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Malaysian Airlines flight MH17 shot down in Ukraine
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Having gone to that thread, I have literally zero interest in discussing anything there.
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Which is exactly why handing out state of the art weaponry to a bunch of poorly-trained yahoos is a terrible idea. See also: the Iraqi army.
"Now, people are looting, we've got a doctor on the phone, let's ask him if they should be doing that. Also, doctor, if they didn't die instantly, how badly would it have hurt?"
Hey, why not report on developments about possible culprits. There was an offhand remark about it maybe being from a Buk launcher, then back to "How much information can we really learn from the flight recorder?"
It starts with a photo of the plane before he boards with the caption.
If it disappears, this is what it looks like.
(Clearly referring to the previous lost plane).
It starts with have fun and through the course of the posts people realise he was on the plane with his wife. It ends with condolences.
I got chills reading that.
It may be passengers with questionable passports.
Talked to my cousin and dad about this tonight on Skype, they are both military and my cousin is in the Air Force and a pilot. Apparently all modern surface to air radar systems have a "squawk" system that will identify basically what the target is. Not so much "it's a 777", but at the very least "it's not a military target".
The problem is it's very unlikely these rebels ever received the proper training to even know what they were hearing or seeing, or even trained on the fact that military transports don't cruise at 33,000 feet. They saw a plane in airspace they had "claimed" and they fired an SA-11 at it.
Also, the Americans may have requested time to contact families, because if I were in that situation, like fuck would I want to learn from fucking CNN.
It's possible they would have just assumed it was a trick to begin with.
Who, asides from the russian military, have weaponry capable of hitting a B-777 in mid-flight like that?
At least we know where the fucking plane is this time.
In the supposed recording where the separatist is talking with his KGB handler one of them talks about them parachuting spies..... so its not out of the realm of imagination.
I find it hard to believe they would shoot at an aircraft flying that high and at one of that size. I mean the one they shot down the day before was a prop plane. I dont even believe that ukraine has heavy lift cargo plane that approaches the size of A 777. Ukraine does have some large planes like that, that were once military cargo planes but now they are all civilian airlines
could it have possibly been Ukraine thinking it was a Russian incursion? the most doubtful scenario but still possible
They're finished. I don't see how they can recover from this, honestly.
I may be ignorant of how finances work, but how does this latest tragedy reflect badly on the Airline?
Well, people may be (irrationally) scared of using the airliner now. I wouldn't go as far as Bubby, but I'd say odds are good that this will have a negative impact on customer interest and/or investor confidence.
Investor/consumer confidence must be incredibly damaged at this point.
Shitty Tumblr:lighthouse1138.tumblr.com
Military action of any kind will result in more civilian lives lost. Why can't we just all get along?
There is a large gap in the diplomatic outcome though. If Ukraine fucked up, then the rebels are terrorists but Putin can maintain a bit of plausible deniability.
If the Ukraine can prove they still have all their BUKs than it has to have come from Russia or another Russian Federal state, which looks real, real bad on Putin.
Edit: I understand you meant it's not going to bring those people back, just that if it's Russian it's going to make a fucked up situation worse. In that case, economic sanctions are a best case scenario.
To a point, maybe.
But I think at this point in the conflict, nobody on either side is going to be swayed regardless of that piece of evidence. Someone supporting Russia is going to keep believing Russia had nothing to do with it, and the rest of the world knows that - even if Putin didn't order the hit himself (which is probably the case, because...come on) his actions set the stage for exactly something like this to happen.
On another note...I heard the rebels had recovered the black boxes...and are sending them to Moscow for the 'formal investigation'.
The only silver lining in this, I guess, is that the black boxes probably won't reveal anything especially relevant to the investigation. Pretty much 'flying at this altitude, everything normal...then 'oh shit, oh fuck, what happened'.
I will say this is a case where I wouldn't be particularly opposed to the Ukrainian air force suddenly having a squadron of F16's outfitted in the SEAD role. I would be surprised if the rebels keep operating SAM systems (beyond maybe MANPADS), but if they do I hope they are targeted with extreme prejudice.
I think it does make a difference really. Not to the dead of course, but if the linkage to Russia is stronger then I fail to see how that would be irrelevant
After the separatists, the Ukrainian military would be the next most likely to make a tragic error. They've made the same error in the past, when they shot down a Russian airliner in the month after September 11, 2001, with Siberia Airlines Flight 1812 which had the unfortunate consequence of meaning no one outside of Russia (and maybe Israel, where the passengers were going) gave two shits.
But since then, Ukrainian military operations have become much more professional (well, up to the civil war anyway).
The Russian Armed Forces is least likely to make this error of the three, since they not only developed the equipment and technology, they're responsible for training all the parties who operate the technology on all sides. But then again, if the Vincennes, an honest-to-God AEGIS cruiser, can confuse an Airbus jetliner for a F-14, stupid, careless mistakes are possible.
Someone else can speculate on if it was a deliberate act, rather than an error.
Almost certainly not. The investigation of Iran Air 655, an Airbus A300, never suggested that being the case.
But the 777 could be fundamentally different.
I am also pretty sure that the in-dash technology has changed not only as a consequence of the massive amount of time from Iran Air 655 (over a quarter century), but also as a result of the incident itself.
I would hope that upgrading the radars and the level of information captured in the black boxes of today is a given.
Let's play Mario Kart or something...
I would not mind being proven wrong here.
Which is a shame, really.
Not that there is anything they could do to avoid it, but giving them that 10-15 seconds to issue a communication to their agency before impact, and writing the tracking info of the inbound object to the black box could really help investigations, and I feel that would be a worthy addition to the instruments on a jet.
Let's play Mario Kart or something...
as with all things, I would imagine the benefits aren't worth the costs of upgrading and installing such hardware into your fleet.