The Helicopter Parent, Non-Shutting Door, Giant Wooden Loon, and my poor layout skills.
ANTVGM64
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
So, here's a weird one, but I figured a third party may help me approach this situation in a way that doesn't result in me seeming ungrateful for my bedroom / house that I live in rent free.
So, here's the deal:
I live with my parents, I'm 28 years old, and am generally an easy enough to please person. I don't complain, I don't talk back, I NEVER raise my voice to my family, and I can't help but feel this is being taken advantage of. I never had a rebellious phase, and so on.
The way my bedroom works is that it's connected to our livingroom (which you're in upon entering the house) via two french doors that don't latch. If it's windy, the doors open. If my dad is drunk, he barges in to talk to me, and worse, my sister (and her boyfriend) need to travel through my room to get to theirs, which is upstairs. After 20+ years of this, I've made peace with the fact I'll never ever have true privacy in my house unless everyone is gone.
But the problem is this: In part because I do not complain, whenever I try and do anything in *my* room, my mother balks because she 'likes to open the doors so people can see" into the room, any time I bring up my other complaints, she slaps me with a "You seem ungrateful" and makes me apologize. Example: I'm consistently told to keep my voice down when everyone else is asleep, but me, when I'm trying to sleep in my room, the room that gets the MOST noise from every other room in the house, I get a "Good luck with that" when people are in the living room chatting, instead of a "We'll try to be quiet" or "Want us to move into the kitchen,".
Example: I'm in my room watching porno. My Dad, being my Dad, barges in and immediately takes out the trash while I'm clearly in my room doing something in private, then leaves the door open. I post a quasi-passive aggressive post on Facebook to the tune of "Oh man, do I miss the joys of an actually shutting door!", and within ten minutes get an angry call from my mom demanding I take it down. Was I wrong to post it? Maybe, was I wrong about how INTENSELY FRUSTRATING this all is? I don't think so.
Flash forward to yesterday. My parents are on vacation, The last time my mom came home from vacation and the house was a mess, she whipped my Xbox 360 controller across the room, and told me she almost smashed my iPad in anger. To avoid this I clean the whole house. THE WHOLE house, do laundry, vacuum, unload the dishwasher, everything. I move my Xbox One from the living-room into my bedroom, and arrange everything in a way that is most ergonomic to my gaming / media editing / writing desires.
This results in me moving a cabinet to a different area of the room, and moving a desk I bought closer to my TV. This cabinet had a big, wooden, loon on it, that my mom 'liked to look at' through the doors of my bedroom when she opens them up when we have company. I post the new arrangement on facebook, and the FIRST thing I get was "Can you move the cabinet and loon back? I like to look at it" A Cabinet with a dozen or so books in it was NOT easy to move, and she should know that. If this were anyone BUT my mother, a woman I love and respect and am eternally grateful for, the words "Fuck you, Bitch" could possibly be on the tip of my tongue.
Despite cleaning the entire house, my mother is now cranky the second she gets home and makes passive aggressive comments like "It's like I don't even own this damn house,". and is generally sour the entire weekend. This is not menopause. She already had that. She's even upset I moved my end table from the right side of the bed to the left because I'm left handed.
She messaged me today with a variety of different ways to re-arrange my room, again, so she can see this damn loon. Whether or not these are good ideas, I do not care. I am, frankly, sick and tired my bedroom just being the place I sleep, and not being my own space.
I am also aware that I have absolutely zero leverage here. Every time I attempt to bring up the multitude of ways how fucked up my life is because I don't have an actual bedroom, I'm immediately hit with a "You sound ungrateful" guilt trip, which makes me want to punch a hole through a wall with my forehead. Because I AM grateful, but I can also be UPSET about certain aspects of my life, right? Cause the rest of my family is more than allowed to scream and throw things and get upset on a whim. My dad woke up the ENTIRE family last night because he lost his 40 of beer he was 'certain' he had. No knocking, just hemming and hawing.
So, long story short, do I stand my ground here and let my mom call me ungrateful and REFUSE to let her move anything of mine for the first time in my life? Or do I, yet again, fold, and find my room situated in a way my MOTHER likes, but I hate.
I also understand this is very much a whiny post, but I have no idea what to do, would like to avoid drama, but also have an itch to just scream at the top of my lungs for the first time...ever...about the insane bullshit I put up with every single day of my life, that no one seems to appreciate.
So, here's the deal:
I live with my parents, I'm 28 years old, and am generally an easy enough to please person. I don't complain, I don't talk back, I NEVER raise my voice to my family, and I can't help but feel this is being taken advantage of. I never had a rebellious phase, and so on.
The way my bedroom works is that it's connected to our livingroom (which you're in upon entering the house) via two french doors that don't latch. If it's windy, the doors open. If my dad is drunk, he barges in to talk to me, and worse, my sister (and her boyfriend) need to travel through my room to get to theirs, which is upstairs. After 20+ years of this, I've made peace with the fact I'll never ever have true privacy in my house unless everyone is gone.
But the problem is this: In part because I do not complain, whenever I try and do anything in *my* room, my mother balks because she 'likes to open the doors so people can see" into the room, any time I bring up my other complaints, she slaps me with a "You seem ungrateful" and makes me apologize. Example: I'm consistently told to keep my voice down when everyone else is asleep, but me, when I'm trying to sleep in my room, the room that gets the MOST noise from every other room in the house, I get a "Good luck with that" when people are in the living room chatting, instead of a "We'll try to be quiet" or "Want us to move into the kitchen,".
Example: I'm in my room watching porno. My Dad, being my Dad, barges in and immediately takes out the trash while I'm clearly in my room doing something in private, then leaves the door open. I post a quasi-passive aggressive post on Facebook to the tune of "Oh man, do I miss the joys of an actually shutting door!", and within ten minutes get an angry call from my mom demanding I take it down. Was I wrong to post it? Maybe, was I wrong about how INTENSELY FRUSTRATING this all is? I don't think so.
Flash forward to yesterday. My parents are on vacation, The last time my mom came home from vacation and the house was a mess, she whipped my Xbox 360 controller across the room, and told me she almost smashed my iPad in anger. To avoid this I clean the whole house. THE WHOLE house, do laundry, vacuum, unload the dishwasher, everything. I move my Xbox One from the living-room into my bedroom, and arrange everything in a way that is most ergonomic to my gaming / media editing / writing desires.
This results in me moving a cabinet to a different area of the room, and moving a desk I bought closer to my TV. This cabinet had a big, wooden, loon on it, that my mom 'liked to look at' through the doors of my bedroom when she opens them up when we have company. I post the new arrangement on facebook, and the FIRST thing I get was "Can you move the cabinet and loon back? I like to look at it" A Cabinet with a dozen or so books in it was NOT easy to move, and she should know that. If this were anyone BUT my mother, a woman I love and respect and am eternally grateful for, the words "Fuck you, Bitch" could possibly be on the tip of my tongue.
Despite cleaning the entire house, my mother is now cranky the second she gets home and makes passive aggressive comments like "It's like I don't even own this damn house,". and is generally sour the entire weekend. This is not menopause. She already had that. She's even upset I moved my end table from the right side of the bed to the left because I'm left handed.
She messaged me today with a variety of different ways to re-arrange my room, again, so she can see this damn loon. Whether or not these are good ideas, I do not care. I am, frankly, sick and tired my bedroom just being the place I sleep, and not being my own space.
I am also aware that I have absolutely zero leverage here. Every time I attempt to bring up the multitude of ways how fucked up my life is because I don't have an actual bedroom, I'm immediately hit with a "You sound ungrateful" guilt trip, which makes me want to punch a hole through a wall with my forehead. Because I AM grateful, but I can also be UPSET about certain aspects of my life, right? Cause the rest of my family is more than allowed to scream and throw things and get upset on a whim. My dad woke up the ENTIRE family last night because he lost his 40 of beer he was 'certain' he had. No knocking, just hemming and hawing.
So, long story short, do I stand my ground here and let my mom call me ungrateful and REFUSE to let her move anything of mine for the first time in my life? Or do I, yet again, fold, and find my room situated in a way my MOTHER likes, but I hate.
I also understand this is very much a whiny post, but I have no idea what to do, would like to avoid drama, but also have an itch to just scream at the top of my lungs for the first time...ever...about the insane bullshit I put up with every single day of my life, that no one seems to appreciate.
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Take stuff like this: "Despite cleaning the entire house" sounds like you want some serious brownie points for having cleaned up, but if you're the one who made the house messy while everyone was gone, surely cleaning it up is just the polite thing to do, and even if it wasn't just you making the mess, someone has to clean the house, and just because it was you who did it, this doesn't mean your mother is under some obligation to be thrilled with what you've done with the furniture. Clearly she has some desires about where furniture in her house ends up (desires you don't seem to give much weight to - you're pretty dismissive of her all throughout your post) and since your case isn't much better than "well, I like the furniture this way" you might consider moving out.
You can try to sit down and talk to her and your dad, see if there's any way to come to a nice arrangement.
Otherwise, keep working towards moving out. Good luck.
Ain't nothin' wrong with living with your parents but them's the breaks. They honestly shouldn't have to adjust their lives to accommodate you anymore. And so long as you're living there for free pretty much the opposite.
Maybe... maybe don't do that. You're 28-years-old and living rent-free. The most prominent gripe in your post is that your Mother wants to see a loon where she left it. Whether or not that is unreasonable, it doesn't matter.
That's not okay. It doesn't matter who it is. You were asked to move a heavy bookshelf back to where it was, and your response--were it not your mother--would be "fuck you, bitch"?
Yeah that was a bit of an overreaction but I'd like to re-state that this is *my* bedroom. I find it *really* hard to believe that I should just allow my mom to put everything back to where it was because SHE doesn't like it the way it is now, despite, again, this being my bedroom. I buy a desk, I'm immediately told I should have waited for her to price one. I buy a bed, same thing, I say I wanted a new couch because the old one hurts my back, and I get a sour look and a "that's a perfectly good couch".
She can literally put this loon anywhere else in the house, and the idea that I need to un-re-arrange my entire room, which is finally in a place where I can work and write and do things in it in a way I enjoy and find ergonomic, seems incredibly unfair, her house or not.
For whatever reason I'm not allowed ANY control over any element of my own damn bedroom, and after attempting to rationally explain this all to her today inbetween calls at work I get a "well talk about this later, we need to have a family conference,"
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I've been there... and I've had my own place for YEARS now and I still am recovering from my parental living situation. Like you I had literally no privacy, and when I say literally I mean it. Watch porno? Yeah right, not unless they were gone (which was rare). Own anything like that? Not a chance, my room was subject to total full inspections at random any time I wasn't in the room.
No matter what happens, it's not "your" place, and you will either play by their rules or not.
It's her house.
Be thankful that you have a family to fall back on and work on getting your own place. If you display this same attitude to your mom, then things are just going to get worse.
*This also usually entails paying for your own food, electricity, cable, etc so be careful if you take this route and think "I can afford $X for my room to have my own privacy" because $X is usually just the beginning.
This. Either pay rent or move out.
I still live at home as well because I travel for work a good bit; often at a moments notice. My father and I don't always see eye to eye, but I pay rent. We stay out of each others way for the most part.
I am not sure why people are suggesting that you pay rent in your current space, either. You'd be paying money to live in a common area. You won't somehow be able to keep your sister from getting to her room if you start paying rent.
So you're never going to have the privacy you'd like. Your mom sounds like she's being a pain in the ass about everything, but you wouldn't have the same degree of drama if you had an actual room instead of a hallway with a door in it.
Move out, get your own space, or resign yourself to not having any privacy where you sleep and spending most of your time not in the house you are effectively crashing at.
That said, cleaning the house now and then doesn't really 'earn' you anything, unless you, say, do the majority of the household work (if your house is like the average household, your mom probably does 75% of the household labor, and no one gives her any special kudos for it).
That said, for something like the loon, would it be possible to ask your mother to put it in some other room so you can then adjust the furniture to your liking? I think probably that moving the furniture around is something you won't really be able to negotiate until you get your own place (sorry). Negotiating privacy may not be possible either, since you can't latch your door, but you can try? Trying involves speaking to the person who is violating your privacy, at the moment they are violating it. Speaking to them calmly and politely. "Dad, you know I love you, but can we catch up some other time? I'm in the middle of something." Although if he opens your door at random moments without asking first, that's something you will have to talk to him separate from the event, and then reinforce every time he does it. "Dad/Mom, please knock before entering my room. I feel uncomfortable when you open the door unexpectedly." Dad/Mom: "You sound ungrateful!" You: "I’m so grateful for your support and the opportunity to save up money for my own place, but in the day to day I’m happier when I can have a little space and privacy." Only you know your parents well enough to know whether they would listen to this sort of thing.
Are there any other rooms in the house you can move to, a room with a latch that doesn't serve as a walkway?
But fuck you — no, fuck y'all, that's as blunt as it gets"
- Kendrick Lamar, "The Blacker the Berry"
While I agree that that's the situation he lives in and is unlikely to get away from it without moving out, the idea that you have complete leverage over a person and their space just because you're allowing them to live with you rent free is absurd and abusive.
He should move out because his parents are incapable of recognizing him as a human being with needs.
Move out.
Get a crappy little apartment in a shitty neighbourhood if you have to, just get out of your parents house as soon as you can.
But from what you're saying I don't think you'll be able to find a better solution than moving out. You're an adult, they won't treat you as an adult, and they're willing to leverage the power dynamic of your living arrangement to keep it that way.
That is not going to turn out alright.
Is it your room? Or just a room you sleep in?
Might be worth bringing that up. If it's just a room you sleep in.... Too bad mate. Move out if you want to change it.
If you are working, save up enough to get your own apartment and enjoy your own freedom. If you aren't working, get a job and then do those things. While you are under your parent's roof they have every right to call you ungrateful and such. It isn't your bedroom. You don't have a "right" to privacy. You are a house-guest and are not treating your hosts with the respect they feel they deserve. Rightly or wrongly, that's how it is.
See, I'd personally agree.
But many parents do not. Their house, their rules, don't like it, then GTFO.
My parents were this way. They were not confrontational however, they would just go behind my back and do things when I was out. I had NO say in my room or my place. If I was gone a day? I could come back and have all my stuff moved around, room pained some color they liked, stuff missing, etc.
It was only "my room" in so much as it was where I slept and kept anything they didn't deem unacceptable in the house (regardless of being hidden/out of sight or not).
It sounds like the OP's parents are similar but more "in your face" about it. He can either deal with it, or he can leave.
Me, I dealt with it as long as I could justify it... and that was still entirely too long. I still have this overbearing need to hoard "me time" and removal of that is incredibly frustrating to me. It's been over a decade since I left. Things like that can stick with you a long time if you either talk yourself into staying long past when you should have left, or have no choice but to stay around it.
So, for him... I'd suggest he get his finances in order and find a more acceptable living situation. I assume there isn't another room in that house he could move into, as I'd imagine he would have picked almost anything over that room if he could have.
I missed this the first time through, but I'm not sure this is a fair assessment of the situation. First, he doesn't have "space" of his own, he is borrowing someone else's property. Were he a minor I would agree with you entirely, but at 28 he has long since lost any societal expectation that his parents owe him his own room and board. While the world being as it is makes living at home a necessity for lots of people, without any sort of specific arrangement concerning his living in their house (such as a lease with rent, etc.) he is essentially couch surfing to a greater degree. His parents own the home, pay the mortgage, and furnish the property. They have a reasonable expectation that their property will be maintained and that they will retain use of said property when and where they wish.
There is nothing in the OP that says to me his parents are denying him as a human being with needs, only really the opposite. He is taking advantage of his parent's kindness and pushing back against the limited (and honestly extremely light) conditions for living free within their home. The mother expects her furniture to be in specific places and her house to be neat and clean. That is not a lot of effort or energy for free rent. While the alcoholism suggested in the OP is likely a big deal, it just speaks to the OP's need to find his own place elsewhere.
Having needs as a human being is a well and good thing. As a minor, you are entitled to those needs as a matter of prudence. As an adult you are not entitled to a damn thing unless you work and pay for them like the rest of the world.
Move out. It will solve all of the problems listed here and once you get settled on your feet you will be infinitely happier.
Would you not expect privacy if you lost your job and have to live with a friend?
Obviously if the person wants to decorate the house, it is unreasonable for you to stop them or balk at it. However, you should be able to jack off without someone barging in to your room to take out the garbage. I say this with some caveats, you don't do it in the middle of the day, and maybe you should take out your own trash because you're almost 30 years old.
OP is in a precarious position in that his room isn't necessarily a room but a common area, thus he has no reasonable basis for any privacy whatsoever. That doesn't mean he doesn't deserve it because he's "freeloading" but that it is just not practical. OP should get his financials in order and get out ASAP.
Maybe if OP offers money for room and board (covers that pesky "NOW YOU PAY ERRYTHING MUAHAHAHAHA" nonsense), he can actually get a private space for himself. Maybe a basement converted room or a guest bedroom or some place that's a bit more private.
Most problems in life are solved by communication. Talk with your parents. Explain the situation and your concerns. Have a bit more tact than to bring up porn, but explain the privacy issues. See if they'd be willing to help you and respect it. If not, you have your answer. If so, great, that's one step closer to fixing this. Your parents are likely just as frustrated as you are. The great thing about being an adult means that your parents aren't necessarily parents anymore. They're parents, but they can act like normal people with you now. I can tell you why your parents are frustrated, and it's because they have an adult child living with them, and they can't relax because they want to do things but feel like their parenting is extending past the time they anticipated. And that issue can be resolved by talking with them.
I think if you explain to them you'll help with the house, like taking out the trash, maybe going grocery shopping now and again, and possibly fixing that broken french door, you'll be much better received in your requests to be treated like an adult.
Remember, adulthood isn't a given, it's an earned, just like respect.
No amount of talking to them, bargaining with them, etc. is going to change their mindset about it (I hope I'm wrong), so for the time being, deal with it or move out are his only two real choices.
Unless maybe he wants to try to bribe his sister to change rooms with him.
Especially if it's a circumstance you can't control.
If you've lived at home since you were 0 and you're 28 and haven't moved out yet... then yeah, that's probably the reason they're acting like that.
Still wouldn't hurt to talk to them.
If he had his own room and it were a room designated as a private place that people didn't walk though, maybe that would be different. But honestly, really? Maybe it's a difference in upbringing, but I sort of figured keeping it in your pants when you are a guest in someone's house is just a general given. That's what bathrooms, motels, and going over to the partner that has their own space is for.
I like to figure we all figured out some method that worked.
At age 28 you do not have a “your” room in a rent free situation. You’re squatting.
I can’t lay it out as clearly as I’d like to, but the fact that you’re watching a little porn mid-day while living in your parents’ house at age 28 and get made when Dad barges in rather than embarrassed does not indicate good things.
I’m not certain, but by the sound of it you don’t keep the same sleep schedule as everyone else. Maybe I’m just assuming that the 28 year old squatting in his parents’ house sleeps all day, but if that’s the case, no, you don’t get to ask everyone to keep it down.
You talk about cleaning the house like it was a big deal. You should be cleaning the house all of the time as a matter of practice considering you’re long term couch surfing with the rents. That house should be fucking immaculate.
Since you are squatting, yeah, people get to tell you not to move their stuff. Also, your stuff should be minimally in people’s way.
Don't be passive aggressive on facebook ever. Straight up, do not ever post some shit on facebook bitching about someone in a way that is just going around not saying something to them directly. That's a basic tenet of social media.
And move out.
Without knowing all the details I'm just going off of him being entirely frustrated with a crappy living situation.
He hasn't said why he lives at home (between jobs, never had one, still in school, etc). Which would obviously factor in. I never got along with my parents, and that never got better until I had distance between them and me. First for school, then by moving out. But no matter how much I talked with my parents about things that frustrated me, it never improved while I was there. As far as they were concerned I was an indentured servant so long as I lived there. Any time they wanted me to do something, regardless of any plans I'd made, or how last minute their request was, I was expected to capitulate or else I got the 3rd degree.
Sometimes talking can help, but if his parents just don't have any desire to work with him, then there is little that can be done about it aside from putting up with it or getting out.
Some of you are going by "Well my parents were the same way, there was no way to fight it except moving out." I thought this of my parents as well, until an older brother moved back in with my parents, and my brother had far, far better boundary setting skills than I do. He was able to set his own schedule and have his own private space without my parents intruding. The thing I thought impossible was easy for him. Setting boundaries is difficult if you've never tried it before, and you will be faced with the guilt trip for trying it, but you do not deserve to be treated like a dog just because you're not paying rent.
For those of you in this thread saying he deserves whatever treatment for being "a squatter": it's nice that you're so rich and privileged that you've never had job problems. I would never, ever like to be anywhere near you people, since you apparently think not having a good paying job means I don't deserve human respect.
But fuck you — no, fuck y'all, that's as blunt as it gets"
- Kendrick Lamar, "The Blacker the Berry"
But fuck you — no, fuck y'all, that's as blunt as it gets"
- Kendrick Lamar, "The Blacker the Berry"
That being said, it doesn't sound like that is the case here, and OP you sound pretty entitled for a guy living at home, rent free. If you were a kid, pretty much everyone would tell you to suck it up and listen to your parents, period. The fact that you are now an adult may mean that you have your own set of growing expectations, but to be honest you are projecting them onto your parents, and that's not the way to do it.
If you want to be treated like an adult, you need to act like an adult and do adult things. The first of those is establishing your own income and then paying your own way. If you're paying for it, then nobody can say that it isn't yours to do with as you wish. This is why everyone is being so hard on you, BTW - if this were anyone else but your parents the scenario would be incredibly ridiculous. Having an expectation of privacy does not empower you to just call out swaths of space in the house and say, "This is mine and you can't do anything here except what I want." Especially when you haven't actually paid for anything.
Every person is human and deserves respect. Having a job is not a requirement for getting respect.
There are some expectations that are perfectly reasonable for someone living rent-free with parents. OP is displaying a petulant attitude to perfectly reasonable expectations for the situation.
Being expected to clean up the house, not move furniture, not jerk off in the middle of the afternoon in a public space, and not bitch about your mom on facebook is not a war crime.
Edit: If OP had come in and said, "I live with my parents at 28, I'm having trouble with the fact that I have to live in a public space, and I would like advice on how to talk to my parents about trying to find common ground" he'd have gotten a better response. Contrast with, "OMG my mom is such a bitch when I wreck the house while they're out of town."
Don't get me wrong, I think the best thing he can do for himself is to move out, but the potential for abusive relationship inherent in the "you're an house elf now" attitudes shown here is really fucking disturbing.
It's not about setting boundaries (though that is nice to have if your parents are willing to work with you in this situation). Boundaries don't apply at all when you are down and out and living on someone else's generosity. Lord knows, there were plenty of times where I had to couch surf, with friends and family alike. I've been on the hosting side plenty of times as well, once for nearly a year.
Long and short of it is: if you are living off of someone else's generosity you don't be a dick to that person. You don't make passive aggressive facebook posts. You don't masturbate in public places. You don't get angry at them for using their house as if it is their house (because, guess what? It's their house). You don't gain some sort of automatic renter's rights or privileges just because someone invited you into their house. You don't get an expectation of perfect privacy. You don't get anything but what is being generously offered to you: a place to rest and live with specific rules until you get your own situation sorted.
If you don't like the conditions someone places upon living with them, for free, then leave. You don't have a leg to stand on to argue against it. You are a guest, not a property owner/renter/partner. You don't get to set the boundaries, you live within them. Or you find somewhere else to rent. Any other expectation is unreasonably, and disrespectfully, entitled.
That doesn't mean you put up with abuse. That doesn't mean you let someone treat you "like a dog." That certainly doesn't mean you put up with any degree of emotional or physical abuse. But being asked by the person you live with to leave their furniture where you found it, clean up every now and then, and to follow the host's sleeping schedule (including being quiet when their down time is and not minding when their uptime is) is totally expected and not at all extreme or abusive.
OP does appear to work a night job, or did, a few months back. There's a very good chance OP doesn't make enough to live on his own. I'm with @cambiata . It's still unnecessary to paint OP as a jerk. He's frustrated his living situation sucks, no reason to jump on him. Not all of us make the best decisions or word arguments the best when we're frustrated and angry.
Filed under: conversations that never happened because people can't really be this dumb.
Check this out, the first part of your conversation is TOTALLY a discussion of boundaries, bro:
"I need a place to stay for a few days."
"Sure! I got a spare couch. Keep your stuff tidy and you can bunk with me until you are good to go."
And for a more reasonable example of where the visitor might need to discuss boundaries, how about:
"Hey I really appreciate you letting me stay here with you for a few days, but I'm really not comfortable with you using my toothbrush. Hey, I'll even buy you a toothbrush if you need one, OK? But I can't share the one I use."
IE: Visitors have rights too?
But fuck you — no, fuck y'all, that's as blunt as it gets"
- Kendrick Lamar, "The Blacker the Berry"