wanting to start a game store. would you go?

ArcadiaExeter

ive had an idea for a while now for a game store that encompasses all gamers. my dream is for it to have a table top area with library of games (like pax do), a console area where people can play console games, and an area with arcade machines. we would also buy and sell used games and sell the bigger releases of new games. really all i want is a place where all gamers can come and play, but since everything cost money it also needs to make money. the main way i see this place making money is from "time cards". you put money on a card and you get so many hours of play time thats good for all the areas. kind of David and Busters style.

so thoughts? i'm really interested in knowing if you would go to such a place. thanks.

Deadfall

I can go into it when I'm not on my phone but my wife used to work at D and Bs and unless something has changed they made most of their money on food/liquor sales, not time cards.

The cards were just there to keep people buying food and drinks.

ANTVGM64

I've been pondering this kind of thing. I can really only speak for myself here, but here's how you'd get money out of my pockets.

Treat it like a golf membership. I'd be far more willing to pay a monthly subscription - 30 dollars a month, 40 dollars a month, whatever, to have access to a library of games I can play anytime I want, and even hypothetically bring home. If you had a bunch of rooms set up with headphones, consoles, comfy chairs, vending machines, etc - I could see myself spending a lot of time hanging out and socializing with fellow gamers in a way you really can't anywhere else.

Moreover, I've never owned a PS1 or Sega Saturn, and there are TONS of classic games on those consoles I'd want to play. If you charged me 40 bucks a month to let me use your Sega Saturn set up on a TV in the best way, assigned me my own memory card, etc, I'd be happy paying you for that service. With Emulation being as wonky as it is, having a place to go and play and PROGRESS in games where the legwork is cut out for me, would be awesome.

Similarly, if my membership were to ALSO include a 'check out' allotment of games, that'd be gravy too. Think of your business as a for-profit library.

I'd also go ahead and try and double down on a social element - have "How to D&D classes" or "Weird Board Game" nights that function similar to tupperware parties or whatnot - give people an EXCUSE to come check out and hang out at your store, and they'll do so.

There's also the idea that maybe you could possibly somehow get some sort of "not-for-profit" educational / preservation grant thing if you wanted to go that route, and depending on your location you could always "kickstart" the business and offer the top donors free-life-long membership?

All I know is that if I had the equivalent of a 'bar' I could go too, where instead of booze they serve up interactive media in a comfortable, fun, relaxed settings, I'd go and happily pay.

ArcadiaExeter

Thanks for the information Deadfall. The time cards are more the means to an end then they are for profit. a more simplified and manageable way for people to pay.

and I like your ideas ANT. I have thought about having a membership where you pay so much a month and come in whenever and do whatever.I was also figuring on a lot of income coming from tournaments and events like you said. and its funny that you say Bar because i was just thinking today how i would like to have the entire table top area have the feel of a bar, with the counter looking like one with stools and everything, but instead of serving drinks you'd take out games and maybe get a soda.

also the retro consoles is a good idea. i think that would work a lot like the table top library where you would "take out" a console and game.

these are great ideas. thanks alot guys.

ANTVGM64

Yeah for sure I'd make it a booze-free kinda thing (if you want I mean), but the one thing I WOULD encourage? E-Cigs. I know it sounds stupid but I think that could be a fun little supplemental aspect + they're 'hot' right now and such.

Do you have business expierence, etc?

The Ender

ArcadiaExeter wrote: »

Thanks for the information Deadfall. The time cards are more the means to an end then they are for profit. a more simplified and manageable way for people to pay.

and I like your ideas ANT. I have thought about having a membership where you pay so much a month and come in whenever and do whatever.I was also figuring on a lot of income coming from tournaments and events like you said. and its funny that you say Bar because i was just thinking today how i would like to have the entire table top area have the feel of a bar, with the counter looking like one with stools and everything, but instead of serving drinks you'd take out games and maybe get a soda.

also the retro consoles is a good idea. i think that would work a lot like the table top library where you would "take out" a console and game.

these are great ideas. thanks alot guys.

There was another user that discussed setting-up a business sort-of like the one you're describing; @Deebaser‌ gave an excellent breakdown of the difficulties a subscription based gaming business would have.

Simply put, you would need an unrealistically large subscriber base to support the operation. Session cards might get a better margin, but I can't imagine it would be by much.


You need to sell stuff - stuff that a group of steady customers will come in and buy on a regular basis - so that you can survive with a relatively small pool of clients. Games, comics, etc, but also consumable stuff that people will probably want to eat / drink while playing games at the store (pop, candy, whatever). A huge part of gaming retail profit is locked-up in selling pop.

Deadfall

Okay, so

A few things to consider: There is a reason you don't see straight up arcades anymore. We have a barcade here called 1up that is crazy busy at nights. Like if you get there after 9, good luck getting in for awhile. Just packed with tons of arcade games, but they are also a full bar/kitchen.

If you don't serve alcohol or, at the absolute least food, you're going to miss out on my demographic (guys who grew up on those retro consoles who are now in their careers and can drop some money). No alcohol means no guys like me, which means what, middle and high schoolers? I teach middle school, and they will trash your place. Plus you have a very limited window that they can play.

Kids also especially means no guys like me, because no way am I spending an evening with a bunch of annoying middle schoolers running around.

So maybe you think you'll have an age limit? Again, with no alcohol or food, you are severely limiting your client base.

So maybe you'll serve food? Do you have any experience running a kitchen, because I can tell you from experience it is more work than you think it is.

You said you'll have games and tournaments? Now you're brushing into gaming shop territory, which from what I hear is extremely hard to make profitable.

Like I guess my thought is, yeah playing Saturn and Super NES games are awesome, but I literally have a retro game store up the road from me, and another a few miles in the other direction where I can buy a Saturn for like 40 bucks and play it in the comfort of my own home.

So my question for you, as your potential demographic, is what can you offer me at a monthly fee that I can't get at my house already?

Kharnastus

Alcohol is where the money is at. Go check out the Lean Startup if you are serious about creating a business. Including all of those things is going to have all sorts of opportunities for failure. If I were to try it I would figure out what makes a bar a profitable business and then build in my gamer audience from there.

ceres

Third or whatever that as an adult with a family who grew up on NES I'd like to go play NES, but if there isn't pretty decent food and possibly alcohol I am very much less likely to bother. I don't have a lot of time to get out, and when I do I want there to be food available to me.

Kharnastus

I don't know if public consumption of entertainment is viable anywhere. Even as a musician, I think we can agree that the venue wants to sell you alcohol and doesn't really care about the music, movie, etc that brings the people in. Ah the sad state of the entertainment industry.

Inquisitor77

In all honesty it sounds like you just want a place to play video games and hang out, not run a business. Let's say that you had a viable business model - you'd still be spending all of your time actually managing the place, and none of the time just screwing around playing video games with your friends. You'd have a kitchen to run, tables to clean, broken consoles to fix, furniture that needs replacing, etc. etc. etc.

If you get the idea out of your head that you're running a fun hang-out video game place and you're actually looking to make a real business, then you have to ask yourself some real questions. Primarily: What are you going to provide that other places don't? In particular, it sounds like you're trying to be Dave & Busters for gamers. Well, Dave & Busters would've destroyed that market if it actually had a legitimate customer base, but it really doesn't. Gamers by and large buy their own video games, and they play them at home or at their friends' homes, and they don't need you telling them that you only have 1 hour or that you can't put your drink on the chair or hey man, you have to wear shoes OK?

Everyone makes fun of D&B but the reality is that D&B provides services to the only customers who are willing to pay money - corporations, adults/families looking to have fun playing games they literally can't play anywhere else. If all they had were old arcade games and tables for card games, literally the same 5 guys would show up every day and they'd be grabbing the free refill $5 Coke and drinking that sucker all day, and you would make no money.

The Ender

Like, I imagine something akin to Deadfall's local 'barcade' could work just fine - but (if I'm imagining it properly) it's likely that the 'bar' part comes first, and there are also some games there to make it unique from other bars in town.


Running a bar is tough. You have a lot of licensing to deal with, a lot of regulations to abide by, you will very likely have to deal with police that actively attempt to snipe you for violations with minors on the premises (a friend of mine who had a bar/restaurant in Athens Georgia ended-up closing the bar part due to that), you can have some very rough around the edges clients and you have to manage a whole kitchen on top of all that.

That's not to say you can't do it, but one of many things that you should very carefully consider before developing that sort of business plan would be, "Do I really want this?"

ArcadiaExeter

well there would be no alcohol for multiple reasons. one of them being that i live in NJ and i have heard from restaurant owners that getting a liquor licence here is a pain. also, one thing i hate about D&B is you cant play most of the games because some drunk moron has spilt beer all over most of them. i've thought about food but i'd really rather not.

inquisitor, you make a good point. if my target is the type of gamer who cares about it enough to want a place like this, they are going to have all this stuff at home.

I have a lot more thinking to do on this, but thank you all for your input.

ANTVGM64

Lemme know if you wanna spit-ball ideas. for whatever reason pondering this is fun!

Deebaser

I know Im late, but I just wanted to expand on this bit

I teach middle school, and they will trash your place.

Tweens may be the worst in this respect, but everyone is going to wreck your stuff. I took a zipcar out yesterday and did my pre-drive damage report like I always do. This was just from the bumper.

The car had less than 5,000 miles on it. This is p much par for the course with zipcar. Customers will wreck yo shit. They don't give a fuck.

noir_blood

ArcadiaExeter wrote: »

well there would be no alcohol for multiple reasons. one of them being that i live in NJ and i have heard from restaurant owners that getting a liquor licence here is a pain. also, one thing i hate about D&B is you cant play most of the games because some drunk moron has spilt beer all over most of them. i've thought about food but i'd really rather not.

So basically you don't want to run a business.

WiseManTobes

Ya, as sad as it makes me, because I'm one of those people that wish there was more options for late night entertainment that was free from the drunken idiots that every place with alcohol seems to be filled with, the booze is the money. ( Even our theatres here are serving booze now, and that's gone about as awful as you'd expect that to. Nothing quite kills a tense final act in a movie like hearing someone vomit)

Draygo

I wouldn't say its impossible - you can create/found something new that people would actually want to go out for. Food/booze is just the easiest path among the hard paths of starting a business. You could do it dry but it will be a lot harder to do it I would imagine. Careful market research and researching establishments that are like the one you want to make would be key.
-
Not a bad place to check out: http://www.score.org/
Advice and level of feedback can vary greatly but picking up a mentor if your serious about starting a business can be life saving.

Maguano

you said you're in NJ? Head to yestecades in red bank to get an idea (at least on the arcade game part.) A liquor license in NJ is difficult to get (as you said) and crazy expensive. But they do allow BYOB.

Enc

One of the things you may want to do for research is to find these details for your area:

1. Average rent in desirable locations for the sqft you would need (you don't want to be in a run down strip mall for this, you want to be noticable and in a location your customers will feel safe leaving at 11pm).
2. A rough estimate of the amount of power your systems, refrigerators, and arcade will draw in a week/month along with the Kw/Hr charge in your area. I remember our power company changing hands several years back causing all but one of our arcades closing due to what seemed like a minor Kw/Hr increase but, for those businesses, completely consumed the amount of profit they were making from concessions.
3. A rough idea of your capital expenditures (how many systems, games, furniture, cost of paint, cost of moving, cost of lighting fixtures and cabinets, cost of retail inventory, etc). If you are using the cheapest chairs and plastic tables, you might be able to run a gaming shop with Friday Night Magic but you won't make me feel comfortable to sit and chill with a console for 4 hours with friends. That would take decent couches and chairs (both of which cost a considerable amount of money, moreso with stain-resistant fabrics which would be required given the amount of spoilage you would have). You would also want to factor in the cost of covering about one major piece of furniture and two or three lighting fixtures a month into your expected expenses as if you have a considerable amount of patrons you will have regular losses of assets.
4. On the topic of retail inventory, rough estimate of the range of markup for similar products in your area and what you would need to offer in order to be competitive. You'll never beat Walmart on prices, but if you are 2-4 bucks more expensive on your food, sales, and drinks than other areas due to having poor distribution and wholesale prices then why would I go to your business over others? If you stay competitive, can you get a profit with your size and margin?
5. Cost of liqueur, food service, and retail license for your region. As you stated earlier, Liqueur licenses in New England are typically A. expensive and B. limited access (many municipalities only allow a specific number of such vendors in the city, and getting one may require purchasing it from another company).
6. A rough idea of your operations expenses and expectations. Will you alone be able to do everything? Probably not. What if you get sick? Or have a family emergency? Do you shut down the store? That's a bad call because even if it is only once or twice a year (though once or twice a month is more likely) you'll get a reputation for never being open or being inconstant. Hiring a second person to cover is also tricky because people like a living wage, benefits, and reasonable stability. Hiring someone to "just cover" while you are out isn't going to work as there is no incentive that they will either want to do so consistently or know enough about all aspects of the business to keep it working. Hiring friends that may be more sympathetic might solve this short term, but there is no faster way to lose friends that working with them. Part time workers (less than 20 hours) will likely limit your pool to teenagers which, typically, will not have much incentive to be loyal to your brand and will have high turnover (if not in-house theft) and full time workers are unlikely to stay unless you are competitive on salary which (for small businesses) typically means not paying yourself much or relying upon a very high degree of success right out of the shoot. This is the most complicated and important part of your pre-panning, as operations is 100% the most difficult and most essential part of any business. It's also the most expensive.
7. Cost of outsourcing a payroll company, point of sale system, credit card fees, and professional legal council and accountant on retainer (or on a stable consulting basis for the legal council). All small businesses typically need a professional accountant to check your books about once a month to ensure everything is squared away. This isn't cheap, but not doing so can lead to huge taxation problems down the line if you don't have small business finance experience.
8. Cost of local BBB membership and local municipal, state, and federal taxes upon a business of your rough size. Depending upon your municipality, arcades may have a local "morality" tax associated with them as much of the country viewed Arcades as "undesirable" between the 1970s and 1990s and passed many zoning laws and restrictions to drive them elsewhere.
9. Look up other similar companies in the area that cater to one or more of your target audiences. Will you be able to draw from their market base? Will you be able to protect your own? If your region already has several arcades, gaming bars, gaming restaurants, or gaming stores what makes yours better? I live in a large city, we have about 10-12 gaming stores across the entire city and maybe another 5-7 arcades and gaming bars. Very few have been around for more than 5 years, and the 3 or 4 that have are national chains (and this is in Orlando, where tourism drives most of those businesses and most are on or around International Drive and the theme parks).
10. On the subject of chains, have you looked up franchising with a chain that does similar works? This would take care of many of the problems here at the cost of some of your freedom of action with the company. On the other hand, it would give you a better base to work with and possibly better insight into running such a business into the future.

Just some thoughts.

Edit: added a few other points you may want to consider.

davidsdurions

Alternatively, you can set yourself up with a decent paying job with decent hours. Purchase a house with an unfinished basement. Finish that basement into your dream as described here. Invite friends and their friends over. Enjoy life.

Radiation

Me and an old buddy of mine thought about doing a sort of multifloored coffee house. Where the coffee shop thingie is the main source and the games shit was supporting that. Mostly because we had seen a local game store kind of flounder. The game store started out with a public gaming area, but had to downsize to a regular store to just sell games.

Dhalphir

ArcadiaExeter wrote: »

well there would be no alcohol for multiple reasons. one of them being that i live in NJ and i have heard from restaurant owners that getting a liquor licence here is a pain. also, one thing i hate about D&B is you cant play most of the games because some drunk moron has spilt beer all over most of them. i've thought about food but i'd really rather not.

inquisitor, you make a good point. if my target is the type of gamer who cares about it enough to want a place like this, they are going to have all this stuff at home.

I have a lot more thinking to do on this, but thank you all for your input.

You will not get access to the 25-45 demographic of gamers without serving alcohol. Period. And those are the gamers with money.

zepherin

Dhalphir wrote: »

ArcadiaExeter wrote: »

well there would be no alcohol for multiple reasons. one of them being that i live in NJ and i have heard from restaurant owners that getting a liquor licence here is a pain. also, one thing i hate about D&B is you cant play most of the games because some drunk moron has spilt beer all over most of them. i've thought about food but i'd really rather not.

inquisitor, you make a good point. if my target is the type of gamer who cares about it enough to want a place like this, they are going to have all this stuff at home.

I have a lot more thinking to do on this, but thank you all for your input.

You will not get access to the 25-45 demographic of gamers without serving alcohol. Period. And those are the gamers with money.

And beer is a bigger money grab than any of the arcade games.

Take the previously mentioned 1up bar (which is a fucking amazing place might I add, seriously if you are in Denver go tonight). You've got people feeding quarters in the machine, roughly at a rate of 1 quarter every 4 minutes, or 15 quarters an hour. So roughly $3.75 per hour per person for the machine. For the one up bar the cost for filling a keg equates to roughly $1.5 per pint of beer, and a $5 per beer revenue, so a profit of $3.50 per beer. Even without the Bro factor you are looking at 2 beers per hour, or $7 per hour per person in beer. Almost double your game price. It's worth it at 1 beer per hour. Booze is good for money. A quick look shows liquor licenses going from 100k-200k. This is expensive, but unless your willing to sink 650k plus into your business it will fail. Period. you will be under capitalized and the business will shit the bed. Add 150k for a liquor license and you'll be at 800k, but 800k with a viable business.

Jasconius

i will echo the general sentiment that if you want a successful business that involves arcade/console gaming then what you really want is a BAR that has games

basically you want to build a strip club but with Ms. Pacman instead of strippers

you make all your money on the drinks to pay for the machines and you cater to an adult audience who will be less likely to abuse your expensive electronics

LoveIsUnity

There is a store that fits this general description near me, and the only reason I go there is because it's an indie gaming store in a city with like 30 Gamestops.

Let me lay out for you how visiting this store normally works:

The store itself is a relatively large space for an indie games store in LA and has enough space to have about 15 of those large folding tables out in the middle of the store at any given time. The store itself is a rectangular shape with the long sides of the rectangle being on your right and your left as you enter. The games for sale (they also buy and sell used) are located along the perimeter of the store, but depending on what's going on with the tables and the crowd they've drawn that night it can be super hard to actually get around the tables to browse. It's also kind of tough to ask someone to move over while they're playing Carcasonne or Magic so that I can see if they have a copy of Lost Odyssey, so it ends up being awkward for me and them. The store sells chips and soda, which I heard from one of the people who work there is how they make a lot of their money. Chips, soda, and Magic cards are apparently what keep them in business.

Now, the occasional awkward moment trying to get around someone playing a game isn't too bad, and I like the fact that there's a place people can go to play card games or D&D or whatever. But, since they don't enforce any age limits and they don't serve alcohol, the crowd that they draw is almost entirely in the 12-19 demographic, and I think we can all sympathize with having to be around socially awkward nerds in that age demographic. I've seen an entire table of nerds stare at my wife's chest when we've walked in before. I've heard the word "faggot" used like it was a "stop" in a telegram. Basically, I always try to go right after work these days because I don't want to be around the kids who go there, and my wife has told a 13 year old to fuck off because he wouldn't leave her alone while she was looking at 360 games.

I would love having a place to go and play games with folks, but I don't want to be there if there are going to be kids there, and I will definitely spend more money than the kid who got dropped off by his mom because she was tired of watching him. By gearing your business away from adults you're essentially signing up for babysitting, not managing.