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Pinny Pal Community Thread 2.0 - Please read the first post :)

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    thx42thx42 SeattleRegistered User regular
    Question about pin value. I know pinmash is what is generally advised to noobs as it is a rough estimate of value. But at PAX I was finding a few veterans who said not to take it as gospel. So what other methods are there to figure out value? How do the veterans know the value of a pin without even looking it up on a site or list?

    Also, I understand why DLC is prized, it is limited and few got it prior the pin trading bug. But why are the most recent KS ones seemingly super valuable, because didn't they have plenty of them and in some cases didn't use them all on backers?

    You can watch what pins sell for on eBay.

    People will say it all just comes down to how much one person likes a pin, but there's many real factors that can impact a pin's value -
    • Print run / limited edition
    • Original cost / difficulty to obtain
    • How long ago
    • Aus vs US
    • Appeal outside of pin trading community
    • Cats

    This is how I personally see the relative values, I'm sure other people will have different opinions -

    Tier 1
    DLC

    Tier 2
    DSB Merch

    Tier 3
    Aus Kemper, Aus 13 Logo, Aus Gabe, Aus Tycho
    Aus 10th Year
    Hanna
    Leeroy Jenkins
    Gold Overwatch
    Automata Kickstarter

    Tier 4
    PAX Kemper, East 13 Logo, Handheld Lounge Gabe, Tabletop Tycho
    D&D, Tiamat
    Prime 10th Year, East 10th Year
    Ellie
    Star Trek
    Hearthstone
    Carl Kickstarter, Carl
    Dark Place Brian
    South Polygon, East Polygon, Prime Polygon
    Vault Boy
    Chandra 2
    Twitch Glitch, Kappa

    Tier 5
    Most other pins

    Tier 6
    Fodder

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    JuicesirJuicesir The Boy with the D&D Tattoo Registered User regular
    I think Automata Kickstarter and Dark Brian might switch Tiers, but otherwise I generally agree. It's just gonna take time to sort out where the worth of those falls and to what degree the rarity is.

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    Capt WasabiCapt Wasabi AustraliaRegistered User regular
    Do we have any agreement on what fodder is?
    Since you cant get lookouts any more are they still fodder?

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    MadkineMadkine AustraliaRegistered User regular
    edited September 2015
    Since you cant get lookouts any more are they still fodder?

    They aren't for those of us who started after they were discontinued.

    Madkine on
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    surettesurette kill the switch Boston, MARegistered User regular
    edited September 2015
    Do we have any agreement on what fodder is?
    Since you cant get lookouts any more are they still fodder?
    Basically just anything that is always available/unlimited. It was Core 1.0 and Lookouts, but now that those have been discontinued it's basically just Core 2.0. The reason Lookouts were considered the "best" fodder is that you got six pins for $30, as opposed to four for $30, like most other sets. That made them the easy choice for using for staff trading events and whatnot.

    surette on
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    BrushwoodMuttBrushwoodMutt Registered User regular
    If I may ask (and I really am just trying to understand this, but there seem to be a lot of subjective elements which my mind might not be grasping properly), so why is the Tyto pin so low? It had a small run, it was hard to get, it has a decent design compared to Twitch and Kappa who have those same qualities but are nuch higher? (trying to use similar situations, or is it a difference in fanbase in and out of pin traders, like Vault Boy, DnD, Hearthstone being incredibly valuable because fewer are in circulation?)

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    Spokane_SnowManSpokane_SnowMan Registered User regular
    If I may ask (and I really am just trying to understand this, but there seem to be a lot of subjective elements which my mind might not be grasping properly), so why is the Tyto pin so low? It had a small run, it was hard to get, it has a decent design compared to Twitch and Kappa who have those same qualities but are nuch higher? (trying to use similar situations, or is it a difference in fanbase in and out of pin traders, like Vault Boy, DnD, Hearthstone being incredibly valuable because fewer are in circulation?)
    It was actually easier to get then many people assume. You could do selfies for it, or you could simply ask people leaving the demo for their cards. 95% of them were just there for the shirt and you could get 5 cards in a matter of minutes.

    Combine with lower desire/fandom. There ya go.

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    BrushwoodMuttBrushwoodMutt Registered User regular
    So is it impossible to truly figure out the value of pax pins till after the fact? Because it seemed like Rockband went from a decent pin to a highly sought after one.

    I'm asking this one because I'm still at the stage where most of my trades are done with pins I got at prime with many trades occuring then from said pins. And the value of some pins during that time frame is very different from their value after the fact, some being higher and others lower than different estimates I overhead or was told. (Again using pinmash to look at these stats, is that my problem?)

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    Spokane_SnowManSpokane_SnowMan Registered User regular
    So is it impossible to truly figure out the value of pax pins till after the fact? Because it seemed like Rockband went from a decent pin to a highly sought after one.

    I'm asking this one because I'm still at the stage where most of my trades are done with pins I got at prime with many trades occuring then from said pins. And the value of some pins during that time frame is very different from their value after the fact, some being higher and others lower than different estimates I overhead or was told. (Again using pinmash to look at these stats, is that my problem?)

    It is a fluid situation. Rock Band became popular because they ran out of pins mid day Sunday. So anyone who was a pin collector, who did not have one, became a lot more willing to fork out higher quality pins to get one. I had 5 or 6 at the pin trade panel and traded all my spares to other pin collectors in line for some decent stuff.

    Ubisoft also ran out of Rainbow 6 pins late Sunday, then only had a couple more Monday morning and then were gone.

    I went to Fallout first thing Friday morning. It wasn't incredibly busy. In fact they didn't even have a set line yet. I just walked up and was 2nd in line. Saturday, Sunday, Monday was a whole nother story.

    In the end, try not to get too wrapped up in what is "valuable" and trade what you are comfortable with for what you want. Hell, I traded a Vault Boy for 2x other buy pins that were still in stock and available to purchase on Monday to some guy who just wanted a Vault Boy. I could have gotten better pins for it, or money after the show. But I was content to just get two other pins without spending more money and made someone happy.

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    thx42thx42 SeattleRegistered User regular
    So is it impossible to truly figure out the value of pax pins till after the fact? Because it seemed like Rockband went from a decent pin to a highly sought after one.

    I'm asking this one because I'm still at the stage where most of my trades are done with pins I got at prime with many trades occuring then from said pins. And the value of some pins during that time frame is very different from their value after the fact, some being higher and others lower than different estimates I overhead or was told. (Again using pinmash to look at these stats, is that my problem?)

    I suppose there's no easy answer. Valuing pins at a PAX is something of a game. You have to use all the information available to you to guess what the current or future value of a pin is. As PAX progresses, it becomes clearer how difficult any given pin is to get. You also get a feel for which ones people like the most.

    Rock Band shouldn't have been anything special, but once they ran out, it's value went up a lot. If someone didn't hear that they were all gone, they might not have valued it as highly as they should have.

    When I was at the Behemoth vending machines, I bought a bunch of pins without looking too closely at them. Someone came up to me and asked if I had a Rainbow Horse to trade. I rummaged around and found one and traded it to them. Only later did I realize that I had gotten fewer of the Rainbow Horse than other pins, and also, it seemed to be the one everyone was looking for. If I had been paying closer attention to things, I wouldn't have traded it away so easily.

    I was able to purchase quite a few Vault Boys, but I probably valued them a little too low when trading them away. It's not really that big a deal, but it was a mis-estimation on my part.

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    dmosineedmosinee Davenport, IARegistered User regular
    or is it a difference in fanbase in and out of pin traders, like Vault Boy, DnD, Hearthstone being incredibly valuable because fewer are in circulation?

    Bingo, it's not about the total number out there -- it's about the number that are actually in circulation in the greater pin community (which is more than just this forum). Compare Ellie and Clicker -- both were runs of 1k, made by the same company, characters from the same game. Ellie is a high tier pin running in the same crowds as the PAX shields, The Order, or even Hanna to the right trader -- meanwhile pretty much no one gives a flying crap about Clicker at all. Granted the clicker design is awful, but that alone isn't enough to account for the disparity. The big factor is that many, perhaps even most, of the Ellie pins were picked up by non-collectors (or very casual collectors who don't trade) at East 2014 and taken out of circulation permanently so there aren't enough to go round for all the collectors -- whereas I'd venture to say that pretty much every single Clicker that actually sold went straight to pin people, and 1k is way more than enough for anyone who cares enough about completion to order third party pins online to get one.

    The extreme example of this is Overwatch Gold, which carries the highest trade weight of any single pin outside of the DLC and Blind Merch (which are special cases). We have it on good authority that Blizzard handed out almost all of the 1k they had made, it's not part of some beloved IP that people are attached to, and frankly from a purely aesthetic point of view it doesn't even look as good as Overwatch Common; so why is it so valuable?

    Answer is because a big majority of those 1k pins went to skilled FPS gamers that were able to win the demo rounds, who later threw the pin in a dusty drawer and forgot about it. There was no real way for dedicated pin people to collect extras (or even their first one!) unless they were very skilled at team shooters and had time to farm the 2-3 hour line. End result being that the entire community of collectors was left to fight over the 200 (just a guess) pins that actually entered circulation one way or another.

    Digital Lanyard, I love trades - https://www.pinnypals.com/pals/dmosinee
    http://pinmash.info - Two pins enter, one pins leaves... then the other pin leaves with a lower Elo rating
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    00Fayt0000Fayt00 Registered User regular
    So is it impossible to truly figure out the value of pax pins till after the fact? Because it seemed like Rockband went from a decent pin to a highly sought after one.

    I'm asking this one because I'm still at the stage where most of my trades are done with pins I got at prime with many trades occuring then from said pins. And the value of some pins during that time frame is very different from their value after the fact, some being higher and others lower than different estimates I overhead or was told. (Again using pinmash to look at these stats, is that my problem?)

    I understand using PinMash as something to help with your estimation of value on pins, but for the pins from the PAX that is currently ongoing, or that has just recently been compelted within the last 3-4 months it can't be used as a reliable source. You have to remember that PinMash ratings are made by the community, but valuing one pin over another, and thus it will take time for a pin from a certain show to be valued higher on the PinMash ratings.

    I believe that when he built PinMash he tried to make it so that even if a pin had less "clicks" that it could still get bumped up the valuable rating, but still it will take a few months before Prime's pins can be reliably looked at for positioning.

    Don't worry, you'll learn which pins you value over others through time. You'll make some bad trades, you'll make some good trades based on value..but eventually you'll get to the point where you know which pins you value higher, and you'll be able to make trades without trying to use PinMash as a crutch. In the end it is the pins that you enjoy, and the pins that the other person enjoy, that bring a fair trade around. Obviously, Veteran trades hopefully usually do the right thing and don't take advantage of someone not knowing that a pins is more or less valuable. For example I saw a trade happen at PAX(I barely saw the end of it) where a newer trader traded a Aus Shield for a Kemper with a veteran trader...and it kinda made me a bit disappointed because they have been around for a while and know better in my mind. :/

    Also, if you ever have a question about pin trading fairness at PAX, call in a second opinion. There are so many traders around that if you think you are getting duped on something that calling in a second opinion never hurts!

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    BrushwoodMuttBrushwoodMutt Registered User regular
    Yeah I know that and I have yet to make a trade I regretted because I got pins I wanted and so did they, which is an awesome part of the community which I enjoy so much. Plus I feel like I may have made a few friends, well pin trading friends don't know if that is the same thing. But because I still have few pins, I need to worry about value to get other pins. I'm not trying to be a completionist, partly because it would drive me insane and partly because there are quite a few pins I have zero interest in (ex most behemoth stuff, especially the new stuff), but there are still plenty of high value pins I would want. Examples: DLC (of course, but super white whale), AUS Kemper, Hanna, Shields (maybe, haven't decided if I want all the polys), ect. And to get those, I do need to offer "high value" to them. :P

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    HingoHingo Minneapolis, MNRegistered User regular
    Trade high, buy low.

    Long answer: the majority of this hobby is subjective. I personally think the Tyto pin was the best looking pin of Prime, and have no idea why it isn't valued more. In response to that, I'm just going to wait it out. Once AUS happens, and maybe if I go to South, we'll see if the perceived value of Tyto has increased. The almost undeniable truth for any PAX though is that Time Sink pins >>> purchase+non time sink pins. Vault Boy was the worst - time sink AND purchase, along with being a popular figure outside of just the pinny arcade community. Kappa was valuable as a time sink pin. I traded mine for 4 fodder pins, then up-traded them at the staff table during the trading event (2x Valentine's Day pins, 2012 CTS, and an extra Tyto). Eventually, you will be in a position where you can up-trade for a "better" value pin, but the person you are trading is totally happy with that because they got the pin(s) they wanted. Also, you will later be in that person's shoes, and trade that Hanna for a Hearthstone pin, because you're sick of people that won't trade the damned thing for anything else.

    Pins for trade!
    2015 PAX Prime Omeganaut (I will forever hate Katamari)
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    D0rkAnglD0rkAngl Lynnwood, WARegistered User regular
    Hingo wrote: »
    Also, you will later be in that person's shoes, and trade that Hanna for a Hearthstone pin, because you're sick of people that won't trade the damned thing for anything else.

    I still don't have a D&D ampersand, grumble...

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    giantrygiantry Registered User regular
    "D0rkAngl wrote: »

    I still don't have a D&D ampersand, grumble...

    I got mine from trading a star trek pin :)

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    Count3DCount3D Count Vancouver, BCRegistered User regular
    Hi, I'm Count3D. I think I met some of you at PAX Prime this year, I managed to squeak into the overflow overflow room at the official Pinny trading evening event. I started collecting when they first came out in 2013 and have managed to get every Prime pin from 2013 and 2015. Hoping to trade for some stuff on PinnyPals. Really impressed by how the community has sprung up in such a short amount of time.

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    NopeNope Frankfort, KYRegistered User regular
    Count3D wrote: »
    Hi, I'm Count3D. I think I met some of you at PAX Prime this year, I managed to squeak into the overflow overflow room at the official Pinny trading evening event. I started collecting when they first came out in 2013 and have managed to get every Prime pin from 2013 and 2015. Hoping to trade for some stuff on PinnyPals. Really impressed by how the community has sprung up in such a short amount of time.

    DOM! Welcome to the Pinny Fold! :)

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    Count3DCount3D Count Vancouver, BCRegistered User regular
    Nope wrote: »
    DOM! Welcome to the Pinny Fold! :)

    Thanks, Nick. Nice to see a familiar face.

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    PedroAsaniPedroAsani Brotherhood of the Squirrel [Prime]Registered User regular
    Question about pin value. I know pinmash is what is generally advised to noobs as it is a rough estimate of value. But at PAX I was finding a few veterans who said not to take it as gospel. So what other methods are there to figure out value? How do the veterans know the value of a pin without even looking it up on a site or list?

    Also, I understand why DLC is prized, it is limited and few got it prior the pin trading bug. But why are the most recent KS ones seemingly super valuable, because didn't they have plenty of them and in some cases didn't use them all on backers?

    For me, I use the pinmash as a starting point, and then impose my own rankings based on:
    • How many I have in my bag
    • What I'm missing from the current convention
    • The person I'm trading with
    • How much my feet hurt
    • How tired my wife is
    • Are they asking to split a Set

    I traded a lot of Aussie Pins near the end of the Prime night, and probably should have asked for more if I was going on just the community values. But I'm still well ahead of the game, and I think my total spare Pin count was up by the end, because a lot of rarer Pins went 2:1 or more for Prime 2015 stuff.

    Pinmash is still in it's infancy, and whilst it is a good barometer going into a PAX, during a PAX new Pins are released that radically alter the values on there. We likely won't see that stabilise until just before South. And we have another Aus on the way, which will shake it up further.

    Use it as the starting point, and work out what values you are going to use to adjust the list in your head.

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    redfield85redfield85 Registered User regular
    Ever go back to your keeper pins and just think "Meh. I'd trade/sell them now?" I am doing that with my full East 2013 set (East set + Chandra). Do you guys consider those more valuable in a trade (minus all the rankings listed above this post heh).

    Don't get me wrong, I like the original set. I just feel like I need to slim down my collection and have more pins for trading. Plus, I am not going to have a billion display cases, so this would help with that (and spending money to get pins since I could trade).

    bYf6vNQ.png
    Tumblr | Twitter | Twitch | Pinny Arcade Lanyard
    [3DS] 3394-3901-4002 | [Xbox/Steam] Redfield85
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    Sammy.SamSammy.Sam Registered User regular
    I'm looking for an East 2013 set. Would gladly trade for it. Here is my lanyard: https://www.pinnypals.com/pals/Sammy.Sam

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    daledenton420daledenton420 Rhode IslandRegistered User regular
    going along with BrushwoodMatt: I personally believe value is in the eye of the holder. I traded a Star trek pin at prime least year for 2 of the behemoth animals from 2 years ago. Why? I could have gotten more for that star trek pin because of the "rarity" but i didnt care for it. (not a HUGE star trek fan.) Do I feel like it was a bad trade? not really because i got 2 ive been wanting for a while and got rid of one i got for free. It wasnt a time sink since i was first 20 in line. Obviously that star trek shot up in rarity because more people wanted it and yes i could have held onto it for a while longer to keep the value but ehh why do that. Pax is meant to have fun and trade away!

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    gn0xgn0x Arizona, USARegistered User regular
    edited September 2015
    @MaxMonkey - Please hit me up regarding our trade!

    gn0x on
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    Sammy.SamSammy.Sam Registered User regular
    It appears they have a PA account by the same name. Have you tried contacting them here, in addition to pinnypals?

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    gn0xgn0x Arizona, USARegistered User regular
    Sammy.Sam wrote: »
    It appears they have a PA account by the same name. Have you tried contacting them here, in addition to pinnypals?

    I'd searched the forum, but apparently missed the search for user. trying that route as well. :)

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    redfield85redfield85 Registered User regular
    Anyone know if they are going to restock the pin bags in the PA store? Kind of wanted to grab one for the GF (making her a secret collection for Xmas). Would've liked to put her stuff in an official bag.

    bYf6vNQ.png
    Tumblr | Twitter | Twitch | Pinny Arcade Lanyard
    [3DS] 3394-3901-4002 | [Xbox/Steam] Redfield85
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    aleph0aleph0 Registered User regular
    I think it's temporary pulled pending investigation into the issue with the eyes rubbing off. They probably still have them in stock.

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    redfield85redfield85 Registered User regular
    Wah? These bags?

    pinbags_white_medium.jpg?v=1439241882

    bYf6vNQ.png
    Tumblr | Twitter | Twitch | Pinny Arcade Lanyard
    [3DS] 3394-3901-4002 | [Xbox/Steam] Redfield85
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    evanephrineevanephrine ev-an-eff-rinn Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    Yep, something about the treatment the inner pages received and it not being cured long enough by the manufacturer. I'm sure they'll be back soon though!

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    TheRightStoffTheRightStoff Registered User regular
    aleph0 wrote: »
    I think it's temporary pulled pending investigation into the issue with the eyes rubbing off. They probably still have them in stock.

    Most of my pins are currently stored in one of those bags. Is that a bad idea? Does airing it out help? I leave mine open in "display mode".

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    fishfishmonkeyhatfishfishmonkeyhat Freelance Pin Man Newcastle, AustraliaRegistered User regular
    Ja71Y2z.jpg

    Thanks @Ayefkay.

    And thanks to Katie and @AdamRW as well!

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    D0rkAnglD0rkAngl Lynnwood, WARegistered User regular
    I messaged @Manic2k about getting on the the Enthusiast list and haven't see anything ... (not that that matters a lot, I suppose, since there aren't any enthusiast applications for the other paxen yet).

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    BrushwoodMuttBrushwoodMutt Registered User regular
    Figured this might be a better discussion here then in the Trade post. How many sets, third party, current, and/or decommissioned PA, do you think it take to equal an Aus 2013 Set? (Since some trades want to keep them as a set even while trading)

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    SennoSenno AustraliaRegistered User regular
    The Aus set is worth about $US400. As for trades, it is worth about 50 pins, a few should be limited.

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    Sammy.SamSammy.Sam Registered User regular
    I think 50 is DLC territory not Aus 2013 pins (which I take to mean the 4 PA pins, does not include Aus Chandra). I think a 2 or 3 to 1 trade is fair. It wouldn't be fodder pins of course, rather a mix of LE's and high value pins. Though even with all fodder pins 50 is too high.

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    aleph0aleph0 Registered User regular
    Maybe Senno meant 50 for all four Aus 13 pins. That works out to be 12.5 per pin, which is still a little much I think, but definitely more reasonable than 50 per pin.

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    BrushwoodMuttBrushwoodMutt Registered User regular
    When I say Aus 2013 set I'm just referring to the 4 PA Pins, ie Upsidedown Kemper, Gabe, Tycho, and Aus 2013 Logo. So if I may clarify, 50 total fodder pins might be worth the set? Or is he saying 50 fodder plus higher value pins?

    And then do the We Love Fine pins count as fodder? And do the no-longer sold PA sets count as fodder?

    If the former is the case, then saying it will cost about $400 dollars isn't an exaggeration. And I understand it is hard to say for certain, because it differs from trader to trader, but if I can at least get an idea I know where to start I know how much of a money sink it might be. Because again, even if it is expensive, fodder pins are the easiest sets to get to try and do these trades.

    Once again though, thanks for the help thus far and in advance ^ ^

    P.S. I assume it is 50 different mid to high value for DLC? Not that I'm gunning for a DLC yet.

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    SennoSenno AustraliaRegistered User regular
    50 total for 4 pins. And that's pretty reasonable. You could probably get it for 40 fodder. The 2013 Aus pins go for about $100USD each. I'm working on a ratio of $10AUD per pin. The most recent sale on Ebay was for $560 for a intact set.

    The DLC is much harder to come by, and as a general rule, it's worth more than the Aus 2013 set.

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    BrushwoodMuttBrushwoodMutt Registered User regular
    Thanks, that helps gauge what I need to shoot for those who wish to only keep them traded as a set.

    And yeah I know the DLC is hard and extremely valuable to many. Hence why with my small collection, I'm not at the point where I can gun for it. But like many it is still on my radar for a possible future trade ;3

    Plus it's kind of cool and scary how this has only been a thing for 3 years and has already exploded into a full on community.

This discussion has been closed.