And I'm really confused as to what exactly is bullshit, since the article's only three sources are public statements from the two creators and Netflix.
The fact that the article is not in anyway really based on the public statements would be the heart of it. The fandomwire article cites several very specific reasons for why the separation happened which is in no way supported by the public statements. All we know is that Netflix wanted more control over the creative direction than the original creators were comfortable with. That is literally all that is publically stated. Everything else is based on anonymous sources so it comes down to whether or not you trust fandomwire specifically to not make something up to get extra clicks.
And I'm really confused as to what exactly is bullshit, since the article's only three sources are public statements from the two creators and Netflix.
The fact that the article is not in anyway really based on the public statements would be the heart of it. The fandomwire article cites several very specific reasons for why the separation happened which is in no way supported by the public statements. All we know is that Netflix wanted more control over the creative direction than the original creators were comfortable with. That is literally all that is publically stated. Everything else is based on anonymous sources so it comes down to whether or not you trust fandomwire specifically to not make something up to get extra clicks.
Started rewatching Korra now that it's on Netflix, and I'm liking it even more the second time through. Actually starting to think it's the better of the two shows, even though I know that's sacrilege among the fanbase. Feels catered to an older audience, the animation is mostly a lot better, I love the setting, and I think the themes are more ambitious--and more feminist.
And god, what a coup to get J.K. Simmons as Tenzin. But the whole cast is fantastic.
I would put the first season handily on the same level as the later seasons of the first series. We get a taste of this new world, some great shots and action scenes, some great "unintended consequences" bits, and the end of the season is both great (in Korra finally getting past herself to become a fully-realized Avatar) and rough (in the brother killing himself and his rogue crazy brother for the good of everyone).
It's basically everything after that I can't stand with the show becoming an endless loop of breaking up the team, largely crapping on everything the prior Team Avatar did, Korra failing at everything and getting repeatedly handed her ass in combat, and victory, at least once literally, falling out of the sky every time.
There's a lot of great pieces after season one, but terrible, terrible execution.
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FencingsaxIt is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understandingGNU Terry PratchettRegistered Userregular
The idea that defeating the big bad doesn't solve everything and if you don't actually address problems they fester and metastasize is a pretty good one.
Korra started out bad. Got really bad. And then managed to crawl back to pretty good in the last two seasons.
While racing light mechs, your Urbanmech comes in second place, but only because it ran out of ammo.
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StragintDo Not GiftAlways DeclinesRegistered Userregular
I've always really liked the idea of the first season of Korra being 1 off because as far as I remember that was the plan and it makes season 1 a lot better.
Having to spend episodes in season 2 to flesh out characters that weren't really meant to be fleshed out really messed up that season for me.
PSN: Reaper_Stragint, Steam: DoublePitstoChesty
What is the point of being alive if you don't at least try to do something remarkable? ~ Mario Novak
I never fear death or dyin', I only fear never trying.
I never liked that all of Korra's villains were the same "visionary ubermensch" archetype. Azula was a vastly different villain from Zuko, and that contrast elevated the TLA's back half. Given how each season of Korra was pretty self-contained, I wish they'd taken the opportunity to do unique antagonists.
Like, one of the fundamental problems with Fantastic Beasts (other than Rowling being a terrible person and a terrible scriptwriter) is that Grindelwald is the exact same kind of villain as Voldemort and Newt the same kind of hero as Harry. Here, they succeeded in making Korra distinct, but they could've gone further.
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Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
It's a really great, and generally unseen, variety of story... that the first season handled quite well. And then they made the whole series about it, stuck to the pattern of "scatter the crew and beat up Korra", and threw the old Team Avatar under the bus to boot, which is some top-grade shitty writing because you can't be bothered to come up with something new.
There was just a whole mountain of problems following S1, from bad guys that instantly become elemental masters at the drop of a hat to wild, inexplicable changes in characters that literally happen off-screen and are never adequately explained. Like I said, they had some excellent pieces of story to work with, they just bungled the execution terribly. Even with fewer episodes per season, they'd barely hit the halfway mark for S2 and S3 before my interest started plummeting and finishing the season became a real struggle for me.
I never liked that all of Korra's villains were the same "visionary ubermensch" archetype. Azula was a vastly different villain from Zuko, and that contrast elevated the TLA's back half. Given how each season of Korra was pretty self-contained, I wish they'd taken the opportunity to do unique antagonists.
Like, one of the fundamental problems with Fantastic Beasts (other than Rowling being a terrible person and a terrible scriptwriter) is that Grindelwald is the exact same kind of villain as Voldemort and Newt the same kind of hero as Harry. Here, they succeeded in making Korra distinct, but they could've gone further.
The villains are all post-industrial ideologies taken to extremes more than characters.
Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
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ShadowenSnores in the morningLoserdomRegistered Userregular
The primary flaw with Korra to me was that they were in part trying to make a more mature and complex take on politics than the classic "heroic archetype vs. dark lord" of AtLA (and even AtLA was more complex than that but never mind), but didn't have the time or space to really elaborate on what they were trying to say. (spoilers for the whole series, just in case)
Season 1 raised some real issues with Republic City, but the bad guys are somehow the ones bringing it up? Oh, it's not most of them, it's just the people in charge manipulating them. That's much better. Anyway, there are problems, how do they get rectified? Doesn't matter, they're fixed. Suddenly a non-bender is president and we have no insight into sudden apparent total restructuring of the Republic. Turns out later that he's a glad-handing career politician type more interested in polls and press than policy, and it's very interesting that such a person exists in a city where there were apparently no opportunities for non-benders to get into the power structure less than a year ago.
Season 2 has a civil war between the Northern and Southern Water Tribes that just ends with a fart. How is it resolved? The aggressor Unaloq dies and his children, who were complicit in omnicide until almost literally the last moment, are on the throne in the North next season. The only person who ends up in prison is the guy egging it on so he can sell weapons, and he still bribes his way into having a luxuriously-appointed cell because he's part of the prison-industrial complex. This guy is later one of our heroes, because he literally discovers his conscience.
Season 3 and 4 are better in part because they do address some of the aftermath. Season 3 completely misrepresents anarchism, but the political implications of the season's events (the Earth Kingdom being torn down) actually results in Season 4 having two competing factions try to build it back up, one a monarchist and the other a reformist tyrant. The monarchist comes to understand he's not fit to rule and is content to be a figurehead while some sort of elected body takes over all the actual power and the tyrant somehow proves to have intellectual integrity; she believed that as the strongest she should rule, someone kicks her ass, and she surrenders.
Season 4 also features the political statement of the series, which seems to be "centrism is the way, and the truth, and the light", or at least "all extremism is bad", which is real disappointing after the somewhat more radical "hold to your principles and fight for them as long as it feels right" attitude of AtLA.
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Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
edited August 2020
Which is something the showmakers did acknowledge, at least, because Nickelodeon pushed them to make episodes in a shorter time frame plus gave them fewer episodes each season. So they were trying to tell more stories with less time with each story, ultimately resulting in almost all of the stories falling short. Pretty sure they also didn't know how many seasons they were even getting from the start, so they obviously couldn't count on multiple seasons for a big story.
Without Nickelodeon screwing around with the show, they could've kept the various villains and developed them over multiple seasons instead of getting to know each of them just long enough for their REAL motivation and REAL history to come up before deus ex machina showed up to save the day and kill/defeat them.
Ninja Snarl P on
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Inquisitor772 x Penny Arcade Fight Club ChampionA fixed point in space and timeRegistered Userregular
Yeah Korra tried to thread that needle of bringing up adult political and societal issues in what is ostensibly a children's show, and needing to solve it within that framework.
You see this all the time in comic books and video games, too. Larger issues end up being simplified and consolidated into the Big Bad who needs to be defeated.
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BethrynUnhappiness is MandatoryRegistered Userregular
I think Season 2 is the only really weak one of Korra. And I generally like Razbuten's take on how to fix it, which also acknowledges that a lot of what went on with Korra was the result of Nick & others messing the writers around a fair bit:
Oh, I fully agree that Korra was uneven and flawed, especially the first couple of seasons. Moreso than ATLA. But ATLA had it easier, because it was telling a relatively simple story, where the Big Bad is mostly an unseen, looming, Sauron-like monster, aside from some implied characterization in Zuko's and Azula's backstory. Korra, by contrast, I think is at least trying to present a more complicated and ambiguous view of the world, and even when it falls short, I appreciate the ambition to tell that kind of story in an animated series partially targeted at children.
Then more than anything, I love how rich the cast is with varied, interesting female characters of all different ages and backgrounds. It seems at the beginning like Korra's supporting cast is mostly going to be dudes, with Tenzin, Mako, and Bolin playing prominent roles. But the longer the show goes on the more women step into the fore, both protagonists and antagonists. By the end of the series they're playing pivotal roles in most of what's going on, with loads of agency and often well-informed backstories. Especially at the time it came out, it was rare to see a genre TV series of any kind which made the men take a backseat in the story, let alone an American animated series. And that, for me, was pretty special.
My zombie survival life simulator They Don't Sleep is out now on Steam if you want to check it out.
I've always contended that Airbender was the better series overall but the last two seasons of Korra are the best out of all of them. Excellent villains, beautiful fights, and a stealth retelling of China's early modern history.
Okay, I guess we’re going from crushing disappointment to all the hype again? Now Nick has established an entire studio devoted to making Avatar/Korea stuff. And heading the studio are — creators Michael DiMartino and Bryan Konietzko. Their first project? An animated theatrical film. Yes, theaters! Assuming any still exist when it’s done.
Okay, I guess we’re going from crushing disappointment to all the hype again? Now Nick has established an entire studio devoted to making Avatar/Korea stuff. And heading the studio are — creators Michael DiMartino and Bryan Konietzko. Their first project? An animated theatrical film. Yes, theaters! Assuming any still exist when it’s done.
I just... I’m too exhausted from the good news/bad news cycle to get my hopes up. Just poke me when the movie’s out.
This sounds way more promising than any other project that's been announced so far..original creators at the helm, a whole studio devoted to expanding the universe, sticking with the animated format..if this falls apart idk what I'll do.
Is this just Aang/Korra stuff, or might we see a new avatar?
I figure Earth Kingdom Avatar would be in a full modern day world with computers, internet, conspiracy theories that bending isn't real, etc, and I kinda want to see it.
Is this just Aang/Korra stuff, or might we see a new avatar?
I figure Earth Kingdom Avatar would be in a full modern day world with computers, internet, conspiracy theories that bending isn't real, etc, and I kinda want to see it.
The film is about Aang and company but they could presumably, finally, make movies/shows about whatever they like. I really hope this works out for them.
[sits dramatically under an overhead light, high contrast]
Future Avatar. Space Opera. With Mecha.
The original concept was close to this! The early idea was Aang in stasis for so long he wakes up in a techno future similar to Samurai Jack. I doubt they've let the idea go and have almost definitely kicked around ideas about what modern day/future Avatars would be like.
Reintroducing the setting and how much it had changed while also introducing a brand new set of characters and then resolving a plot in a single movie might be a stretch. Welcome to Republic City basically did the first two things only with its hour.
Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
Basically Voltron, but able to amplify bending through the mech. So it's stamping and hurling mountains at enemies, etc.
Dark spirit kaiju monsters vs. elemental bending giant mecha robots. Kuvira's ultimate weapon mecha from the season finale of Legend of Korra book 4 basically paves the way for it. Cue the Pacific Rim theme.
Is this just Aang/Korra stuff, or might we see a new avatar?
I figure Earth Kingdom Avatar would be in a full modern day world with computers, internet, conspiracy theories that bending isn't real, etc, and I kinda want to see it.
Which I'd imagine would give the creators free reign to explore themes of censorship, invasion of privacy, nationalism (we got some of that with Kuvira), and the spread of disinformation and propaganda, stuff that's super relevant to today's modern age.
It's still Nickelodeon, though. If we can get acknowledged relationship status I feel like we'll be lucky.
The creators were very vocal about them being together very shortly after the episode aired. They mentioned having been building it for years in increasingly obvious ways which is very true. The official comic series also has their adventures as a couple. On TV screen kiss/affection is the only thing they haven't done to show them as a couple at this point
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Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
It all depends on how much Nickelodeon thinks that will fly with the Chinese market.
And I'm guessing it won't, so I would further guess "no, definitely not".
Nickelodeon uses Korra for it's Pride stuff though.
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Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
And how much of that do they try to send to China?
Nickelodeon is a standard big media company, it doesn't give a shit about human rights and just wants to make money. It "cares" as long as that will make them more money, and instantly stops pretending once the money is threatened.
It's still Nickelodeon, though. If we can get acknowledged relationship status I feel like we'll be lucky.
The creators were very vocal about them being together very shortly after the episode aired. They mentioned having been building it for years in increasingly obvious ways which is very true. The official comic series also has their adventures as a couple. On TV screen kiss/affection is the only thing they haven't done to show them as a couple at this point
Also, that was years ago and support for LGBT representation has only increased.
I mean, nowendays you get universal critical acclaim for same-sex relationships in She-Ra, and they finally made Adventure Time's Princess Bubblegum/Marceline the Vampire Queen explicit text. I'm not sure this is a fight that even China can win at this point.
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Inquisitor772 x Penny Arcade Fight Club ChampionA fixed point in space and timeRegistered Userregular
I mean, nowendays you get universal critical acclaim for same-sex relationships in She-Ra, and they finally made Adventure Time's Princess Bubblegum/Marceline the Vampire Queen explicit text. I'm not sure this is a fight that even China can win at this point.
I mean, nowendays you get universal critical acclaim for same-sex relationships in She-Ra, and they finally made Adventure Time's Princess Bubblegum/Marceline the Vampire Queen explicit text. I'm not sure this is a fight that even China can win at this point.
Never underestimate the power of greed.
That's my point, actually. It's getting to the point where it makes more economic sense to provide inclusive material.
I mean, nowendays you get universal critical acclaim for same-sex relationships in She-Ra, and they finally made Adventure Time's Princess Bubblegum/Marceline the Vampire Queen explicit text. I'm not sure this is a fight that even China can win at this point.
Never underestimate the power of greed.
That's my point, actually. It's getting to the point where it makes more economic sense to provide inclusive material.
China is friggin huge is the thing. Like really friggin huge.
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Inquisitor772 x Penny Arcade Fight Club ChampionA fixed point in space and timeRegistered Userregular
Counterpoint: The existence of the kiss in the latest Star Wars film.
Posts
This is why I like to be specific in stuff. Yeah, not that article is being referenced. This is the garbage article people are saying is filled with made up nonsense to drive clicks
Ah. Might have helped if this wasn't the first time the article was specifically identified.
I would put the first season handily on the same level as the later seasons of the first series. We get a taste of this new world, some great shots and action scenes, some great "unintended consequences" bits, and the end of the season is both great (in Korra finally getting past herself to become a fully-realized Avatar) and rough (in the brother killing himself and his rogue crazy brother for the good of everyone).
It's basically everything after that I can't stand with the show becoming an endless loop of breaking up the team, largely crapping on everything the prior Team Avatar did, Korra failing at everything and getting repeatedly handed her ass in combat, and victory, at least once literally, falling out of the sky every time.
There's a lot of great pieces after season one, but terrible, terrible execution.
Having to spend episodes in season 2 to flesh out characters that weren't really meant to be fleshed out really messed up that season for me.
What is the point of being alive if you don't at least try to do something remarkable? ~ Mario Novak
I never fear death or dyin', I only fear never trying.
Like, one of the fundamental problems with Fantastic Beasts (other than Rowling being a terrible person and a terrible scriptwriter) is that Grindelwald is the exact same kind of villain as Voldemort and Newt the same kind of hero as Harry. Here, they succeeded in making Korra distinct, but they could've gone further.
There was just a whole mountain of problems following S1, from bad guys that instantly become elemental masters at the drop of a hat to wild, inexplicable changes in characters that literally happen off-screen and are never adequately explained. Like I said, they had some excellent pieces of story to work with, they just bungled the execution terribly. Even with fewer episodes per season, they'd barely hit the halfway mark for S2 and S3 before my interest started plummeting and finishing the season became a real struggle for me.
The villains are all post-industrial ideologies taken to extremes more than characters.
Season 2 has a civil war between the Northern and Southern Water Tribes that just ends with a fart. How is it resolved? The aggressor Unaloq dies and his children, who were complicit in omnicide until almost literally the last moment, are on the throne in the North next season. The only person who ends up in prison is the guy egging it on so he can sell weapons, and he still bribes his way into having a luxuriously-appointed cell because he's part of the prison-industrial complex. This guy is later one of our heroes, because he literally discovers his conscience.
Season 3 and 4 are better in part because they do address some of the aftermath. Season 3 completely misrepresents anarchism, but the political implications of the season's events (the Earth Kingdom being torn down) actually results in Season 4 having two competing factions try to build it back up, one a monarchist and the other a reformist tyrant. The monarchist comes to understand he's not fit to rule and is content to be a figurehead while some sort of elected body takes over all the actual power and the tyrant somehow proves to have intellectual integrity; she believed that as the strongest she should rule, someone kicks her ass, and she surrenders.
Season 4 also features the political statement of the series, which seems to be "centrism is the way, and the truth, and the light", or at least "all extremism is bad", which is real disappointing after the somewhat more radical "hold to your principles and fight for them as long as it feels right" attitude of AtLA.
Without Nickelodeon screwing around with the show, they could've kept the various villains and developed them over multiple seasons instead of getting to know each of them just long enough for their REAL motivation and REAL history to come up before deus ex machina showed up to save the day and kill/defeat them.
You see this all the time in comic books and video games, too. Larger issues end up being simplified and consolidated into the Big Bad who needs to be defeated.
Then more than anything, I love how rich the cast is with varied, interesting female characters of all different ages and backgrounds. It seems at the beginning like Korra's supporting cast is mostly going to be dudes, with Tenzin, Mako, and Bolin playing prominent roles. But the longer the show goes on the more women step into the fore, both protagonists and antagonists. By the end of the series they're playing pivotal roles in most of what's going on, with loads of agency and often well-informed backstories. Especially at the time it came out, it was rare to see a genre TV series of any kind which made the men take a backseat in the story, let alone an American animated series. And that, for me, was pretty special.
https://ew.com/tv/nickelodeon-expanding-avatar-the-last-airbender-animated-film/?linkId=112073565&fbclid=IwAR2yt_hmD0fqAhBxlBAOm7z5TRpCBO_2S8wqJ_kgQCdVVc6fk654cg95L4w
I just... I’m too exhausted from the good news/bad news cycle to get my hopes up. Just poke me when the movie’s out.
This sounds way more promising than any other project that's been announced so far..original creators at the helm, a whole studio devoted to expanding the universe, sticking with the animated format..if this falls apart idk what I'll do.
I figure Earth Kingdom Avatar would be in a full modern day world with computers, internet, conspiracy theories that bending isn't real, etc, and I kinda want to see it.
[sits dramatically under an overhead light, high contrast]
Future Avatar. Space Opera. With Mecha.
The film is about Aang and company but they could presumably, finally, make movies/shows about whatever they like. I really hope this works out for them.
The original concept was close to this! The early idea was Aang in stasis for so long he wakes up in a techno future similar to Samurai Jack. I doubt they've let the idea go and have almost definitely kicked around ideas about what modern day/future Avatars would be like.
Dark spirit kaiju monsters vs. elemental bending giant mecha robots. Kuvira's ultimate weapon mecha from the season finale of Legend of Korra book 4 basically paves the way for it. Cue the Pacific Rim theme.
Which I'd imagine would give the creators free reign to explore themes of censorship, invasion of privacy, nationalism (we got some of that with Kuvira), and the spread of disinformation and propaganda, stuff that's super relevant to today's modern age.
It's still Nickelodeon, though. If we can get acknowledged relationship status I feel like we'll be lucky.
The creators were very vocal about them being together very shortly after the episode aired. They mentioned having been building it for years in increasingly obvious ways which is very true. The official comic series also has their adventures as a couple. On TV screen kiss/affection is the only thing they haven't done to show them as a couple at this point
And I'm guessing it won't, so I would further guess "no, definitely not".
Nickelodeon is a standard big media company, it doesn't give a shit about human rights and just wants to make money. It "cares" as long as that will make them more money, and instantly stops pretending once the money is threatened.
Also, that was years ago and support for LGBT representation has only increased.
Never underestimate the power of greed.
That's my point, actually. It's getting to the point where it makes more economic sense to provide inclusive material.
China is friggin huge is the thing. Like really friggin huge.