The Amazing Spider-Thread

ElJeffe

Hey hey hey!

This is a thread for discussing that new movie about spiders and men and how amazing they are. Please don't discuss Spider-Man in the MCU thread, because Spider-Man is not MCU, has nothing to do with the movies that are MCU, and gains nothing by being discussed there.

Here is a random picture of Spider-Man I found so the thread doesn't seem quite so lazy:

Dark Raven X

I dunno how I feel about the trend of misleading trailers. Iron Man 3 did it real well, having alternate takes on lines, just little tweaks on delivery to make the implied tone totally different from the actual movie, we went in expecting grimdark and got the opposite. ASM2 does misleading trailers for no real reason, because they still blew the whole plot...

But also including a buncha lines that aren't in the movie, it's no real big deal on it's own but it still feels like a bait and switch. The biggest missing scene I noticed was the bit where Harry sits Peter down and tells him he was under survellaince. That seemed like a big deal.

Also it was neat how Rhino was implied to be the first thing in the movie, and we all assumed he was some one shot quickie in the intro, and then he was surprise the ending! But gaah, I hate that, seeing the ending in a trailer. Rec pulled it infamously, and it was disappointing there too. :I

Kyougu

I enjoyed the first one more than most people (though still feel like if you combined the first Raimi movie and the first Amazing movie you would have a perfect Spidey film) so I was liking forward to this one.

The early word of mouth is having me worried though. Specially details of the plot that have come out.

Golden Yak

ElJeffe wrote: »

Here is a random picture of Spider-Man I found so the thread doesn't seem quite so lazy:

You're not fooling anyone.

I wasn't especially looking forwards to this movie one way or another until seeing Winter Soldier and catching the big new trailer. There's gonna be some pretty awesome spectacle in it at least, and I can deal with virtually any amount of bad movie as long as there's something for my eyes to look at once my brain dis-engages. Just like how I got through the Transformers films.

I'm really interested to see if anyone's learned their lesson about dealing with multiple villains yet - I'm convinced it can be done as along as at least one of them is treated as a mook or as a secret extra final boss, and from what I see in the trailers they may be doing just that.

klemming

Golden Yak wrote: »

I'm really interested to see if anyone's learned their lesson about dealing with multiple villains yet - I'm convinced it can be done as along as at least one of them is treated as a mook or as a secret extra final boss, and from what I see in the trailers they may be doing just that.

Cap 2 related stuff:

AFAIK, there's three bad guys in this one. Cap 2 had more than that, and handled it well.
There was Batroc as C-list fodder, Crossbones and Winter Soldier as two different levels of henchmen to the main bad guy, who I don't think had an actual comic counterpart (was Pierce in any comic stories?).
On top of that, there was a cameo from Zola, who got plenty of credit for the setup, but wasn't really a 'current' villain.

So it might be tough, but it's definitely possible.
I do think they could stand to cut one of them, though.
Considering they're talking about doing things with Venom/Carnage/Sinister Six, I feel like they're trying to copy the MCU, but haven't really grasped how long it takes to set all those elements up.

Golden Yak

Yea, Cap 2 is a good example.

Batroc was used early and we got him out of the way quick as a means to showcase the main hero's abilities. I'm hoping they do the same with Rhino - a big showy fight at the beginning, then he's shut down and we don't see him again.

Then Electro throughout, and finally Harry as the final baddie once Electro is shut down and most people are thinking the film's about to wrap-up. Surprise! Green Goblin.

I'd be perfectly happy to have a Sinister Six story with most of them not being explored terribly deeply. We can even start out with all of them in jail, having fought and been defeated by Spidey between films. The suggestion of deep continuity without needing to fully showcase it all.

Even bring back Lizard, Rhino, Electro, and the Goblin from the previous films along with new villains - presumably Vulture and Doc Ock going by the ASM2 trailer.

Brainiac 8

So assuming they do a Sinister Six story, would they do it in the next movie or in Spidey 4?

I figure they have:

Green Goblin
Electro
Rhino
Lizard

So will they attempt to force in two more villains while also making them share the spotlight, or will we get two more thrown at Spidey and then put them in the fourth movie.

We still have several villains that would fit:

Dr. Octopus
Mysterio
Vulture
Kraven the Hunter
The Jackal

Personally I would love to see them avoid any other villains that have been in the other movie. If they wanted two more villains I would love to see the next movie revolve around Mysterio with a team up with the Vulture.

It would be an awesome movie then. :P

Ziggymon

Golden Yak wrote: »

ElJeffe wrote: »

Here is a random picture of Spider-Man I found so the thread doesn't seem quite so lazy:

You're not fooling anyone.

I wasn't especially looking forwards to this movie one way or another until seeing Winter Soldier and catching the big new trailer. There's gonna be some pretty awesome spectacle in it at least, and I can deal with virtually any amount of bad movie as long as there's something for my eyes to look at once my brain dis-engages. Just like how I got through the Transformers films.

I'm really interested to see if anyone's learned their lesson about dealing with multiple villains yet - I'm convinced it can be done as along as at least one of them is treated as a mook or as a secret extra final boss, and from what I see in the trailers they may be doing just that.

The answer is really a yes and a no:

Electro is the villain that has the most screen time and yet is really a very dull 1 note character. Whats annoying is that he has promise at the start of the film but regresses and changes tone for no real reason and then just becomes a special effect excuse. Also what I hated is that the 2 battles with spider-man in the film, there seems to be no real sense of danger throughout despite the whole tone of the trailers and promos going on about how he is an enemy more powerful than spider-man. Green goblin essentially is a 5 minute cameo boss in a videogame that feels incredibly rushed and cliche (they literally fight in a clock tower). Rhino is basically an epilogue battle intro that cuts out to credits at the very scene you see in the trailers.

You know after taking a few days to let the film sink in, i'm feeling more and more upset about the whole film. It might be a fun dumb hollywood movie when you are watching it but afterwards you feel like its just a bad film full stop.

Golden Yak

Brainiac 8 wrote: »

0So will they attempt to force in two more villains while also making them share the spotlight, or will we get two more thrown at Spidey and then put them in the fourth movie.

We still have several villains that would fit:

Dr. Octopus
Mysterio
Vulture
Kraven the Hunter
The Jackal

Going by the trailers

Vulture and Doc Ock are the most likely, given their gear is shown off.

I almost want a S6 movie to be in the vein of wacky villain antics like the current Spider-Foes comic, with everyone falling over themselves to backstab each other. Or something like Ocean's Eleven films with super-powers.

Ziggymon wrote: »

You know after taking a few days to let the film sink in, i'm feeling more and more upset about the whole film. It might be a fun dumb hollywood movie when you are watching it but afterwards you feel like its just a bad film full stop.

Bummer. Won't see it 'til may, but I think I'll still check it out. A fun dumb movie might be enough.

May's gonna be crazy for movies - SM2, Godzilla, X-Men, and Maleficent are all on my list. Actually, there's a shit-ton of movies I want to see between now and GOTG. Oughta help the time go by faster.

Maz-

I'm just gonna go ahead and c/p my post from the Marvel thread. Sorry for posting in the wrong thread, ElJeffe!


Brief, non-spoilery verdict: I really liked it! I was already a fan of the first one, but I think this one improved upon it considerably. Most of the film's problems are due to the fact that it's part of a trilogy / franchise / whatever so there's not as much closure as I would've hoped. Also, if you've seen the Spidey movies with Tobey Maguire, you'll inevitably feel like you've seen parts of this movie before.

More in-depth, spoilery talk:

The biggest surprise was obviously Gwen dying. Didn't expect that! I thought it was a pretty bold move, but I'm definitely gonna miss the chemistry between Andrew Garfield and Emma Stone - these two were amazing (heh) together. Sally Field was also pretty great.
Jamie Foxx fell a little flat unfortunately, but I guess there's not much you can really get out of the character. He's unfortunately fairly one-note after becoming Electro and his motivations are definitely a little weak. Same thing with the Goblin, really. He only got one, rather brief, scene where he fought Spidey, but I guess they're mostly saving him for the sequel.
I liked what they did with Rhino. From the trailers (and indeed from the beginning of the film itself) it seemed like Spidey was gonna quickly dispatch him in the first act, but it was a neat way to end the film. Also, it was pretty cool that they mocked the fact he is a robotic rhinozeros which, let's face it, is a pretty silly idea.

Like I said before, if you've seen the previous trilogy, some storylines will feel pretty familiar, especially the love story, since it plays out exactly the same way as before. "I love you so much, but I can't risk placing you in danger! Eh, you know what, fuck it, let's stay together anyway, you give me the strength to fight etc." Thankfully the actors are so good that it didn't annoy me too much.

I also thought the post-credits stinger was pretty weird. Why show a clip from X-Men instead of teasing the next Spider-Man film?

C2B

How in the world is Gwen dying a surprise? It would have been more of a surprise if they let her live through the movies.

Dark Raven X

C2B wrote: »

How in the world is Gwen dying a surprise? It would have been more of a surprise if they let her live through the movies.

Hey, she survived in the Raimi movies, and the first Amazing! Plus there was no Mary-Jane looming as a replacement. :P

Dunno about how it went down though - didn't feel like Spidey's fault at all, which feels like a big part of why it happens in the comic; he does some super heroics without thinking too clearly and it kills her. I read they filmed a buncha alternate takes for it, including one where Goblin just snapped her neck. :I

Bubby

Just please give me Carnage or a non-shitty Venom on-screen by ASM4. It's all I ask.

C2B

Dark Raven X wrote: »

C2B wrote: »

How in the world is Gwen dying a surprise? It would have been more of a surprise if they let her live through the movies.

Hey, she survived in the Raimi movies, and the first Amazing! Plus there was no Mary-Jane looming as a replacement. :P

Dunno about how it went down though - didn't feel like Spidey's fault at all, which feels like a big part of why it happens in the comic; he does some super heroics without thinking too clearly and it kills her. I read they filmed a buncha alternate takes for it, including one where Goblin just snapped her neck. :I

Raimi Gwen wasn't exactly Gwen

Maz-

C2B wrote: »

How in the world is Gwen dying a surprise? It would have been more of a surprise if they let her live through the movies.

Killing off the hero's love interest like that isn't exactly a common occurence, especially in a mainstream blockbuster movie like this one.

klemming

Maz- wrote: »

C2B wrote: »

How in the world is Gwen dying a surprise? It would have been more of a surprise if they let her live through the movies.

Killing off the hero's love interest like that isn't exactly a common occurence, especially in a mainstream blockbuster movie like this one.

This is really something they couldn't win.

Whether it's Gwen, MJ or someone else, there's the popular showdown image of Spider-Man, Green Goblin, and the girlfriend dying.
Don't do that, and it's seen as being 'soft' (I remember some comment about how they should have killed MJ in SM1).
Do that, and some will say it's just following the comics, killing the 'chick' off to give the hero some extra angst, and wasting a popular character for shock value.

Ziggymon

klemming wrote: »

Maz- wrote: »

C2B wrote: »

How in the world is Gwen dying a surprise? It would have been more of a surprise if they let her live through the movies.

Killing off the hero's love interest like that isn't exactly a common occurence, especially in a mainstream blockbuster movie like this one.

This is really something they couldn't win.

Whether it's Gwen, MJ or someone else, there's the popular showdown image of Spider-Man, Green Goblin, and the girlfriend dying.
Don't do that, and it's seen as being 'soft' (I remember some comment about how they should have killed MJ in SM1).
Do that, and some will say it's just following the comics, killing the 'chick' off to give the hero some extra angst, and wasting a popular character for shock value.

For me the problem with that plot point was that the whole thing was condensed right down to something like 5 minutes, the battle her death the whole thing is really short and loses all its impact as it just happens rather than there being a real sort of credible build up. What would have been better is if they had saved that whole bit for the next film.

Phillishere

Dark Raven X wrote: »

C2B wrote: »

How in the world is Gwen dying a surprise? It would have been more of a surprise if they let her live through the movies.

Hey, she survived in the Raimi movies, and the first Amazing! Plus there was no Mary-Jane looming as a replacement. :P

Dunno about how it went down though - didn't feel like Spidey's fault at all, which feels like a big part of why it happens in the comic; he does some super heroics without thinking too clearly and it kills her. I read they filmed a buncha alternate takes for it, including one where Goblin just snapped her neck. :I

They set up the reason for the guilt in the last movie. Her dad made him promise to keep his distance or he would get her hurt. He broke that promise and suffered the consequences.

Ziggymon

Phillishere wrote: »

Dark Raven X wrote: »

C2B wrote: »

How in the world is Gwen dying a surprise? It would have been more of a surprise if they let her live through the movies.

Hey, she survived in the Raimi movies, and the first Amazing! Plus there was no Mary-Jane looming as a replacement. :P

Dunno about how it went down though - didn't feel like Spidey's fault at all, which feels like a big part of why it happens in the comic; he does some super heroics without thinking too clearly and it kills her. I read they filmed a buncha alternate takes for it, including one where Goblin just snapped her neck. :I

They set up the reason for the guilt in the last movie. Her dad made him promise to keep his distance or he would get her hurt. He broke that promise and suffered the consequences.

Not really when not long before the final fight with Electro where Gwen helps, she says to Peter that she makes her own choices and decisions and doesn't want them made for her. Throughout the whole of this film he is trying to keep away from her, to keep the visions of her dad out of his head.

Archangle

Dark Raven X wrote: »

C2B wrote: »

How in the world is Gwen dying a surprise? It would have been more of a surprise if they let her live through the movies.

Hey, she survived in the Raimi movies, and the first Amazing! Plus there was no Mary-Jane looming as a replacement. :P

Dunno about how it went down though - didn't feel like Spidey's fault at all, which feels like a big part of why it happens in the comic; he does some super heroics without thinking too clearly and it kills her. I read they filmed a buncha alternate takes for it, including one where Goblin just snapped her neck. :I

Shailene Woodley of Divergent fame is cast as MJ, but her scenes were cut from the final edit (apparently they filmed a small bit on a motorcycle, but rumour has it she was seen as "too butch" so the footage never made it in).

Kroenen

I'd be perfectly happy to have a Sinister Six story with most of them not being explored terribly deeply. We can even start out with all of them in jail, having fought and been defeated by Spidey between films. The suggestion of deep continuity without needing to fully showcase it all.

Even bring back Lizard, Rhino, Electro, and the Goblin from the previous films along with new villains - presumably Vulture and Doc Ock going by the ASM2 trailer.

There was a long trailer I saw on TV a week ago that had a clip of that gallery in the trailer, but a few seconds later, showing off another locked down villain...This trailer(for some reason it doesn't want to inline...)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0qjJNPqVwsE

At 0:51, there's an odd, swirling black mass right after the Vulture's wings. I wonder...

Kyougu

Kroenen wrote: »

I'd be perfectly happy to have a Sinister Six story with most of them not being explored terribly deeply. We can even start out with all of them in jail, having fought and been defeated by Spidey between films. The suggestion of deep continuity without needing to fully showcase it all.

Even bring back Lizard, Rhino, Electro, and the Goblin from the previous films along with new villains - presumably Vulture and Doc Ock going by the ASM2 trailer.

There was a long trailer I saw on TV a week ago that had a clip of that gallery in the trailer, but a few seconds later, showing off another locked down villain...This trailer(for some reason it doesn't want to inline...)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0qjJNPqVwsE

At 0:51, there's an odd, swirling black mass right after the Vulture's wings. I wonder...

ASM2 light spoiler/easter egg:

Symbiotes get named dropped as something that Oscorp has been working on.

I'm not really to excited about a Venom movie UNLESS they take a cue from the current incarnation. Agent Venom would make an amazing flick.

Brainiac 8

Agent Venom would be an amazing movie.

I want them to at least start with making Venom a villain though.

Blackbird SR-71C

I haven't watched the movie, only read the wikipedia summary but from what I've seen they're going the Ultimate Universe route with something

MOVIE SPOILERS

Richard Parker worked on some kind of project oscorp wanted to use as a bioweapon, but he refused so they assassinated them. Symbiotes get name dropped and are shown in Oscorp's possession in the trailer.

In the Ultimate Universe comics Richard Parker and Edward Brock Sr. work on a cure on cancer, which would evolve into a full on, living suit "improving" a persons body - the Venom symbiote. In the comics it's not Oscorp but Trask industries that want to use the symbiote as a bioweapon, however. And while both Richard and Edward die in a plane crash I don't remember it being an assassination.

So no alien origin in this universe. Gwen Stacey's already dead so no Carnage killing Gwen either.

Also, Amazing Spider-Man 2 Video Game spoilers:

Carnage makes an appearance. Just like Rhino did in the first game. Maybe he'll also appear in the future.

DiannaoChong

Dark Raven X wrote: »

I dunno how I feel about the trend of misleading trailers. Iron Man 3 did it real well, having alternate takes on lines, just little tweaks on delivery to make the implied tone totally different from the actual movie, we went in expecting grimdark and got the opposite. ASM2 does misleading trailers for no real reason, because they still blew the whole plot...

But also including a buncha lines that aren't in the movie, it's no real big deal on it's own but it still feels like a bait and switch. The biggest missing scene I noticed was the bit where Harry sits Peter down and tells him he was under survellaince. That seemed like a big deal.

Also it was neat how Rhino was implied to be the first thing in the movie, and we all assumed he was some one shot quickie in the intro, and then he was surprise the ending! But gaah, I hate that, seeing the ending in a trailer. Rec pulled it infamously, and it was disappointing there too. :I

About the trailer:

There were so many versions of the peter/Herry scene in different trailers, and the movie played it off like peter would be doing borne identity investigating his parents at oscorp for one of the trailers, that I just plain stopped believing anything I saw.

The spoiler about rhino is interesting though. I think I can picture how that goes down

Phillishere

DiannaoChong wrote: »

Dark Raven X wrote: »

I dunno how I feel about the trend of misleading trailers. Iron Man 3 did it real well, having alternate takes on lines, just little tweaks on delivery to make the implied tone totally different from the actual movie, we went in expecting grimdark and got the opposite. ASM2 does misleading trailers for no real reason, because they still blew the whole plot...

But also including a buncha lines that aren't in the movie, it's no real big deal on it's own but it still feels like a bait and switch. The biggest missing scene I noticed was the bit where Harry sits Peter down and tells him he was under survellaince. That seemed like a big deal.

Also it was neat how Rhino was implied to be the first thing in the movie, and we all assumed he was some one shot quickie in the intro, and then he was surprise the ending! But gaah, I hate that, seeing the ending in a trailer. Rec pulled it infamously, and it was disappointing there too. :I

About the trailer:

There were so many versions of the peter/Herry scene in different trailers, and the movie played it off like peter would be doing borne identity investigating his parents at oscorp for one of the trailers, that I just plain stopped believing anything I saw.

The spoiler about rhino is interesting though. I think I can picture how that goes down

I wonder if the trailers are intentionally misleading or a reflection that the film was being constantly recut right up to release?

Ziggymon

Phillishere wrote: »

DiannaoChong wrote: »

Dark Raven X wrote: »

I dunno how I feel about the trend of misleading trailers. Iron Man 3 did it real well, having alternate takes on lines, just little tweaks on delivery to make the implied tone totally different from the actual movie, we went in expecting grimdark and got the opposite. ASM2 does misleading trailers for no real reason, because they still blew the whole plot...

But also including a buncha lines that aren't in the movie, it's no real big deal on it's own but it still feels like a bait and switch. The biggest missing scene I noticed was the bit where Harry sits Peter down and tells him he was under survellaince. That seemed like a big deal.

Also it was neat how Rhino was implied to be the first thing in the movie, and we all assumed he was some one shot quickie in the intro, and then he was surprise the ending! But gaah, I hate that, seeing the ending in a trailer. Rec pulled it infamously, and it was disappointing there too. :I

About the trailer:

There were so many versions of the peter/Herry scene in different trailers, and the movie played it off like peter would be doing borne identity investigating his parents at oscorp for one of the trailers, that I just plain stopped believing anything I saw.

The spoiler about rhino is interesting though. I think I can picture how that goes down

I wonder if the trailers are intentionally misleading or a reflection that the film was being constantly recut right up to release?

It's how I see it, as the pacing throughout the whole film is all over the place which makes me believe that its been heavily recut like the last one for plot lines in the next sequel

Dark Raven X

The fact they cast, filmed, then cut out a character as important as Mary Jane makes it pretty easy to believe they went into shooting without too much of a firm script.

Brainiac 8

In a way I'm glad they cut MJ.

First: It's too early since I'd rather them focus on Gwen and Peter.

Second: I did not like Woodley as MJ and really hope it means they will be recasting the character.

Dark Raven X

How come? Not seen her in anything except the trailers for The Fault In Our Stars, but she seems fine?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ItBvH5J6ss

Kyougu

Dark Raven X wrote: »

The fact they cast, filmed, then cut out a character as important as Mary Jane makes it pretty easy to believe they went into shooting without too much of a firm script.

It seemed like her scenes were nothing but extended cameos and just setting her up for the sequel. So something that was easily cut without changing of the script.

Quical

Woodley is a fantastic actress. Watch The Descendents, don't judge her based on whatever hunger games twilight three books in four films jazz she's doing right now.

Archangle

Quical wrote: »

Woodley is a fantastic actress. Watch The Descendents, don't judge her based on whatever hunger games twilight three books in four films jazz she's doing right now.

Am I allowed to judge her based on her belief that eating clay will absorb the toxins in your bloodstream?

Dark Raven X

Gwyneth Paltrow is an anti-medicine nutbar, doesn't stop her being a great Pepper in Iron Man. :P

Phillishere

Archangle wrote: »

Quical wrote: »

Woodley is a fantastic actress. Watch The Descendents, don't judge her based on whatever hunger games twilight three books in four films jazz she's doing right now.

Am I allowed to judge her based on her belief that eating clay will absorb the toxins in your bloodstream?

That not 100 percent crazy.

ElJeffe

Yeah, okay, this is not a thread on the weird beliefs of various actors and actresses.

TexiKen

Woodley never looked like MJ.

Dunst didn't either, but they changed enough about her to kind of, at least at the beginning of the Rami series, be a MJ/Gwen quasi amalgam and a little bit of the Ultimate Universe MJ.

You need a modern day Kelly Kapowski for MJ.

King Riptor

Quical wrote: »

Woodley is a fantastic actress. Watch The Descendents, don't judge her based on whatever hunger games twilight three books in four films jazz she's doing right now.

She doesnt really look like MJ.
I mean after Dunst anything is a step up but this girl looks like shes 12 in that trailer up there not a crazy confident aspiring model that dates a billionaires son.

Dungeon Questing

I'm fine with just about anything...but emo Spiderman. On another note, is it so hard to find a natural redhead for MJ?

Kyougu

TexiKen wrote: »

Woodley never looked like MJ.

Dunst didn't either, but they changed enough about her to kind of, at least at the beginning of the Rami series, be a MJ/Gwen quasi amalgam and a little bit of the Ultimate Universe MJ.

You need a modern day Niki Cox for MJ.

Brainiac 8

King Riptor wrote: »

Quical wrote: »

Woodley is a fantastic actress. Watch The Descendents, don't judge her based on whatever hunger games twilight three books in four films jazz she's doing right now.

She doesnt really look like MJ.
I mean after Dunst anything is a step up but this girl looks like shes 12 in that trailer up there not a crazy confident aspiring model that dates a billionaires son.

This is my problem with her. I'm sure she's a fantastic actress, but to me, she just doesn't look like MJ. At all.

Neither did Dunst though. I love the Raimi movies, and she was the weakest aspect of the trilogy to me.