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[Board Games] THREAD IS DEAD. POST IN THE NEW ONE!
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man i want it bad. but i have the war remastered coming from kickstarter already, and thats already going to be way more of this game than i will ever play im sure. must... stay... strong...
Really, I'm only posting to link back to my living campaign rules early in this thread, so that I can quick reference them later when the inevitable questions come.
i just dont understand this attitude. i mean, there are shit tons of promos out there for games, not to mention expansions... as long as whats in the box you get doesn't feel incomplete who cares?
In Resistance: Avalon's case, they made two major mechanical characters promos. Majorly mechanical enough that they are major parts of this new Resistance expansion. That is a big deal in a game like Avalon which can see a lot of play.
And for Flashpoint, the tokens can do a lot to help replayability of the game, because they add a bunch of variables into the setup phase.
These aren't things like Steam Park that has 2 cards as promos, or Robinson Crusoe which has a couple animals you might be able to encounter--but even with Steam Park, or Quantum, or Robinson Crusoe, you can get those promos through the BGG store.
Every time I open up my box of Flashpoint to play it, I wish I had the locked doors and different victims, because it would make the game that much fresher. When I play Avalon, I wish I could throw in Excalibur or Lancelot with an experienced group. But I can't.
That is why it matters--because in both cases that we're talking about, its exclusives that leave noticeable things missing.
I do have a square punch for making square tiles for various games. I've made some foam Flame tiles for hotspots in Flash Point (better than those tiny little discs) with it. It was on sale for something like 5 bucks, and I've used it a lot to pimp out some of my board games.
Nah, I want a 3D printer sooo badly for pretty much the same reason. K2 is actually one of my biggest reasons. I want minis for the climbers, but can't find any "mountain climber" minis already out there in the wild.
Hm. Maybe for Flashpoint I'll make little thermometer-shaped tokens to replace the hotspots, since they're actually supposed to represent the overall heat of the house.
They're only noticeable if you know they're options in the first place — and you think that having access to those options matters. Otherwise the games are fine the way they are, out of the box.
There's a difference between making a game better and making it complete.
I disagree. If the promos make the game better, then the game isn't complete without them. Because they blatantly should have been included in the damn box. If the promos, being put out right alongside the game itself, make the game better, then the designer/publisher performed an epic dick move by removing them from the core package. They were designed as part of Extreme Danger, and then removed to make them special. Same with Avalon, they were designed with Avalon, and then separated.
They made the game incomplete. This isn't like getting a promo at a convention 2 years down the line, or with another, related game. These were extras that were designed right alongside the core product.
I'll grant you that there are occasional exceptions and I don't pretend to have a comprehensive knowledge of all things KS, but for the most part no promo is required to play a game.
Well, unless something in the base game was fundamentally broken and the expansion/promo "patches" it. But that's a completely different argument.
Hmmm...I haven't played this game, but this seems...overly broad. 'Completeness' is a really interesting concept to me for games, because it seems like only certain games where 'completeness' can even be achieved at all. Games where the tightness and elegance of the ruleset is a big selling point, and where adding or changing things would demonstrably make it worse. I have no idea if flashpoint is one of those games.
This is the part that really makes your case though. Don't bury the lead dude!
They may be playable, but its terrible for the hobby. If I introduce people to a copy of my game, and they want to buy it, I have to tell them that they can't get everything I have. I've seen plenty of people not buy a game because of that very fact.
While I understand this view point, I very much agree with Vyolynce's last point: There are a fairly small subset of games where this 'lack of a thing' is game-breaking. Since it somewhat got us here to begin with, the Excalibur and Lancelot promos were NEVER something I felt I NEEDED to play or enjoy Avalon. It adds a twist to something familiar, but if someone refused to buy the game because they couldn't get them, I'd give them something of a funny look before shrugging and chalking it up to "their loss."
Perhaps I can interest you in my meager selection of pins?
My group here in Japan liked base resistance, and I told them about all the CRAZY new stuff Avalon added, and told them about all the things in my friends copy.
So I picked up Avalon, and realized it came with only half of the crazy new stuff I had told my group about. So my group asked where the other crazy new stuff was? And I told them it was impossible for me to ever get it. And then we all felt rather sour about the game.
Eventually we ended up drifting back to the old Resistance anyway, I think I like it more.
I am interested, though, in the new modules on the new Resistance expansion.
I dare say it's kinda overrated, although it's a very solid gateway game.
I'd have to agree. Great, great gateway game for anyone who likes conflict oriented games. Colorful, fast, simple, crazy race combinations, some dice rolling but not purely dice based, etc. But once you have seen most of the different race/power combinations you realize there is not a whole ton of meat on those bones.
And that's when you drag out your Chaos in the Old World box with a big evil grin on your face.
Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
the chaos cards are, arguably, the most important/powerful part of your game, and each card is limited in number, but they're totally randomized and i think the randomness adds absolutely nothing to the game (as opposed to the dice combat, which totally works)
Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
i also think all board games should be played with a timer by default
we have a really bad analysis paralysis guy at our table and i swear to god i'm going to implement a blanket timer rule
I disagree, bluffing you have certain cards, and people guessing or not if you have certain cards, especially at the start of the game is huge. It also means you get to try different strategies during different games and have to adjust your plans on the fly.
With drafting I know that Tzeentch is starting every single game with a teleport card in your hand and you bet your ass I am doing to do every possible thing at the start of every single game to not play a piece to the table for as long as possible as a result.
delaying piece placement is what people always do anyways, because it's pretty likely that Tzeentch has a teleport or Khorne will put a bloodletter on your first deployment, and drafting has the exact same kind of bluffing when hands are concealed
the real objection is the time it takes to draft cards, which is fair; it would stretch out the draw phase a long time. but the variety of cards isn't that tremendous for each god.
I understand where you're coming from but Avalon is a poor example. The only things not in a retail copy as far as I am aware are Excalibur and Lancelot. You still get Merlin, Morgana, Percival, The Assassin, Oberon, Mordred, and Lady of the Lake. That's hardly half the crazy new stuff. And once you know the rules for Excalibur and Lancelot you can use them and all you need is some random token to represent Excalibur and 5 playing cards. If I'm remembering correctly there is one portrait on either side that is pretty much identical. Designate those 2 as Lancelot. Now take 7 playing cards, 2 red and 5 black. Shuffle these up and take 5 randomly. At the start of the 3rd, 4th and 5th rounds you draw a card. Red means the two Lancelots flip sides, black they stay where they are.
Randomness and unknowns are an interesting topic in board games. To begin with, I'm convinced that any game with 3+ players and meaningful player interaction has 'luck'. But, talking about your particular issue, I like a certain amount of unpredictability - card draw and/or dice mechanics. But if a game has luck-based mechanics it has to either carefully control the influence of that luck or allow players to massage their luck somehow.
Chaos in the Old World is a good example of the sweet spot for me. Each card is limited, but there are enough multiples and enough draws in a full game that the effect is diminished. The game might have benefited from an upgrade or two that let you search your deck or draw/discard - basically stuff that lets you play like Blue in Magic. Overall, CitOW's card-based luck works: it creates some strategic uncertainty, and it fits the theme well. YMMV.
Kemet (sorry guys, Kemet's on the brain) is an even better example. The only luck in Kemet is drawing from the DI deck. Even the battle system has no dice - think GoT's card-based battle system. I wouldn't remove that luck: without DI cards battles are largey predictable. However, if card draw luck still annoys you there are ways around that. You can take any of the 3 upgrades that give you more or better cards per turn. Or you can take the upgrade that cashes in your bad cards for more hitting power in combat.
hAmmONd IsnT A mAin TAnk
If you could draft your cards in CitOW I am pretty sure within like two or three plays everyone would know the optimal open drafts for all the gods, and what starting plays would be optimal from that, and man that just sounds really dull. What hand of cards you start the game with is the main thing that informs how you spend your first turn of CitOW, and moments where you get to yell "Wait you really started with TWO COPIES of that card in your deck? FUCK YOU!" are some of the fun moments of the game.
If I am going to get annoyed at randomness in CitOW it is going to be from the dang old world deck that can completely hose some gods pretty much out of the blue.
Do it anyway....complete your journey to the dark side....
I'm not one to talk you out of it, as I couldn't keep myself from backing the whole thing from the kickstarter. That's gonna be a big fucking box come December.
the problem is that your power draws can hose you just as much (especially in original CITOW, when nurgle pretty much automatically loses if he doesn't get his crucial card at key times)
it just isn't as clear that you're being hosed, so it creates the illusion of fairness
i think you're not giving enough credit to the game to suggest that there would be a clear optimal draft after three plays, and the randomization of the starting tokens is a huge factor - slaanesh and tzeentch always have to play to the tokens on the board, and everyone has to adapt to their decisions accordingly
there would be many strong openings, and you'd have to tailor them to the choices your opponents make or that you predict they will make
the fact that the main thing that informs your first turn (or any turn) is the cards in your hand means you should have more control over that, imo. the cards are a large portion of the game's meat.
I wanted to do that but I just can't justify spending that much on this one game when I don't even know if it will catch with my fiancee. I was already on the fence about getting the war extended edition but the value add there for $20 was pretty crazy so I ended up grabbing it.
Character choices are
1 x Eliza
Comics, Games, Booze
"Out of Stock"
That went fast.
The site said 20+ when I first saw it today. I had pre-ordered all the way back in Feb.
Comics, Games, Booze
Now I just need to pick a date to invite a bunch of friends over to play all the games. RoboRally will probably feature heavily into the gaming, too.
I have some boardgames that have yet to see the light of day though. I've owned Space Alert for nigh on 3 years now and have yet to actually play it. I read the rules, but it's been long enough that I'm too fuzzy to be able to explain it to people.
Steam: TheArcadeBear