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[PA Comic] Monday, June 30, 2014 - Quantification

DogDog Registered User, Administrator, Vanilla Staff admin
edited June 2014 in The Penny Arcade Hub

image[PA Comic] Monday, June 30, 2014 - Quantification

Quantification

Quantification

http://penny-arcade.com/comic/2014/06/30

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    JortalusJortalus Registered User regular
    Doesn't Nathaniel sound like the perfect name for a snooty kid with snooty parents?

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    FiendishrabbitFiendishrabbit Registered User regular
    Jortalus wrote: »
    Doesn't Nathaniel sound like the perfect name for a snooty kid with snooty parents?

    It's because everyone who isn't a prat would call him Nathan instead.

    If you're not an angel, demon or a mermaid your name, as used in conversations, should not end with "-iel"

    "The western world sips from a poisonous cocktail: Polarisation, populism, protectionism and post-truth"
    -Antje Jackelén, Archbishop of the Church of Sweden
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    Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Registered User regular
    Daniel?

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    FiendishrabbitFiendishrabbit Registered User regular
    Daniel?

    Dan or Danny.

    "The western world sips from a poisonous cocktail: Polarisation, populism, protectionism and post-truth"
    -Antje Jackelén, Archbishop of the Church of Sweden
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    Lingering GrinLingering Grin Registered User regular
    edited June 2014
    What about Castiel? That's pretty badass, shortened or not.

    Lingering Grin on
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    FiendishrabbitFiendishrabbit Registered User regular
    What about Castiel? That's pretty badass, shortened or not.

    Angels only.

    "The western world sips from a poisonous cocktail: Polarisation, populism, protectionism and post-truth"
    -Antje Jackelén, Archbishop of the Church of Sweden
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    NeuroskepticNeuroskeptic Registered User regular
    Notice how everyone is drinking red wine except Gabe.

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    WearingglassesWearingglasses Of the friendly neighborhood variety Registered User regular
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    TheLaveTheLave Registered User new member
    Is limited screen time really that bad? If anything, sometimes we are getting our kids too addicted to technology.

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    AgentflitAgentflit Registered User regular
    If you're not an angel, demon or a mermaid your name, as used in conversations, should not end with "-iel"

    Gabriel?

    690418717_7p4wX-L.jpg

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    FiendishrabbitFiendishrabbit Registered User regular
    Ariel?

    Mermaid
    Agentflit wrote: »
    Gabriel?

    Gabe

    "The western world sips from a poisonous cocktail: Polarisation, populism, protectionism and post-truth"
    -Antje Jackelén, Archbishop of the Church of Sweden
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    PedroAsaniPedroAsani Brotherhood of the Squirrel [Prime]Registered User regular
    TheLave wrote: »
    Is limited screen time really that bad? If anything, sometimes we are getting our kids too addicted to technology.

    Not all screens are equal. Watching 2 hours of documentaries about, for example, WWII is far better than a Honey Boo Boo marathon. 4 hours building something in Minecraft is far better than 4 hours playing Candy Crush. The time spent on a device is analogous to any other medium: what matters is the content. Policing time spent on any activity is worthless in comparison to monitoring the actual content of the activity.

    If a kid goes outside for 3 hours and gets exercise, does it matter how? Well if it's beating the crap out of another kid, stealing from the corner store and running from the owner, then sure. Extreme examples? Of course, it's the easiest way to illustrate the point.

    The common factor is that a parent needs to be involved in the kids activities, in their life.

    To paraphrase and butcher Bill Rose, from Warren Ellis' Transmetropolitan #40:
    Everyone's looking for someone to blame. Society. Culture. Hollywood. Video Games. Looking everywhere but the right place. Children are very simple. Very easy devices to break, or assemble wrong. You want to know who is ultimately responsible? Only their parents. That's the thing no one wants to hear. Every time you stop thinking about how you're treating your kid, you are failing as a parent. It really is as simple as that. It's got nothing to do with the failure of the society or any of that. It's got everything to do with the responsibility of making a human. Why are your kids dysfunctional? Because you fucked up the job of raising them. That's what no one wants to hear. That we can't blame anything outside our houses.

    And at this point you will often hear the refrains "Well I can't watch them all the time" or "I'm so exhausted from work" "What about time to myself?" Look, you decided to have the kid. It's a self-inflicted job you have now, and if you are choosing to abdicate responsibility for doing it, just be honest and say so. "I don't care enough to put in the effort required." Fine. And when your kid is playing something they shouldn't, watching something they shouldn't, doing something they shouldn't, you will know where the blame lies. You.

    It seems to be common now that kids are given devices to occupy them in lieu of parenting. So yes, limiting based on screen time is bad. It's sloppy parenting, it's measuring the wrong metric, it's uninvolved abdication of responsibility based on the least effort required.

    The right thing to do? Monitor what they watch, be involved in what they do. The medium is irrelevant.

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    QuidQuid Definitely not a banana Registered User regular
    TheLave wrote: »
    Is limited screen time really that bad? If anything, sometimes we are getting our kids too addicted to technology.

    It's not necessarily depending on why and how much and lots of other stuff mentioned by Pedro.

    The joke here is that Gabe is bad in social situations.

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    PsykomaPsykoma Registered User regular
    From gabe's AMA last year
    We have no hard rules about screen time. For me it is about content not time. If he is playing Minecraft and building working circuits with redstone, well shit he can do that all day. If he is watching My Little Pony then I might cut him off after an hour.

    There was also a PAX Q&A (on PA:TS, I think?) where he answered roughly the same thing

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    SinbadEVSinbadEV Registered User regular
    In our house we limit when "screen time" happens but mostly because we've noted a correlation between "Screen Time After 5:30" and "Not Wanting To Sleep at 7:30"... we further limit "video games" to "not on school nights" because The Boy get's so darned excited that he sleeps poorly and loses his impulse-control skills the next day. He's four though so his impulse-control is already tenuous to begin with. Now that it's summer I'm not sure what will happen to this set-up... maybe he'll be able to handle his games by the time he starts Senior Kindergarten.

    What frustrates me is less the "limiting to ensure a well rounded experience" or "limiting because this specific situation warrants it" and more this attitude that some other parents seem to have that "screen time" is inherently evil. It's rock and roll all over again.

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    orthancstoneorthancstone TexasRegistered User regular
    That second panel is awesome. Wouldn't mind that as a desktop.

    PAX South 2018 - Jan 12-14!
    Pins!
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    Soul SanctumSoul Sanctum Registered User regular
    edited June 2014
    TheLave wrote: »
    Is limited screen time really that bad? If anything, sometimes we are getting our kids too addicted to technology.

    I don't really understand what quantifies as "addicted to technology" EVERYTHING is essentially technology.

    Addicted to eating cooked and disease-free food.
    Addicted to showering and bathing.
    Addicted to books.
    Addicted to bicycles.
    Addicted to grammar.

    Why do newer technologies and ways of life get shunned as being "unhealthy" and "bad" just because they are new and diverge from the traditional? There is no objective standard for the methodology of society and personal human actions (as long as you aren't hurting anyone). I'm sure people from 200+ years ago would see us all as coddled babies pampered and addicted to all this newfangled tekmologies.

    Soul Sanctum on
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    DarkewolfeDarkewolfe Registered User regular
    As a full grown man who sometimes spends, like, 20% of a real day playing fucking match three games, I can whole-heartedly agree that there are some capacities where "limiting screen time" makes sense.

    Gabriel's real life counterpart also knows this, where he differentiates between a cold medium like watching tv and a hot medium like Minecraft building.

    Gabriel the cartoon man yells at people during parties and embarrasses his cartoon wife in a way that we all internally sympathize with and admire/are-amused-by.

    What is this I don't even.
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    Gamer8585Gamer8585 Registered User regular
    Once again John Gabriel says what I think. I have to bite my tongue really hard to not snap at strangers when I hear them say this kind of shit when I'm out in public.

    The important thing is not limiting "screen time," but introducing enjoyable activities for your child. What if Nathan starts "playing" outside with the wrong group of kids and eventually shoots up his school (and lets face it with parents like that the kid is probably already a ticking time bomb)? Bet a couple of extra hours in front of the TV would start to look really good.

    My Daughter is 2 and already likes playing around on phones and hitting buttons when I play video games, but she also loves running around outside and playing with the neighborhood kids. If she grows up to want to play videogames then that's fine as long as she gets her homework done and keeps her grades up. My wife and I will expose her to different things, but only to give her options and keep her well rounded. Of course that's because we're good parents that take an interest in our child and aren't predisposed to blaming society for our fuckups.

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    GaslightGaslight Registered User regular
    Gamer8585 wrote: »
    What if Nathan starts "playing" outside with the wrong group of kids and eventually shoots up his school (and lets face it with parents like that the kid is probably already a ticking time bomb)?

    Saying a kid is going to become a violent criminal because his parents limit the amount of time he spends on video games/the internet is just about exactly as silly as thinking a kid is going to turn into a violent criminal because he spends too much time on video games/the internet.

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    quixquix Registered User regular
    Gaslight wrote: »
    Gamer8585 wrote: »
    What if Nathan starts "playing" outside with the wrong group of kids and eventually shoots up his school (and lets face it with parents like that the kid is probably already a ticking time bomb)?

    Saying a kid is going to become a violent criminal because his parents limit the amount of time he spends on video games/the internet is just about exactly as silly as thinking a kid is going to turn into a violent criminal because he spends too much time on video games/the internet.

    That's his point.

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    bgmpabgmpa Registered User new member
    TheLave wrote: »
    Is limited screen time really that bad?

    Depends on how old the kid is and how long (45 minutes a day as stated in the comic is quite bad), limited screen time is bad compared to no screen at all, and not so bad compared to no limit. The younger the kid, the longer the exposure, the more dramatic the consequences.

    PedroAsani wrote: »
    Not all screens are equal. (...) The time spent on a device is analogous to any other medium: what matters is the content. Policing time spent on any activity is worthless in comparison to monitoring the actual content of the activity.

    Would be nice if it was backed up by science, but the scientific literature says otherwise: content is irrelevant it doesn't make a significant difference, even watching tv and playing videogames has mostly the same consequences. It's being in exposed to a screen or not that make a difference.

    This french neuroscientist, Michel Desmurget, wrote a book compiling what science knows and says about being exposed to tv, turns out there is a scientific consensus and decades of data to back it up. There's not as much data about videogames because it's less studied but what we know points to pretty much the same effects as tv. The younger the kid, the longer the exposure, the more dramatic the consequences.

    The book on amazon: http://www.amazon.com/TV-lobotomie-Michel-Desmurget/dp/2290038059/

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    quixquix Registered User regular
    This is a really interesting Ted Talk that touches on this topic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BoT7qH_uVNo

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    KalTorakKalTorak One way or another, they all end up in the Undercity.Registered User regular
    Limiting screen time is going to get pretty tough as time goes on.

    Motherfucking screens on everything.

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    StockBreakStockBreak Registered User regular
    Limiting screen time seems fine to me (45 minutes seems a bit low though), but if the parents don't offer any other options to occupy the child's time it's pointless. My "screen time" was limited at points during my childhood but alternative options included playing outside in 95-100 degree weather or (ugh) reading my Bible. For some reason watching TV never drew the kind of skepticism playing my SNES did, although certain shows were forbidden. In retrospect I probably would've benefited from developing myself somehow instead of playing Mario Kart and Street Fighter ad nauseum, but we were poor so what can you do.

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    GaslightGaslight Registered User regular
    quix wrote: »
    Gaslight wrote: »
    Gamer8585 wrote: »
    What if Nathan starts "playing" outside with the wrong group of kids and eventually shoots up his school (and lets face it with parents like that the kid is probably already a ticking time bomb)?

    Saying a kid is going to become a violent criminal because his parents limit the amount of time he spends on video games/the internet is just about exactly as silly as thinking a kid is going to turn into a violent criminal because he spends too much time on video games/the internet.

    That's his point.

    I really don't think it was.

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    PLAPLA The process.Registered User regular
    I technically had a limited screentime. In that I had a bedtime.

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    PsykomaPsykoma Registered User regular
    edited June 2014
    bgmpa wrote: »
    This french neuroscientist, Michel Desmurget, wrote a book compiling what science knows and says about being exposed to tv, turns out there is a scientific consensus and decades of data to back it up. There's not as much data about videogames because it's less studied but what we know points to pretty much the same effects as tv. The younger the kid, the longer the exposure, the more dramatic the consequences.

    I'm calling bullshit on the bolded part until you post the actual study that says a passive activity like watching tv has the same effect overall as a participative activity like video games.

    Psykoma on
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    Hahnsoo1Hahnsoo1 Make Ready. We Hunt.Registered User regular
    In other news, a Tycho post at 9:30 AM? AMAZE-BALLS.

    8i1dt37buh2m.png
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    Captain MarcusCaptain Marcus now arrives the hour of actionRegistered User regular
    Eh. Give 'em some legos or take 'em to the library to pick out a book or two. Failing that, it's summer, and I'm sure your kid would be happy to have one of his friends over.

    There are plenty of other things kids can do that don't involve their eyes glazing over in front of a LCD screen.

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    admanbadmanb unionize your workplace Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    Eh. Give 'em some legos or take 'em to the library to pick out a book or two. Failing that, it's summer, and I'm sure your kid would be happy to have one of his friends over.

    There are plenty of other things kids can do that don't involve their eyes glazing over in front of a LCD screen.

    I dunno that I've ever had my eyes glaze over in front of an LCD screen except at work or in school.

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    PsykomaPsykoma Registered User regular
    edited June 2014
    The amount of lego you'd need to even approach your building capability in minecraft would run into the hundreds of thousands (millions?) of dollars.

    Not everyone's got that kind of scratch.

    Psykoma on
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    mnihilmnihil Registered User regular
    edited June 2014
    edit: You know, what? Nevermind. Sorry!

    mnihil on
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    trip1eXtrip1eX Registered User regular
    edited June 2014
    I frequently tell my kids no screens until 7pm or something like that. They get too addicted to their devices otherwise. They will spend every waking hour on them unless I put the foot down or they have some structured activities to go to.

    And sure some uses of screens are better than others but how do you monitor that stuff? It is one thing to say oh it is fine if you do abc activity on the iPad but not xyz. and another matter to enforce it especially if xyz activity is fine sometimes and xyz activity is a touch or two away and when xyz activity can easily be brought to any room in the house with these devices.

    I think the problem for me as a parent is the iPad's parental controls haven't caught up with the rest of the technology.

    As a parent I want the ability to see what what programs my kid has been or is using. I want to be able to easily limit and turn on and off what programs they can use from my own device. Or to place time limits on various programs. Or to easily turn on/off Internet access. Etc. Etc. We need better screen activity management tools for parents.

    Yes I too feel Ninjago is fine but not for 8 hours. And that my kid using his device to make a creative YouTube video is a more constructive use... And time spent doing that wouldn't be as limited as watching Ninjago. When my kids are on screens with friends I tend to relax my limits too. Or if it is a rainy day etc. But we need better to help monitor and manage this.


    And even then I think limiting overall screen time is important because the world is run on real human interaction and physical activity is important for your physical and mental and emotional well being.

    trip1eX on
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    DragkoniasDragkonias That Guy Who Does Stuff You Know, There. Registered User regular
    At the end of the day, I think its up to the parent to figure out how they're going to raise their kid.

    I mean chances are its not going to be perfect and you're going to screw up pretty bad in some areas.

    Either way, as far as my opinion goes. I think the only problem I have with too much screen time is that it might interfere with a child's social and physical development.

    Like all things, I think a good balance is necessary.

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    GaslightGaslight Registered User regular
    trip1eX wrote: »
    I think the problem for me as a parent is the iPad's parental controls haven't caught up with the rest of the technology.

    The Kindle Fire family definitely seem to have the most robust parental control features right now.

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    Ryan A. ElliottRyan A. Elliott Registered User regular
    I hate them too, Gabe.

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    Dropping LoadsDropping Loads Registered User regular
    Regardless of thoughts on creativity and social development, too much screen time can be physically unhealthy. Starting at a fixed distance means kids don't refocus their eyes enough which can atrophy the eye muscles, which is particularly bad for kids that are farsighted or have weak eyes. Increased sedentary activity and cramped posture / hand positions can also be a problem. If you still want to have more screen time, bust out the kinect and take regular breaks.

    Sceptre: Penny Arcade, where you get starcraft AND marriage advice.
    3clipse: The key to any successful marriage is a good mid-game transition.
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    PedroAsaniPedroAsani Brotherhood of the Squirrel [Prime]Registered User regular
    bgmpa wrote: »
    PedroAsani wrote: »
    Not all screens are equal. (...) The time spent on a device is analogous to any other medium: what matters is the content. Policing time spent on any activity is worthless in comparison to monitoring the actual content of the activity.

    Would be nice if it was backed up by science, but the scientific literature says otherwise: content is irrelevant it doesn't make a significant difference, even watching tv and playing videogames has mostly the same consequences. It's being in exposed to a screen or not that make a difference.

    This french neuroscientist, Michel Desmurget, wrote a book compiling what science knows and says about being exposed to tv, turns out there is a scientific consensus and decades of data to back it up. There's not as much data about videogames because it's less studied but what we know points to pretty much the same effects as tv. The younger the kid, the longer the exposure, the more dramatic the consequences.

    The book on amazon: http://www.amazon.com/TV-lobotomie-Michel-Desmurget/dp/2290038059/

    The video that Quix linked to says precisely that the content matters. Mr Rogers causes no increase, PowerPuff Girls causes a noticeable increase and Violence causes a huge increase. So yes, content matters greatly.

    The only things I was allowed to watch as a child were the news during the Falklands War (so I just dated myself there) and Sesame Street. The latter is credited with me being able to read at a younger age, and being at a higher level than other kids when I started school.

    I would imagine that given the context of the video Quix linked, what matters most is the pace of the game when it comes to video games. Something like Minecraft or Project Spark where you have to construct things forces you to slow down and think, so the pace is a lot slower than something like an FPS or even Fruit Ninja and Candy Crush.

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    DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    Ariel?

    Mermaid or stripper only.

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