No Raise

darqness

I have a business ethics question:

Backstory: I am the general manager for a substantially sized musical instrument dealer. I've been with the company for several years, and in this position for over 5 years (last I remember). Each year I've received a $2500.00 raise.

During my review in January my boss told me that because the year started out slow and he couldn't afford it he was delaying a raise until the 2nd quarter. I know he can afford it as I manage the business and know what's coming in/going out and we just got off our best year ever with a 20% increase. I understand however that you don't want to create a larger liability for the company if things go to shit. He did give me a $500.00 bonus check (I had already received a $1000.00 bonus and iPad Mini for Christmas bonus as well).

Well today I go over several big mistakes that the assistant general manager had made and spoke with my boss regarding these mistakes and during our conversation he said "...that's bullsh*t too since I just gave him a $2600.00 raise!". I didn't say anything at the moment, but now I'm wondering if I should bring it up with him. To complicate matters, this employee is his son-in-law who is just about to have a his first baby. I like the guy, however he's working in a business where he makes a lot of mistakes because he has absolutely no experience with this type of job. I don't have much of a problem forgetting it and chalking it up to nepotism, but it does bother me. Should I say anything about it or just forget it?

This isn't a case of I logged into Quickbooks and saw who got a raise and who didn't, as I KNOW that's a losing battle and sure way to get fired. I though since he brought it up however that it would be more acceptable to say it.

Honestly after reading this I'm thinking just put it to bed and look forward to a raise in the 2nd quarter.

gbrooks

I believe you should sit on it for now. It sounds like you don't know what kind of salary, raises and bonuses the AGM has gotten in the past. Maybe this is the first increase he's had. My point is maybe his experience doesn't compare to your experience of annual increases. Plus you did get $1500 + iPad over the last couple of months.

On the other hand: if you DO know the AGM's salary and history of bonuses, increases etc., and this IS just a case where he got his annual raise and you didn't, then I still say sit on it but if an increase doesn't come later this year maybe keep your eye out for something else. Ponder whether you think nepotism and other kinds of unfairness is par for the course at this company.

darqness

Basically he's been here since April of last year and done OK, he's still not catching on and the boss complains about him regularly. I feel the raise has more to do with "son-in-law + expecting baby = here's some money".
The part that bothers me is that he gave me a whole spiel of "we can't afford it right now".

Most likely I'll sit on it and end up forgetting about it. My thinking was bring it up while it's fresh, rather than later when he doesn't recall and thinks I pulled this info out of the payroll files.

Thundyrkatz

It may have been a case of, "we cant afford it... because i just gave a raise to the AGM"

Sit on it.

You have no upside to confronting the manager. He is not going to say "you got me, alright you can have a raise" he is much more likely to become defensive and think that all that matters to you is the money. Especially considering the bonuses you already got. So no raise and you come out looking bad.

Come second quarter, still do not mention anything about the AGM, what he makes and what yo make are not connected.

If the second quarter comes and goes with no raise, then you should consider discussing why you have not gotten a raise considering revenues are up and you have taken on X responsibilities or done Y things that should qualify you for a raise.

Maybe you have reached the most he wants to pay you. If that's the case, then maybe consider negotiating some other form of compensation. More vacation time, better hours, a closer parking spot, whatever you want that he can provide that is not direct compensation is fair game.

Djeet

Honestly, your boss fucked up. Not only is it just dumb (tactically) to be talking about other employees' comp, it's likely to hurt morale (now you're questioning if the boss was lying to you about affordability of your raise), and is IMO very unprofessional unless you (the 3rd party) are also involved in the decision-making process of how the AGM is compensated.

I would just file away the info away (that AGM got a $100/pay period raise) and forget about why the boss might be giving out raises and his justification for not giving you one. Dwelling on that is just going to piss you off.

When the discussion next quarter rolls around you don't really need to lead with "AGM got a $100/check raise when you said you couldn't afford it". You can focus on what you provide for the company and where you're stepping into the breach if such is relevant.

It's almost always bad news when people learn what their coworkers are getting paid. People get butthurt and resentful, and they focus on what others are getting paid instead of what they themselves bring to the table. Not saying you're doing that, just my experience from when that info has gotten out.

Daimar

First of all, nepotism is a fact of life in small and medium sized companies, it's not always a bad thing and in most cases if a family member is truly hurting the business they will be shown the door, they just have more leeway before it gets to that though.

As for your raise I'd say just sit on it for now since you've already agreed to let it go until the 2nd quarter. Bringing it back up now will probably not be taken well so just go with what was agreed upon.

Just to play a bit of devil's advocate, it doesn't sound like you see the full financials, so while sales are up and stock may be moving well there could be other issues such as cash flow coming in being slow, a loan payment may be coming due, or big suppliers needing payment faster that could also be affecting the business and ability to give out raises. Cash is much more important than revenue it is possible that the record sales don't tell the whole story.

darqness

Thanks everyone. My gut was to put it away, as bringing up "family member gets paid x" as a bargaining chip would most likely end up in a huge mess. This is a guy who is a pathalogical liar, and I think he knew he had fucked up right after he mentioned the raise. I don't foresee this family member sticking around for long anyways, which will make my stock go up even more once they're gone.

Skypoint

Putting it away seems the right thing to do. It could be (and probably is) nepotism related, but there could be an honest reason such as the boss having promised to give the son-in-law a raise after x amount of time when the guy started.

Zenitram

It sounds like you have a great thing going at the company, I wouldn't risk anything by bringing it up. You might be out of a raise for one year but it sounds like you are well compensated and taken care of in other ways.

schuss

Alternatively, if you have a good relationship with him, you may just want to meet with him and ask "what goals do I need to hit to get the next raise?" As it keeps it professional and lets both of you come out of the conversation and eventual raise as winners.

Dr. Frenchenstein

is there any sort of HR department? i wouldn't go there right now or anything, but if QTR 2 rolls around, and still no bump for you (without explanation) your manager is clearly not the right person to speak to with your concerns. if this is a small place, where he pretty much IS the HR department, you need to do a little soul searching if this is a place where you want to work. if the guy in question might be leaving soon, it may be no big deal.

Reverend_Chaos

Sounds to me like he couldn't afford to give you a raise, because he gave your raise to his Son-in-law. I too would sit on it, but I would certainly be knocking on that door come second Quarter.

ArbitraryDescriptor

Reverend_Chaos wrote: »

Sounds to me like he couldn't afford to give you a raise, because he gave your raise to his Son-in-law. I too would sit on it, but I would certainly be knocking on that door come second Quarter.

Don't "sit on it". Forget about it.

He basically chipped in $50/week for his grandchild's daycare. I would absolutely follow up on the promises he made, but that little factoid is never going to be leverage for you.

Reverend_Chaos

ArbitraryDesrip is absolutely right. When I said "sit on it" I meant the situation. Knowing that the Son-in-law got a raise and not you does not help you in any way. Even mentioning it might put the owner on the defensive.

ceres

If you were going to say something, I think that's the sort of thing you have to do at the time of the slip. I wouldn't say you should never do it, but it has to be in the moment. If you go back and say "Listen I've been letting your random slip of the tongue fester in my brain for a week and I think..." you will look like a huge tool. And make no mistake, whatever words you actually use, that's what it would sound like to your boss.

Basically, by the time you made the thread your moment had long passed.

V1m

darqness wrote: »

I have a business ethics question:

Backstory: I am the general manager for a substantially sized musical instrument dealer. I've been with the company for several years, and in this position for over 5 years (last I remember). Each year I've received a $2500.00 raise.

During my review in January my boss told me that because the year started out slow and he couldn't afford it he was delaying a raise until the 2nd quarter. I know he can afford it as I manage the business and know what's coming in/going out and we just got off our best year ever with a 20% increase. I understand however that you don't want to create a larger liability for the company if things go to shit. He did give me a $500.00 bonus check (I had already received a $1000.00 bonus and iPad Mini for Christmas bonus as well).

Well today I go over several big mistakes that the assistant general manager had made and spoke with my boss regarding these mistakes and during our conversation he said "...that's bullsh*t too since I just gave him a $2600.00 raise!". I didn't say anything at the moment, but now I'm wondering if I should bring it up with him. To complicate matters, this employee is his son-in-law who is just about to have a his first baby. I like the guy, however he's working in a business where he makes a lot of mistakes because he has absolutely no experience with this type of job. I don't have much of a problem forgetting it and chalking it up to nepotism, but it does bother me. Should I say anything about it or just forget it?

This isn't a case of I logged into Quickbooks and saw who got a raise and who didn't, as I KNOW that's a losing battle and sure way to get fired. I though since he brought it up however that it would be more acceptable to say it.

Honestly after reading this I'm thinking just put it to bed and look forward to a raise in the 2nd quarter.

Here is V1m's quick guideline to determine if you're getting a raise

Did you get the promise in writing?
-> Yes -> You might get a raise
-> No -> Ahahahaha you're never getting a raise

DevoutlyApathetic

V1m wrote: »

darqness wrote: »

I have a business ethics question:

Backstory: I am the general manager for a substantially sized musical instrument dealer. I've been with the company for several years, and in this position for over 5 years (last I remember). Each year I've received a $2500.00 raise.

During my review in January my boss told me that because the year started out slow and he couldn't afford it he was delaying a raise until the 2nd quarter. I know he can afford it as I manage the business and know what's coming in/going out and we just got off our best year ever with a 20% increase. I understand however that you don't want to create a larger liability for the company if things go to shit. He did give me a $500.00 bonus check (I had already received a $1000.00 bonus and iPad Mini for Christmas bonus as well).

Well today I go over several big mistakes that the assistant general manager had made and spoke with my boss regarding these mistakes and during our conversation he said "...that's bullsh*t too since I just gave him a $2600.00 raise!". I didn't say anything at the moment, but now I'm wondering if I should bring it up with him. To complicate matters, this employee is his son-in-law who is just about to have a his first baby. I like the guy, however he's working in a business where he makes a lot of mistakes because he has absolutely no experience with this type of job. I don't have much of a problem forgetting it and chalking it up to nepotism, but it does bother me. Should I say anything about it or just forget it?

This isn't a case of I logged into Quickbooks and saw who got a raise and who didn't, as I KNOW that's a losing battle and sure way to get fired. I though since he brought it up however that it would be more acceptable to say it.

Honestly after reading this I'm thinking just put it to bed and look forward to a raise in the 2nd quarter.

Here is V1m's quick guideline to determine if you're getting a raise

Did you get the promise in writing?
-> Yes -> You might get a raise
-> No -> Ahahahaha you're never getting a raise

Yea, except the fourth sentence where he talks about getting a raise each year for the last five.

Boss was clearly blowing smoke but unless something else has massively changed from his previous behavior there isn't a great reason to think he won't resume.

Also a point to consider is that when businesses have much bigger years it does indeed sometimes lead to cash crunches because of the lag between payment for orders. I guess this really is about if "dealer" is like wholesaler or retailer though.

darqness

I guess this can be left open in case any one has anything else to add, as I do like the different perspectives. I'm just going to forget it, as @ceres is right: I should have caught it at the moment of the slip up IF I wanted to say anything. Come 2nd quarter I'll request a raise if business is still increasing. I don't want to over-value myself, but I essentially run the entire operation which allows him to come and go as he pleases, take vacations whenever, and do whatever dickery he pleases. He would get very defensive if I brought it up as "son-in-law got a raise, where's mine???".

@skypoint: I honestly think that you might have hit the nail on the head. It's most likely that he did promise the son-in-law a raise which negated mine.

Will concentrate on sales increases so I can make my case for the raise! Thanks everyone.

bowen

Personally, if you don't get the raise I'd bring up the fact that you've found errors and are continually catching them, increasing revenue for his business with your new procedures and practices. Make it about how you being there makes him more money. It makes it hard for him to rationalize you away as "meh you don't produce me anymore money than usual."

Maguano

raises and bonuses should never be considered a given regardless of how often they've been received in the past.

bowen

Maguano wrote: »

raises and bonuses should never be considered a given regardless of how often they've been received in the past.

While yes, you're right, but the way money works, if you don't get a raise, you're essentially getting a paycut.

zepherin

bowen wrote: »

Maguano wrote: »

raises and bonuses should never be considered a given regardless of how often they've been received in the past.

While yes, you're right, but the way money works, if you don't get a raise, you're essentially getting a paycut.

And more to the point if you don't get a raise and you are good at what you do, you can find someone who will pay you what your worth.