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Une grande aventure, eh?: Moving to Montreal Eventually
Incenjucar
VChatterSeattle, WARegistered User regular
VChatterSeattle, WARegistered User regular
So, short version:
I'm considering moving to Montreal without a lot of good idea boxes checked off because sometimes you have to do something a little crazy when you are mortal, and I would dearly appreciate any insight or advice I can get to make it less foolish.
Detailed version:
The idea of moving to Montreal has been growing increasingly interesting to me lately. Montreal specifically calls to me because I have some family connections there, and I really enjoy the notion of Frenchness. The industry I'm in, game/console testing in Seattle, is going to kind of be a nightmare for someone of my skill level over the next five years. I'm also in dire need of something to really shake up my life, and this rocks three birds with one stone. I have a few aces up my sleeve on this, but a lot of challenges to overcome, and I'd like to make sure my grande adventure up North doesn't go South.
First, the things going for me:
* Though I was born and raised in the USA, I'm a dual US/Canadian citizen, and am already working on getting my proof of citizenship. Yay arbitrary accident of birth!
* My Canadian ancestry is from Montreal, and I have some rather well-off family there, though I haven't met them yet. Also my relatives have a brewery.
* Living expenses shouldn't be an issue for about a year.
* My job experience includes the games industry and office work, and Montreal is full of game studios and I assume also offices.
However, there are many challenges I've identified:
* Ignorance. I really don't know that much about Canada. I've been to Vancouver twice, for weekend events. I have only a vague notion of the history of the region, though I've tried to read up a bit. I'm not the MOST ignorant person about Canada, but I'm kind of going in blind and if I'm honest with myself mostly banking on it being not much different from moving to Washington from California.
* Je ne parle pas francais. I don't speak French. I'm working on this, but picking up new languages isn't my strongest talent, and leads to the next issue...
* My college degree is in English, and my field for the last four years has been game/console testing. My strongest talents are in communication. This is going to make things rough, to say the least.
* I'm still figuring out the moving process and options. It will probably be much easier since I'm a citizen, but moving back and forth between nations is probably going to involve a lot of paperwork and weird tax and bank things with terrible websites that only work on IE and Netscape browsers.
My current plans:
* Job hunt because duh. Working on a major revamp of my resume and figuring out where you find stuff online for Montreal.
* Actually visit Montreal because major duh. I may be escorting my Quebecois grandmother there for her birthday, which would be the best possible way, but otherwise it's in my plans.
* Continue learning French. I will probably land in Montreal sucking at French but I can at least get a few key things down first.
* Figure out neighborhoods to live in, particularly since the commutes can be rough.
* Figure out the moving process particularly in regards to the governments and my bank account.
* Consolidate my possessions and figure out how to get the ones I can't part with there.
So with all that said, if there is anything I have missed or might miss, or any particular things I need to look into, I would appreciate any advice on this that comes to mind. The whole thing makes me supremely nervous, but since the idea not doing something crazy makes me MORE nervous, je vais aventure! Thanks for anything you can suggest.
I'm considering moving to Montreal without a lot of good idea boxes checked off because sometimes you have to do something a little crazy when you are mortal, and I would dearly appreciate any insight or advice I can get to make it less foolish.
Detailed version:
The idea of moving to Montreal has been growing increasingly interesting to me lately. Montreal specifically calls to me because I have some family connections there, and I really enjoy the notion of Frenchness. The industry I'm in, game/console testing in Seattle, is going to kind of be a nightmare for someone of my skill level over the next five years. I'm also in dire need of something to really shake up my life, and this rocks three birds with one stone. I have a few aces up my sleeve on this, but a lot of challenges to overcome, and I'd like to make sure my grande adventure up North doesn't go South.
First, the things going for me:
* Though I was born and raised in the USA, I'm a dual US/Canadian citizen, and am already working on getting my proof of citizenship. Yay arbitrary accident of birth!
* My Canadian ancestry is from Montreal, and I have some rather well-off family there, though I haven't met them yet. Also my relatives have a brewery.
* Living expenses shouldn't be an issue for about a year.
* My job experience includes the games industry and office work, and Montreal is full of game studios and I assume also offices.
However, there are many challenges I've identified:
* Ignorance. I really don't know that much about Canada. I've been to Vancouver twice, for weekend events. I have only a vague notion of the history of the region, though I've tried to read up a bit. I'm not the MOST ignorant person about Canada, but I'm kind of going in blind and if I'm honest with myself mostly banking on it being not much different from moving to Washington from California.
* Je ne parle pas francais. I don't speak French. I'm working on this, but picking up new languages isn't my strongest talent, and leads to the next issue...
* My college degree is in English, and my field for the last four years has been game/console testing. My strongest talents are in communication. This is going to make things rough, to say the least.
* I'm still figuring out the moving process and options. It will probably be much easier since I'm a citizen, but moving back and forth between nations is probably going to involve a lot of paperwork and weird tax and bank things with terrible websites that only work on IE and Netscape browsers.
My current plans:
* Job hunt because duh. Working on a major revamp of my resume and figuring out where you find stuff online for Montreal.
* Actually visit Montreal because major duh. I may be escorting my Quebecois grandmother there for her birthday, which would be the best possible way, but otherwise it's in my plans.
* Continue learning French. I will probably land in Montreal sucking at French but I can at least get a few key things down first.
* Figure out neighborhoods to live in, particularly since the commutes can be rough.
* Figure out the moving process particularly in regards to the governments and my bank account.
* Consolidate my possessions and figure out how to get the ones I can't part with there.
So with all that said, if there is anything I have missed or might miss, or any particular things I need to look into, I would appreciate any advice on this that comes to mind. The whole thing makes me supremely nervous, but since the idea not doing something crazy makes me MORE nervous, je vais aventure! Thanks for anything you can suggest.
Incenjucar on
+1
Posts
When moving from State to State, I've found that many companies send you "congrats on the move" coupons which can be quite a bit better than your run of the mill kind, keep that mind if you're about to make a big purchase.
I'm not from Montreal proper, but i live about an hour north of it.
First off, not knowing French isn't the worst thing. Montreal is an incredibly bilingual city, meaning some people can live their entire life without needing to learn French. Of course, that doesn't excuse you, but it means that as long as you have trouble speaking french, you'll be able to get people to understand you in English and as long as you actually try speaking French, people will be willing to help.
Secondly, there's this site that could be of use: http://gamejobhunter.com/blog/local-video-game-companies-montreal/
Dunno how useful it will be to you, but it lists studios and links to a list of game job listings in Montreal. Maybe you'll find a fit! i sure hope you will!
Thirdly, i can probably help you practice your french in the meantime, if you want. As a native Quebecois, i have the proper accent for you to mimic! Shoot me a PM if interested, we can use, like, Steam or Google Hangouts. (I don't particularly like Skype, hope you don't mind.)
Montreal is a pretty cool city IMO. Vibrant, interesting, unique... Great place to live, from the perspective of someone who does not yet live there, but is aiming to not too far in the future.
Check out my site, the Bismuth Heart | My Twitter
- You can get by in Montreal with only english, but people will appreciate that you're also making the effort to learn french.
- I work in a French game company. All company communication/documentation is bilingual, but the work and documentation on projects is all done in english. Meetings will often be held in English as it's not rare to have anglo-only employees on your team.
- For affordable rent in decent neighborhoods I would suggest somewhere like Plateau or Rosemont. If you search a bit in those areas you can find a decent apartment. Plateau also happens to have a great nightlife. It's close enough from everything (downtown, old port, a bunch of parks) that from spring to fall you can bike to most places you would want to go within 30 minutes and in winter you can get to those same places pretty fast with the subway/bus. (There's pretty much 0 reasons to ever go to the eastern or western edges of the island unless you live or work there)
I'm curious what brewery these relatives have. We have a couple of em in MTL that make some pretty great beers that I enjoy a lot!
Battle.net: Fireflash#1425
Steam Friend code: 45386507
You can totally get by with just English, even when you're a dumb college kid who doesn't bother putting any effort into learning French on account of you are too dumb. But go ahead and try to pick up French so people will think you're less of an asshole.
The Plateau is really nice, I spent most of college in a kind of shitty but very cheap apartment there. It does have a great nightlife! It's just real fucking pleasant. Like if you want to go clubbing on St. Laurent you can, and if you want to just drink quietly until 4 am, you can. There's a really nice feeling of 24/7 occupancy without it being oppressively loud and crowded. You also can definitely walk/bike to any part of town that's any fun and the subway/bus system is perfectly decent. Though the subway is annoyingly small.
I did once walk to Laval by accident. You don't need to see the edge of the island.
Montreal is a place that I'd love to return to at some point to live, because it's just a nice place to be.
I unfortunately don't know much about permanent immigration, though. I do believe that if you're a dual citizen it should not be as strict or difficult. You shouldn't need to prove you're the single best option for a job or anything.
Oh man though you totally should do this. When you get closer to actually making the move I can tell you all the places you need to go for food!
I have, barring unusual circumstances (like, say, stupid amounts of money), made this an absolute goal, rather than a maybe. I'm aiming for much earlier, but I have set an absolute hard date of mid-March 2016, and if I can manage it I'd feel like a champion if I can get there in March 2015 instead.
I definitely appreciate the info on language, that's probably the most difficult aspect of all of this idea, and the thing that makes me the most nervous. All the rest can be covered with money and favors at the end of the day. I may just take you up on that offer, 21st, and I am very grateful for it. Figuring out how to move my stuff (and what to get rid of... QQ) will be a bit difficult, but it's just stuff at the end of the day.
As for the brewery, I kind of don't want to explicitly mention it in online case they're private about it, but there's a hint to who they are in one of the posts above.
http://www.immigration-quebec.gouv.qc.ca/en/french-language/learning-quebec/
The availability may vary depending on your immigration status.
De-lurking (which I almost never do!) as it just so happens that I've recently done exactly what you plan to do. Except I moved from Vancouver Canada, not Seattle. But hey! Westcoast!
To talk to your primary concern about the language: I had some French classes back in High school, but have forgotten most of it. French isn't a big thing over in Vancouver, so I'm predominantly an English speaker by far. I'm also employed in the games industry, so I can speak to that a bit too. Like FireFlash my studio is mainly French. Company communications are bilingual and in meetings or in conversations with me people will switch to English. Sometimes in the heat of a debate they'll switch to French, but will quickly apologize when I'm giving them my best "deer in headlights" look. There's a bunch of other mainly English speakers here too, which helps. Some Americans, people from other parts of Canada, and a bunch of folks from far away places like Romania. One of the neat things I've noticed is that you'll frequently see two people carrying on a deep conversation, one speaking only English, the other speaking only French. It's neat!
Now some neighborhoods are definitely more French speaking than others. So if you're worried about that, it helps to do a bit of research before hand. But a good rule of thumb is the farther from Downtown you get, the more French it gets. Especially once you get off the island. There are some exceptions, but that's where the research comes in. Or heck! Dive right in and pick a really French neighborhood to get immersed!
In all honesty, the people here have been amazingly friendly. And even with no french, but a healthy dose of curiosity, I think you'll be surprised at how much you'll pick up. Certainly enough to get around the city. And while that's enough to get you by, learning french will make your stay in Montreal much more rich. That's my plan. I'm currently in the process of hunting for some classes that'll work with my work schedule. (Woo! Unpredictable times!) There also seems to be a bunch of meetup type things specifically designed around getting folks together who want to practice their french/english. Helpful for getting over that "actually talking French to a living person who might hate me for butchering their language" thing. Though that might just be me!
Hope that helps some!
Plateau is definitively a good part of town to be in but keep in mind than due to it's status as the cool place to be, rent is higher in that sector than most.
Trafic in Montréal is a frikkin hell. I'd strongly recommend being within walking distance of a metro station.
1- You will need french if you ever intend to work off the island. This is a non-stater.
2- Taxes are the highest in North America
3- Traffic is atrocious and drivers are extremely aggressive.
4- You will get fat from all the amazing food.
Maybe off the east of the island, north and south possibly.
But not off the west island, that's a really solidly english primary area around Vaudreuil/Ste Lazare/Hudson
When I get there, I plan to spend as much time around French speakers as possible. There are various resources in Seattle for it, but my schedule makes it difficult to access them without dropping every aspect of my social life. I'm going to try and find more time for it, but honestly it would be easier to just have no choice.
I'm totally fine about the taxes, given the benefits of living in Canada, and my own very good spending habits.
Do I actually have to pay anything back to the US, though, or is it just kind of a "I made zero dollars in the US this year" kind of formality?
Paperwork I don't mind, getting double-dipped on taxes will hurt a bit.
Its kind of a big controversy here in the past few years.
http://www.irs.gov/publications/p54/index.html
There are ways on making appropriate deductions for another country's taxes on your U.S. tax returns. But I would do your research and, if necessary, schedule a sit down with an accountant/tax attorney to go over what you need to do in the future.
I sent my citizenship info in a few weeks back. Based on the 5 month average wait time, I should be getting my proof of citizenship around September.
Also, my contract for my local job is up now, so as soon as I figure out when the unemployment seminar is, I can plan my visit to Montreal to make sure I know what I'm getting into.
Also also, while I have only learned a small bit of French (and listened to lots of French music), I'm making some progress, and I've been informed of many new options to take advantage of, so I'm covered for ways to learn, and now also time to learn.
Also also also, my agency actually has offices in Montreal, so I may be able to get work there more easily than expected!
With regards to the taxation matter, be aware that the Canada Revenue Agency (the equivalent of the IRS) is required as part of a US-Canada agreement to send information about your earnings to the IRS each year. From how the media has portrayed this in Canada, it means that you are likely to have to pay taxes on Canadian-earned income in both Canada and the US. It is part of a larger attempt by the US government to clamp down on US citizens using foreign financial institutions to avoid paying taxes.
If reports are to be believed, many dual citizens are choosing to renounce their US citizenship in favour of Canadian citizenship to avoid this.
http://business.financialpost.com/news/fp-street/u-s-tax-crackdown-driving-more-expats-living-in-canada-to-renounce-citizenship
(On a side note, "eh" isn't a real Canadian word - it's punctuation. That's why most of us don't even realize when we say it.)
What the articles are referring to is the US passed some laws recently which were supposedly aimed at stopping super-rich people from hiding their money in overseas accounts, but what they actually did was just require everyone to report any account they might have signing authority on that has a relatively small amount of money (especially when taking into account savings people may be making for housing purchases, retirement, etc), and force all the banks to either report information about accounts "owned" by Americans directly to the US government -- or they could just instead stop allowing Americans to have accounts. Which leads to stupid situations like: I have signing authority on an account that has some of my Canadian husband's retirement savings. None of it is mine, it's income earned from Canadian work by a Canadian citizen that had Canadian taxes paid on it, but the US still wants to have a record of the account because. Naturally there are a lot of people not pleased with it, particularly if they don't really consider themselves American in the first place. But this doesn't have too much bearing on someone moving up here on their own other than just knowing there's an extra form to fill out (and it's mentioned in that P54 document).
I did notice a spot on my US tax forms for overseas taxation and such, so yeah, I'll just be doing two sets of taxes each year, but with one offsetting the other a bit. I figure it's the cost of flexibility. It probably helps that I'm currently a resident of Washington, which has no state taxes, so I'll only ever have to deal with federal taxes while I wait for my legal residency to shift.
I have to say it's fun learning the unique language traits of Quebec. I finally understand exactly why my grandparents insisted on "supper" instead of "dinner."
I also will not actually be picking up "eh" or the like. I punctuate with my eyebrows. :winky:
La just means "the" in French.
Granted it's the feminine version because French wants to apply gender to everything so la, le and les all mean "the".....
Other fun things, is how in Quebec, especially among the younger generations, people will just take an English word, put a le or a la in front of it, and pronounce it with a French accent. That also throws a person with a smattering of french language skills for a spin.
On the plus side, I've been told be more than one person that they find Anglos trying to speak French or speaking French with an English accent, very sexy.
Seriously though, Quebec is a real treasure and there's lots of great things happening there. It has some of the oldest European cities in North America and feels old and even European in a way that most other places in North America never do.
You're well prepared then.
Note that as much as I will complain about Quebecois, it really is a unique space, and Montreal/Quebec City feel like a different dimension from North America.
Also - Their delicious steak and beer. Mmmmmmmm.
La also means 'there', which makes a bit more sense when you can translate something like 'comment ca va la' to be 'how's it going there' which reflects the frenglish found in most places of quebec.
I know that Canada and particularly Montreal has a somewhat uncomfortable history with their Native population, much like in the US. While I'm not culturally Native beyond a few ideas passed down in my family, I have some pride in the two tribes I distantly hail from. I assume that folks in Montreal are cosmopolitan enough to not have an issue with that? It may come up if I somehow get enough sun to tan, in which case I darken so much it can be hard to recognize me...
You'll probably be an American first, then an anglophone, and then anything else. I wouldn't worry about your background. The animosity between Canada and the native population is fairly one-sided and is pretty much unseen day to day for anyone who isn't Indian Status (yes... that is the legal term). Unless you're out in Manitoba, you're probably not going to have anyone take offense, nor do I expect that you'll be walking around saying stuff like "I'm native, got a problem with it?".
As an aside, if you've studied Canadian history, you're probably more familiar with it than many Canadians. We do a pretty poor job of teaching it in the schools and most people are more familiar with American history than Canadian thanks to television.
On another note, the food is great and there ARE some nice people. I lived in Cote De Neige and it was alright, it was a very VERY multicultural area which made me feel a little less out of place since there were always 20 different languages being spoken at any given time in the area. In my experience working in one of the large downtown towers in the business sector, all communication was purely in french despite most of the company being english speakers, as apparently it's the law there for all signage and communications to be in french only these days (Note my earlier statement about weird anti english laws.). The pay was good, and the rent and cost of food/living was the cheapest i've seen in the country, and i've lived all over Canada in multiple provinces, so that was nice. The weather is BRUTAL (-40 or less at times, for weeks/months straight.) but survivable due to a well designed metro and underground city sector. Just be prepared is the best I can say.
I've spent most of my life off the island proper, but have been working downtown for over a decade. (Lived on the island for 2 years.)
Not being fluent in French off the island was pretty bad, but downtown, most of the time it's a non issue. If you're willing to try, most people will bear with your attempts at French* (asking or letting you repeat once or twice) before just asking you to speak to them in English. (If they understand English, not everyone does.)
The employees of most stores/restaurants will greet you with a "Bonjour. Hi." which is your invitation to speak your language of choice.
Don't be afraid to toss an English word into your French sentence, or a French word into your English sentence if you can't find the correct one, context usually helps a lot more than stumbling and trying to find the word. (But, not always.)
I work in one of the downtown office towers, and people speak whatever they feel like speaking, it's all about whatever the corporate culture in your place of work embraces, and if you've got people who hate the word Pasta working there. (Government and Civil work requires French, Private sector work hasn't been heavily regulated, as technically it would be a violation of civil liberties.)
If you don't drive, get a bus/metro pass, and find all the bus routes that will get you to/from work, be prepared to take an alternate route if your bus isn't showing up or if the metro line is down for whatever reason.
Heck, get one anyhow, parking will cost more than a monthly pass.
*If you're speaking french, and get told "Je ne comprends pas l'anglais" (I don't understand english) it's usually time to give up, they either can't or won't hear anything beyond your accent.
I got rid of my car years ago, have no plans on getting a new one just to feed to Montreal's potholes, so I'm happy to stick to the bus system. Might rent a car during the summers to keep in practice, but as is I drive like twice a year anyway.
I'm actually kind of cool with the pro-French thing. I'm going up there BECAUSE of the French, not despite it. I expect a little flak from the natives, but I'm not an easy person to pick on unless there are literally roving gangs of street toughs beating up mudbloods. It's certainly possible that my early language development will be aimed at explaining how stupid it is to confuse an illiterate Frenchman with an Englishman.
The weather will be an adventure, I'm sure, but I've made topless snow angels so I should survive.
I really do appreciate the help, and the warnings. I know it's not going to be anywhere as easy as when I landed in Seattle, but that's actually the point. I need a few hard knocks instead of mere ennui.
Battle.net: Fireflash#1425
Steam Friend code: 45386507
C'est fantastique! Owning a car is terrible, but having access to a car is civilization. Merci!
--
Oh god I just heard someone do the "Le le le" thing in the manner of "Loo" on the radio, it's adorable!
I... don't want to be that adorable. But that's still better than "eh."
They still throw in the eh in Quebec.