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[eSports] Insanity. International e-Sports Federation Says: No girls allowed!

vagrant_windsvagrant_winds Overworked Mysterious Eldritch Horror Hunter XXRegistered User regular
edited July 2014 in Games and Technology
I... I... wha?

Full article here: http://www.pcgamer.com/2014/07/02/hearthstone-tournament/
And another one here: http://www.polygon.com/2014/7/2/5864437/hearthstone-esports-gender-blizzard

Long story short, the Finish eSports Federation is banning Female players form playing in its Hearthstone and other tournaments because if they won the qualifier, they wouldn't be able to compete in the IeSF World Championship. It would 'be a shame' if a Girl beat a Boy at a fucking card game and would advance to the world stage, only to get disqualified because she has ladyparts when we could have had an inferior Boy compete in their place.

What are the events at the IeSF World Champinoship? Dota 2 (Males onle). Starcraft 2 (separate and segraded Male + Female competitions). Hearthstone (Males only). Ultra Street Fighter IV (Males only). Tekken Tag Tournament 2 (Females only). You read that right. Apparently only men are allowed to play Card Games and MOBAs and gender dictates what Fighting Game a player is allowed to play, not personal preference.

The official statement?

"The decision to divide male and female competitions was made in accordance with international sports authorities, as part of our effort to promote e-Sports as a legitimate sports."

Translation: "Real" sports are divided by gender, thus in our effort to transform e-Sports into "Real" sports we will arbitrarily divide our video games with no physical components at all by gender as well, because we're all giant assholes and are terrified of the concept of men getting their asses kicked by women. Never mind that e-Sports aren't gender divided in North America and you see girls kicking ass at Evo (and other fighting game tournaments), MOBA (LoL & Dota 2). and various online tournaments all the damn fucking time but Europe has to bend over and bow to sexist policies started in Korea.

This makes me sick. There's no fucking logical reason for this besides blatant sexism.

Edit: Score one for internet-wide rage (and probably notification to the sponsors)! All IeSF formally "Male Only" events are now “Open for All” events.
http://ie-sf.com/bbs/board.php?bo_table=iesf_notice&wr_id=105

Edit #2: It was Blizzard that laid down the smackdown.
Blizzard has been in contact with the organization about the segregation imposed upon tournaments of its card game Hearthstone and understood that it updated the rules "to make it clear that their Hearthstone tournament will be open to all players."

"One of our goals with eSports is to ensure that there's a vibrant and also inclusive community around our games," Blizzard said in a statement provided to Polygon. "We do not allow the use of our games in tournaments that do not support this, and are working with our partners to ensure they share the same goal."

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    GnizmoGnizmo Registered User regular
    Seriously? Like I can kinda get behind the logic for segregating physical sports. The appearance of discrimination in some would be bad enough that it would only cause problems any other way. Even that seems pretty flimsy to me most days. This? I can't even begin to conjure up a reason.

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    APODionysusAPODionysus Registered User regular
    That quote is gross. The segregation of the sexes in physical sports is one of its worst traits. And they want to emulate that to be accepted? That's crap.

    One of the great things about e-sports is that it doesn't have to be limited by the barriers that are in place for mainstream sports. Male, Female, young, old...doesn't matter! Anyone can theoretically compete! E-Sports should be TRUMPETING that fact from the rooftops! Not trying to change it.

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    vagrant_windsvagrant_winds Overworked Mysterious Eldritch Horror Hunter XX Registered User regular
    edited July 2014
    Because girls aren't allowed to play children's card games on motorcycles. They have cooties and stuff.

    Hilariously, another response: "International standards. IeSF is very close to get e-Sports recognized as a true sports like it should be. Part of that efforts is to comply with the international sports regulations. For example, chess is also divided into male / female leagues."

    Because Chess doesn't allow Women to compete in the normal "Mens" competition. And the highest ranked female chess player for the last 20 years hasn't only ever competed in the "Mens" competition and never the Women's league. I must be miss-remembering things. Oh wait. It's the exact opposite.
    (Non-sarcastic translation: Judit Polgár, the best female chess player in the world, eight top ranked player overall in the entire world, and winner of multiple tournaments has only ever competed in the "Mens" chess tournaments and never any "Women-only" tournaments.)

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    KyouguKyougu Registered User regular
    This is insane in many levels.

    Not a great week to be a woman gamer apparently (more than I usual I imagine).

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    LorahaloLorahalo Registered User regular
    I'd love to see them wrap their heads around someone like Scarlett, a very successful transgender SC2 player. That'd confuse them.

    I have a podcast about Digimon called the Digital Moncast, on Audio Entropy.
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    vagrant_windsvagrant_winds Overworked Mysterious Eldritch Horror Hunter XX Registered User regular
    Lorahalo wrote: »
    I'd love to see them wrap their heads around someone like Scarlett, a very successful transgender SC2 player. That'd confuse them.

    What's so hard? She's a girl that kicks ass at SC2.

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    WyvernWyvern Registered User regular
    That quote is gross. The segregation of the sexes in physical sports is one of its worst traits. And they want to emulate that to be accepted? That's crap.

    One of the great things about e-sports is that it doesn't have to be limited by the barriers that are in place for mainstream sports. Male, Female, young, old...doesn't matter! Anyone can theoretically compete! E-Sports should be TRUMPETING that fact from the rooftops! Not trying to change it.
    Hilariously (or not), check out the IeSF's literal self-description from their actual facebook page:
    IeSF wrote:
    International e-Sports Federation (IeSF) is a global organisation based in South Korea that attempts to promote e-Sports as true sports beyond barriers.

    Do big organizations like this need some sort of official Blizzard stamp of approval to operate with their games? It'll be interesting to see what their response is to this mess.

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    GnizmoGnizmo Registered User regular
    Wyvern wrote: »
    That quote is gross. The segregation of the sexes in physical sports is one of its worst traits. And they want to emulate that to be accepted? That's crap.

    One of the great things about e-sports is that it doesn't have to be limited by the barriers that are in place for mainstream sports. Male, Female, young, old...doesn't matter! Anyone can theoretically compete! E-Sports should be TRUMPETING that fact from the rooftops! Not trying to change it.
    Hilariously (or not), check out the IeSF's literal self-description from their actual facebook page:
    IeSF wrote:
    International e-Sports Federation (IeSF) is a global organisation based in South Korea that attempts to promote e-Sports as true sports beyond barriers.

    Do big organizations like this need some sort of official Blizzard stamp of approval to operate with their games? It'll be interesting to see what their response is to this mess.

    They technically don't need the seal of approval, but good luck getting a worthwhile SC2 tournament without it. Blizzard sets up remote servers at major tournaments to take care of online lag. So Blizzard could step up in a big way here.

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    GaslightGaslight Registered User regular
    That quote is gross. The segregation of the sexes in physical sports is one of its worst traits. And they want to emulate that to be accepted? That's crap.

    The segregation of the genders in physical sports makes sense on the basis of the general disparity between the genders in physical ability.

    It obviously makes no goddamn sense at all in a "sport" played entirely by people sitting on their asses in front of screens.

    That it was apparently motivated by a desire to seem like a "real" (physical) sport only shows how stupid and counter-productive that desire is. Video games are not a weird fringe thing only nerds like anymore. An entire generation of people have grown up liking sports and also liking video games. We don't need to try to pretend "eSports" are the same thing as physical sports to get people to like them; "eSports" will only ever look ridiculous when they try.

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    ShadowfireShadowfire Vermont, in the middle of nowhereRegistered User regular
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    LorahaloLorahalo Registered User regular
    Lorahalo wrote: »
    I'd love to see them wrap their heads around someone like Scarlett, a very successful transgender SC2 player. That'd confuse them.

    What's so hard? She's a girl that kicks ass at SC2.

    I think anyone that wants to gender separate e-sports tournaments might struggle with the concept.

    I have a podcast about Digimon called the Digital Moncast, on Audio Entropy.
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    DehumanizedDehumanized Registered User regular
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    vagrant_windsvagrant_winds Overworked Mysterious Eldritch Horror Hunter XX Registered User regular
    It's not that Women don't even play on Men's physical sports teams either. There's no outright ban on it for the vast majority of leagues. Sure, it's rare because of the physicality differences, but it happens. There's Women players in professional Men's (American) Football and Hockey right now.

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    ShadowfireShadowfire Vermont, in the middle of nowhereRegistered User regular
    There are? I don't follow closely enough, but I'd love examples so I can shove them in people's faces.

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    wonderpugwonderpug Registered User regular
    There's Women players in professional Men's (American) Football and Hockey right now.

    Who are they? I hadn't heard about this, and my attempts at googling for more info are turning up mostly satirical articles.

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    GaslightGaslight Registered User regular
    edited July 2014
    wonderpug wrote: »
    There's Women players in professional Men's (American) Football and Hockey right now.

    Who are they? I hadn't heard about this, and my attempts at googling for more info are turning up mostly satirical articles.

    There have been female hockey players who have played alongside/against men, although I don't know of any who've done so at the top level except in exhibitions. One example: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manon_Rhéaume

    I am not aware of any women who currently play in predominantly male (American) football leagues. There have been some women who have played on men's college football teams.

    Gaslight on
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    SomeWarlockSomeWarlock Registered User regular
    Lorahalo wrote: »
    Lorahalo wrote: »
    I'd love to see them wrap their heads around someone like Scarlett, a very successful transgender SC2 player. That'd confuse them.

    What's so hard? She's a girl that kicks ass at SC2.

    I think anyone that wants to gender separate e-sports tournaments might struggle with the concept.

    Eh, there's non-sexist reasons for wanting women's only tournaments, even in e-sports. Women do face discrimination when it comes to competitive sports, no matter either it's a physical sport or not(as seen here), and women's leagues can be a way to help counter that, from a feminist perspective. The idea being similar to the region locking in e-sports; providing a environment where female players can get established and make a name for themselves. Scarlett in Starcraft 2 got her start from the women's only Iron Lady series of tournaments, for example.

    Of course, that's an argument for women's only tournaments, and not an argument for hard gender segregation, especially at the top levels. IeSF is clearly in the wrong here.

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    vagrant_windsvagrant_winds Overworked Mysterious Eldritch Horror Hunter XX Registered User regular
    Shannon Szabados, the goalie for the Canadian gold medal winning Olympic hockey team is currently signed with the Columbus Cottonmouths of Columbus, Georgia (League: Southern Professional Hockey League).
    Jennifer Welter, two time Woman's Football gold medalist, is a player for the Texas Revolution (League: Indoor Football League) and was promoted to Starter for the 2014 season.

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    So It GoesSo It Goes We keep moving...Registered User regular
    This is absurd.

    Is contacting Blizzard a possibility here that might actually yield results?

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    DehumanizedDehumanized Registered User regular
    re: women competing in men's sports

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jackie_Mitchell

    not mentioned in this article: a few days after Mitchell struck out Lou Gherig and Babe Ruth, the league commissioner voided her contract and declared women "unfit to play baseball"

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    vagrant_windsvagrant_winds Overworked Mysterious Eldritch Horror Hunter XX Registered User regular
    re: women competing in men's sports

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jackie_Mitchell

    not mentioned in this article: a few days after Mitchell struck out Lou Gherig and Babe Ruth, the league commissioner voided her contract and declared women "unfit to play baseball"

    I don't know whether to Awesome this for the strike out, or Hail Hydra this for the blatant sexism after being beaten by a girl.

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    ShadowfireShadowfire Vermont, in the middle of nowhereRegistered User regular
    So It Goes wrote: »
    This is absurd.

    Is contacting Blizzard a possibility here that might actually yield results?

    People are contacting Blizzard on Twitter already, but it doesn't hurt to add another voice.

    And I'd imagine Blizzard could have something to say about it considering they were able to stop StarCraft tournaments for a while there.

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    ZxerolZxerol for the smaller pieces, my shovel wouldn't do so i took off my boot and used my shoeRegistered User regular
    If "international sports regulations" (as if there's this monolithic world body that decrees that, yes, you are now a Real Sport) require you to be sexist boneheads about it, then esports can burn and die for all I care.

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    cloudeaglecloudeagle Registered User regular
    edited July 2014
    Well, so much for e-sports being taken seriously.

    I mean, "being beaten by a girl would upset people" is an actual justification by the organizing body? Good fucking lord.

    cloudeagle on
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    ShadowfireShadowfire Vermont, in the middle of nowhereRegistered User regular
    Lorahalo wrote: »
    Lorahalo wrote: »
    I'd love to see them wrap their heads around someone like Scarlett, a very successful transgender SC2 player. That'd confuse them.

    What's so hard? She's a girl that kicks ass at SC2.

    I think anyone that wants to gender separate e-sports tournaments might struggle with the concept.

    Eh, there's non-sexist reasons for wanting women's only tournaments, even in e-sports. Women do face discrimination when it comes to competitive sports, no matter either it's a physical sport or not(as seen here), and women's leagues can be a way to help counter that, from a feminist perspective. The idea being similar to the region locking in e-sports; providing a environment where female players can get established and make a name for themselves. Scarlett in Starcraft 2 got her start from the women's only Iron Lady series of tournaments, for example.

    Of course, that's an argument for women's only tournaments, and not an argument for hard gender segregation, especially at the top levels. IeSF is clearly in the wrong here.

    Thing is, you don't need segregated leagues to promote diversity. Want to make the league safe for women to complete? The minute a male player (or spectator) starts being a sexist shit, they're removed from competition permanently. People will either get in line quick, or the whole thing will burn to the ground, either of which are OK by me considering the end goal.

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    So It GoesSo It Goes We keep moving...Registered User regular
    Lorahalo wrote: »
    Lorahalo wrote: »
    I'd love to see them wrap their heads around someone like Scarlett, a very successful transgender SC2 player. That'd confuse them.

    What's so hard? She's a girl that kicks ass at SC2.

    I think anyone that wants to gender separate e-sports tournaments might struggle with the concept.

    Eh, there's non-sexist reasons for wanting women's only tournaments, even in e-sports. Women do face discrimination when it comes to competitive sports, no matter either it's a physical sport or not(as seen here), and women's leagues can be a way to help counter that, from a feminist perspective. The idea being similar to the region locking in e-sports; providing a environment where female players can get established and make a name for themselves. Scarlett in Starcraft 2 got her start from the women's only Iron Lady series of tournaments, for example.

    Of course, that's an argument for women's only tournaments, and not an argument for hard gender segregation, especially at the top levels. IeSF is clearly in the wrong here.
    Another feminist perspective might label this benevolent sexism.

    You can segregate women in an effort to avoid discrimination, or you could say "don't be fucking sexist dickwads" and enforce rules against it when it happens.

    I hate when "but people will be mean to them" is the reason to exclude a group of people from something. How about taking on the real problem, which is the people who are actually in the wrong?

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    815165815165 Registered User regular
    cloudeagle wrote: »
    Well, so much for e-sports being taken seriously.

    I mean, "being beaten by a girl would upset people" is an actual justification by the organizing body? Good fucking lord.

    not sure you read the article

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    21stCentury21stCentury Call me Pixel, or Pix for short! [They/Them]Registered User regular
    Well, since a lot of real sports have the risk of getting concussions when playing, i suggest they also introduce the concuss-o-matic. Whenever someone makes a bad play, they get hit in the head with a hammer. This will surely elevate eSports to the legitimacy it so dearly craves.

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    NobodyNobody Registered User regular
    Somebody on the Blizzard Hearthstone forums started a thread about this. I'd suggest not reading it if you are worried about your blood pressure.

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    ZxerolZxerol for the smaller pieces, my shovel wouldn't do so i took off my boot and used my shoeRegistered User regular
    Nobody wrote: »
    Somebody on the Blizzard Hearthstone forums started a thread about this. I'd suggest not reading it if you are worried about your blood pressure.

    Dawg, you can't link to something and tell people not to click on it. People gonna click on it! Like I just did!

    Because I'm a dumbass!

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    ShadowfireShadowfire Vermont, in the middle of nowhereRegistered User regular
    All of the standard terms being thrown around. I saw "White Knight" at least twice.

    Ugh...

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    cloudeaglecloudeagle Registered User regular
    815165 wrote: »
    cloudeagle wrote: »
    Well, so much for e-sports being taken seriously.

    I mean, "being beaten by a girl would upset people" is an actual justification by the organizing body? Good fucking lord.

    not sure you read the article

    I read this article:
    "Your information is indeed correct, the tournament is open to Finnish male players only," Markus "Olodyn" Koskivirta, head admin of the Assembly Summer 2014 Hearthstone IeSF Qualifier told the publication. "In accordance with the International e-Sports Federation's (IeSF) tournament regulations, since the main tournament event is open to male players only. This is to avoid possible conflicts (e.g. a female player eliminating a male player during RO8 [round of eight]) among other things."

    What. The fuck.

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    DehumanizedDehumanized Registered User regular
    Uh, that's a "conflict" in the sense that the woman would not be able to play in the main tournament (which is boys only), not "conflict" in the sense that nerds gonna be mad.

    It's still utter and total bullshit that any level of this competitive scene is gender-restricted.

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    cloudeaglecloudeagle Registered User regular
    Oh, is "round of eight" not part of the big tournament thingy?

    Looks like I'm as stupid at e-sport details as I am with actual sport details.

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    ZxerolZxerol for the smaller pieces, my shovel wouldn't do so i took off my boot and used my shoeRegistered User regular
    edited July 2014
    "Round of eight" is a fancy term for quaterfinal. The Assembly tournament is an IeSF qualifier. What they're trying to say is that if a woman qualified, she wouldn't be able to go on to compete in the greater IeSF tournament, hence "conflict."

    The Finnish organizers don't seem to have any ill intent in this business besides having to the tow dumbshit IeSF policies if they want to send players.

    Zxerol on
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    cloudeaglecloudeagle Registered User regular
    edited July 2014
    ...then why don't they just call it a quarterfinal? I mean, they're so desperate to be like other sports, right?

    cloudeagle on
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    reVersereVerse Attack and Dethrone God Registered User regular
    It's because quarterfinals are illegal in Finland.

    One of those funny old laws.

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    cloudeaglecloudeagle Registered User regular
    reVerse wrote: »
    It's because quarterfinals are illegal in Finland.

    One of those funny old laws.

    themoreyouknow.jpg

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    DehumanizedDehumanized Registered User regular
    cloudeagle wrote: »
    ...then why don't they just call it a quarterfinal? I mean, they're so desperate to be like other sports, right?

    Round of X is a common term in international football competitions

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    chrisnlchrisnl Registered User regular
    "The decision to divide male and female competitions was made in accordance with international sports authorities, as part of our effort to promote e-Sports as a legitimate sports."

    Hey good to know that auto racing isn't a legitimate sport. I'm sure there are plenty of other examples as well.

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