry thread to have console wars in, but I'd just like to ask that you guys acknowledge that you've now had some posts on the impact of dropping the Kinect, drop the arguing, and let the last 46 pages we'll have for the Xbox One be used by folks wanting to talk about upcoming releases and stuff. I'd really appreciate that, because this is the only thread we have to do that in.
I know I can't MAKE you stop arguing about the xbox in here, but I'd like to ask politely that you do so, just to let Xbox owners have a thread to talk about releases and stuff.
I am super pumped that D3 is releasing on the One as well, and I sort of regret having bought D3 for the PC. I imagine my wife will be willing to play on the One if there's good drop-in/drop-out capability.
I'm also pumped about the goofy Halo game being a free game next month. I'd been wanting to buy it, but it's so kitschy that I didn't want to pay money for it. I will totally play it for free, and I know I have several friends that'll play it too.
Yes, how dare people talk about a recent development with the Xbox One in the Xbox One thread.
Also, can we not attribute differences of opinion to 'console wars' bullshit. I'm probably going to buy an XB1 at some point, and I still thought the Kinect was mostly pointless.
The problem they had with it is that they needed something, anything, to catch the public's attention with it at launch. It didn't need to be a huge budget AAA title. It just had to demonstrate why they should care about Kinect. Considering how long Kinect had been around, and that MS no doubt knew they were probably going to include it with their new system, that they didn't have an included, effective proof of concept game is a bit damning. They needed the XB1's 'Wii Sports' equivalent, but unfortunately their takeaway was 'sport game' and not 'demonstrates why people should buy this thing'.
This isn't the industry thread. This thread has historically been used to discuss releases for the Xbox One, games and ways to use the tech.
I know you guys want an Industry thread to have console wars in, but I'd just like to ask that you guys acknowledge that you've now had some posts on the impact of dropping the Kinect, drop the arguing, and let the last 46 pages we'll have for the Xbox One be used by folks wanting to talk about upcoming releases and stuff. I'd really appreciate that, because this is the only thread we have to do that in.
I know I can't MAKE you stop arguing about the xbox in here, but I'd like to ask politely that you do so, just to let Xbox owners have a thread to talk about releases and stuff.
I am super pumped that D3 is releasing on the One as well, and I sort of regret having bought D3 for the PC. I imagine my wife will be willing to play on the One if there's good drop-in/drop-out capability.
I'm also pumped about the goofy Halo game being a free game next month. I'd been wanting to buy it, but it's so kitschy that I didn't want to pay money for it. I will totally play it for free, and I know I have several friends that'll play it too.
Be happy to if there were actually an industry thread to post in.
This isn't the industry thread. This thread has historically been used to discuss releases for the Xbox One, games and ways to use the tech.
I know you guys want an Industry thread to have console wars in, but I'd just like to ask that you guys acknowledge that you've now had some posts on the impact of dropping the Kinect, drop the arguing, and let the last 46 pages we'll have for the Xbox One be used by folks wanting to talk about upcoming releases and stuff. I'd really appreciate that, because this is the only thread we have to do that in.
I know I can't MAKE you stop arguing about the xbox in here, but I'd like to ask politely that you do so, just to let Xbox owners have a thread to talk about releases and stuff.
I am super pumped that D3 is releasing on the One as well, and I sort of regret having bought D3 for the PC. I imagine my wife will be willing to play on the One if there's good drop-in/drop-out capability.
I'm also pumped about the goofy Halo game being a free game next month. I'd been wanting to buy it, but it's so kitschy that I didn't want to pay money for it. I will totally play it for free, and I know I have several friends that'll play it too.
Be happy to if there were actually an industry thread to post in.
Blame yourself or God.
Can we blame the 5 or so people who would not STFU about something wholly off-topic that got it canned instead?
"The sausage of Green Earth explodes with flavor like the cannon of culinary delight."
This isn't the industry thread. This thread has historically been used to discuss releases for the Xbox One, games and ways to use the tech.
I know you guys want an Industry thread to have console wars in, but I'd just like to ask that you guys acknowledge that you've now had some posts on the impact of dropping the Kinect, drop the arguing, and let the last 46 pages we'll have for the Xbox One be used by folks wanting to talk about upcoming releases and stuff. I'd really appreciate that, because this is the only thread we have to do that in.
I know I can't MAKE you stop arguing about the xbox in here, but I'd like to ask politely that you do so, just to let Xbox owners have a thread to talk about releases and stuff.
I am super pumped that D3 is releasing on the One as well, and I sort of regret having bought D3 for the PC. I imagine my wife will be willing to play on the One if there's good drop-in/drop-out capability.
I'm also pumped about the goofy Halo game being a free game next month. I'd been wanting to buy it, but it's so kitschy that I didn't want to pay money for it. I will totally play it for free, and I know I have several friends that'll play it too.
Be happy to if there were actually an industry thread to post in.
Blame yourself or God.
Can we blame the 5 or so people who would not STFU about something wholly off-topic that got it canned instead?
Sure, you could also blame Preacher. Probably should, actually
Posts
Yeah... and now we'll be hard pressed to see one for sure.
Can we calm it down just a notch?
The PS3 was able to recover significantly late into the last cycle, but that's because they did a lot to make up for missteps. PS+ (I'll be the first to admit I was skeptical of this, but they have really done a bang-up job on this service), several amazing exclusives, incredible indie support, and just generally listening to (more intelligent members of) its community and taking advice to heart, among other things.
The XBOne can come back from all of this, too, and dropping the price by shedding a peripheral (which has admitted untapped potential, but the untapped is the important part) is, in my opinion, a good first step on that road.
kinect 2 has solved that problem, so now things like a game where you are sitting on your couch, holding a controller, and kinect tracks your head movement is ok
Syndalis was pointing out that new hardware makes Kinect with a controller actually feasible
The entirety of your post was "drops mic"
(Source)
Everything old is new again!
But really, it's just Microsoft's shitty decisions haunting them again, but at least now it's because they're divesting themselves of one of the dumbest decisions they made.
And for anybody thinking that Microsoft reversed this decision, and several other terrible ones, because of internet outrage, they're just plain wrong. Microsoft is a company driven by profits, not public sentiment; they finally saw what we saw coming a year ago, i.e., the Kinect costing them sales, and so they're not making it mandatory anymore. They don't give a shit about what any of us have to say, just what we're willing to buy.
And Sony is exactly the same, it's just that they did better at predicting what people would buy at the start of this console gen. I hope Microsoft has its head in the game from here on out, because I think competition between consoles is a good, healthy thing and (generally) consumers benefit from it.
But this just highlights the split personality of the XBO. Sure you could use Kinnect 2.0 with a controller, but the controller wasn't changed to take advantage of that option. Instead, it's form factor is unchanged from the 360 controller. So the Kinnect was an intergral part of the XBO, but not really.
(Please do not gift. My game bank is already full.)
I am sure in an alternate universe, people weren't afraid of change and the Xbone did come out unaltered. And in that universe they are probably playing some badass Kinect games.
Kinect 1.0 did great because they had a whole slew of games to push the device with, and it had a huge install base of 360's. If they had just launched the Kinect as a standalone peripheral, I feel like we might have seen it do a little better.
Ehhhhhh.
At this point, if somebody made a Kinect game that just absolutely blew everybody away and actually proved the potential, more people would pick it up. But how long is that going to take? Years? Meanwhile, Microsoft is losing out on tons of console sales, which means they're losing out on tons of other purchases from people owning the system, Kinect or no.
MS put out not one game that remotely justifies the inclusion of Kinect. Not one. Not remotely.
It's their fault entirely.
(Please do not gift. My game bank is already full.)
At the end of the day, I think it was too much change, much too soon (actual fundamental principles aside re: DRM) and if there's one thing that I think is pretty easy to establish it's that the gaming community doesn't like rapid, mandatory changes to the way videogames are played - though in this case it's the perceived extra cost which is the twist of the knife. There are already effective, unobtrusive ways of using the Kinect that enhance current gaming - voice commands in Mass Effect, the use of head tracking and leaning in Battlefield, the use of sound and movement to fight zombies in Dead Rising 3. imo it's a matter of delivering the Kinect itself in an unobtrusive manner that minimises previous, negative reputations. Certainly an uphill climb for Microsoft if they ever want to give it another go (and of course hindsight is a beautiful thing)
None of the features cut had any effect on the Kinect. If badass games for it were to exist then they would. The argument that consumers should buy something on the chance that someone actually makes something good for it is pretty much completely counter to how buying goods and services normally works. But I guess this multinational, multibillion corporation needs us to cut them some slack since who could expect them to have the resources to make a freaking launch game for your killer app.
If an unbelievably badass swordfighting/biofeedback horror/whatever game was available at launch and word of mouth let people know that Kinect was doing amazing things, people would've been snapping them up.
Instead it was lumped in with the system with vague promises of awesome things in the indeterminate future, and nobody wants to be the guinea pig on something unproven.
EDIT: slowofalltrades
They have the power to make Kinect worth it, but obviously they are going for the cut-and-run approach. This pretty much ensures any dev looking at making a Kinect game, isn't anymore.
Especially when they made the same promises about the last Kinect and failed to deliver on that, as well.
Fool me once...
PSN/Steam/NNID: SyphonBlue | BNet: SyphonBlue#1126
That's the crazy thing. MS certainly could "foot the bill for 5+ games". They could probably get that kind of money by shaking out the break room couches.
Maybe internal politics made those resources unavailable to the XBOX group, but then why make Kinect a pack in? It's really impossible to understand MS's thinking with the XBO launch.
(Please do not gift. My game bank is already full.)
this might have gotten missed in the shuffle, buuut.
Diablo III + Expansion confirmed for Xbox One, launching August
http://www.gamespot.com/articles/diablo-3-ultimate-evil-edition-confirmed-for-both-xbox-one-and-ps4-coming-this-august/1100-6419572/
Let's play Mario Kart or something...
My guess is that they wanted the pack-in there in the hopes of attracting third-parties to develop for it (it's safe to develop for Kinect because everybody will have one), but then sales were low at least in part due to the lack of initial support and it ended up being safer to develop either cross-platform without Kinect support or on other systems entirely.
I'm not sure a game entirely based around motion control for the hardcore gaming market was ever going to work really well, and although people tried it's just not useful for that, but is a fantastic addition to the system and the more it got used the better it would get. Imagine if ArmA got ported to the Xbox One with head tracking intact like the TrackIR, that's the sort of thing it's already been used successfully for, but it's not enough of a feature to put on the back of the box as a unique selling point. It's like really great, smooth and intuitive menus. They're important and can make a good game a lot better, but no-one's going to rave about them.
Arguing about motion controls is like arguing about religion, politics, or college sports teams?
// Switch: SW-5306-0651-6424 //
This isn't the industry thread. This thread has historically been used to discuss releases for the Xbox One, games and ways to use the tech.
I know you guys want an Industry thread to have console wars in, but I'd just like to ask that you guys acknowledge that you've now had some posts on the impact of dropping the Kinect, drop the arguing, and let the last 46 pages we'll have for the Xbox One be used by folks wanting to talk about upcoming releases and stuff. I'd really appreciate that, because this is the only thread we have to do that in.
I know I can't MAKE you stop arguing about the xbox in here, but I'd like to ask politely that you do so, just to let Xbox owners have a thread to talk about releases and stuff.
I am super pumped that D3 is releasing on the One as well, and I sort of regret having bought D3 for the PC. I imagine my wife will be willing to play on the One if there's good drop-in/drop-out capability.
I'm also pumped about the goofy Halo game being a free game next month. I'd been wanting to buy it, but it's so kitschy that I didn't want to pay money for it. I will totally play it for free, and I know I have several friends that'll play it too.
Let's play Mario Kart or something...
Be happy to if there were actually an industry thread to post in.
I'm thinking I'll get Super Time Force, but I still have yet to finish all the missions in Ground Zeroes or 100% AMSP2. Plus I have Lego Movie, and a some other game that I bought digitally on a whim that I never bothered starting.
Did you guys know Wolfenstein is coming on the 20th? Yeah. I know right? :P
Watch Dogs will likely be the next game I buy and play immediately on the One.
Yes, how dare people talk about a recent development with the Xbox One in the Xbox One thread.
Also, can we not attribute differences of opinion to 'console wars' bullshit. I'm probably going to buy an XB1 at some point, and I still thought the Kinect was mostly pointless.
The problem they had with it is that they needed something, anything, to catch the public's attention with it at launch. It didn't need to be a huge budget AAA title. It just had to demonstrate why they should care about Kinect. Considering how long Kinect had been around, and that MS no doubt knew they were probably going to include it with their new system, that they didn't have an included, effective proof of concept game is a bit damning. They needed the XB1's 'Wii Sports' equivalent, but unfortunately their takeaway was 'sport game' and not 'demonstrates why people should buy this thing'.
Blame yourself or God.
Yeah, there isn't much out there. There seems to be a lot of explosions and gunplay on the videos too, and less sandbox-hacker game.
Can we blame the 5 or so people who would not STFU about something wholly off-topic that got it canned instead?
Sure, you could also blame Preacher. Probably should, actually