Heck during those days of Magic you were lucky if knew what other cards EXISTED.
Discussing deck tuning/creation is my favorite thing about these card games. Just wait until Hearthstone has a few expansions under its belt and the card selection lets you go off and do insane things (even if it's not nessecarily a good deck, just awesome when it works) In one of the MTG threads we were just discussing how to use a pretty mediocre common card (Hidden Strings) combined with other cheap commons to create INFINITE BIRD TOKENS. Sure you can win more efficiently and reliably, but I doubt as awesomely.
There are awesome times ahead for Hearthstone is what I'm trying to say
like, I remember he had a blue/white stasis deck that was just all sorts of bullshit
I dunno, I'll be curious to see how they expand hearthstone. Have they announced how many new cards are coming out with naxx yet? Is it just a couple for each class, or like a whole new set?
Don't have a citation, but I think it's in the realm of a "couple for each class" with a handful of neutrals rather than a whole set.
If the post is accurate, they claim 1 legendary for each of the 5 wings cleared plus an additional legendary when all the wings are cleared. I'm very curious as to if/when they reveal those cards.
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If the post is accurate, they claim 1 legendary for each of the 5 wings cleared plus an additional legendary when all the wings are cleared. I'm very curious as to if/when they reveal those cards.
Probably one a week after the classes are done, with how incredibly slowly they've posted information, I really don't see it being released before August.
Heck during those days of Magic you were lucky if knew what other cards EXISTED.
Discussing deck tuning/creation is my favorite thing about these card games. Just wait until Hearthstone has a few expansions under its belt and the card selection lets you go off and do insane things (even if it's not nessecarily a good deck, just awesome when it works) In one of the MTG threads we were just discussing how to use a pretty mediocre common card (Hidden Strings) combined with other cheap commons to create INFINITE BIRD TOKENS. Sure you can win more efficiently and reliably, but I doubt as awesomely.
There are awesome times ahead for Hearthstone is what I'm trying to say
Memory Jar + Megrim? Particularly if you grabbed, say, a Dark Ritual and Megrim in your jar hand. To put it in Hearthstone terms, you could do 21+ damage in one turn (often 42), midgame.
That said, Memory Jar got justifiably banned so fast. As fun as it is to use, it really was broken game design. The art was fantastic though.
You have got to be Fucking kidding me. Me and a pally are topdecking late. 9 cards left in each of our decks. I get a TSC out. He top decks a swamp ooze.
It started with the idea of alchemist +stormwind knight combo and then expanded and evolved from there. I'm not too sold on the fairie dragon, but I wanted another 2 drop that has staying power. Really, this deck has ambush power. People will tend to avoid lategame acolytes or alchemist and hit face, which then leaves them open for savage roar + mark+ claw combos. I'm sure the force of nature and all the epic druid dood deck is consistently better, but I have 0 forces and only 1 lore (pictured here).
You have got to be Fucking kidding me. Me and a pally are topdecking late. 9 cards left in each of our decks. I get a TSC out. He top decks a swamp ooze.
Hey man, that's a 1-in-9 shot, these days you have to do better. Recently some guy invented a story about bomber hitting him in the face 3 times with 6 minions on board. That's a yarn tailor-made to grab attention! Step your game up.
I've just had an idea on how to solve the miracle rogue problem.
What if Shadowstep was changed to: 1 mana
Return a friendly minion to your hand and draw a card ?
You could still play Leeroy twice in one turn for a bit of burst potential but it would no longer be possible to just stall and then use Leeroy as an OTK. To compensate, rogues would be given some extra card draw to make non-miracle decks a bit stronger and make their battlecry minions like Si:7 and Defias more effective.
This way, Shadowstep could be used as a tool to gain value and save damaged minions rather than exclusively as a 2 mana Leeroy Jenkins or a way to prevent opponents from killing Gadgetzan.
I've just had an idea on how to solve the miracle rogue problem.
What if Shadowstep was changed to: 1 mana
Return a friendly minion to your hand and draw a card ?
You could still play Leeroy twice in one turn for a bit of burst potential but it would no longer be possible to just stall and then use Leeroy as an OTK. To compensate, rogues would be given some extra card draw to make non-miracle decks a bit stronger and make their battlecry minions like Si:7 and Defias more effective.
This way, Shadowstep could be used as a tool to gain value and save damaged minions rather than exclusively as a 2 mana Leeroy Jenkins or a way to prevent opponents from killing Gadgetzan.
I haven't played with Rogue enough to know for sure, but this seems like a really good idea to me.
I've just had an idea on how to solve the miracle rogue problem.
What if Shadowstep was changed to: 1 mana
Return a friendly minion to your hand and draw a card ?
You could still play Leeroy twice in one turn for a bit of burst potential but it would no longer be possible to just stall and then use Leeroy as an OTK. To compensate, rogues would be given some extra card draw to make non-miracle decks a bit stronger and make their battlecry minions like Si:7 and Defias more effective.
This way, Shadowstep could be used as a tool to gain value and save damaged minions rather than exclusively as a 2 mana Leeroy Jenkins or a way to prevent opponents from killing Gadgetzan.
Depending on your definition of OTK, this doesn't stop said phenomena. That's still a maximum of 20 damage from the combo: leeroy + shadowstep + preparation + cold blood x2 at 10 mana. Comparing the maximum possible burst at each mana cost:
Granted, the top end is scaled down, but more interesting is that the mid-range of possibilities is flattened so miracle isn't as flexible in when it can drop you. That makes the overall combo less consistent, but doesn't stop "OTKs".
Kambing on
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That last one doesn't worth though. 4 mana for leeroy, then 1 for shadoystep, then another 4 for leeroy, and one cold blood, so the top end can only do 16.
That last one doesn't worth though. 4 mana for leeroy, then 1 for shadoystep, then another 4 for leeroy, and one cold blood, so the top end can only do 16.
Sorry. Forgot about the preparation in there to enable the last cold blood.
(Note, the force of the change is that shadowstep goes from an effective 6 dmg/2 mana spell to a 6 dmg/5 mana spell. This makes shadowstep less important to put into the deck because cold blood beats it on efficiency with a 4 dmg/1 mana ratio. Technically as a matter of efficiency, you would end up shadowstepping SI:7 agents for damage or farseers for health, if you included shadowstep in the deck at all.)
Kambing on
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You know I don't think I've ever won the Zoo mirror going second.
Zoo mirror seems to come down to who can get out a knife juggler that sticks and soulfire earliest.
If you go second you are going to need a big tempo swing play. Def look for a soulfire.
Coin priestess / voidwalker is a pretty good start, IMO.
I'd avoid doing something like dropping a flame walker to oppose an argent squire because he can run into you and mortal coil you, and then drop some other 1 drop.
Probably my favorite opening was against an argent squire, and I did coin priestess +priestess
Granted, the top end is scaled down, but more interesting is that the mid-range of possibilities is flattened so miracle isn't as flexible in when it can drop you. That makes the overall combo less consistent, but doesn't stop "OTKs".
People play RNG combo decks like miracle rogue and (pre-nerf) Hunter because the RNG means they're guaranteed to win most games.
Look at what happened to hunter after UTH got its mana cost increased by 1. Nobody played Hunter anymore. This is what will happen with the proposed change to Shadowstep.
Yes, miracle rogue will still exist and will still be a decent deck. But the people who play miracle rogue don't want a strong deck. They want a broken deck. They want double digit win streaks.
Nerfing miracle rogue as I suggested will leave it as a viable deck but it will completely nullify its effect on the metagame because strong decks aren't what miracle rogue players want. They want the hearthstone version of an aimbot. If the possibility exists to counter miracle rogue, most miracle rogue players will stop running the deck.
you seem to have confused miracle rogue with [deck i hate]
There are only two decks in hearthstone that have ever worked on the basis of cards that are weak individually but strong as combos, combined with massive card draw. Miracle rogue and pre-nerf hunter. Well, post-nerf hunter is actually the same but for some reason people don't play it anymore.
Maybe since the nerf the skill of hunter players has declined and now they aren't as skilled as miracle rogue players.
no see what i'm getting at is when you talk about the psychology of the players behind the decks instead of just whether the decks are too strong or too weak, you come across as a mad lunatic
Started playing with a Warrior with ridiculous amounts of card draw (and by ridiculous I mean tonnes). First time I've got fatigue ever (and my opponent still had 14 cards left), thankfully I had 30 health + 12 Armour to my opponent's 14 health at that point.
In the end he couldn't top-deck a solution to Onyxia .
I don't know how many games I've won because of Onyxia.
Baron Geddon on the other hand has yet to pull his weight in a game.
Now to make some tweaks to that deck, I reckon I can get rid of at least 4 of the draw mechanic cards I have in there.
no see what i'm getting at is when you talk about the psychology of the players behind the decks instead of just whether the decks are too strong or too weak, you come across as a mad lunatic
You try keeping a level head while dealing with miracle rogue as a priest in constructed for a week.
Had two decent games with it around rank 20. I'm not sure I feel the Argent Commanders belong though and I know not everybody is a fan on Arcane Explosion.
I agree about the argent commanders. Argent commanders are effectively a 4 point nuke that leaves a 4/2 body behind, and you have plenty of spell-based damage in the deck. One thing to try might be to run violet teachers instead to take advantage of the spells in the deck. Other lower-end subs to consider include sorcerer's apprentice and knife juggler (if you run the violets). The owls and harrison jones seem to be very specific counter cards that you might want to consider swapping for more generalist cards.
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I agree about the argent commanders. Argent commanders are effectively a 4 point nuke that leaves a 4/2 body behind, and you have plenty of spell-based damage in the deck. One thing to try might be to run violet teachers instead to take advantage of the spells in the deck. Other lower-end subs to consider include sorcerer's apprentice and knife juggler (if you run the violets). The owls and harrison jones seem to be very specific counter cards that you might want to consider swapping for more generalist cards.
I think I can definitely get rid of Harrison, but I think I'm going to keep the owls just to deal with occasional spoiler decks that I'm still running into.
I don't have the teachers but I'm going to try apprentices instead of the commanders and see how that works out.
Who *doesn't* hate Zoo? The fact it's more or less possible to face in arena as well is extremely annoying, there is literally no way to escape it.
I prefer playing zoo to playing control. Both playing it, myself, and playing against it.
Though, I'm not sure what the alternative to "zoo" would be as a general deck archtype that folks would enjoy. Generally, CCGs are broken into aggro, combo, and control. Zoo translates to aggro. Control is control. Miracle rogue is combo.
If you hate aggro, then what do you like playing against?
I got to rank 5 last season with a totally original watcher priest deck but can't break 12 this season with kitkatz control warrior (swapping 1 drake for 1 arc reaper)
I would get to the top end of 12 and the get on like a umpteen game losing streak dropping me to 16 or less
I've taken a break from constructed this season. I felt I was getting burnt out on it. I think I don't quite have the talent to get to legendary, but only way to get better is to practice, but that was killing the game for me. I'm going to dive back in next season and make another go for it.
I got to rank 5 last season with a totally original watcher priest deck but can't break 12 this season with kitkatz control warrior (swapping 1 drake for 1 arc reaper)
I would get to the top end of 12 and the get on like a umpteen game losing streak dropping me to 16 or less
at least arena is still fun
I assume this is mostly just because a lot of good players are still working their way up the ladder; I topped out at rank 14 last season with an extremely basic priest deck by mostly playing toward the end of the month; I'm struggling to get above rank 18 at the moment and still seeing a lot of 'meta' decks
it was the smallest on the list but
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
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they really need all the help they can get
If the post is accurate, they claim 1 legendary for each of the 5 wings cleared plus an additional legendary when all the wings are cleared. I'm very curious as to if/when they reveal those cards.
Memory Jar + Megrim? Particularly if you grabbed, say, a Dark Ritual and Megrim in your jar hand. To put it in Hearthstone terms, you could do 21+ damage in one turn (often 42), midgame.
That said, Memory Jar got justifiably banned so fast. As fun as it is to use, it really was broken game design. The art was fantastic though.
It started with the idea of alchemist +stormwind knight combo and then expanded and evolved from there. I'm not too sold on the fairie dragon, but I wanted another 2 drop that has staying power. Really, this deck has ambush power. People will tend to avoid lategame acolytes or alchemist and hit face, which then leaves them open for savage roar + mark+ claw combos. I'm sure the force of nature and all the epic druid dood deck is consistently better, but I have 0 forces and only 1 lore (pictured here).
Hey man, that's a 1-in-9 shot, these days you have to do better. Recently some guy invented a story about bomber hitting him in the face 3 times with 6 minions on board. That's a yarn tailor-made to grab attention! Step your game up.
What if Shadowstep was changed to:
1 mana
Return a friendly minion to your hand and draw a card ?
You could still play Leeroy twice in one turn for a bit of burst potential but it would no longer be possible to just stall and then use Leeroy as an OTK. To compensate, rogues would be given some extra card draw to make non-miracle decks a bit stronger and make their battlecry minions like Si:7 and Defias more effective.
This way, Shadowstep could be used as a tool to gain value and save damaged minions rather than exclusively as a 2 mana Leeroy Jenkins or a way to prevent opponents from killing Gadgetzan.
knife juggler will never hit your face or your own minions tho
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I haven't played with Rogue enough to know for sure, but this seems like a really good idea to me.
Depending on your definition of OTK, this doesn't stop said phenomena. That's still a maximum of 20 damage from the combo: leeroy + shadowstep + preparation + cold blood x2 at 10 mana. Comparing the maximum possible burst at each mana cost:
Granted, the top end is scaled down, but more interesting is that the mid-range of possibilities is flattened so miracle isn't as flexible in when it can drop you. That makes the overall combo less consistent, but doesn't stop "OTKs".
Sorry. Forgot about the preparation in there to enable the last cold blood.
(Note, the force of the change is that shadowstep goes from an effective 6 dmg/2 mana spell to a 6 dmg/5 mana spell. This makes shadowstep less important to put into the deck because cold blood beats it on efficiency with a 4 dmg/1 mana ratio. Technically as a matter of efficiency, you would end up shadowstepping SI:7 agents for damage or farseers for health, if you included shadowstep in the deck at all.)
You always always want to coin out two of your solid one drops on your first turn, and mulligan accordingly.
Soulfire on your opponent's two drop compounds the advantage and makes it very hard for the first player to regain the board.
Zoo mirror (with ideal hands) heavily favours the 2nd player.
Zoo mirror seems to come down to who can get out a knife juggler that sticks and soulfire earliest.
If you go second you are going to need a big tempo swing play. Def look for a soulfire.
Coin priestess / voidwalker is a pretty good start, IMO.
I'd avoid doing something like dropping a flame walker to oppose an argent squire because he can run into you and mortal coil you, and then drop some other 1 drop.
Probably my favorite opening was against an argent squire, and I did coin priestess +priestess
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Look at what happened to hunter after UTH got its mana cost increased by 1. Nobody played Hunter anymore. This is what will happen with the proposed change to Shadowstep.
Yes, miracle rogue will still exist and will still be a decent deck. But the people who play miracle rogue don't want a strong deck. They want a broken deck. They want double digit win streaks.
Nerfing miracle rogue as I suggested will leave it as a viable deck but it will completely nullify its effect on the metagame because strong decks aren't what miracle rogue players want. They want the hearthstone version of an aimbot. If the possibility exists to counter miracle rogue, most miracle rogue players will stop running the deck.
Maybe since the nerf the skill of hunter players has declined and now they aren't as skilled as miracle rogue players.
In the end he couldn't top-deck a solution to Onyxia
I don't know how many games I've won because of Onyxia.
Baron Geddon on the other hand has yet to pull his weight in a game.
Now to make some tweaks to that deck, I reckon I can get rid of at least 4 of the draw mechanic cards I have in there.
...it was Harrison Jones
I bet you're looking forward to running into Jaraxxus..
2xArcane Missile
2xMana Wyrm
2xArcane Explosion
2xFrostbolt
2xIronbeak Owl
2xKobold Geomancer
2xArcane Intellect
2xFireball
2xPolymorph
2xWater Elemental
2xAbomination
2xAzure Drake
1xHarrison Jones
2xArgent Commander
2xFlamestrike
1xPyroblast
Had two decent games with it around rank 20. I'm not sure I feel the Argent Commanders belong though and I know not everybody is a fan on Arcane Explosion.
You hate Zoo, don't you.
I agree about the argent commanders. Argent commanders are effectively a 4 point nuke that leaves a 4/2 body behind, and you have plenty of spell-based damage in the deck. One thing to try might be to run violet teachers instead to take advantage of the spells in the deck. Other lower-end subs to consider include sorcerer's apprentice and knife juggler (if you run the violets). The owls and harrison jones seem to be very specific counter cards that you might want to consider swapping for more generalist cards.
I think I can definitely get rid of Harrison, but I think I'm going to keep the owls just to deal with occasional spoiler decks that I'm still running into.
I don't have the teachers but I'm going to try apprentices instead of the commanders and see how that works out.
I prefer playing zoo to playing control. Both playing it, myself, and playing against it.
Though, I'm not sure what the alternative to "zoo" would be as a general deck archtype that folks would enjoy. Generally, CCGs are broken into aggro, combo, and control. Zoo translates to aggro. Control is control. Miracle rogue is combo.
If you hate aggro, then what do you like playing against?
Might be a light night. Trump was pairing off the same few top 50 legendary folk back-to-back from low rank 1-high rank 2.
I don't play ranked much, though I'm nowhere near your level. I've found the frustration tends to outweigh the fun.
I would get to the top end of 12 and the get on like a umpteen game losing streak dropping me to 16 or less
at least arena is still fun
Origin: KafkaAU B-Net: Kafka#1778
I assume this is mostly just because a lot of good players are still working their way up the ladder; I topped out at rank 14 last season with an extremely basic priest deck by mostly playing toward the end of the month; I'm struggling to get above rank 18 at the moment and still seeing a lot of 'meta' decks
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
Origin: KafkaAU B-Net: Kafka#1778