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Car Tire Angst

schattenjaegerschattenjaeger Registered User regular
I have a honda civic with Bridgestone Turanza something or others on them. The tires have slightly more than 20k miles on them. I recently had a nail and associated slow leak in a rear tire. By the time I noticed the leak two or three days later the tire had about 15 or so psi in it (I know, but it really didn't look visibly low). The nail was pretty close to the sidewall. It was still through the thread, but maybe a quarter inch or so from where the thread ended.

The place I took it to patched it and warned me about its location and to keep an eye on it in case it starts leaking again. I've been thinking and given that car tires are pretty important, maybe I shouldn't be too sketchy about this. If I were to buy new tires, do ya'll have any opinion on just replacing the back two? Internet research tells me that's common and to put them on the back, which is where they'd go anyways. Since it's so desirable to have the new treads on the back, and the front are 20k miles more worn, would I ever even rotate them again?

Also, should I consider just getting four new tires? That would give me a chance to change tire types since these are OEM (they were replaced once before, but with the OEM again for reasons I don't recall). Is that being unnecessarily wasteful with only 20k on the front tires (and I rotate them regularly). Am I being unnecessarily wasteful in the first place by distrusting the plug?

If four tires is a good idea, does anyone have any tire recommendations?

Posts

  • tinwhiskerstinwhiskers Registered User regular
    Honestly, just get a tire pressure gauge and use it when you are filling up gas.

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  • DaimarDaimar A Million Feet Tall of Awesome Registered User regular
    With only 20,000 miles on them just keep an eye on it, you shouldn't need to replace the tires that soon and patches hold up well, I think I'm driving on three right now that haven't given me any problems.

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  • schattenjaegerschattenjaeger Registered User regular
    If the concern is just that it'll redevelop the slow leak, I'm fine with that. I'm more worried about the risk of a high speed blowout, but I'm not really sure if the proximity to the sidewall increases that, or me possibly driving on it while it was badly underinflated for days.

    Also, more internet research tells me that the best way to repair tires is to plug it and also patch it from the inside, which involves demounting the tire and means you can make sure the puncture didn't damage anything. I'm not sure what the place I went to did - is that worth call and asking about?

  • schussschuss Registered User regular
    As long as the nail wasn't in the sidewall, you're good. Punctures in the center of the tire aren't a big deal, as small holes don't compromise the structure of the tire (unlike sidewall punctures). If you paid more than 10 bucks for the fix, guaranteed they plugged and patched, as they're just looking for an opportunity to sell you tires.

    High speed blowouts are very rare.

    chrishallett83DisruptedCapitalist
  • Kick_04Kick_04 Registered User regular
    I had the same issue with a tire on my Ford Ranger around a year ago to the day... I had no issues driving on it until this winter where the real cold weather would then deflate my tire some (talking about <30º for 8+ hours). So in the morning I had to put air into my tire, I got a 2nd nail in the actual side wall in March of this year so had to replace it then.

    I don't think I ever drove over 55mph however, don't do much highway driving... I do about 25miles a day for work. Anywhere from 10 miles to 60 miles on a weekend.

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  • chrishallett83chrishallett83 Hi! Registered User regular
    As long as the patch doesn't leak, you're good. As for getting new tyres and putting them on the back instead of the front, I fail to see the 'wisdom' behind that. The fronts do all the steering and the vast majority of the braking, so you want the best tyres with the most tread on the front, obviously.

    A lot of the time "the internet" doesn't know half of what it thinks it does.

    schuss
  • BouwsTBouwsT Wanna come to a super soft birthday party? Registered User regular
    edited May 2014
    I have a honda civic with Bridgestone Turanza something or others on them. The tires have slightly more than 20k miles on them. I recently had a nail and associated slow leak in a rear tire. By the time I noticed the leak two or three days later the tire had about 15 or so psi in it (I know, but it really didn't look visibly low). The nail was pretty close to the sidewall. It was still through the thread, but maybe a quarter inch or so from where the thread ended.

    The place I took it to patched it and warned me about its location and to keep an eye on it in case it starts leaking again. I've been thinking and given that car tires are pretty important, maybe I shouldn't be too sketchy about this. If I were to buy new tires, do ya'll have any opinion on just replacing the back two? Internet research tells me that's common and to put them on the back, which is where they'd go anyways. Since it's so desirable to have the new treads on the back, and the front are 20k miles more worn, would I ever even rotate them again?

    Also, should I consider just getting four new tires? That would give me a chance to change tire types since these are OEM (they were replaced once before, but with the OEM again for reasons I don't recall). Is that being unnecessarily wasteful with only 20k on the front tires (and I rotate them regularly). Am I being unnecessarily wasteful in the first place by distrusting the plug?

    If four tires is a good idea, does anyone have any tire recommendations?

    I think they are just covering their behinds for continued leaks, as a proper patch on the inside of the tire is a liiiiitle more tricky to apply when it's so close to the sidewall. Honestly, the repair should hold just fine, and if you aren't noticing a significant tire pressure loss over the course of the next week I think you're golden.

    The main problem with replacing two tires is when drive wheels have different diameter tires. Replacing two tires on a 2WD car is acceptable, so long as the tread depths on the drive tires are similar (front or rear). The reasoning behind this basically boils down to the car having to make up for that rotational difference internally, which wears components out prematurely. That's why replacing anything less than 4 tires on a 4WD or AWD is a big no-no.

    As far as I know, the Bridgestone Turanza EL400 is a 60,000 mile tire. You should have lots of life left, and I would trust a proper patch (or plug-patch, as the case may be) as I would trust a perfectly good tire.

    EDIT: Oh, and as far as rotations, you're perfectly okay to do that, so long as the tires stay paired up on the drive axle. Make sure that the tread depth left and right are similar. Front to back doesn't cause the associated wear/damage that left to right does.

    BouwsT on
    I shall be telling this with a sigh
    Somewhere ages and ages hence:
    Two roads diverged in a wood, and I—
    I took the one less traveled by,
    And that has made all the difference.
  • schattenjaegerschattenjaeger Registered User regular
    Kick_04 wrote: »
    I had the same issue with a tire on my Ford Ranger around a year ago to the day... I had no issues driving on it until this winter where the real cold weather would then deflate my tire some (talking about <30º for 8+ hours). So in the morning I had to put air into my tire, I got a 2nd nail in the actual side wall in March of this year so had to replace it then.

    I don't think I ever drove over 55mph however, don't do much highway driving... I do about 25miles a day for work. Anywhere from 10 miles to 60 miles on a weekend.

    For what it's worth I do lots of freeway driving at 70+mph, and am driving a few other people on a 1.5 hour roadtrip this very saturday. I can ask someone else to drive, but am not sure it's necessary.

  • tinwhiskerstinwhiskers Registered User regular
    As long as the patch doesn't leak, you're good. As for getting new tyres and putting them on the back instead of the front, I fail to see the 'wisdom' behind that. The fronts do all the steering and the vast majority of the braking, so you want the best tyres with the most tread on the front, obviously.

    A lot of the time "the internet" doesn't know half of what it thinks it does.

    http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=52

    Basically, new ones on the front make it much easier to hydro-plane and spin out. I looked this up, because I thought the same way, you brake/steer with the front.

    How do you spell Justice?B D S Non-Violent Resistance to Israel Apartheid & Occupation.
    tuxkamen
  • tuxkamentuxkamen Registered User regular
    As long as the patch doesn't leak, you're good. As for getting new tyres and putting them on the back instead of the front, I fail to see the 'wisdom' behind that. The fronts do all the steering and the vast majority of the braking, so you want the best tyres with the most tread on the front, obviously.

    A lot of the time "the internet" doesn't know half of what it thinks it does.

    I know it 'sounds right', but this is bad and dangerous advice. @tinwhiskers is right: You _absolutely_ want new tires (if you're getting two) on the rear. Any responsible tire shop (when they aren't trying to get you to upgrade to a full set) will either tell you this or have signage to that effect.


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  • GaslightGaslight Registered User regular
    Every tire shop I have ever been to agrees the new tires go in back. It was counter intuitive to me as well since my car is front wheel drive, but it's legit.

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  • Liquid HellzLiquid Hellz Registered User regular
    YMMV but I had two separate blowouts in a truck with 33" tires.. one I barely noticed and the other startled me and I slowly pulled over. Both going over 50 mph, one was a sidewall.. neither were that dangerous to drive with while pulling over. Patches usually work well if done correctly so I wouldn't worry too much.

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  • JasconiusJasconius sword criminal mad onlineRegistered User regular
    they warn about the patch because when a patch is near the shoulder of a tire that's a location where there can be a lot of physical force applied

    and the patch could come loose

    i think you should just monitor it

    if you do have to buy tires, it's fine to just buy two. hell, I've just bought one before.

  • schattenjaegerschattenjaeger Registered User regular
    tuxkamen wrote: »
    As long as the patch doesn't leak, you're good. As for getting new tyres and putting them on the back instead of the front, I fail to see the 'wisdom' behind that. The fronts do all the steering and the vast majority of the braking, so you want the best tyres with the most tread on the front, obviously.

    A lot of the time "the internet" doesn't know half of what it thinks it does.

    I know it 'sounds right', but this is bad and dangerous advice. @tinwhiskers is right: You _absolutely_ want new tires (if you're getting two) on the rear. Any responsible tire shop (when they aren't trying to get you to upgrade to a full set) will either tell you this or have signage to that effect.

    Thanks for the feedback everyone! I've quoted this reply because it now becomes relevant since the tire was at 25 psi this morning (although I'll air it up once just in case the shop accidentally underinflated it).

    If I do get two new tires on the rear, the front ones will have 20k plus more miles of wear on them. My understanding is that rotating the tires is to keep them wearing evenly, and that, as mentioned above, you want disproportionately unworn tires on the rear. Since they will always be considerably less worn in my case, it seems like rotating them would create the situation I want to avoid. Does that make sense? And since it is FWD the front tires will wear faster so the back ones likely won't "catch up"

    Also, as far as replacing just one tire, I think the idea is to not have differently sized tires on an axle because it messes with the differential, right? Is that concern overstated? Buying two tires (one of which is absolutely needed) wouldn't be a huge burden for me, but again, if I'm just being unnecessarily paranoid I'd like to know.

  • DjeetDjeet Registered User regular
    edited May 2014
    For FWD or RWD drive cars changing both tires on the axle is fine. During rotation the front axle tires get swapped with the rears so you have same circumference tires on each axle.

    You don't want different circumference tires on an axle, whether it be for differential or traction control reasons. You can replace just one, but it should be close in circumference to the the worn tire (I think the Subaru dealership told me within 1 cm, so there should be tolerances your dealer can tell you). It may sound ghetto, but if you cannot find such a tire new, there may be places you can get used tires from.

    Djeet on
    BouwsT
  • schattenjaegerschattenjaeger Registered User regular
    edited May 2014
    Djeet wrote: »
    For FWD or RWD drive cars changing both tires on the axle is fine. During rotation the front axle tires get swapped with the rears so you have same circumference tires on each axle.

    Right, the problem in my case being that rotating them puts the considerably more worn tires on the back, which is apparently bad as has been discussed. In that case, replacing a pair seems to put me in a cycle of always replacing them in pairs, and never getting their full life since I won't be rotating them. Thing is, I'm not sure how much loss that is and if it'd be worth it in the long run to just replace all four.

    Tires are dumb, I'm buying a tank.

    schattenjaeger on
  • DjeetDjeet Registered User regular
    edited May 2014
    I think that you are overthinking this. Put new pair in back. Rotate as per usual. When more worn pair is done, replace that pair. You don't need all 4 to be real close in circumference unless you have AWD. It is not a big deal to have your front pair have different circumference than your back pair if you are FWD or RWD.

    Edit: Or replace all 4. That works too, but is unnecessarily expensive for FWD/RWD.

    Djeet on
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  • schattenjaegerschattenjaeger Registered User regular
    Here, this link explains my new/old mismatched tire rotation concerns, and like it says in the second to last paragraph, if they're mismatched then that precludes future tire rotation. http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=52

    If you believe the idea that having badly worn tires on the rear is more dangerous than the front, then that's an unavoidable consequence. I'm sure millions of people have successfully ignored or been unaware of this advice with no ill consequences but since I'm aware of it I feel like I need to at least ask.

    BouwsT
  • DjeetDjeet Registered User regular
    edited May 2014
    Drive slower in the rain. Badly worn tires should be replaced.

    Djeet on
  • BouwsTBouwsT Wanna come to a super soft birthday party? Registered User regular
    Here, this link explains my new/old mismatched tire rotation concerns, and like it says in the second to last paragraph, if they're mismatched then that precludes future tire rotation. http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=52

    If you believe the idea that having badly worn tires on the rear is more dangerous than the front, then that's an unavoidable consequence. I'm sure millions of people have successfully ignored or been unaware of this advice with no ill consequences but since I'm aware of it I feel like I need to at least ask.

    I think you've got the right idea here. Also, it's not like you're replacing two tires and leaving two BALD tires on the car. Your other tires are perfectly fine. I would honestly suggest putting the new tires on the front to even up the wear a bit, and start rotating as per usual.

    What sort of a climate do you live in? Do you see extreme rain often? That would be my only concern about rear tire hydroplane.

    I shall be telling this with a sigh
    Somewhere ages and ages hence:
    Two roads diverged in a wood, and I—
    I took the one less traveled by,
    And that has made all the difference.
  • tuxkamentuxkamen Registered User regular
    Here, this link explains my new/old mismatched tire rotation concerns, and like it says in the second to last paragraph, if they're mismatched then that precludes future tire rotation. http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=52

    If you believe the idea that having badly worn tires on the rear is more dangerous than the front, then that's an unavoidable consequence. I'm sure millions of people have successfully ignored or been unaware of this advice with no ill consequences but since I'm aware of it I feel like I need to at least ask.

    One of the reasons for putting the used tires in the front is that the car, being heavier up front, will provide more downward force on the tires and improve their contact.

    What you're trying to avoid with a rotation schedule are two things--uneven wear front to back due to normal usage, and uneven wear from side to side due to being a delivery truck (not too common) or alignment issues (who knows?). Your tire shop can usually give you a good idea as to whether you need an alignment done.

    If you keep a good rotation schedule, then your new rear tires will be broken in a little by the time they go to the front, which isn't _as_ bad.

    (Keep in mind, the advice here isn't necessarily because we're worried you'll fishtail off a mountain the first time you hit a drop of water. At the same time, how much rain you experience is irrelevant. Any non-trivial amount of rain on a flat or poorly graded road has the potential to cause hydroplaning. It does not take a lot as long as there is standing water.)


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    Thus, the others all die before tuxkamen dies to the vote. Hence, tuxkamen survives, village victory.
    3DS: 2406-5451-5770
  • chrishallett83chrishallett83 Hi! Registered User regular
    As long as the patch doesn't leak, you're good. As for getting new tyres and putting them on the back instead of the front, I fail to see the 'wisdom' behind that. The fronts do all the steering and the vast majority of the braking, so you want the best tyres with the most tread on the front, obviously.

    A lot of the time "the internet" doesn't know half of what it thinks it does.

    http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=52

    Basically, new ones on the front make it much easier to hydro-plane and spin out. I looked this up, because I thought the same way, you brake/steer with the front.

    I still don't believe it. Some folks think understeer is safer than oversteer, good for them.

  • schattenjaegerschattenjaeger Registered User regular
    Well thanks for the feedback and discussion, everyone! Turns out the tire isn't leaking (I apparently just can't read numbers) so everything has worked out!

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